Re: [meteorite-list] Seeking Knowledge and Dealing with Meteorwrong Owners was Classification Q
Hello Gary, Pete, List I've held back discussing this again as I am not the one on the vision quest. However, you've raised the issue of getting this classified aka lab tested--at a meteorite lab amongst other things. You think he can sell this for a sum and rebuild his failing ministry. He'll make more in bake sales. For Pete's sake...and mine , please tell us why you remain convinced that this is valuable specimen beyond a that of landscaping boulder? Interesting doesn't equate to rare and valuable. If it were, my collection would be worth millions. I also want to say I loathe going out on a limb especially working with photographs--there will always be someone near by with pruning shears and they have a long memory for when you made a bad call. Old Man's ambush of the whipper snapper: There are 3 straight up reasons not requiring lab work that show this can't be a Martian meteorite-- name one? How to Beef Up your Knowledge Base: In a nut shell, a way to improve your identification knowledge is to get out and see all the rocks you can, So when one does come up that you haven't seen before, you'll have a better basis to judge if it is rare or if it is just interesting. Additionally: read, read, read. Google is your friend. Get Norton's Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites and McSween's Meteorites and their Parent Bodies Read them three times. Study your own collection, practice describing each specimen to your self. Advice from the Good Ole Boy Girl Network: As far as seeking classification(?) Trust me on this , your credibility is on the line every time you refer a specimen for meteorite identification and that credibility slips down the toilet when you send in an obvious meteorwrong. The way I see it is, you owe a duty to the astro-geologist you contact to not waste his/her time. If you do a field accessment and are unable to eliminate/ exclude an object as a meteorite, only then do you start considering recommending it to a meteorite lab and that only after you've floated it to your other colleagues for their input. If you hold yourself out as a meteorite expert then you better be able to back it up with several the reasons it is not likely a meteorite or these meteorwrong owners will eat your lunch and send you packing with your tail twixed your legs--Because you did not confirm their rock as a meteorite--They obviously know more than you do!. I re-learn the following lesson each day: You should not interfere with another's right to remain ignorant. No matter how much wishing, hoping, or praying it isn't going to turn this water into wine. No matter how sincere you believe this pastor is--his hidden agenda is to keep this dream alive until he can explain it away and face the reality that this was not a God send. I assure you it has nothing to do with mineralogy. Some churches die on the vine for good reasons! Check out Luke's Gospel?--it has been a while since I did any church preaching. I feel for you but your Dutch Uncle would likely advise you to get away from this situation as soon as you can extract yourself honoring whatever commitments you've made. Read what Randy Korotev has to say after dealing with 1000's of meteorwrong owners http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/what_to_do.html The Quest New Hampshire isn't a large state(nor is Vermont ) and seems you would have scoured the state by now if not in person via google. Google the Chlorite mineral group (esp. Clinochlore) and the rock types greenschist , blueschist, and syenite. (See the links way below) I only have state for location, cursory description and photos(needing a reference object--coin, ruler, etc.) which you've taken down to go on. The new photo makes me go back to Actenolite-Tremolite as I can see large crystals and to me this looks like other occurrences I have seen. The flaky granules point to Clinochlore or any of several Chlorite group minerals. I think this rock is not homogeneous but a mix of parents because Chlorite and Tremolite aren't usually associated but they are found in adjacent deposits. If just going by casual appearances I would note that a cut face of Bilinga also shows some crystal faces as so do some Eucrites. You must have wondered where the depressions in the Vision rock came from if not regmaglypts. Well remember the furry over human foot prints found inside dinosaur foot prints in soft shale in Texas by some Creation(sic) Scientists? When conventional scientist went to the location they found the heals of the dinosaur tracks had been doctored to human shape during clean out. The Creationists were cleaning out the tracks until their foot would fit in the depression. Well... you see where this is going. Options: 1. Port this over to the Rockhound's List at Drizzle.com. There are world class mineralogist there and this is their forte. Avoid telling them what you think it is and ask them what it might be based on location and physical appearance. To
Re: [meteorite-list] Seeking Knowledge and Dealing with Meteorwrong Owners was Classification Q
Elton and all, Well said. I too have been holding back on this subject, but I agree strongly that to send a certain meteor-wrong in to be examined by our small and over-taxed group of classifiers is unconscionable. The vision rock is a nice rock and has value as a landscape boulder. Most of the typical cost for such boulders is associated with their transport costs. I agree with Elton: why in the world would anyone assume that this rock has any value beyond that? Gary, please rethink the idea of wasting the time of any reputable lab. You are being a nice guy and are very charitable towards a scam artist. They all seem sincere. That's how their business works. It is wrong to represent such a rock as a meteorite, let alone a Martian. These guys hurt the credibility of the entire meteorite community. Deep enough, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- E J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gary, Pete, List I've held back discussing this again as I am not the one on the vision quest. However, you've raised the issue of getting this classified aka lab tested--at a meteorite lab amongst other things. You think he can sell this for a sum and rebuild his failing ministry. He'll make more in bake sales. For Pete's sake...and mine , please tell us why you remain convinced that this is valuable specimen beyond a that of landscaping boulder? Interesting doesn't equate to rare and valuable. If it were, my collection would be worth millions. I also want to say I loathe going out on a limb especially working with photographs--there will always be someone near by with pruning shears and they have a long memory for when you made a bad call. Old Man's ambush of the whipper snapper: There are 3 straight up reasons not requiring lab work that show this can't be a Martian meteorite-- name one? How to Beef Up your Knowledge Base: In a nut shell, a way to improve your identification knowledge is to get out and see all the rocks you can, So when one does come up that you haven't seen before, you'll have a better basis to judge if it is rare or if it is just interesting. Additionally: read, read, read. Google is your friend. Get Norton's Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites and McSween's Meteorites and their Parent Bodies Read them three times. Study your own collection, practice describing each specimen to your self. Advice from the Good Ole Boy Girl Network: As far as seeking classification(?) Trust me on this , your credibility is on the line every time you refer a specimen for meteorite identification and that credibility slips down the toilet when you send in an obvious meteorwrong. The way I see it is, you owe a duty to the astro-geologist you contact to not waste his/her time. If you do a field accessment and are unable to eliminate/ exclude an object as a meteorite, only then do you start considering recommending it to a meteorite lab and that only after you've floated it to your other colleagues for their input. If you hold yourself out as a meteorite expert then you better be able to back it up with several the reasons it is not likely a meteorite or these meteorwrong owners will eat your lunch and send you packing with your tail twixed your legs--Because you did not confirm their rock as a meteorite--They obviously know more than you do!. I re-learn the following lesson each day: You should not interfere with another's right to remain ignorant. No matter how much wishing, hoping, or praying it isn't going to turn this water into wine. No matter how sincere you believe this pastor is--his hidden agenda is to keep this dream alive until he can explain it away and face the reality that this was not a God send. I assure you it has nothing to do with mineralogy. Some churches die on the vine for good reasons! Check out Luke's Gospel?--it has been a while since I did any church preaching. I feel for you but your Dutch Uncle would likely advise you to get away from this situation as soon as you can extract yourself honoring whatever commitments you've made. Read what Randy Korotev has to say after dealing with 1000's of meteorwrong owners http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/what_to_do.html The Quest New Hampshire isn't a large state(nor is Vermont ) and seems you would have scoured the state by now if not in person via google. Google the Chlorite mineral group (esp. Clinochlore) and the rock types greenschist , blueschist, and syenite. (See the links way below) I only have state for location, cursory description and photos(needing a reference object--coin, ruler, etc.) which you've taken down to go on. The new photo makes me go back to Actenolite-Tremolite as I can see large crystals and to me this looks like other occurrences I have seen. The flaky granules point to Clinochlore or any of several Chlorite group minerals. I think this rock is not
Re: [meteorite-list] Seeking Knowledge and Dealing with Meteorwrong Owners was Classification Q
Hi, EJ, Respectfully, I think you failed to comprehend the content of the whole thread! No one here thinks that it is a meteorite. Many, including yourself, have speculated what it may be. Half of your post is guessing what it is from pictures. Gary is going for the facts about the rock. Rock, not meteorite. Gary did not, nor did anyone else, post anything indicating that they thought it was a meteorite. We all know it's not a meteorite. No one is convinced that it is a valuable specimen, either. You misinterpreted a hope that the rock may be a mineral that the guy can sell for a few bucks honestly, instead of continuing his vision rant. That will be up to him. The point being made was closure to the guy's reference of the rock to meteorites, one way or another - especially for this list. The lengthy thread was due to so many, again including yourself, thinking that what he is doing is a waste of time, and the rock should remain a mystery for never-ending condescending by the list. When is getting to the truth ever a waste of time? The best way to increase your knowledge base is to deal with facts, not by guessing. Gary has taken the initiative and, at his own expense, will take samples to two reputable geologists he knows; not for classification, as you are under the impression, but for analysis only. The facts will be posted. You won't have to guess about it anymore. Gary used the word geologist. He's not taking up valuable time from meteorite labs. He is not having it tested as a possible meteorite, nor representing it as one to anyone. He is having it tested as a rock. You may want to read his post again. Don't you think what Gary is doing is scientific? Isn't this list, after all, a science-based interest? Aren't scientists supposed to be curious? I'm surprised that Gary is being so criticised by some, instead of commended! Emails are very easily misinterpreted. Please don't think that anything I typed was meant to be insulting or sarcastic. No gauntlet has been dropped. We're having a discussion. I only wanted to set the record straight. Cheers, Pete From: E J [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Pete Pete [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Seeking Knowledge and Dealing with Meteorwrong Owners was Classification Q Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 03:25:22 -0400 Hello Gary, Pete, List I've held back discussing this again as I am not the one on the vision quest. However, you've raised the issue of getting this classified aka lab tested--at a meteorite lab amongst other things. You think he can sell this for a sum and rebuild his failing ministry. He'll make more in bake sales. For Pete's sake...and mine , please tell us why you remain convinced that this is valuable specimen beyond a that of landscaping boulder? Interesting doesn't equate to rare and valuable. If it were, my collection would be worth millions. I also want to say I loathe going out on a limb especially working with photographs--there will always be someone near by with pruning shears and they have a long memory for when you made a bad call. Old Man's ambush of the whipper snapper: There are 3 straight up reasons not requiring lab work that show this can't be a Martian meteorite-- name one? How to Beef Up your Knowledge Base: In a nut shell, a way to improve your identification knowledge is to get out and see all the rocks you can, So when one does come up that you haven't seen before, you'll have a better basis to judge if it is rare or if it is just interesting. Additionally: read, read, read. Google is your friend. Get Norton's Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites and McSween's Meteorites and their Parent Bodies Read them three times. Study your own collection, practice describing each specimen to your self. Advice from the Good Ole Boy Girl Network: As far as seeking classification(?) Trust me on this , your credibility is on the line every time you refer a specimen for meteorite identification and that credibility slips down the toilet when you send in an obvious meteorwrong. The way I see it is, you owe a duty to the astro-geologist you contact to not waste his/her time. If you do a field accessment and are unable to eliminate/ exclude an object as a meteorite, only then do you start considering recommending it to a meteorite lab and that only after you've floated it to your other colleagues for their input. If you hold yourself out as a meteorite expert then you better be able to back it up with several the reasons it is not likely a meteorite or these meteorwrong owners will eat your lunch and send you packing with your tail twixed your legs--Because you did not confirm their rock as a meteorite--They obviously know more than you do!. I re-learn the following lesson each day: You should not interfere with another's right to remain ignorant. No matter how much wishing, hoping, or praying it isn't going to turn this water
