Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Need for plain-language intros for each microformat

2007-09-07 Thread Andy Mabbett
On Fri, September 7, 2007 15:00, Eric A. Meyer wrote:

>>> or 2) leave the specs  where they are and create new -intro pages.
>>> I've seen [...] no one object to #2.

>> Then you haven't been paying full attention.

> For those of us who indeed haven't been paying full attention to
> this particular thread (guilty), a citation or three regarding objections
> to #2 would be greatly helpful.

This entire thread is archived on-line, starting at:
 


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Andy Mabbett
** via webmail **

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[uf-discuss] Re: Need for plain-language intros for each microformat

2007-09-07 Thread Eric A. Meyer

At 11:12 PM +0100 9/5/07, Andy Mabbett wrote:

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes



or 2) leave the specs  where they are and create new -intro pages.
I've seen [...] no one object to #2.


Then you haven't been paying full attention.


   For those of us who indeed haven't been paying full attention to 
this particular thread (guilty), a citation or three regarding 
objections to #2 would be greatly helpful.


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Eric A. Meyer  ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Principal, Complex Spiral Consulting   http://complexspiral.com/
"CSS: The Definitive Guide," "CSS2.0 Programmer's Reference,"
"Eric Meyer on CSS," and morehttp://meyerweb.com/eric/books/
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[uf-discuss] Re: Need for plain-language intros for each microformat

2007-09-05 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott 
Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes



or 2) leave the specs  where they are and create new -intro pages.

>I've seen [...] no one object to #2.

Then you haven't been paying full attention.

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Andy Mabbett
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Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Need for plain-language intros for each microformat

2007-09-05 Thread Scott Reynen

On Sep 5, 2007, at 2:34 PM, Ben Ward wrote:

Syntactically the URI would still work, however, semantically it  
would have
been broken, that is, it is bad to not only change URIs so that  
they 404 and
just plain don't work, but it is also bad to change the *meaning*  
of that

URI.


As long as there is a clear link to the specification from the
explanation, then I disagree that it's really changed the meaning
of the link target.


Whilst the ‘meaning’ in terms of microformats.org/wiki/hcard being  
a page about hCard would still be valid, the context in which that  
URL is used by publishers on the internet. Tutorials may link to  
the entire page accompanied by the text ‘read the hCard  
specification’, whilst other pieces could be linking to fragment  
identifiers within the page to reference a specific part of the spec.


I think if we all take a step back we'll find this tangent is rather  
pointless.  Two proposals have been made: 1) change the current root  
pages to be intros and create new -spec pages or 2) leave the specs  
where they are and create new -intro pages.  I've seen a few people  
object to #1 and no one object to #2.  So why not just do #2?  Does  
anyone actually think creating -intro pages is a bad idea?  It seems  
like we're just debating #1 for the sake of debating.


Peace,
Scott


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Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Need for plain-language intros for each microformat

2007-09-05 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ben 
Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes


Whilst the ‘meaning’ in terms of microformats.org/wiki/hcard being 
a page about hCard would still be valid, the context in which that URL 
is used by publishers on the internet. Tutorials may link to the entire 
page accompanied by the text ‘read the hCard specification’, whilst 
other pieces could be linking to fragment identifiers within the page 
to reference a specific part of the spec.


Can you back that up  with evidence, or is it just hypothetical 
speculation?


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Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Need for plain-language intros for each microformat

2007-09-05 Thread Ben Ward

On 5 Sep 2007, at 20:18, Toby A Inkster wrote:
Syntactically the URI would still work, however, semantically it  
would have
been broken, that is, it is bad to not only change URIs so that  
they 404 and
just plain don't work, but it is also bad to change the *meaning*  
of that

URI.


As long as there is a clear link to the specification from the
explanation, then I disagree that it's really changed the meaning
of the link target.


Whilst the ‘meaning’ in terms of microformats.org/wiki/hcard being a  
page about hCard would still be valid, the context in which that URL  
is used by publishers on the internet. Tutorials may link to the  
entire page accompanied by the text ‘read the hCard specification’,  
whilst other pieces could be linking to fragment identifiers within  
the page to reference a specific part of the spec.


As such, I also oppose that the specifications be moved from the  
current root locations. Potentially we could agree that future  
specifications include ‘-spec’ in the URL, but current URLs and  
content IDs need to remain the same.


I would move that plain text ‘-info’ pieces be written for each spec  
and an introductory paragraph from each be placed at the top of each  
spec to more accessibly introduce the document, with a link to the  
‘All about hCard’ page.


Regards,

Ben
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[uf-discuss] Re: Need for plain-language intros for each microformat

2007-09-05 Thread Toby A Inkster
Tantek =?ISO-8859-1?B?xw==?=elik wrote:

> Syntactically the URI would still work, however, semantically it would have
> been broken, that is, it is bad to not only change URIs so that they 404 and
> just plain don't work, but it is also bad to change the *meaning* of that
> URI.

As long as there is a clear link to the specification from the
explanation, then I disagree that it's really changed the meaning
of the link target.

If I were to add a link today like:

You can read the http://microformats.org/wiki/hCard";
>hCard specification for more information.

and tomorrow that page were replaced by an introductory page, I doubt I'd
want to change the link. People visiting my page could still click on the
link and would find the specification, albeit indirectly.

The real danger is with #fragment identifiers. :-(

-- 
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.12-12mdksmp, up 1 day, 7:59.]

 TrivialEncoder/0.2
 http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2007/08/19/trivial-encoder/

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