Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
Randy, You need to tell this guy you are sorry. But, Your title is Dr. not God. You may have the most important and informative web site on the internet But, You cannot turn Earth rocks into Meteorites. I don't think he gets that. And please don't retire just yet. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Randy Korotev koro...@wustl.edu wrote: At 16:59 08-01-10 Friday, you wrote: Randy, that's what I love about this hobby, it's an ongoing learning process. Thanks for the links to the lunar meteowrongs, there great. Cheers, Jim K Dear Jim: Don't pay any attention to anything I say. I'm a narrow-minded, egocentric fraud. A few days ago a fellow sent me 32 rocks, all of which he thought were meteorites. I told him I'd only look at the 3 he thought most likely to be meteorites. He named three. I looked at them. None had fusion crusts or regmaglypts. I showed them to a a guy here who knows more about terrestrial rocks than I do. All three were volcaniclastic rocks, in our opinion. Maybe one was a terrestrial breccia. I told the guy what I thought. Here's how he responded. = I'm thinking, that asking a geologist to do the job of a lunar geochemist, is like sending a carpenter to erect the next World Trade Center. It is obvious, that you are unable to wrap your mind around the idea that a discovery such as this could be possible, or even feasible. It is also apparent, that the potential of this discovery is not important to you, or to the science. Your attempts to deny, denounce and destroy this effort has reached, the end of the trail! Having said as much, I will be dismissing you from this case. I will have the lab results sent to several other, more open-minded intelligent lunar geochemists, whom I am in contact with, and who currently think that such a discovery is not only possible and feasible, but probable overdue. This project is deserving of young, alert, provocative, curious and inquisitive minds, who are willing to think outside the box. (There are meteorites that are Red!!..check out the latest chat on your local Meteorite chat room; courtesy of Mike Farmer). I've never known a scientist wanting, offering or settling for a compromise on a potential discovery. How egocentric how terribly absurd! I do thank you for your efforts, but you are not the man of science I was expecting, or hoping, you would be. It is obvious, too, that you introduced the specimens to your terrestrial geologist (if there was one you associate with!) with prejudice. This is not the type of scientific inquiry deserving of a comment or compliment. Your arguments against these specimens being meteoritic, should be directed against your own publications and those of Richard Norton, NASA, JPL, Johnson Space Center, and every single collection around the globe. I must suspect, that you are in the game to protect your own precious fusion-crusted relics and the value of your fraternity's collections. Your professional personal integrity are certainly in question, here! I have given you this potential discovery on a silver platter, but you have chosen to spit in my eye, as if I was some kind of lowly peon. Never, have I been treated with such arrogant malice! I wish you well on your retirement may it be soon! A fella' can look at just so many rocks, that he becomes one, himself! = I sure hope this guy finds someone else on The List to insult! I need to retire, Randy Korotev __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
At 16:59 08-01-10 Friday, you wrote: Randy, that's what I love about this hobby, it's an ongoing learning process. Thanks for the links to the lunar meteowrongs, there great. Cheers, Jim K Dear Jim: Don't pay any attention to anything I say. I'm a narrow-minded, egocentric fraud. A few days ago a fellow sent me 32 rocks, all of which he thought were meteorites. I told him I'd only look at the 3 he thought most likely to be meteorites. He named three. I looked at them. None had fusion crusts or regmaglypts. I showed them to a a guy here who knows more about terrestrial rocks than I do. All three were volcaniclastic rocks, in our opinion. Maybe one was a terrestrial breccia. I told the guy what I thought. Here's how he responded. = I'm thinking, that asking a geologist to do the job of a lunar geochemist, is like sending a carpenter to erect the next World Trade Center. It is obvious, that you are unable to wrap your mind around the idea that a discovery such as this could be possible, or even feasible. It is also apparent, that the potential of this discovery is not important to you, or to the science. Your attempts to deny, denounce and destroy this effort has reached, the end of the trail! Having said as much, I will be dismissing you from this case. I will have the lab results sent to several other, more open-minded intelligent lunar geochemists, whom I am in contact with, and who currently think that such a discovery is not only possible and feasible, but probable overdue. This project is deserving of young, alert, provocative, curious and inquisitive minds, who are willing to think outside the box. (There are meteorites that are Red!!..check out the latest chat on your local Meteorite chat room; courtesy of Mike Farmer). I've never known a scientist wanting, offering or settling for a compromise on a potential discovery. How egocentric how terribly absurd! I do thank you for your efforts, but you are not the man of science I was expecting, or hoping, you would be. It is obvious, too, that you introduced the specimens to your terrestrial geologist (if there was one you associate with!) with prejudice. This is not the type of scientific inquiry deserving of a comment or compliment. Your arguments against these specimens being meteoritic, should be directed against your own publications and those of Richard Norton, NASA, JPL, Johnson Space Center, and every single collection around the globe. I must suspect, that you are in the game to protect your own precious fusion-crusted relics and the value of your fraternity's collections. Your professional personal integrity are certainly in question, here! I have given you this potential discovery on a silver platter, but you have chosen to spit in my eye, as if I was some kind of lowly peon. Never, have I been treated with such arrogant malice! I wish you well on your retirement may it be soon! A fella' can look at just so many rocks, that he becomes one, himself! = I sure hope this guy finds someone else on The List to insult! I need to retire, Randy Korotev __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
No good deed goes unpunished. -- Richard Kowalski __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
Thanks, but Jim K. of Skyrock deserves all the credit (Thanks Jim!). I got the link from there. If you visit, see the Astronomy section. Carl Carl, that's an excellent video. Absolutely phenomenal. I would recommend it to everyone. Thanks for posting it. Linton _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
Some time ago I found a stone that appeared to be a lunar. But my excitment was short lived after doing a density test with a result of 2.25. Anyone ever hear of a lunar having such a low density? Photo of the imposter below. http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn181/Jimski47/P7060034.jpg Cheers, Jim K __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
List: I have a question regarding Lunar meteorites. In many of the pics on various websites I have noticed a reddish/brown color in the meteorites. I figured that most would be more grayish and white. Is the reddish color from terrestrial means? Does it oxidize after landing? Or is this reddish color not related to oxidation at all and is the actual color it would be on the moon? I would think that there would be no oxidation on the moon or in space, due to the lack of oxygen. Shisr161 is an example. http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Shisr161-2.884g.jpg I can't get over how 'terrestrial' lunars look. Who knows... maybe I've stepped on one without knowing it. Greg S. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
Dear Greg, and All, The reddish, brown and pinkish colors of these lunars (particullary from Oman) are from hematite staining, i.e., from terrestrial weathering. Pristine lunars look more like this: http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/NWA2200-1.388g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Dho910-1.912g.JPG It seems that especially the lunars with a very long terrestrial residence time, such as Dhofar 025 which fell more than 400,000 years ago, display the effects of heavy hematite staining: http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Dho025-0.352g.JPG Hope this helps, Norbert Classen www.meteoris.de -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- List: I have a question regarding Lunar meteorites. In many of the pics on various websites I have noticed a reddish/brown color in the meteorites. I figured that most would be more grayish and white. Is the reddish color from terrestrial means? Does it oxidize after landing? Or is this reddish color not related to oxidation at all and is the actual color it would be on the moon? I would think that there would be no oxidation on the moon or in space, due to the lack of oxygen. Shisr161 is an example. http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Shisr161-2.884g.jpg I can't get over how 'terrestrial' lunars look. Who knows... maybe I've stepped on one without knowing it. Greg S. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
Thanks Everyone: I really appreciate the detailed responses. That's what I suspected. Perhaps the soils in Oman contain more iron based sediment, and the strewn fields there are older. I always assumed that the iron within meteorites caused the oxidation, but now it's clear that once any rock (meteorite) falls to earth, it can be altered in the same ways (weathering, erosion, oxidation and surface staining) terrestrial rocks are subjected too. Thus, makes it even more difficult to find a lunar. Best, Greg S. From: riffr...@timewarp.de To: stanleygr...@hotmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:12:41 +0100 Dear Greg, and All, The reddish, brown and pinkish colors of these lunars (particullary from Oman) are from hematite staining, i.e., from terrestrial weathering. Pristine lunars look more like this: http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/NWA2200-1.388g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Dho910-1.912g.JPG It seems that especially the lunars with a very long terrestrial residence time, such as Dhofar 025 which fell more than 400,000 years ago, display the effects of heavy hematite staining: http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Dho025-0.352g.JPG Hope this helps, Norbert Classen www.meteoris.de -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- List: I have a question regarding Lunar meteorites. In many of the pics on various websites I have noticed a reddish/brown color in the meteorites. I figured that most would be more grayish and white. Is the reddish color from terrestrial means? Does it oxidize after landing? Or is this reddish color not related to oxidation at all and is the actual color it would be on the moon? I would think that there would be no oxidation on the moon or in space, due to the lack of oxygen. Shisr161 is an example. http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Shisr161-2.884g.jpg I can't get over how 'terrestrial' lunars look. Who knows... maybe I've stepped on one without knowing it. Greg S. _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
Hi Greg and All, Here's an interesting video from the Kaguya lunar spacecraft. The red soil on the moon and Norbert's explanation is probably related somewhat although produced separately. Around the 21:20 mark, check out the red soil on the moon. Nice footage of the moon and of the astronauts frolicking about. Jim K.brought this video to the attention of SkyrockCafe: http://www.slashcontrol.com/free-tv-shows/expedition-week/3669310949-direct-from-the-moon Also, at around the 41:00 mark, the astronauts are kicking around a very large rock! Love this video. Carl Greg wrote: I really appreciate the detailed responses. That's what I suspected. Perhaps the soils in Oman contain more iron based sediment, and the strewn fields there are older. I always assumed that the iron within meteorites caused the oxidation, but now it's clear that once any rock (meteorite) falls to earth,... _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
Thanks for the great video Carl. Jerry -- From: Carl 's carloselgua...@hotmail.com Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:30 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars Hi Greg and All, Here's an interesting video from the Kaguya lunar spacecraft. The red soil on the moon and Norbert's explanation is probably related somewhat although produced separately. Around the 21:20 mark, check out the red soil on the moon. Nice footage of the moon and of the astronauts frolicking about. Jim K.brought this video to the attention of SkyrockCafe: http://www.slashcontrol.com/free-tv-shows/expedition-week/3669310949-direct-from-the-moon Also, at around the 41:00 mark, the astronauts are kicking around a very large rock! Love this video. Carl Greg wrote: I really appreciate the detailed responses. That's what I suspected. Perhaps the soils in Oman contain more iron based sediment, and the strewn fields there are older. I always assumed that the iron within meteorites caused the oxidation, but now it's clear that once any rock (meteorite) falls to earth,... _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
- Original Message - From: Carl 's carloselgua...@hotmail.com To: Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars Hi Greg and All, Here's an interesting video from the Kaguya lunar spacecraft. The red soil on the moon and Norbert's explanation is probably related somewhat although produced separately. Around the 21:20 mark, check out the red soil on the moon. Nice footage of the moon and of the astronauts frolicking about. Jim K.brought this video to the attention of SkyrockCafe: http://www.slashcontrol.com/free-tv-shows/expedition-week/3669310949-direct-from-the-moon Also, at around the 41:00 mark, the astronauts are kicking around a very large rock! Love this video. Carl Greg wrote: I really appreciate the detailed responses. That's what I suspected. Perhaps the soils in Oman contain more iron based sediment, and the strewn fields there are older. I always assumed that the iron within meteorites caused the oxidation, but now it's clear that once any rock (meteorite) falls to earth,... _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
(Oops...sorry for the previous misfire, folks.) Carl, that's an excellent video. Absolutely phenomenal. I would recommend it to everyone. Thanks for posting it. Linton - Original Message - From: Carl 's carloselgua...@hotmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars Hi Greg and All, Here's an interesting video from the Kaguya lunar spacecraft. The red soil on the moon and Norbert's explanation is probably related somewhat although produced separately. Around the 21:20 mark, check out the red soil on the moon. Nice footage of the moon and of the astronauts frolicking about. Jim K.brought this video to the attention of SkyrockCafe: http://www.slashcontrol.com/free-tv-shows/expedition-week/3669310949-direct-from-the-moon Also, at around the 41:00 mark, the astronauts are kicking around a very large rock! Love this video. Carl Greg wrote: I really appreciate the detailed responses. That's what I suspected. Perhaps the soils in Oman contain more iron based sediment, and the strewn fields there are older. I always assumed that the iron within meteorites caused the oxidation, but now it's clear that once any rock (meteorite) falls to earth,... _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
