Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-20 Thread Jeff Kuyken

Hi Dave,


I believe fusion crust is created not only by the heat of atmospheric
friction but also by the heat generated through high pressures, the latter
generated by a column of molecules simply not having the time to get out 
of

the way being rapidly compressed rather than smoothly displaced.


This was actually discussed several years ago here on the list. Space.com 
also wrote about this in a myths article around the same time I think it 
was.


http://www.meteorites.com.au/oddsends/myths.html

Cheers,

Jeff



- Original Message - 
From: Dave Gheesling d...@fallingrocks.com

To: cyna...@charter.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?



Darren/All,

The thinner atmosphere on Mars -- and the lower minimum atmospheric entry
velocity due to its gravity -- should only mean that the modeling to 
produce

surviving meteorites that look just like they look on Earth would be
different for Mars re: entry velocities and angles, etc.  Presumably this
data already exists, and if anyone has seen it please pass it along...

I believe fusion crust is created not only by the heat of atmospheric
friction but also by the heat generated through high pressures, the latter
generated by a column of molecules simply not having the time to get out 
of

the way being rapidly compressed rather than smoothly displaced.
Regardless, ablation is indeed a fact.  Meteorites don't enter our
atmosphere attached to spheres, and presumably that artificial contraption
may have made for a different-than-typical result.

Think horse, not zebra, and think Occam's Razor.  There is no doubt much
left to be learned, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary 
evidence.

An open mind is essential, but I'm not sure a predisposition to assume the
utterly remarkable is called for here just yet.  I would also like to hear
from potential resources who might be holding off on the publication of
something fascinating; if memory serves, it was essentially the lack of
agreement on the impact structure in Peru that led to the digging in of
heels on opposing sides, but I was unaware that uncovered anomalies may 
not

yet have been published and would very much like to learn more...

All best,

Dave
www.fallingrocks.com
-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren
Garrison
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:07 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

Off-list argument relisted because-- well, the content has great potential
for much wise input from other list members.

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:11:45 -0700, you wrote:


Lets back up a bit here. You know very well that my posts usually argue
against what we think we know. I think there is an over average amount
of guessing in meteoritics when compared to other Sciences.
There are a great deal of things that we simply have no way of knowing.
There is a well known photo of a meteorite sitting on Mars. We know
it's a meteorite because it looks just like they look on Earth. Why is

that?

Do they Ablate the same while traveling through Mars' atmosphere?


Answer-- no.  Mars has a much, much, much thinner atmosphere than Earth.
There will be ablation, but not to the same degree.


this ablation question came up was to question whether or not we know
what meteorites look like prior to entry into Earths atmosphere.


Many asteroids have been imaged while in space.  Some have been studied 
from
close-up.  Some small ones have been photographed very near earth.  We 
know

what THEY look like in space, and have no reason to assume that the ones
that happen to intersect with Earth's orbit would look different from the
others.  Moreover, none of the asteroids we photograph in space have
anything resembling a fusion crust, nor do we know a mechanism by which an
asteroid is space would require a fusion crust.  Moreover, even if a
meteorite HAD a crust formed over it in space, the crust meteorites is
composed of the same material of which the meteorite is composed (or an
oxidized version of same) -- material with a melting point far below the
temperature meteorites are known to experience as they pass through the
atmosphere.  Therefore, any crust formed in space would burn off during
atmospheric entry.


I mentioned this study to point out that not all material ablates to
form a fusion crust that would change it's appearance.


That may be what you meant-- but it is NOT what you said.  You said that
ablation did not take place, which is not true.  Not only were the samples
ablated, but they were improperly placed on the heat shield so as to not 
be

at the maximum heat point where they were supposed to be-- ablation would
have been even higher (possibly complete) if the samples had been properly
placed.  AND at least one of the samples weren't properly

Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-20 Thread Dave Gheesling
Jeff/All,
Thanks for that link.  I was trying to add pressure to friction from an
earlier post, and your link is super...
Much appreciated,
Dave 

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Kuyken [mailto:i...@meteorites.com.au] 
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:11 AM
To: d...@fallingrocks.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

Hi Dave,

 I believe fusion crust is created not only by the heat of atmospheric 
 friction but also by the heat generated through high pressures, the 
 latter generated by a column of molecules simply not having the time 
 to get out of the way being rapidly compressed rather than smoothly 
 displaced.

This was actually discussed several years ago here on the list. Space.com
also wrote about this in a myths article around the same time I think it
was.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/oddsends/myths.html

Cheers,

Jeff



- Original Message -
From: Dave Gheesling d...@fallingrocks.com
To: cyna...@charter.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?


 Darren/All,

 The thinner atmosphere on Mars -- and the lower minimum atmospheric entry
 velocity due to its gravity -- should only mean that the modeling to 
 produce
 surviving meteorites that look just like they look on Earth would be
 different for Mars re: entry velocities and angles, etc.  Presumably this
 data already exists, and if anyone has seen it please pass it along...

 I believe fusion crust is created not only by the heat of atmospheric
 friction but also by the heat generated through high pressures, the latter
 generated by a column of molecules simply not having the time to get out 
 of
 the way being rapidly compressed rather than smoothly displaced.
 Regardless, ablation is indeed a fact.  Meteorites don't enter our
 atmosphere attached to spheres, and presumably that artificial contraption
 may have made for a different-than-typical result.

 Think horse, not zebra, and think Occam's Razor.  There is no doubt much
 left to be learned, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary 
 evidence.
 An open mind is essential, but I'm not sure a predisposition to assume the
 utterly remarkable is called for here just yet.  I would also like to hear
 from potential resources who might be holding off on the publication of
 something fascinating; if memory serves, it was essentially the lack of
 agreement on the impact structure in Peru that led to the digging in of
 heels on opposing sides, but I was unaware that uncovered anomalies may 
 not
 yet have been published and would very much like to learn more...

 All best,

 Dave
 www.fallingrocks.com
 -Original Message-
 From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
 [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren
 Garrison
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:07 AM
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

 Off-list argument relisted because-- well, the content has great potential
 for much wise input from other list members.

 On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:11:45 -0700, you wrote:

Lets back up a bit here. You know very well that my posts usually argue
against what we think we know. I think there is an over average amount
of guessing in meteoritics when compared to other Sciences.
There are a great deal of things that we simply have no way of knowing.
There is a well known photo of a meteorite sitting on Mars. We know
it's a meteorite because it looks just like they look on Earth. Why is
 that?
Do they Ablate the same while traveling through Mars' atmosphere?

 Answer-- no.  Mars has a much, much, much thinner atmosphere than Earth.
 There will be ablation, but not to the same degree.

this ablation question came up was to question whether or not we know
what meteorites look like prior to entry into Earths atmosphere.

 Many asteroids have been imaged while in space.  Some have been studied 
 from
 close-up.  Some small ones have been photographed very near earth.  We 
 know
 what THEY look like in space, and have no reason to assume that the ones
 that happen to intersect with Earth's orbit would look different from the
 others.  Moreover, none of the asteroids we photograph in space have
 anything resembling a fusion crust, nor do we know a mechanism by which an
 asteroid is space would require a fusion crust.  Moreover, even if a
 meteorite HAD a crust formed over it in space, the crust meteorites is
 composed of the same material of which the meteorite is composed (or an
 oxidized version of same) -- material with a melting point far below the
 temperature meteorites are known to experience as they pass through the
 atmosphere.  Therefore, any crust formed in space would burn off during
 atmospheric entry.

I mentioned this study to point out that not all material ablates to
form a fusion crust that would change it's appearance.

 That may

Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-19 Thread cdtucson
Michael,

This article you posted is dated Sept. 24th. We were there on the 18th and the 
smell was already gone. The locals described it to us as a sulfur smell more 
than Garlic but I don't think we asked about garlic so maybe it did smell of 
Garlic.

I do know that the water was boiling for several hours after the fall. Some 
suspect it was a chemical reaction with something but Carancas is filled with 
many mysteries that may never come to light. 

This smelly water was in fact the main drinking source for all of the livestock 
in the area. In fact this Meteorite actually hit directly the human maintained 
natural spring they drank from. So, my question is this; If this water was 
contaminated how then was it the main drinking sour se for the area? Would the 
arsenic not have effected the people and animals that drank from it? Again, 
This is but one of dozens of mysteries yet to be fully answered. This material 
has been shown to have a very odd cosmochemistry. So much so that scientists 
are unwilling to publish the results. It has been described as inexplicable. 
This was largely a farming community not a mining one but was on land that was 
once a part of lake Titicaca, 

Maybe you can figure this out. Thanks 

Carl Esparza

IMCA 5829

Meteoritemax


 Michael Bross elemen...@peconic.net wrote: 
 Hi List
 
 I am coming like hair in the soup... about Carancas, seeing the just 
 recent exchanges :)
 but following the post about Staten Island today I did some search on 
 NYTimes website
 
 and got to this article from 2007 in the first 10 hits:
 (http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/24/perus-meteor-illness-explained-invitation-extended/?scp=2sq=meteoritest=cse)
 
 Was the Arsenic theory ever proven ?
 Did anybody from the List, on site at the time, remember a like garlic 
 smell, which is typical for
 most of arsenic forms ? (Although, some forms or in small quantities would 
 not yield a strong garlic smell)
 
 If not, any further studies and lab test about that smell ?
 
 Peru has been the place for a lot of mining waste recycling from US and 
 elsewhere.
 Copper, gold, silver ores can contain quite some Arsenic (in Philippines up 
 to 14% !)
 I remember also Tacoma, Washington, where we got to the arsenic kitchen 
 site from an
 old smelter place (beginning 20th century)... the underground soil smelt 
 like a huge pot of cooked garlic :)
 
 I know... it is not the main interest on this list.
 But having been quite active in arsenic cleaning in soils and groundwater... 
 I enjoy seeing
 this Carancas story including probable (?) arsenic release
 
 A bientot
 Michael B, France 
 
 
 
 __
 http://www.meteoritecentral.com
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
__
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-19 Thread Darren Garrison
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:47:04 -0700, you wrote:

This material has been shown to have a very odd 
cosmochemistry. So much so that scientists are 
unwilling to publish the results. 

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45817

Okay, some of you on the list have close ties with real meteorite scientists--
some of you ARE real meteorite scientists.  Do any of you know anything about
Carancas being anything other than the H4-4 ordinary chondrite that it is
published to be?  Anyone have very odd cosmochemistry results that you are
unwilling to publish?  (Whisper in our ear, we won't tell anyone.)
__
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-19 Thread Pekka Savolainen

Darren Garrison kirjoitti:

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:47:04 -0700, you wrote:

  
This material has been shown to have a very odd 
cosmochemistry. So much so that scientists are 
unwilling to publish the results. 



http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45817

Okay, some of you on the list have close ties with real meteorite scientists--
some of you ARE real meteorite scientists.  Do any of you know anything about
Carancas being anything other than the H4-4 ordinary chondrite that it is
published to be?  Anyone have very odd cosmochemistry results that you are
unwilling to publish?  (Whisper in our ear, we won't tell anyone.)
  

-

The truth is out there ... (whispering)

http://www.area51zone.com/


__
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-19 Thread cdtucson
Darren,
 I have no idea who you are but from your posts I thought you of all people 
might know the difference between a meteorite classification and the study of a 
meteorites Cosmochemistry. Obviously you don't. Maybe you should try a Google 
search before you Try to make other people look stupid. The joke may be on you 
Mr. know-it-all Do you think I make this stuff up for your amusement? I 
know your not singling me out. You insult everybody.
I do notice that none of your snide remarks ever do offer the list any thing of 
any significant value. You just remind me of a bully. that's all. 
. 

 Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net wrote: 
 On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:47:04 -0700, you wrote:
 
 This material has been shown to have a very odd 
 cosmochemistry. So much so that scientists are 
 unwilling to publish the results. 
 
 http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45817
 
 Okay, some of you on the list have close ties with real meteorite scientists--
 some of you ARE real meteorite scientists.  Do any of you know anything about
 Carancas being anything other than the H4-4 ordinary chondrite that it is
 published to be?  Anyone have very odd cosmochemistry results that you are
 unwilling to publish?  (Whisper in our ear, we won't tell anyone.)
 __
 http://www.meteoritecentral.com
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
__
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-19 Thread Darren Garrison
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:13:06 -0400, you wrote:

 I have no idea who you are but from your posts I thought 
you of all people might know the difference between a meteorite 
classification and the study of a meteorites Cosmochemistry. 

Here's a hint for you-- by classifying a meteorite as an H4-5, one is saying
that the meteorite ultimately originated from the H4-5 parent body.  Which means
that it has the same cosmochemistry as every other H4-5 meteorite, which is--
BY DEFINITION-- what makes it a H4-5 meteorite.  If it had a different isotopic
makeup from H4-5 meteorites, it would not be classified as an H4-5 meteorite.

Maybe you should try a Google search before you Try to 
make other people look stupid. 

No need for me to do the work, you are doing an excellent job all by yourself.
__
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-19 Thread Michael Murray

Hi Carl,
Since we already have a one-on-one email thing going here posted for  
the whole list to see, I hope you don't mind my jumping in with my 2  
cents.


To my way of thinking, Darren seems to be spot-on for the most part  
with his usually brief but informative posts, which are pretty much  
always meteorite related.  And sometimes he's a little entertaining  
while at it.  That's good.  After reading Darren's posts for some  
years now, I haven't come to see his comments as bullying.   Usually,  
its more of a case of pointing out something that stands out.


Hope you don't take offense to my piping up here.
Mike


On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:13 PM, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net  
wrote:



Darren,
I have no idea who you are but from your posts I thought you of all  
people might know the difference between a meteorite classification  
and the study of a meteorites Cosmochemistry. Obviously you don't.  
Maybe you should try a Google search before you Try to make other  
people look stupid. The joke may be on you Mr. know-it-all Do  
you think I make this stuff up for your amusement? I know your not  
singling me out. You insult everybody.
I do notice that none of your snide remarks ever do offer the list  
any thing of any significant value. You just remind me of a bully.  
that's all.

.

 Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net wrote:

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:47:04 -0700, you wrote:


This material has been shown to have a very odd
cosmochemistry. So much so that scientists are
unwilling to publish the results.


http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45817

Okay, some of you on the list have close ties with real meteorite  
scientists--
some of you ARE real meteorite scientists.  Do any of you know  
anything about
Carancas being anything other than the H4-4 ordinary chondrite that  
it is
published to be?  Anyone have very odd cosmochemistry results  
that you are

unwilling to publish?  (Whisper in our ear, we won't tell anyone.)
__
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

__
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


__
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-19 Thread Darren Garrison
Off-list argument relisted because-- well, the content has great potential for
much wise input from other list members.

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:11:45 -0700, you wrote:

Lets back up a bit here. You know very well that my posts usually 
argue against what we think we know. I think there is an over average 
amount of guessing in meteoritics when compared to other Sciences. 
There are a great deal of things that we simply have no way of knowing. 
There is a well known photo of a meteorite sitting on Mars. We know it‘s 
a meteorite because it looks just like they look on Earth. Why is that? 
Do they Ablate the same while traveling through Mars‘ atmosphere? 

Answer-- no.  Mars has a much, much, much thinner atmosphere than Earth.  There
will be ablation, but not to the same degree.

this ablation question came up was to question whether or not we know what 
meteorites look like prior to entry into Earths atmosphere. 

Many asteroids have been imaged while in space.  Some have been studied from
close-up.  Some small ones have been photographed very near earth.  We know what
THEY look like in space, and have no reason to assume that the ones that happen
to intersect with Earth's orbit would look different from the others.  Moreover,
none of the asteroids we photograph in space have anything resembling a fusion
crust, nor do we know a mechanism by which an asteroid is space would require a
fusion crust.  Moreover, even if a meteorite HAD a crust formed over it in
space, the crust meteorites is composed of the same material of which the
meteorite is composed (or an oxidized version of same) -- material with a
melting point far below the temperature meteorites are known to experience as
they pass through the atmosphere.  Therefore, any crust formed in space would
burn off during atmospheric entry.

I mentioned this study to point out that not all material ablates to form a 
fusion crust that would change it’s appearance. 

That may be what you meant-- but it is NOT what you said.  You said that
ablation did not take place, which is not true.  Not only were the samples
ablated, but they were improperly placed on the heat shield so as to not be at
the maximum heat point where they were supposed to be-- ablation would have been
even higher (possibly complete) if the samples had been properly placed.  AND at
least one of the samples weren't properly assembled so as to protect the
bacterial samples on the bottom (and who knows what happened to material lost
completely):

http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EPSC2008/00407/EPSC2008-A-00407-1.pdf


at some point in their journey. And by the way the wind pressure while 
traveling out to space could have done this damage to the rocks. 

No.

We cannot assume the ablation was caused by reentry at all. 

Yes, we can.

In fact because no black crust appeared we can say that this experiment 
proved nothing about the actual cause of black crust at all. 

We know what causes the black crust-- melting of the meteorite's surface due to
the heat of atmospheric friction.

Maybe if they had fusion crust prior to reentry they would have ablated less? 

No.  Because the fusion crust is made of the exact same material as the rest of
the meteorite, with the same melting point.  If anything, it would have began
ablation MORE QUICKLY because the black crust would absorb more heat.  Basic
physics.

looked like prior to entry. I went on to point out that we have all seem
pictures of meteors fly across the sky only to re-exit our atmosphere. 

Okay, I'll give you that one.  One of the rare meteoroids that enters the
atmosphere deep enough to start ablating but then skips back into space likely
has a fusion crust.  A fusion crust formed by Earth's atmosphere, like other
fusion crusts.

survive while others don’t. Maybe something else gives them this tough surface 
we call fusion crust? This is one of the questions I have . 

The fusion crust isn't tough-- it is a very thin, very fragile thing that
weathers away very quickly if the meteorite isn't found and rescued from the
weather.

Another is why have we not figured out an easy way to authenticate whether 
a rock is even from space. 

And there never will be a easy way-- if it looks like a meteorite to someone who
knows meteorites, well, then it can be tested.  But any meteorite that looks
just like an ordinary rock, in an area where you would expect to find ordinary
rocks, will sit there forever without being tested. 

Moon rocks the only way to tell them apart is by chemical analysis. 
So, you find a rock from the moon with no crust all scientist assume 
it is from Earth. 

Not always true.  As Randy Korotev himself pointed out once on the list when
discussing possible lunar breccias, a lunar breccia will have random sized
pieces (some very small, some very large) that are not rounded-- terrestrial
sedementary breccias will usually have all the pieces of a similar size, with
rounded surfaces.  Look at photos of lunar breccias on google and you'll 

Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

2009-03-19 Thread Dave Gheesling
Darren/All,

The thinner atmosphere on Mars -- and the lower minimum atmospheric entry
velocity due to its gravity -- should only mean that the modeling to produce
surviving meteorites that look just like they look on Earth would be
different for Mars re: entry velocities and angles, etc.  Presumably this
data already exists, and if anyone has seen it please pass it along...

I believe fusion crust is created not only by the heat of atmospheric
friction but also by the heat generated through high pressures, the latter
generated by a column of molecules simply not having the time to get out of
the way being rapidly compressed rather than smoothly displaced.
Regardless, ablation is indeed a fact.  Meteorites don't enter our
atmosphere attached to spheres, and presumably that artificial contraption
may have made for a different-than-typical result.

Think horse, not zebra, and think Occam's Razor.  There is no doubt much
left to be learned, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
An open mind is essential, but I'm not sure a predisposition to assume the
utterly remarkable is called for here just yet.  I would also like to hear
from potential resources who might be holding off on the publication of
something fascinating; if memory serves, it was essentially the lack of
agreement on the impact structure in Peru that led to the digging in of
heels on opposing sides, but I was unaware that uncovered anomalies may not
yet have been published and would very much like to learn more...

All best,

Dave
www.fallingrocks.com
-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren
Garrison
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:07 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas: Arsenic smell ?

Off-list argument relisted because-- well, the content has great potential
for much wise input from other list members.

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:11:45 -0700, you wrote:

Lets back up a bit here. You know very well that my posts usually argue 
against what we think we know. I think there is an over average amount 
of guessing in meteoritics when compared to other Sciences.
There are a great deal of things that we simply have no way of knowing. 
There is a well known photo of a meteorite sitting on Mars. We know 
it's a meteorite because it looks just like they look on Earth. Why is
that?
Do they Ablate the same while traveling through Mars' atmosphere? 

Answer-- no.  Mars has a much, much, much thinner atmosphere than Earth.
There will be ablation, but not to the same degree.

this ablation question came up was to question whether or not we know 
what meteorites look like prior to entry into Earths atmosphere.

Many asteroids have been imaged while in space.  Some have been studied from
close-up.  Some small ones have been photographed very near earth.  We know
what THEY look like in space, and have no reason to assume that the ones
that happen to intersect with Earth's orbit would look different from the
others.  Moreover, none of the asteroids we photograph in space have
anything resembling a fusion crust, nor do we know a mechanism by which an
asteroid is space would require a fusion crust.  Moreover, even if a
meteorite HAD a crust formed over it in space, the crust meteorites is
composed of the same material of which the meteorite is composed (or an
oxidized version of same) -- material with a melting point far below the
temperature meteorites are known to experience as they pass through the
atmosphere.  Therefore, any crust formed in space would burn off during
atmospheric entry.

I mentioned this study to point out that not all material ablates to 
form a fusion crust that would change it's appearance.

That may be what you meant-- but it is NOT what you said.  You said that
ablation did not take place, which is not true.  Not only were the samples
ablated, but they were improperly placed on the heat shield so as to not be
at the maximum heat point where they were supposed to be-- ablation would
have been even higher (possibly complete) if the samples had been properly
placed.  AND at least one of the samples weren't properly assembled so as to
protect the bacterial samples on the bottom (and who knows what happened to
material lost
completely):

http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EPSC2008/00407/EPSC2008-A-00407-1.pdf


at some point in their journey. And by the way the wind pressure while 
traveling out to space could have done this damage to the rocks.

No.

We cannot assume the ablation was caused by reentry at all. 

Yes, we can.

In fact because no black crust appeared we can say that this experiment 
proved nothing about the actual cause of black crust at all.

We know what causes the black crust-- melting of the meteorite's surface due
to the heat of atmospheric friction.

Maybe if they had fusion crust prior to reentry they would have ablated
less? 

No.  Because the fusion crust