Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats UI in Firefox 3

[Martin McEvoy]

Hello all 

The First thing every one notices when you start Firefox for the first
time Is how Simple it is to use. Operator works nicely with Firefox
because it too is simple and easy to use, especially when you use it as
an icon in the location bar, you dont even know its there until you
visit a page embedded with Microformats. Operators only problem is (as
was mentioned in an earlier post) when you visit pages with lots of
hcard's and or vevent's you dont really know who is who or what is
what... its like trawling through names in a telephone book

So keep it simple guys maybe all you need to do is create some click
actions on email links, and leave all the decisions up to the USER.

example here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/weborganics/1279305707/

Thanks

Martin

On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 09:00 -0700, Alex Faaborg wrote:
> My apologies if I'm reopening a long closed debate, I'll be sure to  
> review the wiki page.
> 
> > Side A: Publishers should be able to specify UI elements for their
> > Microformatted content in their HTML.
> >
> > Side B: The browser should be solely responsible for injecting UI into
> > the page
> 
> I should note that people inside Mozilla have argued these two sides  
> as well.  I'm personally in favor of A, or B if it is represented as  
> a modal overlay.
> 
> > It is important that the Firefox developers not only think of
> > Microformats, but eRDF, RDFa, and other semantic markup technologies
> > that are coming down the pipeline.
> 
> Yeah, it would be great if whatever solution we came up with scaled  
> across different semantic markup technologies.  The latest version of  
> Operator now supports eRDF and RDFa.
> 
> -Alex
> 
> 
> On Aug 28, 2007, at 8:09 AM, Manu Sporny wrote:
> 
> > Alex Faaborg wrote:
> >> Yes, while previous Firefox designs have focused on the browser
> >> injecting UI into the page, this discussion is about how the content
> >> creator should provide links and buttons for acting on microformatted
> >> content.
> >
> > I'm probably being a bit dense, but it looks like we're entering  
> > into a
> > philosophical debate. Without taking sides, it looks like the
> > philosophical rift is this:
> >
> > Side A: Publishers should be able to specify UI elements for their
> > Microformatted content in their HTML.
> >
> > Side B: The browser should be solely responsible for injecting UI into
> > the page?
> >
> > This debate has been tracked on the wiki:
> >
> > http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info- 
> > issues#Historical:_Graphic_buttons_in_rel-patterns
> >
> > The current resolution is to leave implementation for user actions  
> > up to
> > the browser and uF plug-ins. Without going into the nasty details,  
> > which
> > are fully documented on the wiki, there is opposition to directly
> > specifying UI through uF markup. Microformats are about data, not UI.
> >
> > That being said, if there is a desire to add generic UI actions to any
> > sort of semantic data (keep in mind eRDF and RDFa), the one idea that
> > seems to be most compatible with "Microformats are about data" but  
> > able
> > to give the publishers of any semantic data some control over the  
> > UI is
> > the "uf:// protocol idea".
> >
> > Perhaps a generic set of "actions" that are defined by all semantic  
> > data
> > communities (uF, eRDF, RDFa, etc.). The assumption is that some  
> > sort of
> > ID mechanism is utilized. So for data like this:
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Something like the following:
> >
> > Add to address  
> > book
> > E-mail Alex
> >
> > Here are some other examples:
> >
> > action://map/find/eiffel-tower
> > action://
> >
> > The above mechanism would allow people to specify default behaviors  
> > for
> > actions. Some could specify that "action://map/" is handled by Yahoo
> > Maps, while others might choose Google Maps or Microsoft Streets  
> > and Trips.
> >
> > It is important that the Firefox developers not only think of
> > Microformats, but eRDF, RDFa, and other semantic markup technologies
> > that are coming down the pipeline.
> >
> > -- manu
> > ___
> > microformats-discuss mailing list
> > microformats-discuss@microformats.org
> > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
> 
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Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats UI in Firefox 3

[Alex Faaborg]

My apologies if I'm reopening a long closed debate, I'll be sure to  
review the wiki page.



Side A: Publishers should be able to specify UI elements for their
Microformatted content in their HTML.

Side B: The browser should be solely responsible for injecting UI into
the page


I should note that people inside Mozilla have argued these two sides  
as well.  I'm personally in favor of A, or B if it is represented as  
a modal overlay.



It is important that the Firefox developers not only think of
Microformats, but eRDF, RDFa, and other semantic markup technologies
that are coming down the pipeline.


Yeah, it would be great if whatever solution we came up with scaled  
across different semantic markup technologies.  The latest version of  
Operator now supports eRDF and RDFa.


-Alex


On Aug 28, 2007, at 8:09 AM, Manu Sporny wrote:


Alex Faaborg wrote:

Yes, while previous Firefox designs have focused on the browser
injecting UI into the page, this discussion is about how the content
creator should provide links and buttons for acting on microformatted
content.


I'm probably being a bit dense, but it looks like we're entering  
into a

philosophical debate. Without taking sides, it looks like the
philosophical rift is this:

Side A: Publishers should be able to specify UI elements for their
Microformatted content in their HTML.

Side B: The browser should be solely responsible for injecting UI into
the page?

This debate has been tracked on the wiki:

http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info- 
issues#Historical:_Graphic_buttons_in_rel-patterns


The current resolution is to leave implementation for user actions  
up to
the browser and uF plug-ins. Without going into the nasty details,  
which

are fully documented on the wiki, there is opposition to directly
specifying UI through uF markup. Microformats are about data, not UI.

That being said, if there is a desire to add generic UI actions to any
sort of semantic data (keep in mind eRDF and RDFa), the one idea that
seems to be most compatible with "Microformats are about data" but  
able
to give the publishers of any semantic data some control over the  
UI is

the "uf:// protocol idea".

Perhaps a generic set of "actions" that are defined by all semantic  
data
communities (uF, eRDF, RDFa, etc.). The assumption is that some  
sort of

ID mechanism is utilized. So for data like this:

...

Something like the following:

Add to address  
book

E-mail Alex

Here are some other examples:

action://map/find/eiffel-tower
action://

The above mechanism would allow people to specify default behaviors  
for

actions. Some could specify that "action://map/" is handled by Yahoo
Maps, while others might choose Google Maps or Microsoft Streets  
and Trips.


It is important that the Firefox developers not only think of
Microformats, but eRDF, RDFa, and other semantic markup technologies
that are coming down the pipeline.

-- manu
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Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats UI in Firefox 3

[Manu Sporny]

Manu Sporny wrote:
> Here are some other examples:
> 
> action://map/find/eiffel-tower
> action://

Sorry, here are the other examples:

action://location/find/eiffel-tower
action://license/fulltext/Harry-Potter-and-the-Order-of-the-Phoenix
action://feed/subscribe/cool-hatom-feed
action://audio/play/haudio-punk-rock-song
action://resume/findjob/my-hresume

-- manu

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Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats UI in Firefox 3

[Pelle W]

This idea is really good, the best possible I think.

If there is a need for interaction on a website then the options are 
limited to the browser UI and the script languages available, right?
And this way you're suggesting the user will have the possibility of 
adding their own interaction with javascript and the user will have a 
fallback on the browser UI.


This way there are the fewest possible restrictions for the designers 
letting them choose themselves how they would like to solve this problem.


The functionality you previosuly suggested can for example easily be 
added by a third party javascript to make it easier for non javascript 
gurus to add actions to their sites, but that should really be the job 
of such javascripts like it's javascripts like Lightbox job to show 
galleries in a fashionable way. The question about any class names would 
also be up to such javascripts.


/ Pelle W


Alex Faaborg wrote:
Perhaps instead of new classes and protocols, we could just do this 
completely in javascript.  Here is a general example, probably all the 
function names would end up being different:



 Alex Faaborg
 Mozilla
 
  1981 Landings Dr. Building S
  Mountain View
,
  CA
,
  94043
  
 if (navigator.microformatAware("hCard")){