Brian Suda recently said:
the problem with using Meta elements is that they are out-side
of human-readable realm. One of the key factors in microformats
is to keep the data visible, it keeps it fresh, prevents many of
the abuses that have befallen meta-keywords, and also allows
for
On 10/22/06 11:10 PM, Mike Schinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Brian Suda recently said:
the problem with using Meta elements is that they are out-side
of human-readable realm. One of the key factors in microformats
is to keep the data visible, it keeps it fresh, prevents many of
the
There is no http://microformats.org/wiki/related-formats page but I had
already started one here:
http://microformats.org/wiki/Advocacy
-Mike
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan
King
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 1:55 PM
To:
1.) It seems like it should be a Design Pattern and not just something
for a single Microformat
--- we do, ...
Point of clarification, I meant that we specify a solution that could be
used multiple places as opposed to one that just applied to money. The
include pattern is a syntax for which
Rather than including policies suggestions only in an email, can we please
make sure that all policies make their way to
http://microformats.org/mailinglists-policies/
I don't want to be liable for having studied all emails on this subject, and
I doubt any newbies will go back into the email
It is most often simply properties of the information which are still
relevant to the user and thus should be visible.
Okay, I think I can probably agree while still holding out the potential to
uncover needs in the future that do not fit that pattern.
If it is not worth or appropriate to make
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Benjamin West [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Perhaps you could be more clear about what it is you want to know.
...
What do you mean by authoring practices?
...
What do you mean by the structure of the markup?
...
I don't know how to be any more clear.
I find it odd
On 10/23/06 12:11 AM, Mike Schinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If it is not worth or appropriate to make the information visible, then
it is not worth trusting the information and certainly not worth the time to
make a microformat for it.
But what if the website publisher (or graphic
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Rarely is metadata actually metadata.
It is most often simply properties of the information which are still
relevant to the user and thus should be visible.
If it is not worth or appropriate to make the information visible,
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
But what if the website publisher (or graphic designer) does not want that
information to be visible on the page?
Then it is not worth trusting the information nor worth the time making a
microformat for it.
Again,
Hello Andy,
On 10/23/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Rarely is metadata actually metadata.
It is most often simply properties of the information which are still
relevant to the user and thus should be visible.
If
On 10/23/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Consider a page of events, with variable start times; and an
introductory paragraph which says all events last for two hours.
You're saying that the microformat should not include a dtend with the
end time, for each event, because that end time
Then it is not worth trusting the information nor worth the time making a
microformat for it.
Respectfully, I disagree. I'm also a bit allergic to statements asserting
the absoluteness of a concept especially when it is *harder* to prove there
is not a needle in a haystack than it is to find
On 22/10/06, Benjamin West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps you could be more clear about what it is you want to know.
...
What do you mean by authoring practices?
...
What do you mean by the structure of the markup?
...
I don't know how to be any more clear. I've assumed up until now that
On 10/23/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What do you mean by authoring practices?
...
What do you mean by the structure of the markup?
...
I don't know how to be any more clear.
I find it odd that you decline to answer such straightforward questions
(and others in my same post,
Brian Suda wrote:
--- there are elements in HTML which convay more semantic information.
Gotcha, thanks.
The next step is to explicitly label that abbr so parser know it is the
TYPE.
span class=currencyabbr class=type title=USD$/abbr5.99/span
This gets back to what I was trying to get away
Good point. Then I would ask whoever maintains that to incorporate
suggestions somehow.
-Mike
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy
Mabbett
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:19 AM
To: Microformats Discuss
Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] [admin]
One minor nit - please use all lowercase names for wiki pages, see:
Funny. I first did it in lowercase and then though, Oh, I better
capitalize it so I moved to the capitalized equivalent. :)
-Mike
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Good morning List,
I have a quick question about include pattern usage and visible data.
A while ago I was playing around with drafting something for the
hChatLog effort (I haven't got anywhere yet, really) but will use it
as an example, since I think the use of include-pattern is nicely
On 23/10/06, Mike Schinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But, as I said before if I'm the only one concerned about it then I won't
try to continue to fight this battle...
Mike, I agree with you on this one. I believe imposing complexity
could well discourage adoption. Having deep pool of attributes
Anyone seen the attention profiling mark-up language?
Any thoughts? They've got a draft spec:
http://www.touchstonelive.com/apml/spec/APML%20v0.5%20Draft%20Specification%20v0.2.pdf
I talked with them -- they're down with microformats... but, is this a
good application for XHTML data
I'm not Tantek, but you're use-case seems eminently reasonable, and
Thanks!
I'd suggest could be solved using an appropriate new [EMAIL PROTECTED], and
then
convicing the search engines to pay attention to it ;-)
Do you mean in head? Did you see my earlier comments about wikis, CMS,
For the specific example you mention, the '2 hours' declaration could
probably be used as the DURATION (probably with an ABBR) and then
transcluded into each VEVENT using the include-pattern.
do many parsers out there support include-pattern yet?
... whereas any older or very simple
On 10/23/06, Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For the specific example you mention, the '2 hours' declaration could
probably be used as the DURATION (probably with an ABBR) and then
transcluded into each VEVENT using the include-pattern.
do many parsers out there support include-pattern
On 10/23/06, Mike Schinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd suggest could be solved using an appropriate new [EMAIL PROTECTED], and
then
convicing the search engines to pay attention to it ;-)
Do you mean in head? Did you see my earlier comments about wikis, CMS,
and forums, where the user
On 10/22/06, Ciaran McNulty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Consider a scenario where someone has saved a page locally, or is
viewing it through a cache such as Google's, it'd be a mistake to
infer the URL as C:\Temp\whatever, for instance.
These are edge cases, but worth thinking about.
--- i would
On 10/23/06, Mike Schinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- you don't need the W3C in this situation, Atom which is an IETF
standard has introduced several new rel values. So it would be possible to
introduce values through RFCs as well as W3C Recommendations.
So we can add REL attributes to
On 22/10/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm ambivalent; but another taxonomist advised me, in e-mail, to avoid
binomial, as that is also used in mathematics. That seemed sensible to
me.
I'm going to poll a few experts on this. I'll let you know when I get
some feedback.
1:1 means that the field names are identical in each, not that the
use-case will always be the same. (Incidentally, I have seen vCards
made for businesses before...)
On 10/22/06, Brian Suda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/22/06, Costello, Roger L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Folks,
I am
On 10/23/06, Ben Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good morning List,
So in the context of a Microformats parser the hCards should be
included, and should replace the innerText.
There is still a debate about how exactly all of this works. At the
moment the way you have your HTML marked-up, the
On 23 Oct 2006, at 13:36, Brian Suda wrote:
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by
should it be documented, maybe we are talking about two different
things? There is a section about using the 'a' element.
http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern#hyperlink_include_example
If it is unclear and
Since there have been some discussion that have spanned over several
different thread and references to cross-over thread posts, i thought
i might try to collapse some of it and try and make it slightly less
situation specific.
There have been discussion on both the currency threads, the weights
On Oct 23, 2006, at 8:32 AM, Brian Suda wrote:
Since there have been some discussion that have spanned over several
different thread and references to cross-over thread posts, i thought
i might try to collapse some of it and try and make it slightly less
situation specific.
Thanks for
Thanks Brian and Ciaran for your help.
It'd be cool if there was one page with a big list of different microformat
code examples. Instead of having to dig around implementations. This would
help to give me a sense of the full breath of what I am capable of
accomplishing with hCalendar.
I was
On Oct 23, 2006, at 5:30 AM, Stephen Paul Weber wrote:
1:1 means that the field names are identical in each, not that the
use-case will always be the same. (Incidentally, I have seen vCards
made for businesses before...)
Quite - microformats are based on observing usage, not on theory.
huh? I thought technorati already had attention.xml, not to mention
whatever format attentiontrust uses.
On 10/23/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyone seen the attention profiling mark-up language?
Any thoughts? They've got a draft spec:
On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 12:06 +, Brian Suda wrote:
I think the best reference at the moment for how to extract data is
the hcard-parsing page (http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing), I
think you talked your way into understanding the concept, but i'll try
a few more examples that might
So, what if your take on this problem and use-case?
Search engines make use of shingles to identify pages and their
aliases. Some search engines employ teams of editors and solicit
feedback from the web community to ensure their aliasing techniques
are correct. As far as I can tell, this
I'm going to poll a few experts on this. I'll let you know when I get
some feedback.
It's probably more important to poll already published content, to
learn how the market place is already doing it. This is the whole
point of documenting examples, analyzing publishing behaviour, and
only
Andy, I don't want to get in the middle of a disagreement, but I think
that part of Ben's issue is that the terms you're asking about are
fairly self explanatory, or at least appear to be to him.
You aren't in the middle. I'm deliberately stepping back so that
others can comment. This is a
On Oct 21, 2006, at 7:11 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
There is no reference of the 'wiki' page for hCalendar, within our
outside the section headed specification, to the use of the
include-pattern.
You're right, there isn't. Could you add a note to http://
microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-issues ?
On Oct 20, 2006, at 2:17 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
My full question was:
Why is packet size relevant? The page concerned has many -
and some have dozens - of table rows in similar format.
Maybe I don't understand your question, then. Are you asking why is
packet size important with
On Oct 21, 2006, at 7:15 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
...
I did think of making them simple redirects to the hCalendar page,
but instead have said, for example:
...
One annoying thing about redirects in MediaWiki, is that it doesn't
really redirect (in the HTTP sense), it just renders the
Ryan,
Maybe taking it a step further, could there be a page with every specification
suite of how that microformat relates and can be used with other microformats?
Like how hCalendar can be used with include-pattern, hResume, or hCard?
I think this would expand people's understanding of what
On Oct 21, 2006, at 9:37 AM, Charles Roper wrote:
On 21/10/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think the intention is that the raw markup of a uF be
human-readable first.
This is a good point; what, exactly, should be human readable
first? I always assumed it was the rendered
On 23/10/06, Benjamin West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm going to poll a few experts on this. I'll let you know when I get
some feedback.
It's probably more important to poll already published content, to
learn how the market place is already doing it. This is the whole
point of documenting
On Oct 21, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Charles Roper wrote:
Can anyone give any real *disadvantages* to using output compression?
If you do it right, none. Some browsers, like IE 5 and maybe 6, have
problems with compressed, cached JavaScript and other weird edge
cases. However, most HTTP servers
On Oct 23, 2006, at 1:22 AM, Mike Schinkel wrote:
Good point. Then I would ask whoever maintains that to incorporate
suggestions somehow.
I like all of the suggestions I've seen. Tantek and I (the two list
admins/moderators) are going to review them and see about adding all
of them.
I work with experts in this field and so it's a simple task for me to
ask around.
Neat.
Going back to learning how the market place is doing it, I've yet to
see an example that uses the term binomial as a class name in markup.
If I find an example, I'll post it.
Great, that's exactly what I
On Oct 21, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
It seems to me that there should be some way to say that the URL of
an hCard or hCalendar event is the URL of the page itself, without
having to include a redundant, and accessibility-damaging link to
that page, on the page itself.
Why not
In message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Charles
Roper [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
The straw-man is based, I
believe, not on existing markup practice but on the ideal way of doing
things (as judged by Andy) based on existing, well founded,
terminology used in biology.
Partially that.
Firstly, it's not just
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andy Mabbett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Secondly, it reflects both the well-founds AND STRICTLY SPECIFIED
terminology used
well founded
[3] These which publish common names, but would be interested in
aliening those to the equivalent binominal
aliasing
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ryan
King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On Oct 20, 2006, at 2:17 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
My full question was:
Why is packet size relevant? The page concerned has many -
and some have dozens - of table rows in similar format.
Maybe I don't understand your
In message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Charles
Roper [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On 22/10/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm ambivalent; but another taxonomist advised me, in e-mail, to avoid
binomial, as that is also used in mathematics. That seemed sensible to
me.
I'm going to poll a few
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Charles Roper [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
I've yet to
see an example that uses the term binomial as a class name in markup.
I've always used sci, for binominal ands sub-species' names. There has
been some comment here, which I've happily accepted, that that wouldn't
be
On Oct 23, 2006, at 11:34 AM, Justin Thorp wrote:
Ryan,
Maybe taking it a step further,
How about we take the first step first? :D
could there be a page with every specification suite of how that
microformat relates and can be used with other microformats?
-ryan
On 10/23/06 10:43 AM, Benjamin West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
huh? I thought technorati already had attention.xml, not to mention
whatever format attentiontrust uses.
That was quite a while ago. The current work at rethinking attention.xml is
here: http://microformats.org/wiki/attention
As
On 10/23/06 12:35 PM, Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 23, 2006, at 11:34 AM, Justin Thorp wrote:
Ryan,
Maybe taking it a step further,
How about we take the first step first? :D
Exactly.
In general, instead of *talking* (writing, whatever) about taking *further*
steps, the
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On 10/23/06 12:35 PM, Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 23, 2006, at 11:34 AM, Justin Thorp wrote:
Ryan,
Maybe taking it a step further,
How about we take the first step first? :D
Exactly.
In general, instead of
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