Re: [meteorite-list] SETI, The Silurian Hypothesis, and Defining the Anthropocene
There is an interesting modern model for this: We are all familiar with the Inca civilization, thanks to its enormous stone ruins, but how many people are familiar with the Inca's contemporaries in the Amazon jungle? The Amazon culture was magnificently well organized, developed methods for growing artificial hills to live on out of reach of the yearly floodwaters in the surrounding swamps, connected these artificial hills with long straight highways, likewise raised above the swampwaters, but they had no access to stones or concrete, their organic structures rotted away, and their existence wasn't even suspected until satellite imagery revealed their highway network. Now we drill down into what used to be considered natural hills in the Amazon basin and find ceramic all the way down. Other than buried ceramic shards and the artificial changes to the landscape, little evidence remains that here was a civilization that might have rivalled the Incas in power. Archaeological studies are biased towards civilizations with lots of stone and/or in arid areas; the rest get neglected because there are fewer remains left to study. A hypothetical technological civilization based on components made from organic materials (or even non-precious metals) would leave nothing to study. On 22 April 2018 at 23:53, Paul via Meteorite-list < meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote: > Was There a Civilization On Earth Before Humans? > Adam Frank, The Atlantic, April 13, 2018 > https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we- > earths-only-civilization/557180/ > > Schmidt, G.A. and Frank, A., 2018. The Silurian > hypothesis: would it be possible to detect an industrial > civilization in the geological record? International > Journal of Astrobiology, pp. 1-9. > https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.03748 > https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journa > l-of-astrobiology/article/silurian-hypothesis-would-it- > be-possible-to-detect-an-industrial-civilization-in- > the-geological-record/77818514AA6907750B8F4339F7C70EC6 > > There are two very good books that discuss > what a technological civilization, ours, would > behind in the archaeological – geological record. > > They are; > > Weisman, A., 2008. The world without us. Macmillan. > 0312427905, 9780312427900 > > and > > Zalasiewicz, J. and Freedman, K., 2009. The Earth > after us: what legacy will humans leave in the rocks?. > Oxford University Press. 0199214980, 9780199214983 > > Dr. Zalasiewicz has written a papers about the > Anthropocene and the signature and traces that > would survive in the geologic record. Examples are: > > Zalasiewicz, J., Waters, C.N. and Williams, M., 2014. > Human bioturbation, and the subterranean landscape > of the Anthropocene. Anthropocene, 6, pp. 3-9. > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264241410_Human_bio > turbation_and_the_subterranean_landscape_of_the_Anthropocene > > and > > Zalasiewicz, J., Williams, M., Waters, C.N., Barnosky, > A.D. and Haff, P., 2014. The technofossil record of > humans. The Anthropocene Review, 1(1), pp. 34-43. > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264461538_The_techn > ofossil_record_of_humans > > Related papers can be found at: > > Jan Zalasiewicz, University of Leicester, Department of Geology, > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jan_Zalasiewicz > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > "The past is never dead. It's not even past." > William Faulkner, Act 1, Scene III, Requiem for a Nun (1951) > > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] SETI, The Silurian Hypothesis, and Defining the Anthropocene
Was There a Civilization On Earth Before Humans? Adam Frank, The Atlantic, April 13, 2018 https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earths-only-civilization/557180/ Schmidt, G.A. and Frank, A., 2018. The Silurian hypothesis: would it be possible to detect an industrial civilization in the geological record? International Journal of Astrobiology, pp. 1-9. https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.03748 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-astrobiology/article/silurian-hypothesis-would-it-be-possible-to-detect-an-industrial-civilization-in-the-geological-record/77818514AA6907750B8F4339F7C70EC6 There are two very good books that discuss what a technological civilization, ours, would behind in the archaeological – geological record. They are; Weisman, A., 2008. The world without us. Macmillan. 0312427905, 9780312427900 and Zalasiewicz, J. and Freedman, K., 2009. The Earth after us: what legacy will humans leave in the rocks?. Oxford University Press. 0199214980, 9780199214983 Dr. Zalasiewicz has written a papers about the Anthropocene and the signature and traces that would survive in the geologic record. Examples are: Zalasiewicz, J., Waters, C.N. and Williams, M., 2014. Human bioturbation, and the subterranean landscape of the Anthropocene. Anthropocene, 6, pp. 3-9. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264241410_Human_bioturbation_and_the_subterranean_landscape_of_the_Anthropocene and Zalasiewicz, J., Williams, M., Waters, C.N., Barnosky, A.D. and Haff, P., 2014. The technofossil record of humans. The Anthropocene Review, 1(1), pp. 34-43. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264461538_The_technofossil_record_of_humans Related papers can be found at: Jan Zalasiewicz, University of Leicester, Department of Geology, https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jan_Zalasiewicz Yours, Paul H. "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner, Act 1, Scene III, Requiem for a Nun (1951) __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] SETI conducts coordinated search for ET
But outer Space, At least this far, For all the fuss Of the populace Stays more popular Than populousRobert Frost--- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/06/AR2010110604127.html Observatories on 5 continents to scan skies for extraterrestrial life Gallery A global search for extraterrestrial intelligence It's the 50th anniversary of Project Ozma, a pioneering search for extraterrestrial Intelligence experiment to search for signs of life in distant solar systems through interstellar radio waves. » LAUNCH PHOTO GALLERY Network News X Profile View More Activity TOOLBOX Resize Print E-mail Yahoo! Buzz Reprints COMMENT 47 Comments | View All » POST A COMMENT You must be logged in to leave a comment. Log in | Register Why Do I Have to Log In Again? Log In Again? CLOSE We've made some updates to washingtonpost.com's Groups, MyPost and comment pages. We need you to verify your MyPost ID by logging in before you can post to the new pages. We apologize for the inconvenience. Discussion PolicyYour browser's settings may be preventing you from commenting on and viewing comments about this item. See instructions for fixing the problem. Discussion Policy CLOSE Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain signatures by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions. You are fully responsible for the content that you post. By Marc Kaufman Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, November 6, 2010; 8:20 PM The scientific search for extraterrestrial intelligence went global this weekend as observatories in 13 nations on five continents trained their telescopes on several promising star systems. This Story a.. Observatories on 5 continents to scan skies for extraterrestrial life b.. What message would you send to extraterrestrials? c.. A global search for extraterrestrial intelligence While they don't expect their one-day joint effort will find the kind of intentionally produced signal from afar that enthusiasts have been seeking for decades, participants say the undertaking illustrates just how far the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, or SETI, has come. Frank Drake made the world's first such observations at the Green Bank radio telescope in West Virginia 50 years ago, listening on a single-channel receiver that took in radio waves one frequency at a time. Today's technology allows scientists to receive radio signals at millions of different frequencies per minute, in addition to searching for laser-like bursts of light communication using optical telescopes. The international star-viewing extravaganza, the first of its kind, comes at a time of fast-paced discovery in the science of exoplanets, bodies that orbit suns beyond our solar system. Last month alone brought the announcement of the first Earth-sized planet found that appeared to be potentially habitable, as well as a study from top scientists in the field which concluded that the number of Earth-sized planets in the Milky Way alone could be counted in the tens of billions. Suddenly, the prospects for finding planets that might have complex life and environments to support it appear to have brightened. Scientists well in the future may still conclude Earth is the only planet that harbors life, but discoveries in the last few years seem to increase the odds that we are not alone after all. This is a real coming of age for exoplanets and for SETI, said Drake, who remains active in the field and whose founding of the science of SETI five decades ago was being commemorated as well over the weekend. It shows SETI has gone truly international, and it's happening when our knowledge about planets beyond Earth is just exploding, he said. We made predictions based on weak evidence 50 years ago and now a lot of that is, very satisfyingly, getting hard scientific support. Practical matter Doug Vakoch, a SETI Institute scientist who helped organize the effort, said the coordinated observing is probably most important for its practical side. What this weekend really does is begin the process of making it possible to track a possible SETI signal around the globe, he said. If a signal is detected, it has to be confirmed and followed, and now we're setting up a network to do that. The participating observatories are in Italy, India, Argentina, Australia, France, Germany, the United Kingdom, South Korea, Sweden, the Netherlands, and several in the United States and Japan.
Re: [meteorite-list] seti
Not if we've just begun! and even Albert E the great thought as much in the twilight of his life(just begun that is) Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Neil Caliva [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] seti Thanks for all the emails and links. It seems like such a waste to be the only intelligent life in the universe, if thats so. From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Neil Caliva [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jonathan Gore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] seti Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 01:06:42 -0600 Hi, There is a huge difference between detecting and discriminating an INDIVIDUAL radio signal from the Earth at interstellar distances on the one hand and merely detecting the totality of the Earth's radio signals at interstellar distances, on the other. Surrounding the Earth is a shell of EM transmissions out to a radius of 94 light years. At the outer edge of that shell is Marconi's transmission of the letter S in 1901. Faint. But at radii of 84 light years and again at 57 light years, quantum leaps in intensity occur. (That's the onset of commercial radio and commercial television respectively.) The TOTAL radio emissions of the Earth are TWICE AS BRIGHT AS THE SUN. Every radio astronomer within that inner 100 light year sphere (if there ARE any radio astronomers out there) is confronted with the paradox of a normal type G star which has an optically invisible companion which has twice the luminosity in the radio spectrum as the visible star! Studies of the motion of the invisible companion would show it to be in orbit around the normal star. There is only one possible explanation of an optico-radio binary star. That is, that the normal star has a planet which is SCREAMING its head off in the radio spectrum! And it's only getting noisier with every passing year, louder and louder! As for directed transmissions, we already have interplanetary radar signals that are 10,000,000,000 times brighter than the Sun! As an interstellar neighbor, the Earth is kind of like that guy on the subway toting the 300 pound ghetto blaster! If you have any hope that the aliens haven't noticed us yet, you can forget all about them. Which is why I find the beautiful dream of SETI to be just that: a beautiful dream. A Kardashev Level Two civilization (one which utlizes the full energy resources of an entire solar system) should be roughly the radio luminosity of a QUASAR! It would be visible in the EM spectrum at 100,000 light years distant (if the civilization survived for that long). In 300 to 500 years, WE will (I hope) be a fledging Kardashev Level Two civilization. There will be millions of powerful comet-hunting radars in the Kuiper Belt and the Inner Oort Cloud, billions of radar beacons on every rock in the system, trillions of TV channels (how many re-runs of the ancient classics like The Brady Bunch?), and an inconceivable number of interplanetary cell phones (most of them on hold and playing space elevator music). Our solar system will probably be the brightest radio source in the Milky Way Galaxy. If there are any aliens out there, you know, great wise space-traveling advanced aliens, WHERE are their home systems and WHY are there no bright artificial radio sources? If there is an interstellar civilization or many such, you shouldn't be able to point a radio detector to the heavens without having your ears blown off. We should be awash in a cacophony of re-runs of the Arcturian I Love Lucy or the Tau Ceti Milton Berle. I say this as a person who, for many years, DONATED more money to SETI than I spent on, say, buying meteorites, or even books, so I was not without hope in that dream. But I have concluded that it was just that... a dream. Sterling K. Webb --- Neil Caliva wrote: Hi List, How far could our EM signals generated by humans be detected? Sorry if this is off topic!!! -NC _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] seti
Thanks for all the emails and links. It seems like such a waste to be the only intelligent life in the universe, if thats so. From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Neil Caliva [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jonathan Gore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] seti Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 01:06:42 -0600 Hi, There is a huge difference between detecting and discriminating an INDIVIDUAL radio signal from the Earth at interstellar distances on the one hand and merely detecting the totality of the Earth's radio signals at interstellar distances, on the other. Surrounding the Earth is a shell of EM transmissions out to a radius of 94 light years. At the outer edge of that shell is Marconi's transmission of the letter S in 1901. Faint. But at radii of 84 light years and again at 57 light years, quantum leaps in intensity occur. (That's the onset of commercial radio and commercial television respectively.) The TOTAL radio emissions of the Earth are TWICE AS BRIGHT AS THE SUN. Every radio astronomer within that inner 100 light year sphere (if there ARE any radio astronomers out there) is confronted with the paradox of a normal type G star which has an optically invisible companion which has twice the luminosity in the radio spectrum as the visible star! Studies of the motion of the invisible companion would show it to be in orbit around the normal star. There is only one possible explanation of an optico-radio binary star. That is, that the normal star has a planet which is SCREAMING its head off in the radio spectrum! And it's only getting noisier with every passing year, louder and louder! As for directed transmissions, we already have interplanetary radar signals that are 10,000,000,000 times brighter than the Sun! As an interstellar neighbor, the Earth is kind of like that guy on the subway toting the 300 pound ghetto blaster! If you have any hope that the aliens haven't noticed us yet, you can forget all about them. Which is why I find the beautiful dream of SETI to be just that: a beautiful dream. A Kardashev Level Two civilization (one which utlizes the full energy resources of an entire solar system) should be roughly the radio luminosity of a QUASAR! It would be visible in the EM spectrum at 100,000 light years distant (if the civilization survived for that long). In 300 to 500 years, WE will (I hope) be a fledging Kardashev Level Two civilization. There will be millions of powerful comet-hunting radars in the Kuiper Belt and the Inner Oort Cloud, billions of radar beacons on every rock in the system, trillions of TV channels (how many re-runs of the ancient classics like The Brady Bunch?), and an inconceivable number of interplanetary cell phones (most of them on hold and playing space elevator music). Our solar system will probably be the brightest radio source in the Milky Way Galaxy. If there are any aliens out there, you know, great wise space-traveling advanced aliens, WHERE are their home systems and WHY are there no bright artificial radio sources? If there is an interstellar civilization or many such, you shouldn't be able to point a radio detector to the heavens without having your ears blown off. We should be awash in a cacophony of re-runs of the Arcturian I Love Lucy or the Tau Ceti Milton Berle. I say this as a person who, for many years, DONATED more money to SETI than I spent on, say, buying meteorites, or even books, so I was not without hope in that dream. But I have concluded that it was just that... a dream. Sterling K. Webb --- Neil Caliva wrote: Hi List, How far could our EM signals generated by humans be detected? Sorry if this is off topic!!! -NC _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] seti
Hi List, How far could our EM signals generated by humans be detected? Sorry if this is off topic!!! -NC _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] seti
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:57:40 +, Neil Caliva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi List, How far could our EM signals generated by humans be detected? It depends on the size of the radio antenna/telescope. See: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/astronomy/faq/part6/section-12.html http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_shostak_aliens_031023.html http://contactincontext.org/cic/v2i1/lucy.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] seti
Neil Caliva wrote: How far could our EM signals generated by humans be detected? This was answered in the QA of the May/June 2005 issue of the Planetary Report; it says military EM signals could be detected out to about 50 light-years if the aliens used a dish the size the of the dish at Arecibo and most signals (like TV signals) could be detected out to 1 light-year or less with antennas similar in size to ours. However, an astrophysicist told me that we could be detected out to a few hundred light-years if we tried really hard. But if the source signal is directional (most of the EM signals that travel furthest are) wouldn't that cause more complications? -- Since you would have to match the direction of the EM signal. Jonathan __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] seti
Hi, There is a huge difference between detecting and discriminating an INDIVIDUAL radio signal from the Earth at interstellar distances on the one hand and merely detecting the totality of the Earth's radio signals at interstellar distances, on the other. Surrounding the Earth is a shell of EM transmissions out to a radius of 94 light years. At the outer edge of that shell is Marconi's transmission of the letter S in 1901. Faint. But at radii of 84 light years and again at 57 light years, quantum leaps in intensity occur. (That's the onset of commercial radio and commercial television respectively.) The TOTAL radio emissions of the Earth are TWICE AS BRIGHT AS THE SUN. Every radio astronomer within that inner 100 light year sphere (if there ARE any radio astronomers out there) is confronted with the paradox of a normal type G star which has an optically invisible companion which has twice the luminosity in the radio spectrum as the visible star! Studies of the motion of the invisible companion would show it to be in orbit around the normal star. There is only one possible explanation of an optico-radio binary star. That is, that the normal star has a planet which is SCREAMING its head off in the radio spectrum! And it's only getting noisier with every passing year, louder and louder! As for directed transmissions, we already have interplanetary radar signals that are 10,000,000,000 times brighter than the Sun! As an interstellar neighbor, the Earth is kind of like that guy on the subway toting the 300 pound ghetto blaster! If you have any hope that the aliens haven't noticed us yet, you can forget all about them. Which is why I find the beautiful dream of SETI to be just that: a beautiful dream. A Kardashev Level Two civilization (one which utlizes the full energy resources of an entire solar system) should be roughly the radio luminosity of a QUASAR! It would be visible in the EM spectrum at 100,000 light years distant (if the civilization survived for that long). In 300 to 500 years, WE will (I hope) be a fledging Kardashev Level Two civilization. There will be millions of powerful comet-hunting radars in the Kuiper Belt and the Inner Oort Cloud, billions of radar beacons on every rock in the system, trillions of TV channels (how many re-runs of the ancient classics like The Brady Bunch?), and an inconceivable number of interplanetary cell phones (most of them on hold and playing space elevator music). Our solar system will probably be the brightest radio source in the Milky Way Galaxy. If there are any aliens out there, you know, great wise space-traveling advanced aliens, WHERE are their home systems and WHY are there no bright artificial radio sources? If there is an interstellar civilization or many such, you shouldn't be able to point a radio detector to the heavens without having your ears blown off. We should be awash in a cacophony of re-runs of the Arcturian I Love Lucy or the Tau Ceti Milton Berle. I say this as a person who, for many years, DONATED more money to SETI than I spent on, say, buying meteorites, or even books, so I was not without hope in that dream. But I have concluded that it was just that... a dream. Sterling K. Webb --- Neil Caliva wrote: Hi List, How far could our EM signals generated by humans be detected? Sorry if this is off topic!!! -NC __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
