[meteorite-list] What to Do During an Earthquake
What to Do During an Earthquake https://www.reddit.com/r/geology/comments/y1jcoe/my_department_has_a_reminder_for_what_to_do/ Yours, Paul H. -- HISTORICAL AMERICAN METEORITE OF OVER 42 KG Bonhams Natural History auction on Sep 21 offers 50+ lots of stellar planetary meteorite specimens, including a superb Canyon Diablo specimen. Browse the auction and register to bid online. Link: https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27815/cabinet-of-curiosities-natural-history-entomology-and-minerals/?utm_source=meteroritecentral_medium=banner_campaign=nat-sep-22_id=col-nat-sep-22 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] what you can do on fake pallasites from China sold on Ebay
List, If you want information send me a personal email with your name and tele #. Thank you. Dirk Ross..Tokyo __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Dust From Space Tells Us About Ourselves
What Dust From Space Tells Us About Ourselves Micrometeorites land on every corner of Earth. Matthew Genge is using these shards of interplanetary space to understand Earth and its place in the solar system. Quanta Magazine https://www.quantamagazine.org/matt-genge-uses-dust-from-space-to-tell-the-story-of-the-solar-system-20210204/ Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What Is This Thing? Mystery Rock or Meteorwrong?
It does look like one of the actual Lunar samples given away by our Government (same lucite presentation but without the numbers) back in the day. I have seen one like it that was given to a Tucson Ratheon executive. It is my understanding that the Gov. wants these back so, it is likely unsaleable if that is what it is. Carl > On November 9, 2020 at 10:26 PM Paul via Meteorite-list > wrote: > > > On Reddit, there is an item (rock?) labeled "AN/TCS-62" that > many people are guessing is either a meteorite or Moon rock at: > https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/jr62jh /my_grandpa_gave_this_to_me_before_he_died_does/ > > Although I disagree with either identification, the members > of this list might have fun making their guesses as to what > this mystery specimen is. > > Have fun, > > Paul H. > > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Love & Life __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What Is This Thing? Mystery Rock or Meteorwrong?
"Air Force personnel work in the TSC-62 technical control central van during arctic training Exercise JACK FROST 77, Jack Frost '77 exercised command and control techniques and procedures for joint task force operations." The cube reads AN/TSC-62 , the AN indicates antenna I think probably a piece of some military communications device given in recognition of their particular involvement would be my guess. _paul Gessler -Original Message- From: Paul via Meteorite-list Sent: Monday, November 09, 2020 7:26 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What Is This Thing? Mystery Rock or Meteorwrong? On Reddit, there is an item (rock?) labeled "AN/TCS-62" that many people are guessing is either a meteorite or Moon rock at: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/jr62jh/my_grandpa_gave_this_to_me_before_he_died_does/ Although I disagree with either identification, the members of this list might have fun making their guesses as to what this mystery specimen is. Have fun, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Is This Thing? Mystery Rock or Meteorwrong?
On Reddit, there is an item (rock?) labeled "AN/TCS-62" that many people are guessing is either a meteorite or Moon rock at: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/jr62jh/my_grandpa_gave_this_to_me_before_he_died_does/ Although I disagree with either identification, the members of this list might have fun making their guesses as to what this mystery specimen is. Have fun, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What dates are the Tucson Show in 2019?
This year it is from February 2 to February 16. Are you coming? I will be in the InnSuites (Tucson CityCenter) as usual. Anne blackimpactika.comimpact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Tim Heitz via Meteorite-list To: meteorite-list Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 8:48 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] What dates are the Tucson Show in 2019? Hi, What dates are the best days to see all the Meteorite Dealers at the Tucson show in 2019 ? Thank You, Tim Heitz __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What dates are the Tucson Show in 2019?
Hi, What dates are the best days to see all the Meteorite Dealers at the Tucson show in 2019 ? Thank You, Tim Heitz __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact? Unacknowledged
If I may be so bold I would like to suggest a more recent book/documentary. "Unacknowledged" by Dr. Steven M. Greer. Saw the movie, have the book - Absolutely mind blowing! Steven Greer was here in Toronto a few months back for a showing and talk. Roman Jirasek -- From: "Sterling K. Webb via Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 8:26 PM To: "'Alfredo Petrov'" <alfr...@mindat.org> Cc: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact? Alfredo, Paul, List, I can suggest two recent (within a few decades) books on the whole question of Extraterrestial contact: "If the Universe is Teeming With Aliens, Where Is Every- body?" (2002) by Stephen Webb, presents in detail the arguments for 50 different explanations for the apparent lack of evidence for aliens everywhere (or anywhere). He has a website: <http://stephenwebb.info/category/fermi-paradox/> A history of recent searches and searchers is: "Five Billion Years of Solitude: The Search for Life Among the Stars," by Lee Billings" (2013). Even that title seems mournful to me... Sterling Webb _ From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Alfredo Petrov via Meteorite-list Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2017 7:56 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact? Let's hope that no one ever makes contact, because it would be a disaster for one of the parties, us or them. In first contacts between cultures, the less developed one is usually destroyed, if not by violence then by inferiority complexes, addictions and other mental issues. Making contact with an alien culture that is just coincidentally at the same technological level as us would be so improbable as to be in the realm of religious hope rather than reality. On 19 November 2017 at 02:02, Roman Jirasek via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote: As America has turned away from searching for extraterrestrial intelligence . . . Maybe because they already found it years ago!? Roman From: Paul via Meteorite-list Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:11 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com <mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Subject: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact? What Happens If China Makes First Contact? As America has turned away from searching for extraterrestrial intelligence, China has built the world's largest radio dish for precisely that purpose. The Atlantic, Ross Andersen, December 2017 https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/what-happens-if-china-m akes-first-contact/544131/ <https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/what-happens-if-china- makes-first-contact/544131/> https://soundcloud.com/user-154380542/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-cont act-the-atlantic-ross-andersen <https://soundcloud.com/user-154380542/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-con tact-the-atlantic-ross-andersen> With Massive Radio Telescope, China Takes World's Lead In Search For Alien Life, here and Now, November 16, 2017 http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/11/16/china-radio-telescope <http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/11/16/china-radio-telescope> The Alien Observatory --China's Preeminent Philosopher of 'First Contact' Visits New FAST Radio Telescope: "Warns of Extinction By a Hidden Hunter" The Daily Galaxy, November 08, 2017 http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2017/11/the-alien-observatory-chinas-pr eeminent-philosopher-of-first-contact-visits-new-fast-radio-telsecope-warns- of-human-1.html <http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2017/11/the-alien-observatory-chinas-p reeminent-philosopher-of-first-contact-visits-new-fast-radio-telsecope-warns -of-human-1.html> Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral <https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral> and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com <http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com <mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list <https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list> __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral <https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral> and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com <http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com <mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman
Re: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact?
Alfredo, Paul, List, I can suggest two recent (within a few decades) books on the whole question of Extraterrestial contact: "If the Universe is Teeming With Aliens, Where Is Every- body?" (2002) by Stephen Webb, presents in detail the arguments for 50 different explanations for the apparent lack of evidence for aliens everywhere (or anywhere). He has a website: <http://stephenwebb.info/category/fermi-paradox/> A history of recent searches and searchers is: "Five Billion Years of Solitude: The Search for Life Among the Stars," by Lee Billings" (2013). Even that title seems mournful to me... Sterling Webb _ From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Alfredo Petrov via Meteorite-list Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2017 7:56 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact? Let's hope that no one ever makes contact, because it would be a disaster for one of the parties, us or them. In first contacts between cultures, the less developed one is usually destroyed, if not by violence then by inferiority complexes, addictions and other mental issues. Making contact with an alien culture that is just coincidentally at the same technological level as us would be so improbable as to be in the realm of religious hope rather than reality. On 19 November 2017 at 02:02, Roman Jirasek via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote: As America has turned away from searching for extraterrestrial intelligence . . . Maybe because they already found it years ago!? Roman From: Paul via Meteorite-list Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:11 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com <mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Subject: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact? What Happens If China Makes First Contact? As America has turned away from searching for extraterrestrial intelligence, China has built the world's largest radio dish for precisely that purpose. The Atlantic, Ross Andersen, December 2017 https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/what-happens-if-china-m akes-first-contact/544131/ <https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/what-happens-if-china- makes-first-contact/544131/> https://soundcloud.com/user-154380542/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-cont act-the-atlantic-ross-andersen <https://soundcloud.com/user-154380542/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-con tact-the-atlantic-ross-andersen> With Massive Radio Telescope, China Takes World's Lead In Search For Alien Life, here and Now, November 16, 2017 http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/11/16/china-radio-telescope <http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/11/16/china-radio-telescope> The Alien Observatory --China's Preeminent Philosopher of 'First Contact' Visits New FAST Radio Telescope: "Warns of Extinction By a Hidden Hunter" The Daily Galaxy, November 08, 2017 http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2017/11/the-alien-observatory-chinas-pr eeminent-philosopher-of-first-contact-visits-new-fast-radio-telsecope-warns- of-human-1.html <http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2017/11/the-alien-observatory-chinas-p reeminent-philosopher-of-first-contact-visits-new-fast-radio-telsecope-warns -of-human-1.html> Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral <https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral> and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com <http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com <mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list <https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list> __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral <https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral> and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com <http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com <mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list <https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list> __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and
Re: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact?
Let's hope that no one ever makes contact, because it would be a disaster for one of the parties, us or them. In first contacts between cultures, the less developed one is usually destroyed, if not by violence then by inferiority complexes, addictions and other mental issues. Making contact with an alien culture that is just coincidentally at the same technological level as us would be so improbable as to be in the realm of religious hope rather than reality. On 19 November 2017 at 02:02, Roman Jirasek via Meteorite-list < meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote: > As America has turned away from searching for > extraterrestrial intelligence . . . > > Maybe because they already found it years ago!? > > Roman > > > From: Paul via Meteorite-list > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:11 PM > To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact? > > > What Happens If China Makes First Contact? > As America has turned away from searching for > extraterrestrial intelligence, China has built the > world’s largest radio dish for precisely that purpose. > The Atlantic, Ross Andersen, December 2017 > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/what-ha > ppens-if-china-makes-first-contact/544131/ > https://soundcloud.com/user-154380542/what-happens-if-china- > makes-first-contact-the-atlantic-ross-andersen > > With Massive Radio Telescope, China Takes World's Lead > In Search For Alien Life, here and Now, November 16, 2017 > http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/11/16/china-radio-telescope > > The Alien Observatory --China's Preeminent Philosopher of > 'First Contact' Visits New FAST Radio Telescope: "Warns of > Extinction By a Hidden Hunter" The Daily Galaxy, > November 08, 2017 > http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2017/11/the-alien-obser > vatory-chinas-preeminent-philosopher-of-first-contact-visits > -new-fast-radio-telsecope-warns-of-human-1.html > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact?
As America has turned away from searching for extraterrestrial intelligence . . . Maybe because they already found it years ago!? Roman From: Paul via Meteorite-list Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:11 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact? What Happens If China Makes First Contact? As America has turned away from searching for extraterrestrial intelligence, China has built the world’s largest radio dish for precisely that purpose. The Atlantic, Ross Andersen, December 2017 https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-contact/544131/ https://soundcloud.com/user-154380542/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-contact-the-atlantic-ross-andersen With Massive Radio Telescope, China Takes World's Lead In Search For Alien Life, here and Now, November 16, 2017 http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/11/16/china-radio-telescope The Alien Observatory --China's Preeminent Philosopher of 'First Contact' Visits New FAST Radio Telescope: "Warns of Extinction By a Hidden Hunter" The Daily Galaxy, November 08, 2017 http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2017/11/the-alien-observatory-chinas-preeminent-philosopher-of-first-contact-visits-new-fast-radio-telsecope-warns-of-human-1.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Happens If China Makes First Contact?
What Happens If China Makes First Contact? As America has turned away from searching for extraterrestrial intelligence, China has built the world’s largest radio dish for precisely that purpose. The Atlantic, Ross Andersen, December 2017 https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-contact/544131/ https://soundcloud.com/user-154380542/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-contact-the-atlantic-ross-andersen With Massive Radio Telescope, China Takes World's Lead In Search For Alien Life, here and Now, November 16, 2017 http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/11/16/china-radio-telescope The Alien Observatory --China's Preeminent Philosopher of 'First Contact' Visits New FAST Radio Telescope: "Warns of Extinction By a Hidden Hunter" The Daily Galaxy, November 08, 2017 http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2017/11/the-alien-observatory-chinas-preeminent-philosopher-of-first-contact-visits-new-fast-radio-telsecope-warns-of-human-1.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?
Hi Ed and thanks for spirited discussion, I already covered most of what's wrong with your caricature of the Earth-Moon system when I discussed cosmic velocities in my original post. In science terms, the kinetic energy swamps the Earth's gravitational potential you are relying upon to protect the Moon from impact. Unfortunately the media continue to characterize the Earth and Moon as if they were these massive objects a whisper apart. It is as bad a caricature as it gets. Your first link to the Cassini image is confusing you and not representative of the relatives sizes and distances of Earth's and the Moon's disks. You are looking a images of light closer to the limit of the resolution from Saturn, which for all I know as well were taken at that precise moment to capture a Moonrise ... when the moon emerges from being eclipsed, an aesthetic planetary imaging target. You are then saying this is what at impactor sees. Saturn is around a billion miles away! That I assure you is not what an impactor sees! Your second video is a joke. Here is the video I ask you watch in reply to your bad geometry/astronomy lessons. as it pertains to impact shielding, and to give you a better visualization of how big space is and how insignificant our little planet is, even in the scheme of the Moon. Try to imagine how few objects approach the Moon after grazing Earth, or how few would reach it if not impacting Earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz9D6xba9Og As far as adjusting our models, lol, that would be Newton's department, not mine, though Rob might enjoy tweaking Newton ;-). The apple reputedly impacted his head and was not sucked into the trunk of the of the massive apple tree that had him daydreaming. Had it been otherwise, Newton's law of gravity might have been different and the gravitational constant might have allowed the Earth to protect the Moon from impacts with some practical significance. You do not provide a reference for your claim about significant impact protection of the Moon by Earth I won't reply on that one. It requires digging through your notions of why Rob and I may have defective understandings. There may be some interesting discussion there as to your notions and interpretations, but the other references you gave don't convince me to be a grunt at the moment ;-) Back to the concept of cosmic velocity (and the related law of conservation of momentum). If you take Newton's law of gravity between Earth and a would-be impactor coming in, and set it equal to the kinetic energy at the top of Earth's atmosphere it would need to be captured, you will see that the velocity relative to Earth must be less than 11.1 km/sec. That is an awfully slow moving rock. That speed is known as an escape velocity. Notice I said at the top of our atmosphere (100 km high). The speed drops off. Geosynchronous satellites have an escape velocity of just 4.3 km/sec. Cosmic velocities can well over 10 times that. The orbits can be bent, but unless they are on a very precise path to impact long before entering the Earth Moon system, they simply would fly right on by if they are moving faster than this velocity but not already headed for impact. As a matter of fact, beyond a geosynchronous orbit, I believe the Sun's gravitational pull is greater than Earth's. That' s a cool fact to know, considering Earth and the Moon are still pockmarked regularly. This is the hard part of space exploration. Impact or orbital insertion can be much more precision maneuvers than uncontrolled flybys. If you think differently, I recommend taking up golf, maybe putting is easier than they say! Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: E.P. Grondine via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2016 12:11 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna? Hi Rob, Doug - (Glad to hear that you're doing okay, Doug) What both of you need to do is to take the perspective of a potential impactor passing through the inner solar system, as seen in the first few seconds of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDrBIKOR01c The basic geometry of the problem is set out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTDcfI2dabk If it makes it easier, think of the Earth-Moon system as a pair of girls at a darkly lit party, and yourself as a young man. (A variant of the famous mathematical problem of the drunk's walk at the frat party.) While you may be attracted to the "prettier" (in terms of gravity/area) Moon, you are far more likely to run into her much larger "wingman", the Earth. Sorry, but that is just the way it is. At first, you're getting a warm fuzzy feeling (gravity) from the combined Earth/Moon system. That warm fuzzy feeling varies by the cubes of the radius of each of the two bodies, and is located somewhere amongst them
[meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?
Hi Rob, Doug - (Glad to hear that you're doing okay, Doug) What both of you need to do is to take the perspective of a potential impactor passing through the inner solar system, as seen in the first few seconds of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDrBIKOR01c The basic geometry of the problem is set out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTDcfI2dabk If it makes it easier, think of the Earth-Moon system as a pair of girls at a darkly lit party, and yourself as a young man. (A variant of the famous mathematical problem of the drunk's walk at the frat party.) While you may be attracted to the "prettier" (in terms of gravity/area) Moon, you are far more likely to run into her much larger "wingman", the Earth. Sorry, but that is just the way it is. At first, you're getting a warm fuzzy feeling (gravity) from the combined Earth/Moon system. That warm fuzzy feeling varies by the cubes of the radius of each of the two bodies, and is located somewhere amongst them. On your approach to the Earth/Moon system, you see your landing area (for only part of the month, see second video) in terms of area, which varies by the square of the radius. But of course gravity also varies by distance, so as you get close to theses two you're getting far more of that warm fuzzy feeling from the Earth,rather than the Moon. You head that way. You can use any computer language you prefer to model this system, and run it on any machine you like. But as a check on your computer model, you have to rely on the data. In this case, compare the data on smaller impactors from the Moon, (Apollo seismic and optical astronomy) with the data from the reconnaissance systems which have been operating on the Earth since the 1950's, and "alarming" the "stuff" out of those looking at the data from them. If there is a difference between your model's results and the data, then your model is defective. (An entertaining video on phonetic loading, the diameters of lunar craters, typing monkeys, and other natural phenomena: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCn8zs912OE) good hunting, E.P. PS - Will NEOcam make meteorite hunting far easier? Will the increased supply drive down prices even further? __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?
I gave the Earth a 200 km high atmosphere, so the protective factor is less than half the increase over an atmosphere-less Earth. When factoring the atmosphere/gravity with a 100 km atmosphere the bottom line is: Solid Earth fails to block 99.9931% of Lunar impactors (1/14,500 blocked). Earth plus atmosphere/gravity fails to block 99.9929% of Lunar Impactors (1/14,100 blocked) keeping in mind this is at the extreme of the atmosphere stopping everything in its tracks, and then Earth's gravity pulling it in for Earth Impact, for those objects heading originally toward Lunar impact ... -Original Message- From: MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> To: ROBERT.D.MATSON <robert.d.mat...@leidos.com>; epgrondine <epgrond...@yahoo.com>; meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 3:10 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna? The following scenario estimates error in protection referencing Earth's atmosphere rather than gravity alone. It assumes Earth's atmosphere extends 100 km into space and treats everything as spherical or spherical shells. If all impactors crossing through the atmosphere are assumed sucked into Earth (an exaggeration, but a way to get a handle for the error) due to the deceleration they experience, the protection Earth with its atmosphere offers the Moon is less than 10% additional than if there were no Earthly atmosphere. Gravity itself is even less of an effect. Think about the example the Grand Teton fireball of 1972 passed through the atmosphere at a close approach of only 57 km above ground level but did not impact Earth. The concept is to focus on the relative cosmic velocities involved - impactors are generally totally different animals going on their ways, compared to satellites placed in precision Earth centered orbits (net vector of relative velocity to Earth i s zero) which decay into falling junk. We can assume Earth will change the trajectories of potential impactors, but there will be no favoring of diverting vs. sending onward to Lunar collision trend. The one exception is that the Earth indeed can protect the Moon against these quasi Moon type NEOs by establishing a safe zone, but only one quasimoon vs. the rest of the objects in the neighborhood is an extremely minute fraction, or effectively maybe zero at times, of potential impactors. The numbers:, Earth-Moon distance = 384,400 km Earth Radius = 6,371 km Earth plus atmosphere Radius = 6,571 km Atmosphere defined with height = 100 km) Area of Lunar spherical celestial shell at E-M distance 1.853 X 10^12 km2 Cross Sectional Area of solid Earth 1.275 X 10^8 km2 Cross Sectional Area of Earth with atmosphere 1.356 X 10^8 km2 ratio to solid Earth 1/14,500 ratio to Earth with atmosphere 1/13,700 Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> To: E.P. Grondine <epgrond...@yahoo.com>; meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2016 10:03 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna? Earth provides no real protection for the Moon from asteroid/meteoroid impact. I think the earth subtends something like one 15,000th of the celestial sphere from Luna's perspective. Yes, there is a gravitational factor that improves that a bit, but you're still talking a tiny fraction of a percent "protection". Doubt it's even measurable as far as earth impact rate vs. Moon's. --Rob From: Meteorite-list [meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] on behalf of E.P. Grondine via Meteorite-list [meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com] Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 4:39 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna? Hi Paul - Two of the impact events are now pretty well known: http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3656 http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3668 Of course, work is just beginning on the sequence of impacts for South America and their related meltwater pulses. It is really strange to watch the psychological process of denial going on here. I wish I had just a small part of the money spent on this denial for more research into what actually occurred. Or better yet, have your personal salary dependent on actual impact research. That would certainly focus your own fine skills. BTW, you can not use impact data from the Moon in a straight line to estimate the impact hazard for the Earth. The Earth usually protects the Moon from impactors. E.P. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https:
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?
The following scenario estimates error in protection referencing Earth's atmosphere rather than gravity alone. It assumes Earth's atmosphere extends 100 km into space and treats everything as spherical or spherical shells. If all impactors crossing through the atmosphere are assumed sucked into Earth (an exaggeration, but a way to get a handle for the error) due to the deceleration they experience, the protection Earth with its atmosphere offers the Moon is less than 10% additional than if there were no Earthly atmosphere. Gravity itself is even less of an effect. Think about the example the Grand Teton fireball of 1972 passed through the atmosphere at a close approach of only 57 km above ground level but did not impact Earth. The concept is to focus on the relative cosmic velocities involved - impactors are generally totally different animals going on their ways, compared to satellites placed in precision Earth centered orbits (net vector of relative velocity to Earth is zero) which decay into falling junk. We can assume Earth will change the trajectories of potential impactors, but there will be no favoring of diverting vs. sending onward to Lunar collision trend. The one exception is that the Earth indeed can protect the Moon against these quasi Moon type NEOs by establishing a safe zone, but only one quasimoon vs. the rest of the objects in the neighborhood is an extremely minute fraction, or effectively maybe zero at times, of potential impactors. The numbers:, Earth-Moon distance = 384,400 km Earth Radius = 6,371 km Earth plus atmosphere Radius = 6,571 km Atmosphere defined with height = 100 km) Area of Lunar spherical celestial shell at E-M distance 1.853 X 10^12 km2 Cross Sectional Area of solid Earth 1.275 X 10^8 km2 Cross Sectional Area of Earth with atmosphere 1.356 X 10^8 km2 ratio to solid Earth 1/14,500 ratio to Earth with atmosphere 1/13,700 Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> To: E.P. Grondine <epgrond...@yahoo.com>; meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2016 10:03 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna? Earth provides no real protection for the Moon from asteroid/meteoroid impact. I think the earth subtends something like one 15,000th of the celestial sphere from Luna's perspective. Yes, there is a gravitational factor that improves that a bit, but you're still talking a tiny fraction of a percent "protection". Doubt it's even measurable as far as earth impact rate vs. Moon's. --Rob From: Meteorite-list [meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] on behalf of E.P. Grondine via Meteorite-list [meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com] Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 4:39 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna? Hi Paul - Two of the impact events are now pretty well known: http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3656 http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3668 Of course, work is just beginning on the sequence of impacts for South America and their related meltwater pulses. It is really strange to watch the psychological process of denial going on here. I wish I had just a small part of the money spent on this denial for more research into what actually occurred. Or better yet, have your personal salary dependent on actual impact research. That would certainly focus your own fine skills. BTW, you can not use impact data from the Moon in a straight line to estimate the impact hazard for the Earth. The Earth usually protects the Moon from impactors. E.P. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?
Earth provides no real protection for the Moon from asteroid/meteoroid impact. I think the earth subtends something like one 15,000th of the celestial sphere from Luna's perspective. Yes, there is a gravitational factor that improves that a bit, but you're still talking a tiny fraction of a percent "protection". Doubt it's even measurable as far as earth impact rate vs. Moon's. --Rob From: Meteorite-list [meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] on behalf of E.P. Grondine via Meteorite-list [meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com] Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 4:39 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna? Hi Paul - Two of the impact events are now pretty well known: http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3656 http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3668 Of course, work is just beginning on the sequence of impacts for South America and their related meltwater pulses. It is really strange to watch the psychological process of denial going on here. I wish I had just a small part of the money spent on this denial for more research into what actually occurred. Or better yet, have your personal salary dependent on actual impact research. That would certainly focus your own fine skills. BTW, you can not use impact data from the Moon in a straight line to estimate the impact hazard for the Earth. The Earth usually protects the Moon from impactors. E.P. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?
Hi Paul - Two of the impact events are now pretty well known: http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3656 http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3668 Of course, work is just beginning on the sequence of impacts for South America and their related meltwater pulses. It is really strange to watch the psychological process of denial going on here. I wish I had just a small part of the money spent on this denial for more research into what actually occurred. Or better yet, have your personal salary dependent on actual impact research. That would certainly focus your own fine skills. BTW, you can not use impact data from the Moon in a straight line to estimate the impact hazard for the Earth. The Earth usually protects the Moon from impactors. E.P. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WHAT WAS THAT?! Bright light, possible meteor streaks across Arizona sky
My camera has been down, so nothing on my end :( http://www.kvoa.com/story/32121907/possible-meteor-sighting-creates-excitement-around-arizona On Thu, 6/2/16, Tommy via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote: Subject: [meteorite-list] WHAT WAS THAT?! Bright light, possible meteor streaks across Arizona sky To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, June 2, 2016, 7:47 AM http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/what-was-that-bright-light-streaks-across-sky Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WHAT WAS THAT?! Bright light, possible meteor streaks across Arizona sky
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/what-was-that-bright-light-streaks-across-sky Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this meteorwrong?
We have something very much like this in Arkansas, and similar giant spherical concretions are know from a number of other places around the globe as well. If the link below doesn't work, you can google the title. MISCELLANEOUS PUBLICATION 22 SPHERICAL BOULDERS IN NORTH-CENTRAL ARKANSAS by William D. Hanson and J. Michael Howard http://www.geology.ar.gov/pdf/MP%2022%20Prim%20Boulders.pdf__ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [meteorite-list} What is this meteorwrong?
Yep, a canon ball. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 10, 2016, at 11:23 PM, Anne Black via Meteorite-list > <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote: > > My guess: > > A large canon ball. > > > Anne M. Black > www.IMPACTIKA.com > impact...@aol.com > > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Blood via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > Sent: Sun, Apr 10, 2016 9:14 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [meteorite-list} What is this meteorwrong? > > Hi all, >Some of you on the list (especially the dealers) may have also > Been contacted by this guy. He is from Greece and says he dug up > This 55.2Kg sphere from 20 meters deep. He asked if I thought it > Were a meteorite. I assured him it was not but I am fascinated by it. >Any guesses as to what people think it could be? > > SEE HERE: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/NotAMeteorite.html > > > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [meteorite-list} What is this meteorwrong?
My guess: A large canon ball. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Michael Blood via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Sun, Apr 10, 2016 9:14 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [meteorite-list} What is this meteorwrong? Hi all, Some of you on the list (especially the dealers) may have also Been contacted by this guy. He is from Greece and says he dug up This 55.2Kg sphere from 20 meters deep. He asked if I thought it Were a meteorite. I assured him it was not but I am fascinated by it. Any guesses as to what people think it could be? SEE HERE: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/NotAMeteorite.html __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [meteorite-list} What is this meteorwrong?
Hi all, Some of you on the list (especially the dealers) may have also Been contacted by this guy. He is from Greece and says he dug up This 55.2Kg sphere from 20 meters deep. He asked if I thought it Were a meteorite. I assured him it was not but I am fascinated by it. Any guesses as to what people think it could be? SEE HERE: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/NotAMeteorite.html __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Smacks Into Ceres Stays On Ceres
https://news.brown.edu/articles/2015/10/ceres What smacks into Ceres stays on Ceres Brown University Contact: Kevin Stacey 401-863-3766 October 14, 2015 Ceres, the largest object in the asteroid belt and closest dwarf planet to Earth, had been remarkable for its plain surface. New research suggests that most of the material that has struck Ceres in high-speed collisions has stuck - billions of years worth of meteorite material. PROVIDENCE, R.I. [Brown University] - A new set of high-velocity impact experiments suggests that the dwarf planet Ceres may be something of a cosmic dartboard: Projectiles that slam into it tend to stick. The experiments, performed using the Vertical Gun Range at NASA's Ames Research Center, suggest that when asteroids and other impactors hit Ceres, much of the impact material remains on the surface instead of bouncing off into space. The findings suggest the surface of Ceres could consist largely of a mish-mash of meteoritic material collected over billions of years of bombardment. The research, by Terik Daly and Peter Schultz of Brown University, is published in Geophysical Research Letters . Ceres is the largest object in the asteroid belt and the nearest dwarf planet to Earth. Until the recent arrival of the Dawn spacecraft, all that was known about Ceres came from telescopic observations. The observations showed Ceres to be mysteriously low in density, suggesting it is made either of very porous silicate material, or perhaps contains a large layer of water ice. Observations of its surface were remarkable as well - largely for being unremarkable. "It's really bland in the telescopic observations," said Daly, a Ph.D. student at Brown and the study's lead author. "It's like someone took a single color of spray paint and sprayed the whole thing. When we think about what might have caused this homogeneous surface, our thoughts turn to impact processes." And to understand impact processes, the researchers turned to NASA's Vertical Gun Range, a cannon with a 14-foot barrel that can launch projectiles at up to 16,000 miles per hour. For this work, Daly and Schultz wanted to simulate impacts into low-density surfaces that mimic the two broad possibilities for the composition of Ceres' surface: porous silicate or icy. "The idea was to look at those two end-member cases, because we really don't know yet exactly what Ceres is like," Daly said. For the porous silicate case, the researchers launched impactors into a powdered pumice. For the icy case, they used two targets: snow, and snow covered by a thin veneer of fluffy silicate material, simulating the possibility the Ceres' ice sits below a silicate layer. They then blasted these targets with pebble-sized bits of basalt and aluminum, simulating both stony and metallic meteorites. The study showed that in all cases, large proportions of the impact material remained in and around the impact crater. This was especially true in the icy case, Daly said. "We show that when you have a vertical impact into snow - an analog for the porous ice we think might be just beneath the surface of Ceres - you can have about 77 percent of the impactor's mass stay in or near the crater." The results were a bit of a surprise, said Schultz, who has studied impact processes for many years as professor of earth, environmental, and planetary sciences at Brown. "This is really contrary to previous estimates for small bodies," Schultz said. "The thought was that you'd eject more material that you'd collect, but we show you can really deliver a ton of material." The impact speeds used in the experiments were similar to speeds thought to be common in asteroid belt collisions. The findings suggest that a majority of impacts on porous bodies like Ceres cause an accumulation of impact material on the surface. "People have thought that perhaps if an impact was unusually slow, then you could deliver this much material," Schultz said. "But what we're saying is that for a typical, average-speed impact in the asteroid belt, you're delivering a ton of material." Over billions of years of such impacts, Ceres may have accumulated quite a bit of non-native material, Daly and Schultz said, much of it mixing together to create the relatively nondescript surface seen from telescopes. The researchers are hopeful that as the Dawn spacecraft scans the surface at much higher resolution, it might be able to pick out individual patches of this delivered material. That would help confirm the relevance of these experiments to celestial bodies, the researchers say. The results have implications for missions that aim to return asteroid samples to Earth. Unless the landing sites are carefully chosen, the researchers say, those missions could end up with samples that aren't representative of the object's original material. To get that, it might be necessary to find an area where there has been a relatively
[meteorite-list] What time is the (blood moon) supermoon lunar eclipse tonight? September 2015 astrological event Sunday is rare
Hello Listers This will be a cool event to watch unfold tonight. Total lunar eclipse starts at 10:11 pm EST Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html Website http://meteoritefalls.com What time is the (blood moon) supermoon lunar eclipse tonight? September 2015 astrological event Sunday is rare Source: http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/09/what_time_is_the_supermoon_ton.html __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Happened to Early Mars' Atmosphere? New Study Eliminates One Theory
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4708 What Happened to Early Mars' Atmosphere? New Study Eliminates One Theory Jet Propulsion Laboratory September 2, 2015 Scientists may be closer to solving the mystery of how Mars changed from a world with surface water billions of years ago to the arid Red Planet of today. A new analysis of the largest known deposit of carbonate minerals on Mars suggests that the original Martian atmosphere may have already lost most of its carbon dioxide by the era of valley network formation. "The biggest carbonate deposit on Mars has, at most, twice as much carbon in it as the current Mars atmosphere," said Bethany Ehlmann of the California Institute of Technology and NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, both in Pasadena. "Even if you combined all known carbon reservoirs together, it is still nowhere near enough to sequester the thick atmosphere that has been proposed for the time when there were rivers flowing on the Martian surface." Carbon dioxide makes up most of the Martian atmosphere. That gas can be pulled out of the air and sequestered or pulled into the ground by chemical reactions with rocks to form carbonate minerals. Years before the series of successful Mars missions, many scientists expected to find large Martian deposits of carbonates holding much of the carbon from the planet's original atmosphere. Instead, these missions have found low concentrations of carbonate distributed widely, and only a few concentrated deposits. By far the largest known carbonate-rich deposit on Mars covers an area at least the size of Delaware, and maybe as large as Arizona, in a region called Nili Fossae. Christopher Edwards, a former Caltech researcher now with the U.S. Geological Survey in Flagstaff, Arizona, and Ehlmann reported the findings and analysis in a paper posted online by the journal Geology. Their estimate of how much carbon is locked into the Nili Fossae carbonate deposit uses observations from numerous Mars missions, including the Thermal Emission Spectrometer (TES) on NASA's Mars Global Surveyor orbiter, the mineral-mapping Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars (CRISM) and two telescopic cameras on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, and the Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) on NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter. Edwards and Ehlmann compare their tally of sequestered carbon at Nili Fossae to what would be needed to account for an early Mars atmosphere dense enough to sustain surface waters during the period when flowing rivers left their mark by cutting extensive river-valley networks. By their estimate, it would require more than 35 carbonate deposits the size of the one examined at Nili Fossae. They deem it unlikely that so many large deposits have been overlooked in numerous detailed orbiter surveys of the planet. While deposits from an even earlier time in Mars history could be deeper and better hidden, they don't help solve the thin-atmosphere conundrum at the time the river-cut valleys formed. The modern Martian atmosphere is too tenuous for liquid water to persist on the surface. A denser atmosphere on ancient Mars could have kept water from immediately evaporating. It could also have allowed parts of the planet to be warm enough to keep liquid water from freezing. But if the atmosphere was once thicker, what happened to it? One possible explanation is that Mars did have a much denser atmosphere during its flowing-rivers period, and then lost most of it to outer space from the top of the atmosphere, rather than by sequestration in minerals. "Maybe the atmosphere wasn't so thick by the time of valley network formation," Edwards said. "Instead of Mars that was wet and warm, maybe it was cold and wet with an atmosphere that had already thinned. How warm would it need to have been for the valleys to form? Not very. In most locations, you could have had snow and ice instead of rain. You just have to nudge above the freezing point to get water to thaw and flow occasionally, and that doesn't require very much atmosphere." NASA's Curiosity Mars rover mission has found evidence of ancient top-of-atmosphere loss, based on the modern Mars atmosphere's ratio of heavier carbon to lighter carbon. Uncertainty remains about how much of that loss occurred before the period of valley formation; much may have happened earlier. NASA's MAVEN orbiter, examining the outer atmosphere of Mars since late 2014, may help reduce that uncertainty. Arizona State University, Tempe, provided the TES and THEMIS instruments. The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, Laurel, Maryland., provided CRISM. JPL, a division of Caltech, manages the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter and Mars Odyssey project for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington, and managed the Mars Global Surveyor project through its nine years of orbiter operations at Mars. Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver built the
[meteorite-list] What To Bring to Ensisheim - AD
Dear List, I would like to ask those attending the Ensisheim Show if there is anything I have that you would like me to bring as I will be selling again this year. There is a lot on my web site and much more material on the MetBull that I haven't offered at all yet. Weight may be a factor but I will do my best to bring as much as possible. If you are interested in anything please email me in private as to not clog up the List, Thanks. Best Regards, Greg AD #9 of 52 Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WHAT OCCURS IN A LARGE HYPERVELOCITY IMPACT ON AN ICE SHEET? PART 3
Hola Listeros - Four weeks ago, we pointed out that a major rise in sea levels and a major change in climate occurred well before the dates for what is widely and mistakenly called the Younger Dryas Boundary impact event. Three weeks ago we pointed out a geobleme in Canada that may or may not be associated with the Holocene Start Impact Event. Two weeks ago we returned to consideration of the question of What occurs in a large hypervelocity impact on an ice sheet?, and traced the water release. This week we take a look at other climatic effects. First off, there was not a persistent atmospheric dust load. The larger mega-fauna survived the Holocene Start Impact Event, only to die from starvation due to the much later impact dust loading ca. 10,850 BCE. As ice appears to have been hit and not the ground, it is to be expected that what would be released would be water, and not dust from the ground. That would leave the dust from the impactor(s), but this would have been precipitated out of the atmosphere by the water vapor released in the impact(s). The best current map of impactites from this cometary encounter may be found here: http://www.uc.edu/news/NR.aspx?id=17831 Which map most likely elides the data from the impacts of several comet fragments, impacts which occurred at different times during the Holocene Start Impact Event. Of course, the initial impacts of the Holocene Start Impact Event would have covered a fair part of the ice sheet with black dust, which would have absorbed sunlight and led to ice melting. Those melting waters, both initial and later, would have led to the further dispersal of the impactite dust. Without further coring and detailed studies, the map of impactites shown above is known a priori to be of very limited use. Which leads us back to consideration of the missing Grondine Minima, which we discussed earlier: We can see that the last ice age lacked a maxima of cold: http://www.climate4you.com/images/VostokTemp0-42%20BP.gif Let us call this missing minimal temperature the Grondine Minima. The discontinuity with earlier glacial cycles begins at about the same time as the first spike in neutrons between 20,000-10,000 BP. Global Temperature: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/alley2000/alley2000.gif http://s90.photobucket.com/user/dhm1353/media/Holocene-1.png.html Since atmospheric dust lading from an ice sheet impact could not account for continued melting, What accounts for the continued ice sheet melt, and the creation of Glacial Lake Agassiz? The best hypothesis we have been able to come up with involves this mechanism: http://www.chesapeakequarterly.net/images/uploads/siteimages/CQ/V12N4/p-7a.png When cold water was released into the Pacific Current, it lead to less warm moist air over the ice sheet. That in turn led to less snow and ice, which led to more sunlight being absorbed, which led to further melting. Later impacts may have released meltwater: see slide 18 here for the timing of meltwater pulses: http://slideplayer.com/slide/2808821/ Especially and carefully note that these are PULSES, and not continuous processes. se also slide 34 for a detailed pollen series for Eastern North America, in particular the data for the Ohio paleoclimates. (For your viewing pleasure - an introduction to isolation and precession: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRdyNn1tB-Eindex=1list=PLmen0eQI4-Lof_GS8Amc9sysdRMrRYzps) good hunting, all - E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WHAT OCCURS IN A LARGE HYPERVELOCITY IMPACT ON AN ICE SHEET? PART 2
Hola Listeros - Three weeks ago, we pointed out that a major rise in sea levels and a major change in climate occurred well before the dates for what is widely and mistakenly called the Younger Dryas Boundary impact event. Two weeks ago we pointed out a geobleme in Canada that may or may not be associated with the Holocene Start Impact Event. This week we return to consideration of the question of What occurs in a large hypervelocity impact on an ice sheet?. While the answer to this obviously depends on where it hits, it is clear that large amounts of water are released. Thus one might suppose that if one had data on water flows down river drainages during this period, one could determine roughly where a hypervelocity impactor hit. Now it just so happens that for 3 river drainages, we have that data. The Drainages: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7289/images/nature08954-f1.2.jpg and outflows: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v435/n7042/fig_tab/nature03617_F3.html One of the reasons we have that data for these outlets is that they feed into the Atlantic Conveyor, which is of some concern right now: http://www.pnas.org/content/109/49/19928/F1.large.jpg Unfortunately, the flows of the Columbia River and Yukon River, which drain into the Pacific Ocean, are not as well documented. (Based on the amount of research done, one might think that in some peoples' opinions the Pacific Ocean plays no role in global climate.) Columbia River Outflow Overview: http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/37/1/95.full or more precisely this graph of the salinity of the water at the outlfow of the Columbia River (Lopes and Mix): http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/37/1/79.full.pdf+html But in performing this back calculation from river flows to impact point(s) one may also expect that water released by a large hypervelocity impact on the ice sheet may also have released enough water to breach the glacial ice dams, and this water contributed to the river flows: For Glacial Lake Missoula: http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/12/8/464.full.pdf+html and for Glacial Lake Bonneville: http://geology.utah.gov/popular/general-geology/great-salt-lake/commonly-asked-questions-about-utahs-great-salt-lake-lake-bonneville/#toggle-id-4 Now if one looks at the temperature data, one can see the first of the Holocene Start Impact(s) and the outflows occurred substantially before what is defined as the Younger Dryas: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/alley2000/alley2000.gif And what occurs in Ohio (where I am writing from) was that warming occurred first, and then cold again: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Planning/Environment/training/Context%20Studies/Pollen%20and%20Sedimentary%20Records%20Hebron%20Muskox%20Site%20Licking%20County%20OH.pdf As you can see from Shane's report, there is a re-cooling which likely coincides with the drainge of Glacial Lake Aggassiz around 10,800 BCE. (see also Intensity and Rate of Vegetation and Climatic Change, Linda C.K. Shane, The First Discovery of America, The Ohio Archaeological Council, Columbus, Ohio. if you can find a copy, but note that Shane's 14C dates in it have to be recalibrated.) good hunting,everyone E.P. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WHAT OCCURS IN A LARGE HYPERVELOCITY IMPACT ON AN ICE SHEET?
If it is evidence of an impact, it may have happened during the last ice age,
when the area around Lloydminster was under a huge mass of ice.
Ollen's theory, and he stresses that's all it is is a large asteroid hit and
melted the thick ice above the area, likely not even reaching the ground.
[epg - I don't think so. Not for this size of blast.]
http://www.meridianbooster.com/2009/03/18/did-a-massive-meteor-touch-down-here
Sunday, March 22, 2009
Lloydminster Meridian Booster
In the first of my notes to the list, I speculated on the timing of the
beginning of the Holocene Start Impact Event. In this note, I move on to
consider some possible geological evidence, and call attention to an earlier
comment by David Ollen on the mechanics of large hypervelocity impacts onto ice
sheets.
DID A MASSIVE METEOR TOUCH DOWN HERE?
Posted By Graham Mason
Posted 4 days ago
It's just a theory, but it's an interesting one.
David Ollen may have found evidence of a massive impact crater just south of
Kitscoty, but it doesn't look anything like what you might expect.
Instead of a huge hole in the ground, it's a circular plateau about 30
kilometres in diameter, with an inner circle about 12 kilometres in diameter.
With this evaporation, a great weight was lifted from the land and, combined
with the heavy ice still around the impact's circumference, caused the land
under the hole in the ice to rise 50 to 100 feet.
When you have three-quarters of a mile of ice over an area there's a lot of
pressure there, he said. That ice is heavy. When you all of a sudden bang it
and evaporate half of it, it takes the pressure off but the pressure is still
on around it.
If all of a sudden you knock the ice out of the spot, it's going to pop up.
Ollen noticed the anomaly while looking at topography maps to determine
Internet availability for households in the area.
We are an Internet service provider and we subscribe to a website that has a
topography map on it and we use those maps to tell people whether they can get
access rather than driving all the way to a place and telling them we can't
reach it, said Ollen. I thought about it for a little while and figured a few
things out over the weekend, I thought I may as well send it to Discover
Magazine and the Booster as well.
It's a big impact, 30 kilometres across. That's a heck of a big asteroid.
Ollen said he'd be interested in knowing what a professional would have to say
about it.
I've been a science nut since I was a kid. They used to call me Anti-matter
Dave when I was in school, said Ollen. I've always been interested in
science and archeology and geology and anything to do with science.
It's just a curiosity, it might be wrong it's just an interesting theory.
*END OF ARTICLE QUOTE*
If this is not the first impact of the Holocene Start Impact Event, or one of
the impacts in it, this geobleme bears the signs of perhaps being generated by
a large hypervelocity impact which must have occurred during the last ice age.
If it is the remains of a volcanic plug, would not the ice sheet would have
scoured it away during it's advance?
If this geobleme was not generated by a comet impact, but instead from an
asteroid impact, then perhaps bits of the impactor lie surrouding the area, and
good hunting, everone.
In either case, it strikes me that the water would cool the plasma and wash the
impactites out of the atmosphere almost immediately, along with any cosmic dust
loading from a comet's debris stream.
Obviously, looking at the water flows of the river drainages should help to
pinpoint the location of any ice sheet impact during the last ice age. Such as
the one the Choctaw remembered.
{Sterling, can you work the numbers for comet impact on an ice sheet, and give
us some rough estimates for force of the impact and the volume of water
released? The range for 1.8 atmpospheres overpressure, the kill zone, would
also be interesting. I think that no one has ever done a proper estimate for
the Meteor Crater kill zone. )
all the best,
Ed
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[meteorite-list] What Happens When Meteors Hit the Earth?
Hello Listers Well if a meteorite fell by me, I would pick it up :) Enjoy Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html Website http://meteoritefalls.com What Happens When Meteors Hit the Earth? Excerpt from Meteorites by Ronnie McKenzie Namibiana Buchdepot has shared an excerpt from Meteorites: A Southern African Perspective by Ronnie McKenzie, a comprehensive yet straightforward guide to meteorites for anyone interested in this far-reaching topic. In the excerpt, McKenzie explains what happens to meteors that appear to be heading towards the earth but never enter the atmosphere, and what happens when they actually do hit the surface. “If the observer does not hear any noise at all, then the meteor has either not landed, or the point of impact is too far away, despite the impression that it must have been just over the next hill,” McKenzie writes, disclosing details about the speed and debris of meteor showers. Read the short excerpt to learn more about this interesting phenomenon: Although they appear to be heading downwards, they may, in reality, be 120 km or more above the ground and passing over the horizon, possibly without dropping in altitude at all. Such meteors simply start to burn up, in many cases forming spectacular fireballs, but they do not explode or ever come close to landing on Earth. After a display lasting perhaps just a few seconds, they travel back out into space, never to be seen again. If a meteor does in fact hit the surface of the Earth or if it explodes above the surface, it creates a significant noise either from the impact itself or from the associated shock wave. In both cases, the noise from the sonic boom can be heard and/ or felt more than 100 km away. •Keep reading: Namibiana Buchdepot Book details •Meteorites: A Southern African Perspective by Ronnie McKenzie Book homepage EAN: 9781775840985 Find this book with BOOK Finder! source: http://struiknature.bookslive.co.za/blog/2015/01/29/what-happens-when-meteors-hit-the-earth-excerpt-from-meteorites-by-ronnie-mckenzie/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What have we here.
Says it was filmed on the 19th. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d2_1416584050 Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What have we here.
Hi count. This one was fake, or at least flatly misrepresented. There were no media reports, or even a single eyewitness report to verify the event. I would have expected at least a phone call from someone as I live here in Oklahoma City. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 21, 2014, at 2:15 PM, Count Deiro via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Says it was filmed on the 19th. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d2_1416584050 Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What have we here.
A clever and well done fake but clearly a fake. Michael Farmer On Nov 21, 2014, at 12:15 PM, Count Deiro via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Says it was filmed on the 19th. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d2_1416584050 Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What have we here.
I always film my garbage can trips, lol Sent from my iPhone On Nov 21, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: A clever and well done fake but clearly a fake. Michael Farmer On Nov 21, 2014, at 12:15 PM, Count Deiro via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Says it was filmed on the 19th. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d2_1416584050 Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What If Voyager Had Explored Pluto?
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/overview/piPerspective.php The PI's Perspective What If Voyager Had Explored Pluto? Alan Stern June 23, 2014 As I mentioned in my previous PI Perspective http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/overview/piPerspective.php?page=piPerspective_06_11_2014, New Horizons crosses the orbit of Neptune, the outermost planet explored by the Voyager mission, late this August. Voyager's flyby of Neptune was in August 1989, 25 years ago! Across flights launched in 1977 and spanning the entirety of the 1980s, Voyagers 1 and 2 performed the historic, first detailed reconnaissance of our solar system's four giant planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus). The essentially identical Voyagers were launched with a core mission to explore the Jupiter and Saturn systems, and each spacecraft carried a powerful and diverse scientific instrument suite. After Saturn, Voyager 2 was tasked with reconnoitering Uranus and Neptune during an extended mission. Although Pluto's orbital position relative to Neptune made it impossible for Voyager 2 to travel to it from Neptune, Voyager 1 actually could have reached Pluto after its Saturn flyby, had it been targeted to do so. In fact, NASA and the Voyager project actually considered this option, but eliminated it in 1980 - going instead with the very exiting but lower-risk opportunity to investigate Saturn's large, scientifically enticing, cloud-enshrouded and liquid-bearing moon Titan. But if Voyager 1 had been sent to Pluto, it would have arrived in the spring of 1986, just after Voyager 2's exploration of Uranus that January. As New Horizons approaches Pluto in 2015, it's fun to think what we might have found almost 30 years ago had Voyager 1 - rather than New Horizons - been first to Pluto. A Blind Venture One big difference then was how much less we knew about Pluto and its context in our solar system. After all, it was 1986: Pluto's atmosphere wasn't discovered until 1988, and Pluto's surface wasn't imaged until 1994, when the Hubble Space Telescope (itself launched in 1990) revealed its patchy surface and polar caps. Even more importantly, Pluto's context in the solar system wasn't appreciated back in 1986, six years before the discovery of the Kuiper Belt. In fact, in 1986, we didn't even know that dwarf planets were a class of planet and that Pluto was simply the largest of this cohort of rocky, ice-covered worlds orbiting beyond Neptune. At the time we were still three years away from Voyager's flight past Triton - Neptune's largest moon and Pluto's best analog in the solar system - so we would not have known much about what to expect. And although Pluto's size, and the size of its Texas-sized satellite Charon, were both approximately known in 1986, the two main constituents of Pluto's surface ices-nitrogen and carbon monoxide and atmosphere-had not yet been discovered. Nor was there a hint of Pluto's system of at least four small moons, later discovered from 2005 to 2012. All in all, a 1986 Voyager flyby of the Pluto system would have been a blind venture to an unknown world. Technological Advances Voyager 1 carried a broad battery of cameras, spectrometers, plasma experiments, and even a sensitive magnetometer that it could have brought to bear on the exploration of Pluto. Because Pluto was almost exactly the same distance from the Sun in 1986 as Neptune was for the Voyager 2 flyby in 1989, it's clear that the instruments aboard Voyager 1 would have worked well at Pluto. And because Voyager 1 is /still/ working today, we know the spacecraft would likely have made the journey to Pluto successfully. Although Voyager 1 would have been able to map Pluto and Charon well with its cameras, and detect Pluto's atmosphere and study the atmosphere's basic properties, the Voyager science team would not have known to plan observations of the small moons they would have discovered on close approach, nor would they have been able to explore Pluto nearly as thoroughly as the payload aboard New Horizons will. That's because the onward march of technology between the design of Voyager's payload of sensors in the early 1970s, and our payload's design in the early 2000s, produced a revolution in capabilities every bit as fundamental as the difference between computers of the 1970s and computers of the 2000s. For example, the New Horizons payload will map surface composition at high resolution across essentially all of the close-approach hemispheres of Pluto and Charon. Voyager 1 carried no such capability. Similarly, whereas Voyager's ultraviolet spectrometer contained only two pixels, the Alice ultraviolet spectrometer on New Horizons contains more than 32,000 pixels, making it a much more efficient device to survey the Pluto system. Voyager 1 would have brought a magnetometer and a more diverse array of space plasma instruments to bear on Pluto than we will. But it's more important that New Horizons has much more advanced mapping cameras and a far more capable radio
[meteorite-list] What to do when a shipment paid with Paypal never arrives
Hi everyone, Maybe you can help with a suggestion. If a specimen paid with Paypal doesn't arrive through no fault of the seller, is there a way to get one's money back via Paypal? It appears to be a foreign post issue. I checked the resolution center info and there's nothing about this situation there. Thanks for your help. Bob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What to do when a shipment paid with Paypal never arrives
Here ya go, Bob... https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/popup/UAeBay-outside Jim On 4/19/2014 6:31 PM, Bob King wrote: Hi everyone, Maybe you can help with a suggestion. If a specimen paid with Paypal doesn't arrive through no fault of the seller, is there a way to get one's money back via Paypal? It appears to be a foreign post issue. I checked the resolution center info and there's nothing about this situation there. Thanks for your help. Bob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4569 / Virus Database: 3882/7368 - Release Date: 04/19/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What is more important in classification?
Hi all! Just a few general questions... The involves a mount and a thin section. What is more important now-a-days in classification? This mainly revolves some questions I have that I am not sure how to ask...mainly to those that classify. If you have a million dollar Scanning Election Microscope and can probe around and can determine classification from the geochem and BSE images, how important is it to see the transmitted and reflected features in a petrographic microscope? I suppose my thoughts and questions are possibly in reference to new technology vs. old technologymaybe not...but close and really deeper than just yes and no answers. Not that SEM's are new technology...just saying. I was told a while back you can not classify without both. So Why??? Are the SEM's not capable of doing what a petrographic microscope can do? Thanks! Jim -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is more important in classification?
Hi Jim, The electron microprobe is the workhorse for classifications, and most of this can be done simply with a probe mount (epoxy mounted sample that has been polished). In general you don't need a thin section or a petrographic microscope, although I always use a reflected light petrographic microscope for reconnaissance of the probe mount before it goes on the electron probe. The electron microprobe produces quantitative data that is usually necessary for detailed, high quality classification of chondrites and achondrites. For example the chemical compositions of fine grained olivines, pyroxenes, feldspars, etc. (which are diagnostic for classification) can really only be done with high precision by the electron microprobe. On the other hand, a polished thin section is nice because it can be both microprobed and be used for optical examination. There are some useful things you can do with transmitted light microscopy, such as describe shock effects and weathering and other optical subtleties that will not be easy to see with backscatter electrons. A lot of this type of detail though is not really needed for a classification. It gets into the realm of a research project, where you might also want TEM or age dating or cosmic ray exposure and so on -- the list of instruments is very long... Thin sections are more work to make than probe mounts. For iron meteorites usually a probe mount is all you need, because all you will be doing is looking at or analyzing the surface. And for irons, bulk chemical analyses are usually done for classification, which is not usually the case for chondrites and achondrites -- although for lunars INAA is great for grouping the breccias. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi all! Just a few general questions... The involves a mount and a thin section. What is more important now-a-days in classification? This mainly revolves some questions I have that I am not sure how to ask...mainly to those that classify. If you have a million dollar Scanning Election Microscope and can probe around and can determine classification from the geochem and BSE images, how important is it to see the transmitted and reflected features in a petrographic microscope? I suppose my thoughts and questions are possibly in reference to new technology vs. old technologymaybe not...but close and really deeper than just yes and no answers. Not that SEM's are new technology...just saying. I was told a while back you can not classify without both. So Why??? Are the SEM's not capable of doing what a petrographic microscope can do? Thanks! Jim -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is more important in classification?
I always want a doubly-polished thin section to do classification of stony meteorites. To determine the petrologic type of a chondrite, it is useful to gauge the degree of recrystallization (best done in transmitted light) and look for the size of plagioclase grains (which can be done in an SEM, BSE mode of an electron microprobe, and in reflected light, since plagioclase is a darker gray than olivine or pyroxene). To assess the degree of weathering, reflected light is most useful. The probe, of course, will give you the olivine, pyroxene, plagioclase, kamacite, etc. compositions. But in general, in order to get a feel for a stony meteorite (in terms of shock, brecciation, recrystallization, abundance of matrix material, etc.), I want to be able to use the probe and see the rock in transmitted and reflected light. I can also then probe interesting features that reveal themselves with the petrographic microscope. I don't worry so much about the fuzzy line between classification and research. Alan Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html - Original Message - From: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 7:57 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What is more important in classification? Hi all! Just a few general questions... The involves a mount and a thin section. What is more important now-a-days in classification? This mainly revolves some questions I have that I am not sure how to ask...mainly to those that classify. If you have a million dollar Scanning Election Microscope and can probe around and can determine classification from the geochem and BSE images, how important is it to see the transmitted and reflected features in a petrographic microscope? I suppose my thoughts and questions are possibly in reference to new technology vs. old technologymaybe not...but close and really deeper than just yes and no answers. Not that SEM's are new technology...just saying. I was told a while back you can not classify without both. So Why??? Are the SEM's not capable of doing what a petrographic microscope can do? Thanks! Jim -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is more important in classification?
Hi all, Thanks Carl for the clearest explanations ever engraved about meteorite analysis, to be etched on all web sites. Regards Michel IMCA 3869 -Message d'origine- De : meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] De la part de Carl Agee Envoyé : lundi 6 janvier 2014 18:10 À : Jim Wooddell Cc : meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Objet : Re: [meteorite-list] What is more important in classification? Hi Jim, The electron microprobe is the workhorse for classifications, and most of this can be done simply with a probe mount (epoxy mounted sample that has been polished). In general you don't need a thin section or a petrographic microscope, although I always use a reflected light petrographic microscope for reconnaissance of the probe mount before it goes on the electron probe. The electron microprobe produces quantitative data that is usually necessary for detailed, high quality classification of chondrites and achondrites. For example the chemical compositions of fine grained olivines, pyroxenes, feldspars, etc. (which are diagnostic for classification) can really only be done with high precision by the electron microprobe. On the other hand, a polished thin section is nice because it can be both microprobed and be used for optical examination. There are some useful things you can do with transmitted light microscopy, such as describe shock effects and weathering and other optical subtleties that will not be easy to see with backscatter electrons. A lot of this type of detail though is not really needed for a classification. It gets into the realm of a research project, where you might also want TEM or age dating or cosmic ray exposure and so on -- the list of instruments is very long... Thin sections are more work to make than probe mounts. For iron meteorites usually a probe mount is all you need, because all you will be doing is looking at or analyzing the surface. And for irons, bulk chemical analyses are usually done for classification, which is not usually the case for chondrites and achondrites -- although for lunars INAA is great for grouping the breccias. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi all! Just a few general questions... The involves a mount and a thin section. What is more important now-a-days in classification? This mainly revolves some questions I have that I am not sure how to ask...mainly to those that classify. If you have a million dollar Scanning Election Microscope and can probe around and can determine classification from the geochem and BSE images, how important is it to see the transmitted and reflected features in a petrographic microscope? I suppose my thoughts and questions are possibly in reference to new technology vs. old technologymaybe not...but close and really deeper than just yes and no answers. Not that SEM's are new technology...just saying. I was told a while back you can not classify without both. So Why??? Are the SEM's not capable of doing what a petrographic microscope can do? Thanks! Jim -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is more important in classification?
Hello Melinda, Alan and Carl, Thank you all very much for these explanations and the learning opportunity. You folks are great! I suppose I over worry about things when one person orders a mount and another a mount and thin section and another just a thin section. Sometimes a returned mount is not possible simply because there was not enough material left on the final mount cut. So, I began to think why a TS would really be needed with my total lack of experience on an SEM. I now have a better understanding about the mounts and thin sections I am making. I did not consider the possibility of further research in regards to the thin sections in my thoughts and you all brought that into the light for me as well. Thank you! Jim -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Happens to Comet ISON's Remains?
http://www.isoncampaign.org/karl/what-happens-to-isons-remains What happens to ISON's remains? by Karl Battams NASA Comet ISON Observing Campaign December 18, 2013 Apologies for going quiet on this site - it takes a while to recover from events like this! I have actually started several blog posts and then never gotten chance to finish them. That will happen eventually, and I'll post new content on here from time to time, but right now I just want to address this one issue that I'm still getting an email bombardment about: what happens now to comet ISON's remains? As we all know, comet ISON is no more. It clearly fell apart in the hours surrounding its close brush with the Sun and now exists simple as a dusty cloud and some warm fuzzy memories. But what of that dusty cloud? What if there are chunks remaining? Where are they going? Will they change course and hit Earth? Is Earth going to pass through ISON's remains? Are we doomed?!! These are all variations on several questions I've been receiving, so let me clear up some of these, and hopefully allay the concerns of a few people. As comets travel through space they leave behind themselves a huge trail of tiny dust that can be millions of miles long. Our solar system was already full of them and now, thanks to ISON, it has another one. Now, I have not actually seen any professionally made orbit simulations but, from what I understand, there's a chance that in mid-January of 2014, Earth might pass through, or close to, part of comet ISON's dust trail. So, time to panic? NO! And here are three good reasons why: * Reason #1: Any dust that was released from comet ISON will be tiny. We're talking about sand-grains here. And what happens when a sand-grain sized rock hits Earth's atmosphere? It burns up at extremely high altitude, and we get to see a shooting star in the sky! How many will we see? Well that brings me nicely to... * Reason #2: Space is B-I-G and empty, and so are comet tails. If you were a typical dust grain in a comet's tail, within a few hours of being released you would be well separated from your sibling dust grains and within a few days, you may find yourself hundreds or even thousands of miles from your nearest neighbor. When we talk about a region of space being dusty, we mean it's dusty as opposed to being a complete vacuous void. It's not dusty like an old abandoned warehouse, or one of those construction trucks that drops chunks on the highway that crack your windshield. Instead, think of ISON's tail like a stream of smoke. At the source it might be relatively dense, but very quickly it diffuses and becomes so thin that you can barely notice it. That's what we would have with any dust trail left behind ISON. Not only would the dust be tiny and harmless, there's very little of it! But if that isn't enough to convince you... * Reason #3: When was the last time Earth passed through the tail of a comet? A centuries years ago? A few years maybe? Nope. How about last weekend! That's right, we just had the annual Geminid meteor shower, and this year it was a pretty good show! The Geminids are believed to be the resulting trail from the asteroid comet space-rock 3200 Phaeton. If you check out Wikipedia you can find a complete list of meteor showers that Earth experiences, all of which are the result of passing through comet tails and debris trails in space. So the takeaway message here is that there's apparently a chance that in mid-January, Earth might encounter a handful of sand-grains that are substantially fewer in number than it encounters on one of a couple of dozen occasions throughout the year. Terrifying, right? OK, now on to the second part, which is much shorter. I've read concerns from folks who are worried that now ISON has fallen apart, there could be a whole load of comet chunks flying off in all directions. That's simply not true. Any larger (centimeter? meter?) chunks of rubble remaining from comet ISON will continue along in the same orbit that we knew the comet would follow - namely, harmlessly right out of the solar system. (That aforementioned dust trail I just talked about refers only to stuff that was released by ISON before it got vaporized.) We are safe, I promise! I just paid all my bills for the month. Believe me, if I thought the apocalypse was around the corner, I'd be sitting somewhere hot and sandy with a beer in my hand right now instead of blogging and reaching for another mug of mediocre coffee! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What up dudes n dudettes
Let's see. first, in June when the nurses got to me, I was found to have only 10% of lungs working. It was a toss-up if an ambulance could get here and back to Hosp before I died. Nurses voted to take me in their vanit was quicker by almost 5 minutes. Don't remember the next 3 days. now I'm on O2 maybe the rest of my life. July was spent on recovering from OLDmonuia. second, first week of Aug, pancreas enzimes levels went nuts (10 to 21 times normal) with 3 gall stones blocking exit had to have gall bladder removal surgery. They started Lapro, but cut an artery in half so changed to full blown open chest (10 inches) to find and stop blood flow. somehow the VA managed to loose a $6000 hearing aid, but they will replace it this coming Fri. with right and left new ones as hearing has deteriorated to just several % remaining in each ear. The new ones will be twice as powerful as the old ones were. Also in Aug, the a tornado chase mobile (light bar and all) died on the way to pick up new van. payments plus insurance has left me with the grand sum of $2.92 a month to eat on so now I hit the food bank every week. Other than all this good stuff going on, hows yall doing?? This is why I dropped off the grid. Pete __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Happened to Comet ISON?
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/04dec_isonrecap/ What Happened to Comet ISON? NASA Science News December 4, 2013 Astronomers have long known that some comets like it hot. Several of the greatest comets in history have flown close to the sun, puffing themselves up with solar heat, before they became naked-eye wonders in the night sky. Some comets like it hot, but Comet ISON was not one of them. The much-anticipated flyby of the sun by Comet ISON on Thanksgiving Day 2013 is over, and instead of becoming a Great Comet... Comet ISON fell apart, reports Karl Battams of NASA's Comet ISON Observing Campaign. The fading remains are now invisible to the human eye. At first glance this might seem like a negative result, but Battams says rather than mourn what we have lost, we should perhaps rejoice in what we have gained - some of the finest data in the history of cometary astronomy. On the morning of Nov. 28th, expectations were high as ISON neared perihelion, or closest approach to the sun. The icy comet already had a riotous tail 20 times wider than the full Moon and a head bright enough to see in the pre-dawn eye with the unaided eye. A dose of solar heat could transform this good comet into a great one. During the flyby, more than 32,000 people joined Battams and other solar scientists on a Google+ Hangout. Together they watched live images from a fleet of solar observatories including the twin STEREO probes, the Solar Dynamics Observatory, and SOHO. As Comet ISON approached the sun it brightened and faded again. That might have been the disintegration event, says Matthew Knight of NASA's Comet ISON Observing Campaign. Cameras onboard the Solar Dynamics Observatory followed the comet all the way down to perihelion and saw ... nothing. We weren't sure what was happening, recalls Knight. It was such a roller coaster of emotions. The researchers were surprised again when a fan-shaped cloud emerged from the sun's atmosphere. No one knows for sure what was inside. Possibilities include a remnant nucleus, too small for SDO to detect, or a rubble pile of furiously vaporizing fragments. By the end of the day, Comet ISON was nothing but a cloud of dust. It's disappointing that we didn't get a spectacular naked eye comet, says Knight, but in other ways I think Comet ISON was a huge success. The way people connected with Comet ISON via social media was phenomenal; our Comet ISON Observing Campaign website earned well over a million hits; and I had trouble downloading images near perihelion because NASA's servers were swamped. So maybe ISON was the 'Comet of the New Century,' he says. Battams agrees: The comet may be dead, but the observing campaign was incredibly successful. Since its discovery in Sept. 2012, Comet ISON has been observed by an armada of spacecraft, studied at wavelengths across the electromagnetic spectrum, and photographed by thousands of telescopes on Earth. For months at a time, uninterrupted, someone or some spacecraft had eyes on the comet as it fell from beyond the orbit of Jupiter to the doorstep of the sun itself. Nothing was missed. The two astronomers hope that the wealth of data will eventually allow them and their colleagues to unravel the mystery of exactly what happened to Comet ISON. This has unquestionably been the most extraordinary comet that Matthew and I, and likely many others, have ever witnessed, says Battams. The universe is an amazing place and it has just amazed us again. Credits: Author: Dr. Tony Phillips Production editor: Dr. Tony Phillips Credit: Science@NASA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Might Happen To Comet ISON From Here On Out?
http://www.isoncampaign.org/mmk/what-might-happen What might happen to Comet ISON from here on out? by Matthew This post was written with significant input from Dr. Carey Lisse NASA Comet ISON Observing Campaign November 5, 2013 November is here and Comet ISON is just a bit over three weeks from it closest approach to the Sun (astronomers call this perihelion). As we've said from the beginning, it is impossible to predict exactly what ISON will do. However, given numerous observations of previous comets, we do have a pretty good idea of the range of possible outcomes. Now that ISON has almost completed its journey from the Oort Cloud to within a million miles of the Sun's photosphere, it seems like a good time to go over what might happen. I've grouped the possible outcomes into three scenarios, discussed in chronological order for when we would observe them occur. It is important to note up front that no matter what happens, now that ISON has made it inside the Earth's orbit, any or all of these scenarios are scientifically exciting and we would learn a lot (although I'm clearly rooting for case 3)! Case 1: Disintegration well before perihelion The first scenario, which could theoretically happen at any time, is that ISON spontaneously disintegrates. A small fraction (less than 1%) of comets have disintegrated for no apparent reason, with C/1999 S4 LINEAR in 2000 (pictured at right) and C/2010 X1 Elenin in 2011 being two recent examples. Speculation about ISON's possible demise by disintegration has been around for months, and while these predictions have so far not come to pass, disintegration is probably far more likely during the next three weeks than it has been at any point up until now. As others have discussed, ISON's activity has not been increasing particularly quickly recently, and ISON is now reaching the region of space, within ~0.8 AU (1 AU, or astronomical unit, is the distance from the Earth to the Sun) of the Sun, where comets like 1999 S4 and Elenin disintegrated. If ISON does disintegrate in the next two weeks or so, we would likely see the central condensation get less distinct and eventually dissipate into nothing. Depending on the nature of the disintegration, the brightness of the inner coma might spike briefly then fade rapidly, or it might just gradually decrease in brightness. Since ISON is currently being observed by a tremendous variety of telescopes on Earth and around the solar system, this would be the best-observed case of cometary disruption in history and would likely contribute vast new information about how comets die. While it would be extremely disappointing to miss out on a potential naked-eye comet, the scientific return from a disintegration would be phenomenal as we will be able to learn a lot about how the comet is put together. This is particularly interesting because the formation and construction of comets is still one of the major mysteries concerning how the planets in the solar system were built. Case 2: Destruction near perihelion Assuming ISON survives the next few weeks in tact, it faces an even more daunting challenge: making it around the Sun. As you are no doubt aware, ISON will face extreme temperatures as it nears perihelion. At its closest point to the Sun, the equilibrium temperature approaches 5000 degrees Fahrenheit, hot enough to cause much of the dust and rock on ISON's surface and in its coma to vaporize. While it may seem incredible that anything can survive this inferno, the rate at which ISON will likely lose mass is relatively small compared to how big it likely is (think of how a large pile of snow can last for weeks after a snowfall, even when the outdoor temperature has gotten much warmer than freezing). Furthermore, because it is moving very fast, about 400 km/sec at perihelion, it will not spend very long at such extreme temperatures. Assuming that ISON is bigger than about 200 meters in radius (current estimates suggest it is 500-2000 m in radius), it will likely survive mass loss due to sublimation of ices alone. Unfortunately for ISON, it faces a double whammy from its proximity to the Sun: even if it survives the rapid vaporization of its exterior, it gets so close to the Sun that the Sun's gravity might actually pull it apart! I discussed this in more detail in a previous post, but simulations found that ISON is more likely to survive than be pulled apart, although there is a very real chance that it could be pulled apart by these tidal forces. If ISON is destroyed within a few hours to days of its close approach to the Sun, the most likely cause will be the temperature and gravitational stresses of the near-Sun environment. However, spontaneous disintegration (Case 1) could still be the culprit, it would just be hard to prove. In any event, if ISON meets it demise before its close approach to the Sun, it will likely be among the most spectacular
Re: [meteorite-list] What Don't Your Meteorite Pictures Tell Us
Programmers and I.T. personnel call this violation of rights Electronic DNA or ED for short. A new vehicle's computer collects more ED (information) about your driving habits than a flight recorder does in a Boeing 747. Wait until the Department of Licensing requires an Electronic DNA download from your car's computer in order for you to keep your driving privileges. Insurance companies (Mainly Progressive) already have a modified flash drive that can be plugged right into your car and the data recovered will tell them what kind of driver you are so that they can adjust their rates to your driving skills. As far as the meteorite hunter goes. Many depend on Electronic DNA collecting devices like cell phones, car computers, home computers, GPS, FM communications with built-in ID tags and of course, their trusty new vehicles. Do not conform and your Electronic DNA trail will be in place to hasten your conviction. It will not be long before the ED collecting devices will be there to testify against you if you are a nonconformist, excuse me I meant to say a normal person with a normal life who detests this invasion of privacy. Adam - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 7:24 PM Subject: What Don't Your Meteorite Pictures Tell Us Unfortunately, some less-informed people unaware of our passsion for meteorites are oblivious to the changing encroachment from government (wow that's an oxymoron) that Adam's recent post speaks to, that privacy breech affecting all of us already, with more to come. Most of you know me (sort of) as Richard Montgomery, and I have a shortened alias on FB as Rick Bob which I have no doubt is already triangulated. Hi Bam, here's an unapproving wave at you...can you see me??? Duh. Okay, yes. Meanwhile, this is reality. [CrapI'm now reviewing my words for my life Has it really come to this??? YES!] Fortunately I have a strong resolve, a stellar knowledge of the US Constitution, a rigid backbone, a garden, worthy truck that can take me anywhere for now, and the rest is what it is. This List is about meteorites. Adam's post is too. All is a worthy discussion, regardless of which side of the political isle we live in. (Art, I understand your position, and agree to your worthy decision to stop any political discourse that morphs from here forward when it wavers.) It will be a crappy day when we all take cover from freely talking about meteorites. - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What Your Meteorite Pictures Might Tell AboutYou Yep, a law enforcement or U.S. government servant's best friends are your cell phone, digital camera, online social profile and even your vehicle. All provide them with valuable data that can be used to win future elections or convictions. According to some of my friends in the know, it will not be long before your entire electronic profile is permanently stored on government computers now that they have the capacity to do so. Just remember this when you snap a picture of the latest meteorite find on BLM land and the Department of Interior comes after you for removing that 10.1 pound Lunar meteorite and selling it on eBay. If you are in a rental car, they will know that it has been taken off-road and fine you $500.00 for doing so since your rental agreement does not allow that beautiful fully loaded 4 wheel drive rig to be used for what it was designed for. You will provide them with more evidence with the images you post online which are now permanently attached to your electronic social profile. Many are sorry that they traded in their old capable cars with no built-in data reporting systems for a new vehicle that will record everything and report it to the thousands of data collection centers, batch the data and forward it to the proper authorities. The Cash for Clunkers Program was a success from a governmental standpoint now that millions of drivers can now be continually monitored in their new shiny rides. Try disabling one of these devices and it will render your vehicle useless and snitch you out the first chance it gets. Give me an old Jeep, a dumb camera and I will leave my Android cell phone at home. Big brother has arrived! Adam From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:00 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What Your Meteorite Pictures Might Tell About You People, who take pictures, might not realize that smartphones, digital cameras often record all sorts data about how, when, and even where in some cases a picture was taken. Many cameras
[meteorite-list] What Don't Your Meteorite Pictures Tell Us
Unfortunately, some less-informed people unaware of our passsion for meteorites are oblivious to the changing encroachment from government (wow that's an oxymoron) that Adam's recent post speaks to, that privacy breech affecting all of us already, with more to come. Most of you know me (sort of) as Richard Montgomery, and I have a shortened alias on FB as Rick Bob which I have no doubt is already triangulated. Hi Bam, here's an unapproving wave at you...can you see me??? Duh. Okay, yes. Meanwhile, this is reality. [CrapI'm now reviewing my words for my life Has it really come to this??? YES!] Fortunately I have a strong resolve, a stellar knowledge of the US Constitution, a rigid backbone, a garden, worthy truck that can take me anywhere for now, and the rest is what it is. This List is about meteorites. Adam's post is too. All is a worthy discussion, regardless of which side of the political isle we live in. (Art, I understand your position, and agree to your worthy decision to stop any political discourse that morphs from here forward when it wavers.) It will be a crappy day when we all take cover from freely talking about meteorites. - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What Your Meteorite Pictures Might Tell AboutYou Yep, a law enforcement or U.S. government servant's best friends are your cell phone, digital camera, online social profile and even your vehicle. All provide them with valuable data that can be used to win future elections or convictions. According to some of my friends in the know, it will not be long before your entire electronic profile is permanently stored on government computers now that they have the capacity to do so. Just remember this when you snap a picture of the latest meteorite find on BLM land and the Department of Interior comes after you for removing that 10.1 pound Lunar meteorite and selling it on eBay. If you are in a rental car, they will know that it has been taken off-road and fine you $500.00 for doing so since your rental agreement does not allow that beautiful fully loaded 4 wheel drive rig to be used for what it was designed for. You will provide them with more evidence with the images you post online which are now permanently attached to your electronic social profile. Many are sorry that they traded in their old capable cars with no built-in data reporting systems for a new vehicle that will record everything and report it to the thousands of data collection centers, batch the data and forward it to the proper authorities. The Cash for Clunkers Program was a success from a governmental standpoint now that millions of drivers can now be continually monitored in their new shiny rides. Try disabling one of these devices and it will render your vehicle useless and snitch you out the first chance it gets. Give me an old Jeep, a dumb camera and I will leave my Android cell phone at home. Big brother has arrived! Adam From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:00 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What Your Meteorite Pictures Might Tell About You People, who take pictures, might not realize that smartphones, digital cameras often record all sorts data about how, when, and even where in some cases a picture was taken. Many cameras record this information as meta-data that is embedded in image files in a digital format called Exif Metadata as discussed in: Tools for Managing EXIF Data of your Images http://www.labnol.org/software/exif-data-editors/14210/ Exchangeable image file format http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format Also, the EXIF Data might record when and how it was modified depending on the software used. If you want to see want image data is embedded in yours or another person's picture, there are various Exif Viewers, both online and available as software that can be used to extract this data. Even if you are not interested in this data, there are people and companies that are examining the pictures that you and other people posted to the Internet using it for their own purposes. If you have a smart phone or camera with a built-in GPS, it is scary what people can find out you and where you have been. Some online Exif Viewers are: 1. ExifViewer.org - http://www.exifviewer.org/ 2. Jeffrey's Exif viewer - http://regex.info/exif.cgi Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
[meteorite-list] What Your Meteorite Pictures Might Tell About You
People, who take pictures, might not realize that smartphones, digital cameras often record all sorts data about how, when, and even where in some cases a picture was taken. Many cameras record this information as meta-data that is embedded in image files in a digital format called Exif Metadata as discussed in: Tools for Managing EXIF Data of your Images http://www.labnol.org/software/exif-data-editors/14210/ Exchangeable image file format http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format Also, the EXIF Data might record when and how it was modified depending on the software used. If you want to see want image data is embedded in yours or another person's picture, there are various Exif Viewers, both online and available as software that can be used to extract this data. Even if you are not interested in this data, there are people and companies that are examining the pictures that you and other people posted to the Internet using it for their own purposes. If you have a smart phone or camera with a built-in GPS, it is scary what people can find out you and where you have been. Some online Exif Viewers are: 1. ExifViewer.org - http://www.exifviewer.org/ 2. Jeffrey's Exif viewer - http://regex.info/exif.cgi Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What Your Meteorite Pictures Might Tell About You
Yep, a law enforcement or U.S. government servant's best friends are your cell phone, digital camera, online social profile and even your vehicle. All provide them with valuable data that can be used to win future elections or convictions. According to some of my friends in the know, it will not be long before your entire electronic profile is permanently stored on government computers now that they have the capacity to do so. Just remember this when you snap a picture of the latest meteorite find on BLM land and the Department of Interior comes after you for removing that 10.1 pound Lunar meteorite and selling it on eBay. If you are in a rental car, they will know that it has been taken off-road and fine you $500.00 for doing so since your rental agreement does not allow that beautiful fully loaded 4 wheel drive rig to be used for what it was designed for. You will provide them with more evidence with the images you post online which are now permanently attached to your electronic social profile. Many are sorry that they traded in their old capable cars with no built-in data reporting systems for a new vehicle that will record everything and report it to the thousands of data collection centers, batch the data and forward it to the proper authorities. The Cash for Clunkers Program was a success from a governmental standpoint now that millions of drivers can now be continually monitored in their new shiny rides. Try disabling one of these devices and it will render your vehicle useless and snitch you out the first chance it gets. Give me an old Jeep, a dumb camera and I will leave my Android cell phone at home. Big brother has arrived! Adam From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:00 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What Your Meteorite Pictures Might Tell About You People, who take pictures, might not realize that smartphones, digital cameras often record all sorts data about how, when, and even where in some cases a picture was taken. Many cameras record this information as meta-data that is embedded in image files in a digital format called Exif Metadata as discussed in: Tools for Managing EXIF Data of your Images http://www.labnol.org/software/exif-data-editors/14210/ Exchangeable image file format http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format Also, the EXIF Data might record when and how it was modified depending on the software used. If you want to see want image data is embedded in yours or another person's picture, there are various Exif Viewers, both online and available as software that can be used to extract this data. Even if you are not interested in this data, there are people and companies that are examining the pictures that you and other people posted to the Internet using it for their own purposes. If you have a smart phone or camera with a built-in GPS, it is scary what people can find out you and where you have been. Some online Exif Viewers are: 1. ExifViewer.org - http://www.exifviewer.org/ 2. Jeffrey's Exif viewer - http://regex.info/exif.cgi Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
Not buying it, at least not at face value. Quite literally doesn't add up. It would have to survive at least another five orbits after Mir broke up. And it would have been a very light piece. That's five orbits AFTER its OBSERVED reentry! My simulation puts it within a few kilometers altitude of the US Army's tracking on Kwajalein Atoll, so I figure I can't be too far off, this is what the final track + 4 more orbits would have looked like. Even in that last orbit, it would have to be pretty perturbed to make it there! My atmospheric interface is based on archived data, but out there, the data isn't fantastic -- hence the probable reason I'm at 128km vs the actual 120km significant interface, and why I'm at 93km when the US Army's observation is at 90km. If you told me it was found in Fiji, Australia, New Zealand - I'd probably take a closer look at it. East Coast of the US? Psh. No. Here's my reentry model + 4 orbits http://spaceballoon.org/mir-reentry.png --- Jodie Sunday, June 16, 2013, 9:39:41 PM, you wrote: Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-from-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Best regards, Jodiemailto:spacero...@spaceballoon.org __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
Cool. Its a standard textbook like slag. Here in germany at some locations are thousands of such pieces in all sizes and colors from brown to green in all intensitys (until almost pure blackness, often bluish due microinclusions). How stupid must someone be to put such a thing into the news as space rock? Alexander - Original Nachricht Von: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Datum: 17.06.2013 06:39 Betreff: [meteorite-list] What is this? Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-f rom-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
I doubt any rocks were aboard the Mir space station:) So regardless of where it came down the whole story is idiotic. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 16, 2013, at 11:50 PM, Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org wrote: Not buying it, at least not at face value. Quite literally doesn't add up. It would have to survive at least another five orbits after Mir broke up. And it would have been a very light piece. That's five orbits AFTER its OBSERVED reentry! My simulation puts it within a few kilometers altitude of the US Army's tracking on Kwajalein Atoll, so I figure I can't be too far off, this is what the final track + 4 more orbits would have looked like. Even in that last orbit, it would have to be pretty perturbed to make it there! My atmospheric interface is based on archived data, but out there, the data isn't fantastic -- hence the probable reason I'm at 128km vs the actual 120km significant interface, and why I'm at 93km when the US Army's observation is at 90km. If you told me it was found in Fiji, Australia, New Zealand - I'd probably take a closer look at it. East Coast of the US? Psh. No. Here's my reentry model + 4 orbits http://spaceballoon.org/mir-reentry.png --- Jodie Sunday, June 16, 2013, 9:39:41 PM, you wrote: Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-from-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Best regards, Jodiemailto:spacero...@spaceballoon.org __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
Right. I wonder who the NASA scientist is, about whom the owner of the stone talked or whether he exists or not. Seems to be some kind of new trend to let someone from the NASA verify unknown things. Maybe i should bring my old coins from flea market to one of the cooks from a NASA cantine to let him verify that these are from a antique romanian space capsule and thus worth alot. Then i tell i have verified it at NASA and they will sell well. Alexander - Original Nachricht Von: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com An: Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org Datum: 17.06.2013 14:57 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What is this? I doubt any rocks were aboard the Mir space station:) So regardless of where it came down the whole story is idiotic. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 16, 2013, at 11:50 PM, Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org wrote: Not buying it, at least not at face value. Quite literally doesn't add up. It would have to survive at least another five orbits after Mir broke up. And it would have been a very light piece. That's five orbits AFTER its OBSERVED reentry! My simulation puts it within a few kilometers altitude of the US Army's tracking on Kwajalein Atoll, so I figure I can't be too far off, this is what the final track + 4 more orbits would have looked like. Even in that last orbit, it would have to be pretty perturbed to make it there! My atmospheric interface is based on archived data, but out there, the data isn't fantastic -- hence the probable reason I'm at 128km vs the actual 120km significant interface, and why I'm at 93km when the US Army's observation is at 90km. If you told me it was found in Fiji, Australia, New Zealand - I'd probably take a closer look at it. East Coast of the US? Psh. No. Here's my reentry model + 4 orbits http://spaceballoon.org/mir-reentry.png --- Jodie Sunday, June 16, 2013, 9:39:41 PM, you wrote: Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-f rom-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Best regards, Jodiemailto:spacero...@spaceballoon.org __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
I've been getting photos from Iran of all kinds of crap, nothing even close to meteorite, and he keeps saying NASA is buying them all but I can counter offer:) Somehow I doubt anyone at NASA has seen these things. It is just the new name-dropping to try and sell. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 17, 2013, at 7:07 AM, plagiok...@arcor.de wrote: Right. I wonder who the NASA scientist is, about whom the owner of the stone talked or whether he exists or not. Seems to be some kind of new trend to let someone from the NASA verify unknown things. Maybe i should bring my old coins from flea market to one of the cooks from a NASA cantine to let him verify that these are from a antique romanian space capsule and thus worth alot. Then i tell i have verified it at NASA and they will sell well. Alexander - Original Nachricht Von: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com An: Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org Datum: 17.06.2013 14:57 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What is this? I doubt any rocks were aboard the Mir space station:) So regardless of where it came down the whole story is idiotic. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 16, 2013, at 11:50 PM, Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org wrote: Not buying it, at least not at face value. Quite literally doesn't add up. It would have to survive at least another five orbits after Mir broke up. And it would have been a very light piece. That's five orbits AFTER its OBSERVED reentry! My simulation puts it within a few kilometers altitude of the US Army's tracking on Kwajalein Atoll, so I figure I can't be too far off, this is what the final track + 4 more orbits would have looked like. Even in that last orbit, it would have to be pretty perturbed to make it there! My atmospheric interface is based on archived data, but out there, the data isn't fantastic -- hence the probable reason I'm at 128km vs the actual 120km significant interface, and why I'm at 93km when the US Army's observation is at 90km. If you told me it was found in Fiji, Australia, New Zealand - I'd probably take a closer look at it. East Coast of the US? Psh. No. Here's my reentry model + 4 orbits http://spaceballoon.org/mir-reentry.png --- Jodie Sunday, June 16, 2013, 9:39:41 PM, you wrote: Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-f rom-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Best regards, Jodiemailto:spacero...@spaceballoon.org __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
Sales of all space-station rock slags are hereby suspended until further notice -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone Blog - http://www.galactic-stone.com/blog - On 6/17/13, plagiok...@arcor.de plagiok...@arcor.de wrote: Right. I wonder who the NASA scientist is, about whom the owner of the stone talked or whether he exists or not. Seems to be some kind of new trend to let someone from the NASA verify unknown things. Maybe i should bring my old coins from flea market to one of the cooks from a NASA cantine to let him verify that these are from a antique romanian space capsule and thus worth alot. Then i tell i have verified it at NASA and they will sell well. Alexander - Original Nachricht Von: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com An: Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org Datum: 17.06.2013 14:57 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What is this? I doubt any rocks were aboard the Mir space station:) So regardless of where it came down the whole story is idiotic. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 16, 2013, at 11:50 PM, Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org wrote: Not buying it, at least not at face value. Quite literally doesn't add up. It would have to survive at least another five orbits after Mir broke up. And it would have been a very light piece. That's five orbits AFTER its OBSERVED reentry! My simulation puts it within a few kilometers altitude of the US Army's tracking on Kwajalein Atoll, so I figure I can't be too far off, this is what the final track + 4 more orbits would have looked like. Even in that last orbit, it would have to be pretty perturbed to make it there! My atmospheric interface is based on archived data, but out there, the data isn't fantastic -- hence the probable reason I'm at 128km vs the actual 120km significant interface, and why I'm at 93km when the US Army's observation is at 90km. If you told me it was found in Fiji, Australia, New Zealand - I'd probably take a closer look at it. East Coast of the US? Psh. No. Here's my reentry model + 4 orbits http://spaceballoon.org/mir-reentry.png --- Jodie Sunday, June 16, 2013, 9:39:41 PM, you wrote: Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-f rom-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Best regards, Jodiemailto:spacero...@spaceballoon.org __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
In fact, for this to be part of the MIR Space Station, it would have taken a MIR-acle... Ed ;-) - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What is this? I doubt any rocks were aboard the Mir space station:) So regardless of where it came down the whole story is idiotic. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 16, 2013, at 11:50 PM, Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org wrote: Not buying it, at least not at face value. Quite literally doesn't add up. It would have to survive at least another five orbits after Mir broke up. And it would have been a very light piece. That's five orbits AFTER its OBSERVED reentry! My simulation puts it within a few kilometers altitude of the US Army's tracking on Kwajalein Atoll, so I figure I can't be too far off, this is what the final track + 4 more orbits would have looked like. Even in that last orbit, it would have to be pretty perturbed to make it there! My atmospheric interface is based on archived data, but out there, the data isn't fantastic -- hence the probable reason I'm at 128km vs the actual 120km significant interface, and why I'm at 93km when the US Army's observation is at 90km. If you told me it was found in Fiji, Australia, New Zealand - I'd probably take a closer look at it. East Coast of the US? Psh. No. Here's my reentry model + 4 orbits http://spaceballoon.org/mir-reentry.png --- Jodie Sunday, June 16, 2013, 9:39:41 PM, you wrote: Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-from-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Best regards, Jodiemailto:spacero...@spaceballoon.org __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What is this?
Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-from-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
That was good for a laugh. Looks like a piece of MIR-de to me. From the glances I saw, it is at best a tektite, maybe obsidian. Definitely something that should be left under the tree where it was stored. Mendy Ouzillou On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:39 PM, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-from-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
Good grief! What idiot journalist would write such an article? Mir landed in South Pacific yet a piece landed in Massachusetts? And it looks like a rock? Wow. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:39 PM, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hi List, There is something about this object that doesn't seem to add up. The claim is that it is a piece of an old Mir space station. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/14/rock-found-in-amesbury-backyard-came-from-space-station/ Comments? Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
Hi Count and the List, Obvious Vesicles and Conchoidal fractures and a vitreous overall appearance - makes this a very unlikely candidate for re-entered space junk. Also the line most of MIR re-entered over the Indian Ocean, but this piece made it to the USA - very fishy. I think this is in the category of cool rock, but very unlikely to be space junk, let alone specifically part of the MIR space station. With Best Regards, Pat __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT
Hi Paul, Raspberry Tony (Himbeertoni) is a jesting and cuss word of the Austro-Bavarian language. The etymology is absolutely unclear, neither old references are found. Schmeller's Bavarian dictionary of 1827 doesn't know him yet. A Raspberry Tony is a person of very limited intellect, that is so excessively good-natured, that he put up with everything and is easy to short-change. There are in my opinion three possibilities of the origin: Either it's a literary character (of a forgotten piece), or it's the characterization by profession - somebody who is of such an imbecility, that he can earn his living only by collecting and selling raspberries, or it's a humorous derivation from the Strawberry George (often appearing as the boon companion of the Raspberry Tony). The Strawberry George in turn is a mishearing of the archbishop, In German Erzbischof which sounds similar to Erbeerschorsch. (Erdbeer(e) (Groundberry) is the Strawberry, Schorsch is the Bavarian form of George). Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Paul Gessler Gesendet: Sonntag, 2. Juni 2013 06:04 An: meteorite-list Betreff: [meteorite-list] what is a... Can someone please tell me what a Raspberry Tony is? Thanx Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT
Looks originally like that, somehow - with a quite hedonistic touch though ... http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash4/s160x160/404057_487324287958899_480624486_a.jpg - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT Hi Paul, Raspberry Tony (Himbeertoni) is a jesting and cuss word of the Austro-Bavarian language. The etymology is absolutely unclear, neither old references are found. Schmeller's Bavarian dictionary of 1827 doesn't know him yet. A Raspberry Tony is a person of very limited intellect, that is so excessively good-natured, that he put up with everything and is easy to short-change. There are in my opinion three possibilities of the origin: Either it's a literary character (of a forgotten piece), or it's the characterization by profession - somebody who is of such an imbecility, that he can earn his living only by collecting and selling raspberries, or it's a humorous derivation from the Strawberry George (often appearing as the boon companion of the Raspberry Tony). The Strawberry George in turn is a mishearing of the archbishop, In German Erzbischof which sounds similar to Erbeerschorsch. (Erdbeer(e) (Groundberry) is the Strawberry, Schorsch is the Bavarian form of George). Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Paul Gessler Gesendet: Sonntag, 2. Juni 2013 06:04 An: meteorite-list Betreff: [meteorite-list] what is a... Can someone please tell me what a Raspberry Tony is? Thanx Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT
Amazing long and perfect description of A long forgotten word. Sadly you seem not to have the time to answer a couple of simple questions regarding the non-meteorite you sold me. I took it to a meteorite club meeting yesterday for many people to enjoy, 100% agree it is not even a meteorite. Can you use that amazing power of gab you have Martin, and simply let us know how you decided to make me your Raspberry Toni? You never answered one question asked you about the fake meteorite, fake labels, fake Murchison. You only made references to me carrying around baggies of meteorites in the old days (not sure what that has to do with receipt of a fake meteorite from you). Sorry, I wasn't born a millionaire and had to work to make myself one. It took some time. You make reference to a mistake I made in clearly shipping the wrong specimen some years ago, again sorted out and quickly corrected without character attack on the victim by me, mistake admitted and rectified easily. You refuse to even acknowledge that sending fake produced plastic label is FRUAD when your add clearly states that they are real AML pieces. I just wanted some answers to these questions, instead got a rambling bunch of nonsense that does nothing but divert and dilute from the bottom line of suspect or outright fake meteorite sold to me by you. If you would simply put all that energy to letting me know how such imitations were able to pass your very experiences hands, this would already be forgotten. Instead all I got is how wrong and stupid I am compared to you, you are of course always right because this came from some old Romanian collection? Well, since Romania is well known as the Nigeria of Europe for scams, I guess this could also be a Romanian scam meteorite. Sorry, this Rapsberry Toni is offended, and angry at receipt of a fake piece of garbage. Perhaps I'll send it up to ASU for lab work to see what exactly you sold me. They have Estherville from Nininger as well. Michael Farmer On Jun 2, 2013, at 4:48 AM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Paul, Raspberry Tony (Himbeertoni) is a jesting and cuss word of the Austro-Bavarian language. The etymology is absolutely unclear, neither old references are found. Schmeller's Bavarian dictionary of 1827 doesn't know him yet. A Raspberry Tony is a person of very limited intellect, that is so excessively good-natured, that he put up with everything and is easy to short-change. There are in my opinion three possibilities of the origin: Either it's a literary character (of a forgotten piece), or it's the characterization by profession - somebody who is of such an imbecility, that he can earn his living only by collecting and selling raspberries, or it's a humorous derivation from the Strawberry George (often appearing as the boon companion of the Raspberry Tony). The Strawberry George in turn is a mishearing of the archbishop, In German Erzbischof which sounds similar to Erbeerschorsch. (Erdbeer(e) (Groundberry) is the Strawberry, Schorsch is the Bavarian form of George). Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Paul Gessler Gesendet: Sonntag, 2. Juni 2013 06:04 An: meteorite-list Betreff: [meteorite-list] what is a... Can someone please tell me what a Raspberry Tony is? Thanx Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT
Raspberry Tony sounds like a good definition for an invasive species that ruins it for honest species trying to eek out a living. Maybe in this case, we should call it an evasive species since we are not getting straight answers. It reminds me of an invasive species called a Quagga Mussel (small clams) living here in Lake Mojave. They clog up pipes, ruin boat motors and are just plain bad news. They feel they are entitled to live in our lakes for free and cause destruction even though they were not invited. They have even been known to piggy back off one another: a filthy trait they are well-know for. Next these clams will be demanding entitlements, continue to self-pair and substitute garbage for the real thing; All in the name of making more clams!. Definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quagga_mussel Pure stupidity and greed. ... and for some reason, we all put up with it and what cost? The undermining of collector confidence. Adam From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT Amazing long and perfect description of A long forgotten word. Sadly you seem not to have the time to answer a couple of simple questions regarding the non-meteorite you sold me. I took it to a meteorite club meeting yesterday for many people to enjoy, 100% agree it is not even a meteorite. Can you use that amazing power of gab you have Martin, and simply let us know how you decided to make me your Raspberry Toni? You never answered one question asked you about the fake meteorite, fake labels, fake Murchison. You only made references to me carrying around baggies of meteorites in the old days (not sure what that has to do with receipt of a fake meteorite from you). Sorry, I wasn't born a millionaire and had to work to make myself one. It took some time. You make reference to a mistake I made in clearly shipping the wrong specimen some years ago, again sorted out and quickly corrected without character attack on the victim by me, mistake admitted and rectified easily. You refuse to even acknowledge that sending fake produced plastic label is FRUAD when your add clearly states that they are real AML pieces. I just wanted some answers to these questions, instead got a rambling bunch of nonsense that does nothing but divert and dilute from the bottom line of suspect or outright fake meteorite sold to me by you. If you would simply put all that energy to letting me know how such imitations were able to pass your very experiences hands, this would already be forgotten. Instead all I got is how wrong and stupid I am compared to you, you are of course always right because this came from some old Romanian collection? Well, since Romania is well known as the Nigeria of Europe for scams, I guess this could also be a Romanian scam meteorite. Sorry, this Rapsberry Toni is offended, and angry at receipt of a fake piece of garbage. Perhaps I'll send it up to ASU for lab work to see what exactly you sold me. They have Estherville from Nininger as well. Michael Farmer On Jun 2, 2013, at 4:48 AM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Paul, Raspberry Tony (Himbeertoni) is a jesting and cuss word of the Austro-Bavarian language. The etymology is absolutely unclear, neither old references are found. Schmeller's Bavarian dictionary of 1827 doesn't know him yet. A Raspberry Tony is a person of very limited intellect, that is so excessively good-natured, that he put up with everything and is easy to short-change. There are in my opinion three possibilities of the origin: Either it's a literary character (of a forgotten piece), or it's the characterization by profession - somebody who is of such an imbecility, that he can earn his living only by collecting and selling raspberries, or it's a humorous derivation from the Strawberry George (often appearing as the boon companion of the Raspberry Tony). The Strawberry George in turn is a mishearing of the archbishop, In German Erzbischof which sounds similar to Erbeerschorsch. (Erdbeer(e) (Groundberry) is the Strawberry, Schorsch is the Bavarian form of George). Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Paul Gessler Gesendet: Sonntag, 2. Juni 2013 06:04 An: meteorite-list Betreff: [meteorite-list] what is a... Can someone please tell me what a Raspberry Tony is? Thanx Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT
I thought maybe it was like the ultimate wedgie! Cheers! Jim Wooddell Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Paul, Raspberry Tony (Himbeertoni) is a jesting and cuss word of the Austro-Bavarian language. The etymology is absolutely unclear, neither old references are found. Schmeller's Bavarian dictionary of 1827 doesn't know him yet. A Raspberry Tony is a person of very limited intellect, that is so excessively good-natured, that he put up with everything and is easy to short-change. There are in my opinion three possibilities of the origin: Either it's a literary character (of a forgotten piece), or it's the characterization by profession - somebody who is of such an imbecility, that he can earn his living only by collecting and selling raspberries, or it's a humorous derivation from the Strawberry George (often appearing as the boon companion of the Raspberry Tony). The Strawberry George in turn is a mishearing of the archbishop, In German Erzbischof which sounds similar to Erbeerschorsch. (Erdbeer(e) (Groundberry) is the Strawberry, Schorsch is the Bavarian form of George). Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Paul Gessler Gesendet: Sonntag, 2. Juni 2013 06:04 An: meteorite-list Betreff: [meteorite-list] what is a... Can someone please tell me what a Raspberry Tony is? Thanx Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT
Hi Adam, what do you want. The Bondoc and Murchi is here with us and contemporary suspended from sale, Farmer brings back the Estherville and will get his refund, and then we will test it. Therefore the witch-hunt is paused for 3 weeks+ until after Ensisheim. (and Art can close that topic until then). Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Adam Hupe Gesendet: Sonntag, 2. Juni 2013 16:48 An: Adam Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT Raspberry Tony sounds like a good definition for an invasive species that ruins it for honest species trying to eek out a living. Maybe in this case, we should call it an evasive species since we are not getting straight answers. It reminds me of an invasive species called a Quagga Mussel (small clams) living here in Lake Mojave. They clog up pipes, ruin boat motors and are just plain bad news. They feel they are entitled to live in our lakes for free and cause destruction even though they were not invited. They have even been known to piggy back off one another: a filthy trait they are well-know for. Next these clams will be demanding entitlements, continue to self-pair and substitute garbage for the real thing; All in the name of making more clams!. Definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quagga_mussel Pure stupidity and greed. ... and for some reason, we all put up with it and what cost? The undermining of collector confidence. Adam From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT Amazing long and perfect description of A long forgotten word. Sadly you seem not to have the time to answer a couple of simple questions regarding the non-meteorite you sold me. I took it to a meteorite club meeting yesterday for many people to enjoy, 100% agree it is not even a meteorite. Can you use that amazing power of gab you have Martin, and simply let us know how you decided to make me your Raspberry Toni? You never answered one question asked you about the fake meteorite, fake labels, fake Murchison. You only made references to me carrying around baggies of meteorites in the old days (not sure what that has to do with receipt of a fake meteorite from you). Sorry, I wasn't born a millionaire and had to work to make myself one. It took some time. You make reference to a mistake I made in clearly shipping the wrong specimen some years ago, again sorted out and quickly corrected without character attack on the victim by me, mistake admitted and rectified easily. You refuse to even acknowledge that sending fake produced plastic label is FRUAD when your add clearly states that they are real AML pieces. I just wanted some answers to these questions, instead got a rambling bunch of nonsense that does nothing but divert and dilute from the bottom line of suspect or outright fake meteorite sold to me by you. If you would simply put all that energy to letting me know how such imitations were able to pass your very experiences hands, this would already be forgotten. Instead all I got is how wrong and stupid I am compared to you, you are of course always right because this came from some old Romanian collection? Well, since Romania is well known as the Nigeria of Europe for scams, I guess this could also be a Romanian scam meteorite. Sorry, this Rapsberry Toni is offended, and angry at receipt of a fake piece of garbage. Perhaps I'll send it up to ASU for lab work to see what exactly you sold me. They have Estherville from Nininger as well. Michael Farmer On Jun 2, 2013, at 4:48 AM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Paul, Raspberry Tony (Himbeertoni) is a jesting and cuss word of the Austro-Bavarian language. The etymology is absolutely unclear, neither old references are found. Schmeller's Bavarian dictionary of 1827 doesn't know him yet. A Raspberry Tony is a person of very limited intellect, that is so excessively good-natured, that he put up with everything and is easy to short-change. There are in my opinion three possibilities of the origin: Either it's a literary character (of a forgotten piece), or it's the characterization by profession - somebody who is of such an imbecility, that he can earn his living only by collecting and selling raspberries, or it's a humorous derivation from the Strawberry George (often appearing as the boon companion of the Raspberry Tony). The Strawberry George in turn is a mishearing of the archbishop, In German Erzbischof which sounds similar to Erbeerschorsch. (Erdbeer(e) (Groundberry) is the Strawberry, Schorsch is the Bavarian form of George). Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite
Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT
I do not want to get into a flame war here, only express my opinion. I am disgusted by what I have been witnessing. Using AML labels to promote obviously wrong material is sacrilege as far as I am concerned. Although I do not normally rush to conclusions based on images only, these examples are an insult to even the least seasoned collector who can tell the difference. The father of modern meteoritics would be hugely disappointed that somebody is using his good name to promote fake material! I am pretty much just a footnote in the history of meteorites and I know how upset I get when somebody tries to fake one of my labels, piggy-backs or self-pairs to material I have passionately worked on. Adam - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT Hi Adam, what do you want. The Bondoc and Murchi is here with us and contemporary suspended from sale, Farmer brings back the Estherville and will get his refund, and then we will test it. Therefore the witch-hunt is paused for 3 weeks+ until after Ensisheim. (and Art can close that topic until then). Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Adam Hupe Gesendet: Sonntag, 2. Juni 2013 16:48 An: Adam Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT Raspberry Tony sounds like a good definition for an invasive species that ruins it for honest species trying to eek out a living. Maybe in this case, we should call it an evasive species since we are not getting straight answers. It reminds me of an invasive species called a Quagga Mussel (small clams) living here in Lake Mojave. They clog up pipes, ruin boat motors and are just plain bad news. They feel they are entitled to live in our lakes for free and cause destruction even though they were not invited. They have even been known to piggy back off one another: a filthy trait they are well-know for. Next these clams will be demanding entitlements, continue to self-pair and substitute garbage for the real thing; All in the name of making more clams!. Definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quagga_mussel Pure stupidity and greed. ... and for some reason, we all put up with it and what cost? The undermining of collector confidence. Adam From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT Amazing long and perfect description of A long forgotten word. Sadly you seem not to have the time to answer a couple of simple questions regarding the non-meteorite you sold me. I took it to a meteorite club meeting yesterday for many people to enjoy, 100% agree it is not even a meteorite. Can you use that amazing power of gab you have Martin, and simply let us know how you decided to make me your Raspberry Toni? You never answered one question asked you about the fake meteorite, fake labels, fake Murchison. You only made references to me carrying around baggies of meteorites in the old days (not sure what that has to do with receipt of a fake meteorite from you). Sorry, I wasn't born a millionaire and had to work to make myself one. It took some time. You make reference to a mistake I made in clearly shipping the wrong specimen some years ago, again sorted out and quickly corrected without character attack on the victim by me, mistake admitted and rectified easily. You refuse to even acknowledge that sending fake produced plastic label is FRUAD when your add clearly states that they are real AML pieces. I just wanted some answers to these questions, instead got a rambling bunch of nonsense that does nothing but divert and dilute from the bottom line of suspect or outright fake meteorite sold to me by you. If you would simply put all that energy to letting me know how such imitations were able to pass your very experiences hands, this would already be forgotten. Instead all I got is how wrong and stupid I am compared to you, you are of course always right because this came from some old Romanian collection? Well, since Romania is well known as the Nigeria of Europe for scams, I guess this could also be a Romanian scam meteorite. Sorry, this Rapsberry Toni is offended, and angry at receipt of a fake piece of garbage. Perhaps I'll send it up to ASU for lab work to see what exactly you sold me. They have Estherville from Nininger as well. Michael Farmer On Jun 2, 2013, at 4:48 AM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Paul, Raspberry Tony (Himbeertoni) is a jesting and cuss word of the Austro-Bavarian language. The etymology is absolutely unclear, neither old references
Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT
Martin, all I have seen is you playing the innocent victim being attacked by amateurs and you pretending to be savaged instead of the one who scammed me. Why don't you man up, answer the simple questions, and make this all go away? Where did you get them? Who scammed you? Why pass off plastic as real AML labels and make up a bologna provenance story? Who are you protecting? Is there a mystery Hungarian collection (By the way I mistakenly substituted Romania for Hungary, I do apologize for that offensive error). Or is this all a fantasy written to offload some fake crap? If we got as clear and concise answers to those questions as we got ancient colloquial literature lessons, we would be done with this thread by now. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 2, 2013, at 8:08 AM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Adam, what do you want. The Bondoc and Murchi is here with us and contemporary suspended from sale, Farmer brings back the Estherville and will get his refund, and then we will test it. Therefore the witch-hunt is paused for 3 weeks+ until after Ensisheim. (and Art can close that topic until then). Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Adam Hupe Gesendet: Sonntag, 2. Juni 2013 16:48 An: Adam Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT Raspberry Tony sounds like a good definition for an invasive species that ruins it for honest species trying to eek out a living. Maybe in this case, we should call it an evasive species since we are not getting straight answers. It reminds me of an invasive species called a Quagga Mussel (small clams) living here in Lake Mojave. They clog up pipes, ruin boat motors and are just plain bad news. They feel they are entitled to live in our lakes for free and cause destruction even though they were not invited. They have even been known to piggy back off one another: a filthy trait they are well-know for. Next these clams will be demanding entitlements, continue to self-pair and substitute garbage for the real thing; All in the name of making more clams!. Definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quagga_mussel Pure stupidity and greed. ... and for some reason, we all put up with it and what cost? The undermining of collector confidence. Adam From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] what is a... OT Amazing long and perfect description of A long forgotten word. Sadly you seem not to have the time to answer a couple of simple questions regarding the non-meteorite you sold me. I took it to a meteorite club meeting yesterday for many people to enjoy, 100% agree it is not even a meteorite. Can you use that amazing power of gab you have Martin, and simply let us know how you decided to make me your Raspberry Toni? You never answered one question asked you about the fake meteorite, fake labels, fake Murchison. You only made references to me carrying around baggies of meteorites in the old days (not sure what that has to do with receipt of a fake meteorite from you). Sorry, I wasn't born a millionaire and had to work to make myself one. It took some time. You make reference to a mistake I made in clearly shipping the wrong specimen some years ago, again sorted out and quickly corrected without character attack on the victim by me, mistake admitted and rectified easily. You refuse to even acknowledge that sending fake produced plastic label is FRUAD when your add clearly states that they are real AML pieces. I just wanted some answers to these questions, instead got a rambling bunch of nonsense that does nothing but divert and dilute from the bottom line of suspect or outright fake meteorite sold to me by you. If you would simply put all that energy to letting me know how such imitations were able to pass your very experiences hands, this would already be forgotten. Instead all I got is how wrong and stupid I am compared to you, you are of course always right because this came from some old Romanian collection? Well, since Romania is well known as the Nigeria of Europe for scams, I guess this could also be a Romanian scam meteorite. Sorry, this Rapsberry Toni is offended, and angry at receipt of a fake piece of garbage. Perhaps I'll send it up to ASU for lab work to see what exactly you sold me. They have Estherville from Nininger as well. Michael Farmer On Jun 2, 2013, at 4:48 AM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Paul, Raspberry Tony (Himbeertoni) is a jesting and cuss word of the Austro-Bavarian language. The etymology is absolutely unclear, neither old
[meteorite-list] what is a...
Can someone please tell me what a Raspberry Tony is? Thanx Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] what is a...
I was wondering that myself. I just want a real Estherville, because this is slag. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 1, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Paul Gessler cetu...@shaw.ca wrote: Can someone please tell me what a Raspberry Tony is? Thanx Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Exploded over Russia?
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/26feb_russianmeteor/ What Exploded over Russia? NASA Science News Feb. 26, 2013: When the sun rose over Russia's Ural Mountains on Friday, Feb. 15th, many residents of nearby Chelyabinsk already knew that a space rock was coming. Later that day, an asteroid named 2012 DA14 would pass by Earth only 17,200 miles above Indonesia. There was no danger of a collision, NASA assured the public. Maybe that's why, when the morning sky lit up with a second sun and a shock wave shattered windows in hundreds of buildings around Chelyabinsk, only a few people picking themselves off the ground figured it out right away. This was not a crashing plane or a rocket attack. It was a meteor strike--the most powerful since the Tunguska event of 1908, says Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office. In a coincidence that still has NASA experts shaking their heads, a small asteroid completely unrelated to 2012 DA14 struck Earth only hours before the publicized event. The impactor flew out of the blue, literally from the direction of the sun where no telescope could see it, and took everyone by surprise. These are rare events and it is incredible to see them happening on the same day, says Paul Chodas of NASA's near-Earth Object Program at JPL. Researchers have since pieced together what happened. The most telling information came from a network of infrasound sensors operated by the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization (CTBTO). Their purpose is to monitor nuclear explosions. Infrasound is a type of very low-frequency sound wave that only elephants and a few other animals can hear. It turns out that meteors entering Earth's atmosphere cause ripples of infrasound to spread through the air of our planet. By analyzing infrasound records, it is possible to learn how long a meteor was in the air, which direction it traveled, and how much energy it unleashed. The Russian meteor's infrasound signal was was the strongest ever detected by the CTBTO network. The furthest station to record the sub-audible sound was 15,000km away in Antarctica. Western Ontario Professor of Physics Peter Brown analyzed the data: The asteroid was about 17 meters in diameter and weighed approximately 10,000 metric tons, he reports. It struck Earth's atmosphere at 40,000 mph and broke apart about 12 to 15 miles above Earth's surface. The energy of the resulting explosion exceeded 470 kilotons of TNT. For comparison, the first atomic bombs produced only 15 to 20 kilotons. Based on the trajectory of the fireball, analysts have also plotted its orbit. It came from the asteroid belt, about 2.5 times farther from the sun than Earth, says Cooke. Comparing the orbit of the Russian meteor to that of 2012 DA14, Cooke has shown that there is no connection between the two. These are independent objects, he says. The fact that they reached Earth on the same day, one just a little closer than the other, appears to be a complete coincidence. Infrasound records confirm that the meteor entered the atmosphere at a shallow angle of about 20 degrees and lasted more than 30 seconds before it exploded. The loud report, which was heard and felt for hundreds of miles, marked the beginning of a scientific scavenger hunt. Thousands of fragments of the meteor are now scattered across the Ural countryside, and a small fraction have already been found. Preliminary reports, mainly communicated through the media, suggest that the asteroid was made mostly of stone with a bit of iron--in other words, a typical asteroid from beyond the orbit of Mars, says Cooke. There are millions more just like it. And that is something to think about as the cleanup in Chelyabinsk continues. Author: Dr. Tony Phillips Production editor: Dr. Tony Phillips Credit: Science@NASA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What are we seeing here?
I'm hesitant to speculate so I must ask. Are these fragments, in this video, that have finished generating visible light and are going into dark flight/reaching terminal velocity? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzwB7FeJRgAfeature=player_embedded#! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What are we seeing here?
Are these fragments...? No, that's lens flare from the bright fireball. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 11:25 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What are we seeing here? I'm hesitant to speculate so I must ask. Are these fragments, in this video, that have finished generating visible light and are going into dark flight/reaching terminal velocity? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzwB7FeJRgAfeature=player_embedded#! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor?
Hi Bjorn, I've been gone on vacation for 5 days so I don't know if your question below was adequately answered yet, but there is no discrepancy between the two pictures. As I pointed out last week in one of my posts, while the trajectory appears to be parallel to the Kazakhstan/Russian border in the Meteosat-9 image, the meteor was NOT travelling parallel to the ground, so its ground track was definitely oriented more clockwise than the ~80-degree azimuth of the country border. From Meteosat 9's perspective, the bolide was very nearly on the limb, so you are seeing it severely foreshortened. More importantly, the east end of the contrail (right side) is at a higher altitude than the west end. As a result, when you project the 3D track down to the ground, it will actually start on the Kazakhstan side of the border. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor? List, There seem to be posted two quite different images to the list about the compass direction from where the meteor came on Friday 15, morning (local). Obviously one of them must be wrong. Surprising if the weather image is wrong, how did that come about? Which one is closest to the direction used by Esko to compute the orbital elements? And which is the true direction? Would be important to clarify this. North is up in both images. Chelyabinsk is in the mid top at the lower one, and near the middle in the top image. The top image suggest azimuth 80 degree, while the lower about 120 degree. Here is a link to the two differing directions stitched together: home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/metlist/twoaz.jpg Bjørn Sørheim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor?
List, There seem to be posted two quite different images to the list about the compass direction from where the meteor came on Friday 15, morning (local). Obviously one of them must be wrong. Surprising if the weather image is wrong, how did that come about? Which one is closest to the direction used by Esko to compute the orbital elements? And which is the true direction? Would be important to clarify this. North is up in both images. Chelyabinsk is in the mid top at the lower one, and near the middle in the top image. The top image suggest azimuth 80 degree, while the lower about 120 degree. Here is a link to the two differing directions stitched together: home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/metlist/twoaz.jpg Bjørn Sørheim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor?
The meteor came from the east (where the Sun was rising). Where did you get the image at the bottom? Everything I have seen about this has said or showed (in videos) that it came from near the Sun and was travelling to the west. Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:52 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor? List, There seem to be posted two quite different images to the list about the compass direction from where the meteor came on Friday 15, morning (local). Obviously one of them must be wrong. Surprising if the weather image is wrong, how did that come about? Which one is closest to the direction used by Esko to compute the orbital elements? And which is the true direction? Would be important to clarify this. North is up in both images. Chelyabinsk is in the mid top at the lower one, and near the middle in the top image. The top image suggest azimuth 80 degree, while the lower about 120 degree. Here is a link to the two differing directions stitched together: home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/metlist/twoaz.jpg Bjørn Sørheim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: 02/17/13 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor?
Hi Bob The bottom image was posted to the list with two others showing closer up projection on a map of The Chelyabinsk area. They all three show the roughly 120 degree azimuth entry. They seems to be detailed and some level of work behind. The Sun at this time would rise in the region at 100-110 degree azimuth, I estimate. The image come from a posting to the list about a day ago, titled: Russian progress on trajectory posted by Robin Whittle Bjørn Sørheim - The meteor came from the east (where the Sun was rising). Where did you get the image at the bottom? Everything I have seen about this has said or showed (in videos) that it came from near the Sun and was travelling to the west. Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:52 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor? List, There seem to be posted two quite different images to the list about the compass direction from where the meteor came on Friday 15, morning (local). Obviously one of them must be wrong. Surprising if the weather image is wrong, how did that come about? Which one is closest to the direction used by Esko to compute the orbital elements? And which is the true direction? Would be important to clarify this. North is up in both images. Chelyabinsk is in the mid top at the lower one, and near the middle in the top image. The top image suggest azimuth 80 degree, while the lower about 120 degree. Here is a link to the two differing directions stitched together: home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/metlist/twoaz.jpg Bjørn Sørheim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor?
Hi Bjørn, In the videos, the meteor is first seen above and to the left of the rising sun, so that would mean that it was further north than the rising sun. If you estimate the sun to be rising between 100-110 degrees azimuth, then the meteor would be less than 100 degrees, so the 80 degree estimate would be correct. Unless, the sun was still far below the horizon and therefore was further north relative to the video's angle. Maybe some of the experts can step in and let us know what the azimuth really was. Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 1:27 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor? Hi Bob The bottom image was posted to the list with two others showing closer up projection on a map of The Chelyabinsk area. They all three show the roughly 120 degree azimuth entry. They seems to be detailed and some level of work behind. The Sun at this time would rise in the region at 100-110 degree azimuth, I estimate. The image come from a posting to the list about a day ago, titled: Russian progress on trajectory posted by Robin Whittle Bjørn Sørheim - The meteor came from the east (where the Sun was rising). Where did you get the image at the bottom? Everything I have seen about this has said or showed (in videos) that it came from near the Sun and was travelling to the west. Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:52 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor? List, There seem to be posted two quite different images to the list about the compass direction from where the meteor came on Friday 15, morning (local). Obviously one of them must be wrong. Surprising if the weather image is wrong, how did that come about? Which one is closest to the direction used by Esko to compute the orbital elements? And which is the true direction? Would be important to clarify this. North is up in both images. Chelyabinsk is in the mid top at the lower one, and near the middle in the top image. The top image suggest azimuth 80 degree, while the lower about 120 degree. Here is a link to the two differing directions stitched together: home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/metlist/twoaz.jpg Bjørn Sørheim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: 02/17/13 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor?
Bob, The link below support strongly (from Robin Whittle post, thanks to him) the trajectory of the lower image in my first link. From the videos it is found that the bolide travelled almost right overYemanzhelinsk which is south of Korkino, which are two suburbs south of Chelyabinsk. Then continuing straight to the Lake Chebarkul impact site. So a roughly 120 azimuth path seems the correct one, bending slightly to the west after an explosion near Yemanzhelinsk. That means it came actually from southeast, not from northeast! Why the Meteosat 9 image (top one) is so far off, I can't explain. It was taken at 9:15, so is it really showing the meteor cloud? It seems to have an enormous size also, when considering the scale of the image. The video of the meteor travel in the link below indicates that one was shot at 9:20:28 forwards. Using SkyMap Pro I get a sunrise time of 9:16:33 and an azimuth for the sun at 9:20:20 at 111 deg 48', as seen from the suburb Yemanzhelinsk, so not far off my estimate. ogleearth.com/2013/02/reconstructing-the-chelyabinsk-meteors-path-with-google-earth-youtube-and-high-school-math Bjørn Sørheim Hi Bjørn, In the videos, the meteor is first seen above and to the left of the rising sun, so that would mean that it was further north than the rising sun. If you estimate the sun to be rising between 100-110 degrees azimuth, then the meteor would be less than 100 degrees, so the 80 degree estimate would be correct. Unless, the sun was still far below the horizon and therefore was further north relative to the video's angle. Maybe some of the experts can step in and let us know what the azimuth really was. Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 1:27 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor? Hi Bob The bottom image was posted to the list with two others showing closer up projection on a map of The Chelyabinsk area. They all three show the roughly 120 degree azimuth entry. They seems to be detailed and some level of work behind. The Sun at this time would rise in the region at 100-110 degree azimuth, I estimate. The image come from a posting to the list about a day ago, titled: Russian progress on trajectory posted by Robin Whittle Bjørn Sørheim - The meteor came from the east (where the Sun was rising). Where did you get the image at the bottom? Everything I have seen about this has said or showed (in videos) that it came from near the Sun and was travelling to the west. Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:52 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] What was the true azimuth of the Russian meteor? List, There seem to be posted two quite different images to the list about the compass direction from where the meteor came on Friday 15, morning (local). Obviously one of them must be wrong. Surprising if the weather image is wrong, how did that come about? Which one is closest to the direction used by Esko to compute the orbital elements? And which is the true direction? Would be important to clarify this. North is up in both images. Chelyabinsk is in the mid top at the lower one, and near the middle in the top image. The top image suggest azimuth 80 degree, while the lower about 120 degree. Here is a link to the two differing directions stitched together: home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/metlist/twoaz.jpg Bjørn Sørheim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What I just learned about 'Finds'
Kevin, This is why I posted the following question to Jeff that you evidently missed? I had the same concern about how can we be sure the find is from the fall we think it's from? Without a Scientific test it is well, a guess at best. Because as noted in the question to Jeff, Visual Freshness alone matters not. So, other than the case where someone comes home to find a big hole in the roof and a big rock sitting on the floor inside (an obvious unobserved fall) it seems to me their needs to be a verifiable way to prove when it fell otherwise we will see mistakes even if by accident. Because as already stated, we see falling stars all the time that you could attribute to your find. In my previous post back on the 7th I asked; Jeff, Thanks once again for your information. I have a question; What degree of accuracy does Science have in calculating the exact time a meteorite fell? Is this calculation within one day, one week , one month, one year, or within ten years? which is it and how certain can Science be? Just for one example of why I ask; If I recall correctly, Farmer found a second fall find in Spain (name escapes me at the moment but, was in an olive grove?) about one year later than his first fall find and it still looked fresh. Thanks. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: -- Cheers Carl Meteoritemax Kevin Kichinka mars...@gmail.com wrote: Team Meteorite: I contributed to the list a couplf of days ago what I thought was a fun, satire piece on Dr. Jeff Grossman's humbly proffered and revolutionary system to characterize 'finds'. I followed this issue in the archives, and must admit I just didn't agree with this complication I felt would end up becoming another marketing tool to raise prices. But what I perceived wasn't the reality. At the end of the 'hilarity' I concluded that smarter folks than me will decide this issue. I'm glad Jeff is trying something new. And it didn't take long for those 'smarter folks' to inform me of what the real issue is. And it's not about anything 'funny'. Some folks among us are trying to pass off fresh meteorites as something they are not for major monetary gain. We all know that there are constant reports of meteors- observed by radar or witnesses- that are not recovered. Wait, here's one! $ It is financially and legally difficult for entrusted parties to counter such a claim of a 'freshly recovered fall', even if it completely chemically matches a known meteorite. If this was Jeff's intention, to try to create some framework to 'signal' the legitimacy of a claimed, recovered fall, I don't know, and I don't want to 'assume' this. I've already done the 'ass thing' once. But knowing now about this subterfuge, I for one, will open my ears and eyes (and shut my mouth and lay down my quill) to consider anything Jeff suggests that will help all of us avoid purchasing such illicit material. And as I wrote, and sincerely meant, I'm glad Jeff is trying something new. Let's hope he succeeds. Kevin Kichinka Rio del Oro, Costa Rica 'The Global Meteorite Price Report - 2013' www.theartofcollectingmeteorites.com (also available as an ebook on Amazon/Barnes and Noble) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What is Creating Gullies on Vesta?
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2012-389 What is Creating Gullies on Vesta? Jet Propulsion Laboratory December 06, 2012 In a preliminary analysis of images from NASA's Dawn mission, scientists have spotted intriguing gullies that sculpt the walls of geologically young craters on the giant asteroid Vesta. Led by Jennifer Scully, a Dawn team member at the University of California, Los Angeles, these scientists have found narrow channels of two types in images from Dawn's framing camera - some that look like straight chutes and others that carve more sinuous trails and end in lobe-shaped deposits. The mystery, however, is what is creating them? The presentation on gullies is one of several that Dawn team members are making at this year's American Geophysical Union conference in San Francisco. Other topics include craters on Vesta, the giant asteroid's mineralogy, and the distinctive dark and bright materials found on the surface. The straight gullies we see on Vesta are textbook examples of flows of dry material, like sand, that we've seen on Earth's moon and we expected to see on Vesta, said Scully, who presented in-progress findings on these gullies today. But these sinuous gullies are an exciting, unexpected find that we are still trying to understand. The sinuous gullies are longer, narrower, and curvier than the short, wide, straight gullies. They tend to start from V-shaped, collapsed regions described as alcoves and merge with other gullies. Scientists think different processes formed the two types of gullies and have been looking at images of Earth, Mars and other small bodies for clues. On Earth, similar features - seen at places like Meteor Crater in Arizona -- are carved by liquid water, said Christopher Russell, Dawn's principal investigator, also based at UCLA. On Mars, there is still a debate about what has caused them. We need to analyze the Vesta gullies very carefully before definitively specifying their source. Indeed, scientists have suggested various explanations for gullies on Mars since fresh-looking gullies were discovered in images from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor in 2000. Some of the proposed Martian mechanisms involve water, some carbon dioxide, and some neither. One study in 2010 suggested that carbon-dioxide frost was causing fresh flows of sand on the Red Planet. JPL manages the Dawn mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington. Dawn is a project of the directorate's Discovery Program, managed by NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. The University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) is responsible for overall Dawn mission science. Orbital Sciences Corp. in Dulles, Va., designed and built the spacecraft. The German Aerospace Center, the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, the Italian Space Agency and the Italian National Astrophysical Institute are international partners on the mission team. The California Institute of Technology in Pasadena manages JPL for NASA. For more information about Dawn, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/dawn and http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov . Jia-Rui C. Cook/D.C. Agle 818-354-0850/393-9011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. jcc...@jpl.nasa.gov / a...@jpl.nasa.gov 2012-389 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What has NASA done to make your life awesome?
List, Here is a cool web site that highlights the Good things that NASA has done for all of us. A must see. Click below; http://wtnasa.com/ Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What is this structure?
Hello! I would like to know: what is shown in the photo - sinkhole or crater? A diameter of 15 meters. About 0.5 meters deep sand bars, followed by a hard green clay. Around the structure - a shaft of up to 60 centimeters. Unfortunately we do not have metal detectors, check for debris we can not. What is this structure? http://imageup.ru/s1085718 http://imageup.ru/s1085719 Sincerely. Alexander. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What Do We Know About The Origin of the Earth's Oceans?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-do-we-know-about-the What do we know about the origin of the earth's oceans? Is it more likely that they derive from icy comets that struck the young earth or from material released from the earth's interior during volcanic activity? Scientifc American Tobias C. Owen of the Institute for Astronomy in Honolulu, Hawaii, offers this overview: This is a very good question, because we do not yet have an answer that everyone accepts. The origin of the oceans goes back to the time of the earth's formation 4. 6 billion years ago, when our planet was forming through the accumulation of smaller objects, called planetesimals. There are basically three possible sources for the water. It could have (1) separated out from the rocks that make up the bulk of the earth; (2) arrived as part of a late-accreting veneer of water-rich meteorites, similar to the carbonaceous chondrites that we see today; or (3) arrived as part of a late-accreting veneer of icy planetesimals, that is, comets. The composition of the ocean offers some clues as to its origin. If all the comets contain the same kind of water ice that we have examined in Comets Halley and Hyakutake- -the only ones whose water molecules we've been able to study in detail-- then comets cannot have delivered all the water in the earth's oceans. We know this because the ice in the comets contains twice as many atoms of deuterium (a heavy isotope of hydrogen) to each atom of ordinary hydrogen as we find in seawater. At the same time, we know that the meteorites could not have delivered all of the water, because then the earth's atmosphere would contain nearly 10 times as much xenon (an inert gas) as it actually does. Meteorites all carry this excess xenon. Nobody has yet measured the concentration of xenon in comets, but recent laboratory experiments on the trapping of gases by ice forming at low temperatures suggest that comets do not contain high concentrations of the xenon. A mixture of meteoritic water and cometary water would not work either, because this combination would still contain a higher concentration of deuterium than is found in the oceans. Hence, the best model for the source of the oceans at the moment is a combination of water derived from comets and water that was caught up in the rocky body of the earth as it formed. This mixture satisfies the xenon problem. It also appears to solve the deuterium problem--but only if the rocky material out near the earth's present orbit picked up some local water from the solar nebula (the cloud of gas and dust surrounding the young sun) before they accreted to form the earth. Some new laboratory studies of the manner in which deuterium gets exchanged between hydrogen gas and water vapor have indicated that the water vapor in the local region of the solar nebula would have had about the right (low) proportion of deuterium to balance the excess deuterium seen in comets. The point to emphasize here is that this is a model, a working hypothesis that must be rigorously tested by many additional measurements. We need to study more comets. We also need to learn more about the water on Mars, where we have another chance to investigate the sources described above. On the earth, plate tectonics has caused oceanic water to mix considerably with material from the planet's interior; such contamination probably did not occur on Mars, where plate tectonics does not seem to occur. These investigations (and other related studies) are currently under way. This is an active area of research! ** James C. G. Walker of the University of Michigan confirms that conclusion, adding his perspective: The best current thinking is that volatiles (elements and compounds, including water, that vaporize at low temperatures) were released from the solid phase as the earth accreted. Thus, the earth and its oceans and atmosphere grew together. During accretion, the kinetic energy of the colliding planetesimals was converted into thermal energy, so the earth grew extremely hot as it came together. The material forming the earth was probably too hot for ice to have been a major carrier of water. Most of the water was probably present originally as water trapped in clay minerals or as separate hydrogen (in hydrocarbons) and oxygen (in iron oxides), rather than as ice. Since the end of the period of accretion, more than four billion years ago, there has been a continual exchange of volatile material--including water--between the surface of the earth and the planet's interior (that is, between the crust and the mantle). Volcanoes release water and carbon dioxide to the atmosphere and ocean. Subduction of sediments rich in volatiles takes place at deep ocean trenches. The sinking of oceanic crust at subduction zones carries water and carbon dioxide back into the mantle. These processes can all be seen at work today. In short, icy cometary material probably has not been important in
[meteorite-list] What to Expect When Curiosity Starts Snapping Pictures
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2012-226 What to Expect When Curiosity Starts Snapping Pictures Jet Propulsion Laboratory August 03, 2012 If a group of tourists piled out of a transport vehicle onto the surface of Mars, they'd no doubt start snapping pictures wildly. NASA's Curiosity rover, set to touch down on the Red Planet the evening of Aug. 5 PDT (early morning EDT), will take a more careful approach to capturing its first scenic views. The car-size rover's very first images will come from the one-megapixel Hazard-Avoidance cameras (Hazcams) attached to the body of the rover. Once engineers have determined that it is safe to deploy the rover's Remote Sensing Mast and its high-tech cameras, a process that may take several days, Curiosity will begin to survey its exotic surroundings. A set of low-resolution gray scale Hazcam images will be acquired within minutes of landing on the surface, said Justin Maki of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. Once all of the critical systems have been checked out by the engineering team and the mast is deployed, the rover will image the landing site with higher-resolution cameras. Maki led the development of Curiosity's 12 engineering cameras -- eight Hazcams at the front and back of the rover, and four Navigation cameras (Navcams) at the top of the rover's look-out mast. All the engineering cameras acquire black-and-white pictures from left and right stereo eyes, which are merged to provide three-dimensional information. Half of the cameras are backups, meaning there's one set for each of the rover's A- and B-side redundant computers. The very first images are likely to arrive more than two hours after landing, due to the timing of NASA's signal-relaying Odyssey orbiter. They will be captured with the left and right Hazcams at the back and front of the rover, and they will not yet be full-resolution (the two images arriving on Earth first are thumbnail copies, which are 64 by 64 pixels in size). The Hazcams are equipped with very wide-angle, fisheye lenses, initially capped with clear dust covers. The covers are designed to protect the cameras from dust that may be kicked up during landing; they are clear just in case they don't pop off as expected. These first views will give engineers a good idea of what surrounds Curiosity, as well as its location and tilt. Ensuring that the rover is on stable ground is important before raising the rover's mast, said Mission Manager Jennifer Trosper at JPL. We are using an entirely new landing system on this mission, so we are proceeding with caution. Color pictures from the rover's Mars Descent Imager, or MARDI, acquired as the rover descends to the Martian surface, will help pinpoint the rover's location. Initial images from MARDI are expected to be released Aug. 6, the day after landing. These will also be in the form of thumbnails (in the case of the science cameras, thumbnails can vary in size, with the largest being 192 pixels wide by 144 pixels high). One full-resolution image may also be returned at this time. Additional color views of the planet's surface are expected the morning of Aug. 7 from the Mars Hand Lens Imager, or MAHLI, one of five devices on the rover's Inspector Gadget-like arm. The camera is designed to take close-up pictures of rocks and soil, but can also take images out to the horizon. When Curiosity lands and its arm is still stowed, the instrument will be pointed to the side, allowing it to capture an initial color view of the Gale Crater area. Once Curiosity's mast is standing tall, the Navcams will begin taking one-megapixel stereo pictures 360 degrees around the rover as well as images of the rover deck. These cameras have medium-angle, 45-degree fields of views and could resolve the equivalent of a golf ball lying 82 feet (25 meters) away. They are designed to survey the landscape fairly quickly, and, not only can they look all around but also up and down. Navigation camera pictures are expected to begin arriving on Earth about three days after landing if the mast is deployed on schedule. Like the Hazcams, Navcam images are used to obtain three-dimensional information about the Martian terrain. Together, they help the scientists and engineers make decisions about where and how to drive the rover and which rocks to examine with instruments that identify chemical ingredients. A large part of the surface mission is conducted using the images returned from the cameras, said Maki. Also, about three days after landing, the narrower field-of-view Mast Cameras (Mastcams) are expected to start snapping their first shots. These two-megapixel color cameras will reveal the rover's new home in exquisite detail. Small thumbnail versions of the pictures will be sent down first with an initial high-resolution panorama expected more than a week later. The camera of the Chemistry and Camera (ChemCam) instrument will provide a telescopic view of targets at a distance.
[meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth?
Hi Paul - The answer is the same thing that killed off many megafuana intercontinentally, instantaneously, and simlutaneously: global climate collapse, i.l., nucelar winter. Now they are two causes of global dust loading, one of which is volcanic eruption, the other impact. Since we have no evidence of volcanic eruption, we are left with impact. PS- Sterling, Wrangle Island mammoth were already the size of large dogs, so small as to constitute a different species, using the old definition based on ability to interbreed. EP __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth?
HmmmI thought it was aerosol sprays, SUVs and Edison lightbulbs (all sales of the latter, btw, have been suspended.) - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 7:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? Hi Paul - The answer is the same thing that killed off many megafuana intercontinentally, instantaneously, and simlutaneously: global climate collapse, i.l., nucelar winter. Now they are two causes of global dust loading, one of which is volcanic eruption, the other impact. Since we have no evidence of volcanic eruption, we are left with impact. PS- Sterling, Wrangle Island mammoth were already the size of large dogs, so small as to constitute a different species, using the old definition based on ability to interbreed. EP __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth?
I really hate to get into this one. However, Richard you always seem to get a good chuckle outta me. And, let's not forget bovine flatulence. - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? HmmmI thought it was aerosol sprays, SUVs and Edison lightbulbs (all sales of the latter, btw, have been suspended.) - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 7:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? Hi Paul - The answer is the same thing that killed off many megafuana intercontinentally, instantaneously, and simlutaneously: global climate collapse, i.l., nucelar winter. Now they are two causes of global dust loading, one of which is volcanic eruption, the other impact. Since we have no evidence of volcanic eruption, we are left with impact. PS- Sterling, Wrangle Island mammoth were already the size of large dogs, so small as to constitute a different species, using the old definition based on ability to interbreed. EP __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth?
John, Richard, and others, You may want to take this into consideration as well: http://www.gocomics.com/unstrange-phenomena/2012/06/14 Ed - Original Message - From: John Lutzon j...@lutzon.com To: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? I really hate to get into this one. However, Richard you always seem to get a good chuckle outta me. And, let's not forget bovine flatulence. - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? HmmmI thought it was aerosol sprays, SUVs and Edison lightbulbs (all sales of the latter, btw, have been suspended.) - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 7:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? Hi Paul - The answer is the same thing that killed off many megafuana intercontinentally, instantaneously, and simlutaneously: global climate collapse, i.l., nucelar winter. Now they are two causes of global dust loading, one of which is volcanic eruption, the other impact. Since we have no evidence of volcanic eruption, we are left with impact. PS- Sterling, Wrangle Island mammoth were already the size of large dogs, so small as to constitute a different species, using the old definition based on ability to interbreed. EP __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth?
Hi Gang, I think a hammer-fall killed the mammoths.. ;) Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 6/16/12, John Lutzon j...@lutzon.com wrote: I really hate to get into this one. However, Richard you always seem to get a good chuckle outta me. And, let's not forget bovine flatulence. - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? HmmmI thought it was aerosol sprays, SUVs and Edison lightbulbs (all sales of the latter, btw, have been suspended.) - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 7:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? Hi Paul - The answer is the same thing that killed off many megafuana intercontinentally, instantaneously, and simlutaneously: global climate collapse, i.l., nucelar winter. Now they are two causes of global dust loading, one of which is volcanic eruption, the other impact. Since we have no evidence of volcanic eruption, we are left with impact. PS- Sterling, Wrangle Island mammoth were already the size of large dogs, so small as to constitute a different species, using the old definition based on ability to interbreed. EP __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth?
EP, List, Quote It was assumed that Wrangell Island mammoths ranged from 180-230 cm in shoulder height and were for a time considered dwarf mammoths. However this classification has been re-evaluated and since the Second International Mammoth Conference in 1999, these mammoths are no longer considered to be true dwarf mammoths Unquote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_elephant Eight fee high at the shoulder is a little high for a dwarf or for a large dog. I don't want to meet a Weimaraner that's eight feet high, ya know? So, instead of being the World's Tallest Midget, they've decided it's the World's Smallest Giant. The California Channel Island mammoths were 4-5 feet at the shoulder and the Mediterranean Dwarf mammoths even smaller. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? Hi Paul - The answer is the same thing that killed off many megafuana intercontinentally, instantaneously, and simlutaneously: global climate collapse, i.l., nucelar winter. Now they are two causes of global dust loading, one of which is volcanic eruption, the other impact. Since we have no evidence of volcanic eruption, we are left with impact. PS- Sterling, Wrangle Island mammoth were already the size of large dogs, so small as to constitute a different species, using the old definition based on ability to interbreed. EP __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth?
Hi Sterling - As big as a dog, from the fossils that shown in the standard reference Mammoths Lister and Bahn, pg 35. Height about 3-4 feet. Similar in size to dwarf elephant/mammoth from Crete: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_dwarfism (Also check out Ice Age Mammals of North America, Ian Lange and our friend Dorothy Norton, for species, diets, and ranges.) But I digress. The important part of this is their different food requirements: mammoth and mastodon about 300-350 kilos per day, dwarf forms an order of magnitude less. For the intercontinental, instantaneous, simultaneous extintinctions of megafauna, see Mammoths, pages 124-125. EP --- On Sat, 6/16/12, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? To: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 1:23 PM EP, List, Quote It was assumed that Wrangell Island mammoths ranged from 180-230 cm in shoulder height and were for a time considered dwarf mammoths. However this classification has been re-evaluated and since the Second International Mammoth Conference in 1999, these mammoths are no longer considered to be true dwarf mammoths Unquote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_elephant Eight fee high at the shoulder is a little high for a dwarf or for a large dog. I don't want to meet a Weimaraner that's eight feet high, ya know? So, instead of being the World's Tallest Midget, they've decided it's the World's Smallest Giant. The California Channel Island mammoths were 4-5 feet at the shoulder and the Mediterranean Dwarf mammoths even smaller. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off the Mammoth? Hi Paul - The answer is the same thing that killed off many megafuana intercontinentally, instantaneously, and simlutaneously: global climate collapse, i.l., nucelar winter. Now they are two causes of global dust loading, one of which is volcanic eruption, the other impact. Since we have no evidence of volcanic eruption, we are left with impact. PS- Sterling, Wrangle Island mammoth were already the size of large dogs, so small as to constitute a different species, using the old definition based on ability to interbreed. EP __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What killed the woolly mammoth? A whole bunch ofthings
What killed the woolly mammoth? That's only a small part of the tangle of the Proboscideans. The Woolly Mammoth evolved from the Steppe Mammoth about 250,000 years ago, and the Steppe Mammoth evolved from the Ancestral Mammoths about 700,000 years ago. The Ancestral Mammoths appear about 2.5-3.0 million years before that --- in Sub-Sarahan Africa! You have to admit Africa is a strange place for Woolly Mammoths to trace their family tree from, the Asian Elephants and Mammoths spitting off at about the time. The Mammoths are related to the Mastodons who appear 28 million years ago and covered every continent except Antarctica and Australia. The South American Mastodons lasted until 9000 years ago, but North American Mastodons (equally woolly) died out about 12,000 years ago, very like the Mammoths themselves. The causes cannot be same, despite the fact that the timeline is so similar, as Mammoths and Mastodons have different diets, need different terrain, environment, and climate, but they disappeared together One thing stands out, though: each successive Mammoth species was smaller than the one before it, ending with the Wrangel Mammoths who are no longer considered dwarf; they were about 2 meters at the shoulder. (Mediterranean Dwarf Mammoths were tiny, about the size of a Saint Bernard dog.) Scores of genera of giant mammals vanished from North America at the same time, with nothing much in common except that a) they were big, and b) there were suddenly humans in the neighborhood. The climate change argument is a poor one, as the climate of North America had been cycling through the usual changes of an Ice Age for some millions of years. And Man The Mighty Hunter doesn't convince me either. On the other hand, Man The Massive Environmental Changer might convince me, but there's no evidence of that in North American 12,000 years ago. Similar arguments have been raging about the megafaunal extinctions in Australia, the theory being that the massive environmental change was caused by the human use of fire, not hunting. That's been the big theory in Australia for decades, but now chronometric cores say the megafauna disappeared before fire increased, so they are back to the Mighty Hunter theory. See, they don't need a Dryas to generate lots of controversy. Poor Mammoths! Everything just ganged up on them all at once, I guess. Is that the current consensus? Did anyone ever considered that mere Giantism itself could be a self-defeating evolutionary strategy? In the long run, I mean. Giantism has been around for hundreds of millions of years, so there are lots of arguments for what a good idea it is. I think that's because we humans are always impressed by sheer bigness (Jurassic Park Syndrome). So why were the Mammoths trying to get small? There are so many things a giant can't do. It can't climb trees; it can't fly; it can't burrow; it can't live in the hills -- it doesn't function well in anything but flat terrain. There is a huge investment in huge individuals and their numbers are limited by that. Their range of livable conditions is very narrow. That's always a giant risk. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:49 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed the woolly mammoth? A whole bunch ofthings What killed the woolly mammoth? A whole bunch of things, scientists say, Christian Science Monitor, June 12, 2012, http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0612/What-killed-the-woolly-mammoth-A-whole-bunch-of-things-scientists-say.-video Woolly Mammoth Extinction Has Lessons for Modern Climate Change, ScienceDaily, June 12, 2012 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120612144809.htm Many factors in extinction of mammoths, SBS, June 12, 2012, http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1658619/Many-factors-in-extinction-of-mammoths Study: Many factors in mammoth extinction, UPI.com, June 12, 2012 http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2012/06/12/Study-Many-factors-in-mammoth-extinction/UPI-96671339529828/?spt=hsor=sn The paper is: MacDonald, G. M., D. W. Beilman, Y. V. Kuzmin, L. A. Orlova, K. V. Kremenetski, B. Shapiro, R. K. Wayne, and B. Van Valkenburgh, 2012, Pattern of extinction of the woolly mammoth in Beringia. Nature Communications, 2012 DOI: 10.1038/ncomms1881 http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v3/n6/full/ncomms1881.html Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net
[meteorite-list] What killed the woolly mammoth? A whole bunch of things
What killed the woolly mammoth? A whole bunch of things, scientists say, Christian Science Monitor, June 12, 2012, http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0612/What-killed-the-woolly-mammoth-A-whole-bunch-of-things-scientists-say.-video Woolly Mammoth Extinction Has Lessons for Modern Climate Change, ScienceDaily, June 12, 2012 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120612144809.htm Many factors in extinction of mammoths, SBS, June 12, 2012, http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1658619/Many-factors-in-extinction-of-mammoths Study: Many factors in mammoth extinction, UPI.com, June 12, 2012 http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2012/06/12/Study-Many-factors-in-mammoth-extinction/UPI-96671339529828/?spt=hsor=sn The paper is: MacDonald, G. M., D. W. Beilman, Y. V. Kuzmin, L. A. Orlova, K. V. Kremenetski, B. Shapiro, R. K. Wayne, and B. Van Valkenburgh, 2012, Pattern of extinction of the woolly mammoth in Beringia. Nature Communications, 2012 DOI: 10.1038/ncomms1881 http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v3/n6/full/ncomms1881.html Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is Chladni's book on 18 meteoritefalls title?????? (Stuetz)
Yes he did, he tried also to find for Chladni the four of the five stones or irons of Miskolcz, which had fallen in 1559 and which were transported to the Vienna collection, but he was unable to locate them. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Grossman Gesendet: Freitag, 13. April 2012 05:43 An: Chladnis Heirs; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What is Chladni's book on 18 meteoritefalls title?? (Stuetz) Andreas Xavier Stütz changed his views about meteoritic fairy tales and lightning before he died. See my article on the Tabor meteorite in the May 2011 issue of Meteorite Magazine, which shows the change in his views based on the entries in the Catalogus Stützianus, Natural History Museum, Vienna. To my knowledge, my finding was previously unreported in the literature until it was published in Meteorite Magazine. Mark Mark Grossman Meteorite Manuscripts www.meteoritemanuscripts.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: Chladnis Heirs n...@chladnis-heirs.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What is Chladni's book on 18 meteoritefalls title?? (Stuetz) Hi Shawn, the paper by Andreas Xaver Stuetz, you're looking for, was published in Born's Trebra's Bergbaukunde, second volume, 1790. You have it here online: http://kuerzer.de/shawnstuetz Page 398 - 409. In fact he reports there from the fall of Eichstädt, mentions the Pallas-Iron and gives at length a report about the fall of Hraschina - with eyewitness observations, in translating the report about the fall by Wolfgang Kukulyewich, vicar of Agram. Here and there he gives some ironic remarks. Stuetz is classifying these reports as fairy tales, closing the article with a lengthy explanation, that these stonesirons were formed by lightning. Best! Martin Stefan -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn Alan Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. April 2012 10:25 An: Meteorite Central Betreff: [meteorite-list] What is Chladni's book on 18 meteorite falls title?? Hello Listers I am wondering if any of you history meteorite buffs by chance know the name of Chladni's book he wrote on 18 meteorites falls and if there might be an English pdf version floating around on the Internet or somewhere else? Also, I was trying to look for a copy of the paper titled On Some Stones Allegedly Fallen from the Heaven published in 1790 by Abbe Andreas Xavier Stutz which Chladni extensively quoted from when he was writing his book. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 ebay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html? http://www.meteoritefalls.com/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What is Chladni's book on 18 meteorite falls title??????
Hello Listers I am wondering if any of you history meteorite buffs by chance know the name of Chladni's book he wrote on 18 meteorites falls and if there might be an English pdf version floating around on the Internet or somewhere else? Also, I was trying to look for a copy of the paper titled On Some Stones Allegedly Fallen from the Heaven published in 1790 by Abbe Andreas Xavier Stutz which Chladni extensively quoted from when he was writing his book. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 ebay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html? http://www.meteoritefalls.com/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
