Re: low-MHz server
Have you considered a PowerPC-based machine? They run at lower frequencies, using less power. Might be something to consider. Something like an old beige PowerMac 6200 or something from that era. In Vancouver, we have a Mac consignment shop that always has old machines like this. Maybe you have something like that out your way. We actually used such a machine as recent as 2000 to run a pretty functional web and terminal server. If your wife is comfortable using Pine or Elm for email, you could easily use a machine like this. (I believe OpenBSD's PowerPC/RISC support is quite good.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Macintosh_6200 On Jan 30, 2008 8:08 PM, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 05:14:32AM +0200, Jussi Peltola wrote: > > I haven't had any difficulty finding PII / PPro based HP Netservers that > > are too heavy to carry up the stairs. Any i386 server from that time > > should be pretty reliable if it still works... > > > > Running OpenBSD is a whole another thing. I've found most of the early > > PII servers very quirky, the netservers being a bit less so than some of > > the worst. I'd recommend just carrying a bunch of them home and throwing > > out the useless ones. > > P-II runs too fast. I'm looking at P or P-Pro (or 486). I haven't > found any. Know of a source of such servers? > > Thanks, > > Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
On Jan 30, 2008, at 7:45 PM, scott wrote: If MHz are the issue ... you can get SUN NETRA T1 machine off ebay from 50-300$ depending on its age and ingredients. These used Netra's range from 400M-1.2G Hz. These are 1U units. They offer far greater performance bang then x86's at at like MHz. Just to keep people informed: Netra T1 is LOUD. I mean, shockingly so. I can hear mine through the house, easily. It's also, easily, one of the loudest systems in the colo right now. They run openBSD well, but there were some chicken and egg installation difficulty stories around (boot/install from CD not working) but all seems prior to 4.x. Not sure ... perhaps others can advise. I've only ever seen them running. Lacking both cd and floppy in mine, I found that netbooting bsd.rd worked. It's documented in diskless(8), and vaguely covered by INSTALL.sparc64. Note that you don't need to follow every single step, since you're mainly just looking to bootstrap the loader and the kernel from the tftp server. Perhaps the Netra's will serve your cause. Never know. I like them.
Re: low-MHz server
On 1/31/08 2:25 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: We did the double-blind thing many times. She nails it every time: 100% If true she can get =very= rich with that. Please stop this thread that has nothing to do with OpenBSD. +++chefren
Re: low-MHz server
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:08:32PM -0500, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > P-II runs too fast. I'm looking at P or P-Pro (or 486). I haven't > found any. Know of a source of such servers? I do have dual P and PPro netservers gathering dust in the garage. Unfortunately their combined weight is probably more than what I weigh so I can't get rid of them easily... The best source of ancient hardware I have found is friends who work at company IT departments. Actual IT companies tend to have pretty new hardware (and loads of employees who carry the old hardware away), the departments seem to have more space for ancient servers (which are so heavy nobody dares to try lifting them...) You could try posting an ad in a newspaper or something - usually it's someone else in the company complaining about the accumulated junk that causes them to start looking for someone who will carry them away, so there are many potential people who might be able to help. Of course, you shouldn't forget the people who have made the same mistake as I: never bring servers, especially ones you hardly can carry, home. They will probably be happy to let you take them away. -- Jussi Peltola
Re: low-MHz server
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 10:47:45PM -0500, Nick Gustas wrote: > Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > >So, back to the issue at hand. Anybody have fond memories of great 486 > >or Pentium-based servers (or other arch equivs)? > > Back in 1999, I picked up several used HP Vectra Pentium 100 desktops > for use as backup backup dial in administration machines at our remote > sites, none have had any failures, not even hard drive failures. We've > never updated the OS since they've never crashed, and the only external > link is a modem. They run mgetty+ssh on the internal lan interface. Yeah, something like that would be great. Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 05:14:32AM +0200, Jussi Peltola wrote: > I haven't had any difficulty finding PII / PPro based HP Netservers that > are too heavy to carry up the stairs. Any i386 server from that time > should be pretty reliable if it still works... > > Running OpenBSD is a whole another thing. I've found most of the early > PII servers very quirky, the netservers being a bit less so than some of > the worst. I'd recommend just carrying a bunch of them home and throwing > out the useless ones. P-II runs too fast. I'm looking at P or P-Pro (or 486). I haven't found any. Know of a source of such servers? Thanks, Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 06:58:02PM -0800, Unix Fan wrote: > Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > > > My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > > > She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the higher > > > the frequency, the worse her symptoms. > > > > Looks like you need to trade her in... she's broken. > > ;) > For better or for worse, in sickness and in health, as long as we both shall live. She's easy. I haven't worked since I almost died of pneumonia in 2000. I'm a kept man. Besides, I love her more than I love computers and OpenBSD. Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 10:17:47PM -0500, Paul D. Ouderkirk wrote: > Probably your best bet to cover these requirements would be some old > school Compaq Proliant > with 2 or 4-way Pentium Pro CPUs. You can find them clocked around 200MHz. > > You can get them on eBay cheaply, but you'll probably get screwed on shipping. > They're above 200 MHz, and yeah, shipping is a pain. Crossing the boarder is a huge pain because of the custom's brokerage fees. Anybody in Ontario or Quebec with anything? Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
Douglas A. Tutty wrote: So, back to the issue at hand. Anybody have fond memories of great 486 or Pentium-based servers (or other arch equivs)? Doug. Back in 1999, I picked up several used HP Vectra Pentium 100 desktops for use as backup backup dial in administration machines at our remote sites, none have had any failures, not even hard drive failures. We've never updated the OS since they've never crashed, and the only external link is a modem. They run mgetty+ssh on the internal lan interface. The one at the site with the most reliable power has been running for quite a while... uptime 10:38PM up 1294 days, 4:07, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Most of the others are in the 200-300 day range, all from extended power outages at the sites. FreeBSD 3.3-19990914-RC #0: Tue Sep 14 12:56:08 GMT 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/compile/STDOD Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz Timecounter "TSC" frequency 99546682 Hz CPU: Pentium/P54C (99.55-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping = 5 Features=0x1bf real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 29786112 (29088K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc02c9000. Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x01 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.1.0 vga0: rev 0xfc on pci0.5.0 wdc0: rev 0x02 int a irq 14 on pci0.7.0 Probing for PnP devices: CSN 1 Vendor ID: TCM5095 [0x95506d50] Serial 0xafd0e43c Comp ID: @@@ [0x] Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 on isa sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard atkbd0 irq 1 on isa psm0 not found sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa wdc0: CMD640B workaround enabled wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , multi-block-16 wd0: 814MB (1667232 sectors), 1654 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 not found at 0x170 ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 flags 0x40 on isa ppc0: Generic chipset (NIBBLE-only) in COMPATIBLE mode lpt0: on ppbus 0 lpt0: Interrupt-driven port ppi0: on ppbus 0 plip0: on ppbus 0 1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x300 ep0 at 0x300-0x30f irq 10 on isa ep0: utp[*UTP*] address 00:20:af:d0:e4:3c vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa msize 131072 on isa npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface Intel Pentium detected, installing workaround for F00F bug changing root device to wd0s1a
Re: low-MHz server
If MHz are the issue ... you can get SUN NETRA T1 machine off ebay from 50-300$ depending on its age and ingredients. These used Netra's range from 400M-1.2G Hz. These are 1U units. They offer far greater performance bang then x86's at at like MHz. For example, a Netra T1 500MHz, 2GB PC-133 RAM and 36GB SCSI, is CAD$38. Another similar but not-as-old one is CAD$137. They run openBSD well, but there were some chicken and egg installation difficulty stories around (boot/install from CD not working) but all seems prior to 4.x. Not sure ... perhaps others can advise. I've only ever seen them running. Perhaps the Netra's will serve your cause. /S -Original Message- From: Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: misc@OpenBSD.org Subject: low-MHz server Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:35:59 -0500 Mailer: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11)
Re: low-MHz server
Douglas A. Tutty wrote: ... > Here's the software that I need to run on the box (beyond what is in 4.2 > base): > > vim easy > mc easy > mutt easy > tex considering it dates back to the low two-digit CPU speed days, I suspect "easy", though it might be true that you would appreciate more. > python depends on your app. My VERY limited experience with python is it is a pig. BUT patience is a virtue, you may have sufficient virtue. > some kind of printfilter to serve my Epson LQ-2080 impact printer. probably not a problem. > > Here's the hardware-type I'll envisioning: > > Multiple CPU so that multiple apps can run better on limited individual > CPUs, running under 200 MHz THIS may be a problem. On i386, <200MHz means PPro or Pentium, and I've had near zero luck on SMP PentiumPro machines (not totally zero luck...I have a 4x200MHz 2G RAM which Just Worked...and pumped out something like 700W of heat...) > Probably PCI bus. (please!) > Paralell port for the printer (or I would just use a USB adapter) > USB for future needs > serial port for console > multi-port serial for terminal(s) and my external 3Com Courier modem. > 10 or 10/100 Ethernet > Multiple hard drives: IIRC, the older boxes had 9 GB SCSI drives. I > don't know if one can plunk new eg. 250 GB SCSI drives in them. ... 9G. those were BIG. :) But yes, respecting the interface, you can put REALLY big drives in really old machines. But go IDE. An old machine with a SCSI drive does nothing for you. You don't want to buy new 140G or 300G SCSI disks. > SCSI HBA for a tape drive > > > Any suggestions for good old boxes like this that will run modern > OpenBSD and be reasonably reliable? you take what you can get... but yes, get a spare. :) A few thoughts... 1) 1M RAM/1G Disk if you don't want swap on fsck. And, trust me, you don't want swap on fsck if you are in a hurry to get back up and running. This will be a problem. <200MHz machines usually use 72 pin SIMMs, finding bigger than 32M is difficult, and more than four slots is rare. However, if you aren't running X and X apps, you will probably find 64M to 128M A lot. Unless you put a 500G drive on the thing with a 400G /home and trip over the power cord... On the other hand, just because you have a 500G drive doesn't mean you have to partition it to all be available. Or even 10% of it to be available. 2) you may find a PII you can underclock. 3) old machines with heavy metal cases might shield better than new machines with plastic cases. 4) MAKE SURE all shielding is in place. I suspect a lot of people are like me and don't re-install all the silly metal bits that various regulatory agencies desire. Make sure all screws are tightened down properly. 5) Remove CDROMs, floppies, and put in metal plates in their place. Attach them firmly. 6) Is she going to be better with two 200MHz chips than one, say, 300MHz chip? Interesting experiment. (hint: don't refer to her as "lab rat" :) It sounds like she has reactions to both frequency and intensity... Also, I'm not entirely sure about this, but a pair of 200MHz processors may have an RF signal closer to that of a 400MHz processor than you wish. 7) Not sure if it is true anymore, but home machines used to be more strict about RF emissions than "business" machines or servers. 8) You (not necessarily your wife) will be better off with an old, heavy-duty workstation than an old server. You don't want an old server. Trust me (lots of wacko parts). 9) Most non-i386 machines were sold for data centers, probably have higher RF emissions than i386, home-oriented machines. 10) The CPU isn't your only issue: keyboards, disks, printers, almost everything now has its own little processor on it, and is thus a potential source of irritation. 11) Old compaqs sometimes had P-I processors but SDRAM. Some other P-I machines had chipsets with serious problems with more than 64M RAM (which was sad, as many 486 systems could handle many times that much long before...) 12) Most CPU heat sinks are not grounded. Might be interesting to ground it to the case. 13) Old system with PCI slot and add-in modern PCI IDE disk adapter can provide very decent disk performance. How much RF does the adapter emit? 14) Don't obsess on processors and ignore the rest of the machine which is (probably) radiating large amounts of irritation, too. I'd suspect even all NICs aren't equal in this regard. I've got some old P90 machines which would be fascinating tests. All metal case, only large hole, assuming no CDROM drive, is the floppy bay. I did a lot of my early OpenBSD faq work on those machines. If your goals are realistic, a 100MHz machine can do a lot of work for you, but don't trip over the power cord if you put a 500G disk on it. Even that's not a fatal problem -- I got a backup machine at work, does rsync backups to a 500G disk, only 128M of RAM. But, if someone trips over the power cord, no big deal if it takes an h
Re: low-MHz server
On Jan 30, 2008 1:35 PM, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's the hardware-type I'll envisioning: > > Multiple CPU so that multiple apps can run better on limited individual > CPUs, running under 200 MHz > Probably PCI bus. > Paralell port for the printer (or I would just use a USB adapter) > USB for future needs > serial port for console > multi-port serial for terminal(s) and my external 3Com Courier modem. > 10 or 10/100 Ethernet > Multiple hard drives: IIRC, the older boxes had 9 GB SCSI drives. I > don't know if one can plunk new eg. 250 GB SCSI drives in them. > SCSI HBA for a tape drive > Probably your best bet to cover these requirements would be some old school Compaq Proliant with 2 or 4-way Pentium Pro CPUs. You can find them clocked around 200MHz. You can get them on eBay cheaply, but you'll probably get screwed on shipping. Paul. -- -- Paul D. Ouderkirk Senior UNIX System Administrator Exothermic Technologies [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- We'll ride the spiral to the end; and may just go where no one's been. -- Tool, Lateralus
Re: low-MHz server
Hi, I haven't had any difficulty finding PII / PPro based HP Netservers that are too heavy to carry up the stairs. Any i386 server from that time should be pretty reliable if it still works... Running OpenBSD is a whole another thing. I've found most of the early PII servers very quirky, the netservers being a bit less so than some of the worst. I'd recommend just carrying a bunch of them home and throwing out the useless ones. -- Jussi Peltola
Re: low-MHz server
Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the higher > the frequency, the worse her symptoms. Looks like you need to trade her in... she's broken. ;) -Nix Fan.
Solution
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Re: low-MHz server
Two approaches (variation of some already mentioned). 1. GROUND and SHIELD the sources. Home Depot, et cetera, have lead-lined drywall by the sheet for a small premium over regular (quality) drywall. Cut to size. You You don't actually need to encase, but rather place it as barrier between her and the source. Ground strap the lead-line drywall. There is dielectric plexi-glass sheets for barrier between her and the screen. 2. There are low-emission thin clients available from which you can NX to your back end application server. /S -Original Message- From: Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: misc@OpenBSD.org Subject: low-MHz server Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:35:59 -0500 Mailer: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11)
Re: low-MHz server
On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 02:11:54AM +0100, ropers wrote: > On 30/01/2008, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > She's also sensitive to lower-freq and even DC electric fields (e.g. a > > battery with no external current flow) but in a different manner. > > I don't understand what you mean by "DC electric fields" in this > context. A battery without any current flow is just a container with > chemicals inside. No electricity, no magnetic field, nothing. Sure it does. It has a static electric field since there's a voltage potential between the two poles. Electricity doesn't just appear once you put a meter onto a battery; current yes, potential no. Potential is, well, potential. Also, no batteries are electrically perfect so they all contain some capacitance that can then interact if placed in an occilating EMF (IOW, they can act like an antenna). It all seems strange. Yes, I know the physics of it, but before this happened, it was something that you paid a lot of money to build a detector for, for research. However, I have been assured by the best of medical science (not just a local quack) that this is real. So, back to the issue at hand. Anybody have fond memories of great 486 or Pentium-based servers (or other arch equivs)? Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 01:11:58PM -0600, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote:
> > Has your wife had her sensitivity examined by medical professionals? Is
> > it a physical problem or a psychosomatic condition?
On 30/01/2008, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes. Physical.
Let's remember here that it doesn't matter whether it's allegedly
"physical" or allegedly "psychosomatic", it only matters that she's in
pain. At the end of the day, both "physical" and "psychosomatic" pain
sensations are **exactly** the same:
The same synapses fire, the same neurotransmitters get released, the
same chemicals are involved. For pain, it really and truly does not
matter what started it, because in terms of the central nervous
system, the pain is the same and just as real, regardless whether it
was triggered directly ("physical") or indirectly ("psychosomatic").
In the end of the day, either pain sensation is both physical and
psychosomatic, and the brain can't distinguish and doesn't care how it
started. More enlightened MDs will tell you as much.
"How it started" is only interesting in trying to find and address
root causes, but it doesn't say anything about how real the pain is.
--ropers
Re: Test Limerick, please ignore
On Jan 29, 2008 9:20 PM, ropers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 30/01/2008, Ted Unangst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > awesome. just discovered that gmail's spam filter is a fast learner. > > by marking the first test emails spam, i haven't seen the other posts. > > I've always just clicked "Delete" instead. I don't acutally know > Gmail's spam filter algorithm, but I've always avoided marking > anything coming through via misc@ as spam, because I've a strong hunch > that Gmail uses individual users' spam reporting data in future mail > filtering for everybody. I'm afraid that if I were to mark anything > sent to misc@ as spam, then Gmail might eventually stop delivering > misc@ emails to me and everybody else. Maybe I'm overly careful, but > it doesn't hurt much to click "Delete" instead of "Report spam". Same here. I've always figured better safe than sorry. Todd
Re: low-MHz server
Hi Ropers, We did the double-blind thing many times. She nails it every time: 100% Thanks anyway, Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
On 30/01/2008, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > She's also sensitive to lower-freq and even DC electric fields (e.g. a > battery with no external current flow) but in a different manner. I don't understand what you mean by "DC electric fields" in this context. A battery without any current flow is just a container with chemicals inside. No electricity, no magnetic field, nothing.
Re: low-MHz server
On 30/01/2008, Daniel A. Ramaley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wednesday 30 January 2008 12:35, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > >My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > >She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the > > higher the frequency, the worse her symptoms. > > Rather than trying to find obsolete equipment that runs at a low > frequency, would it be possible to build a Faraday cage around your > computer? > > Has your wife had her sensitivity examined by medical professionals? Is > it a physical problem or a psychosomatic condition? How does she react > to fluorescent lights? Incandescents? How about driving near a radio > transmission tower? Or for that matter, even being in a modern car? If > there is an electronic device turned on in the next room but she is not > aware of it, does she still experience pain? I don't need answers to > these questions, but if there is a medical solution to your wife's > sensitivity that might be easier than trying to banish all electronics. Without trying to be disrespectful to your wife's suffering, upon reading your email I immediately thought of a double blind trial ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_blind#Double-blind_trials ) I would run if it were me: - Take your palm pilot and weigh it. - Find some small object(s) of equal weight. - Get two identical shoe boxes, some cushioning material, and wrapping paper. - With your wife in another room, turn on the palm pilot and put it in one box (and cushion it) and seal the box. Put the other object(s) in the other box (with cushioning) and seal it. - To make sure you too can't tell the boxes apart, leave the room and have your wife enter it after you have left. Have your wife wrap the sealed boxes in wrapping paper. Now neither she nor you know where that Palm pilot is. - Your wife should then pick one of the boxes and put in on her bedside table or similar. - After at most 24hrs (if she lasts that long) she should try the other box. She should then tell you which she thinks has the Palm Pilot in it. Since there's a 50/50 chance, you could either repeat the experiment a bunch of times and/or use a whole bunch of boxes. Okay, totally off-topic (sorry), but that's what popped into my head. --ropers
Re: low-MHz server
On Jan 30, 2008 7:17 PM, ropers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 30/01/2008, bofh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So, > > Look for tempest rated computers? > > These may be difficult to procure, because according to > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEMPEST even the emission limits remain > classified, nevermind actual kit that one could buy. Some of the information is widely available through the rainbow series of books. They were even sending out CDs of those things. You don't have to actually build tempest _rated_ computers, but "close enough" -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related
Re: low-MHz server
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 06:09:36PM -0500, Steve Shockley wrote: > Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > >A medical solution would be very nice but not forthcoming. Note that > >apparently in either Norway or Sweeden (I forget which), a whole > >non-electronic, non-EMF village has been set up for such sensitive > >people. Hasn't happened in Canada or the US yet. > > If moving is an option, perhaps this region would be an improvement: > > http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.02/quiet.html > > That doesn't help your computer issue, though. Yeah, we've considered moving it, but the location is an issue. We're in Canada. If you don't mind a long flight to the nearest grocery store, there is lots of quite area around. Once you get near a grocery store, you have all the noise of the wireless (and unshielded wired) world. Last summer we were camping North-East of Kirkland Lake at Esker Lakes Provincial Park. If you don't know Ontario, that's 9-10 hrs north of Toronto. North of the most northerly rail line and highway. A single power line comes into the park along the only road. No phone. The park gets its phone with two cell phones connected to two high towers with directional antennas back to the nearest cell tower in Kirkland Lake, 25 Km away. Heaven for us. But, if we lived there, I'd still need a quieter computer than my Athlon64. Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
On 30/01/2008, bofh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So, > Look for tempest rated computers? These may be difficult to procure, because according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEMPEST even the emission limits remain classified, nevermind actual kit that one could buy. --ropers
Re: low-MHz server
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 04:48:57PM -0500, bofh wrote: > And, in all seriousness, has she tried a tin-foil hat? > I tried a tin-foil vapour-barrier in the bedroom in our previous house; even tried grounding it.
Re: low-MHz server
Douglas A. Tutty wrote: A medical solution would be very nice but not forthcoming. Note that apparently in either Norway or Sweeden (I forget which), a whole non-electronic, non-EMF village has been set up for such sensitive people. Hasn't happened in Canada or the US yet. If moving is an option, perhaps this region would be an improvement: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.02/quiet.html That doesn't help your computer issue, though.
Re: low-MHz server
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 09:42:15PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > You said you live rurally - in that case, perhaps you should build/buy > a small quality (read as: won't get wet) shed, have your systems there > and run some outdoor-rated CAT5e from it to your house. That should > allow you to use KVM extenders, serial, etc. Remember the > inverse-square law for RF. RF usually is attentuated greatly by opaque > things, though just plants etc. will also attentuate. If you can place > it behind a hill that would be good. > Following the electrical code, the shed would count as an outbuilding, should have its own ground, etc. It gets expensive quickly; comparable to other in-house solutions. Thanks, Doug.
Re: brute force voip QoS
On 2008/01/30 15:53, Rod Dorman wrote: > > Plus QoS isn't going to interrupt a packet currently being transmitted, > if a large download packet is already going out your VoIP packet is > gonna have to wait until its done. scrub max-mss can help with this.
Re: carped trunk or trunked carp or what?
On 08-01-30 22:43, Kent Watsen wrote: I've set up boxes this way, but without the trunk. And it was completely transparent to your switch? - you had both carped boxes plugged into the same switch? Yep, two boxes with one cable each to the switch. Both with a bunch of vlans and carp interfaces on top of that. This is from one of the machines: vlan10: flags=8943 mtu 1500 lladdr 00:13:46:6a:2d:76 description: VLAN foo vlan: 10 priority: 0 parent interface: sk0 groups: vlan inet6 fe80::213:46ff:fe6a:2d76%vlan10 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x6 inet 10.1.0.7 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 10.255.255.255 vlan20: flags=8943 mtu 1500 lladdr 00:13:46:6a:2d:76 description: VLAN bar vlan: 20 priority: 0 parent interface: sk0 groups: vlan inet6 fe80::213:46ff:fe6a:2d76%vlan20 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x7 inet 172.16.0.7 netmask 0x broadcast 172.16.255.255 carp10: flags=8843 mtu 1500 lladdr 00:00:5e:00:01:6e carp: BACKUP carpdev vlan10 vhid 110 advbase 1 advskew 100 groups: carp inet6 fe80::200:5eff:fe00:16e%carp10 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb inet 10.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 10.255.255.255 carp20: flags=8843 mtu 1500 lladdr 00:00:5e:00:01:78 carp: BACKUP carpdev vlan20 vhid 120 advbase 1 advskew 100 groups: carp inet6 fe80::200:5eff:fe00:178%carp20 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xc inet 172.16.0.1 netmask 0x broadcast 172.16.255.255 /Johan
Re: low-MHz server
On Jan 30, 2008 3:50 PM, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > AIUI, tempest shields from the transients from keyboards. I don't know > that it shields from all EMF above (arbitrarily) 100 MHz. Besides, I'll > bet that to get the tempest certification would cost a whole lot more > than even a skid of old servers. Tempest is not just shielding keyboard and mouse - it's the whole system. Really, one of the bigger issues today is that newer PCs have crappy shielding, and one of the tricks to get UL certification (for peripherals) is to find the oldest all metal box PC you can find, put the card in, take out every other component inside, that you can, and then hand it to UL for testing. In your case, if you have a friend with an all aluminium box, or if funds are good, get one, and see if that helps. Heck, make sure you have good ground on it, solder a copper wire from it to your nearest ground. And, in all seriousness, has she tried a tin-foil hat? -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
Original-Nachricht > Datum: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:50:30 +0100 > Von: Raimo Niskanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > An: misc@openbsd.org > Betreff: Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 03:29:46PM +0100, Stefan Kell wrote: > > Hello, > > > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, frantisek holop wrote: > > > > >hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 11:21:40AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > > >>frantisek holop wrote: > > >>>hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:45:27AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > > (short version: just do a normal install to the flash disk) > > >>> > > >>>how do i boot bsd.rd to make an install to the flash disk? > > >>>chicken egg. i dont have an usb cdrom, nor floppy disk. > > >>>only usb media. i need to create a bootable usb media... > > >>> > > >>>-f > > >> > > >>see the referenced thread... > > >> > > >>Prep the install device on another machine. Other machine just needs > > > > > >should have been clearer probably... > > >i am on the road. there is no other machine... > > >all i have is the eee and the internet and the usb media. > > > > > > > > >my understanding of the boot process process for i386 tells me, > > >all i need is ia bootsector from someone who already has an openbsd > > >bootable usb media and the instructions which bytes to change > > >based on what :) (where is boot(8) on my usb media) > > > > > > > see man installboot and man biosboot: you can't do this easily because > > installboot will patch biosboot for the locationinfo of boot. And you > don't > > have this information beforehand. > > > > >OR > > > > > >something like the zaurus process... install a linux package > > >and can run bsd.rd directly from linux. i think this one is > > >becoming more and more needed for i386 too, in this world of > > >floppyless, cdromless devices... a little utility that > > >can run bsd.rd from linux/dos... > > > > > >>but it would be cheaper to just prep it on another machine. :) > > > > > >i definitely agree. but if someone is so intimate with the > > >boot sector code that can give me this info, saves a lot of > > >hassle for me. thats why i wrote to the list, maybe someone > > >really is... > > > > > > > > >>(some people will say dd the floppy image onto the flash device, but > > >>the functionality of that depends upon your BIOS's USB boot code. > > > > > >i havent tried this one yet, but just for the kicks i tried > > >cd42.iso an that of course didnt work. > > > > dd floppy image does boot on the eee, but biosboot stops with "ERR M". > > Installing OpenBSD to an USB stick definitly works. One other solution > > might be > > "flashboot", see "http://www.mindrot.org/projects/flashboot/";. There are > > binary > > images available at "http://tilde.se/flashboot/";. "zcat GENERIC-RD.image > | > > dd > > of=/dev/sd0" under Linux on the eee should give you a bootable USB-Stick > > (/dev/sd0 as an example). But I didn't try this myself. > > > > Anyway, OpenBSD will boot but ethernet does not work: The wired adapter > is > > not > > suppoerted, and the wireless driver reports an error and does not work > :-( > > > > Then one could create such a bootable image and throw in the file sets > too, > that is: most of the /4.2/i386 download directory except install42.iso, > but the size would be about 250 MByte. > > If the ethernet adapters does not work, what is the use? To get this nice little thingy working, of course.
Re: brute force voip QoS
On Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 15:06:28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> My bandwidth is very very limited. Not more than 140 Kbps on both >> sides at any time. I use G729 as a codec in order to reduce >> consumption. Use the pf.conf below, when VoIP is the only traffic, >> the quality of the calls is excelent with no voice cutting at all. >> Now if I start a download I immediatelly see the quality degrade. >> >> That is why I thought of using some radical policy. > > That's strange; it may be your connection struggles at much lower > bandwidths than nominal - for instance, perhaps it suffers high packet > loss at 80% utilization; TCP could recover, but VoIP might be affected. Packet loss probably isn't even a factor. Your QoS configuration is only going to affect traffic *from* you, unless you can ask your ISP to prioritize VoIP traffic *to* you you're only tweaking one direction. Plus QoS isn't going to interrupt a packet currently being transmitted, if a large download packet is already going out your VoIP packet is gonna have to wait until its done. The slower your connection the worse the latency can be. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The avalanche has already started, it is too Rod Dorman late for the pebbles to vote." - Ambassador Kosh
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
Hello Denis, Original-Nachricht > Datum: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:26:17 + (GMT) > Von: Dennis Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > An: misc@openbsd.org > Betreff: Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom > On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, Raimo Niskanen wrote: > > > From: Raimo Niskanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: misc@openbsd.org > > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:50:30 +0100 > > Subject: Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom > > ... > > > > Anyway, OpenBSD will boot but ethernet does not work: The wired > > > adapter is not suppoerted, and the wireless driver reports an > > > error and does not work :-( > > > > Then one could create such a bootable image and throw in the file > > sets too, that is: most of the /4.2/i386 download directory except > > install42.iso, but the size would be about 250 MByte. > > > > If the ethernet adapters does not work, what is the use? > > "wireless driver reports an error and does not work" is short on > detail. It might just be that non-free firmware needs installing > (eg the firmware for the iwi driver) to get it to work. > -- > Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +44 1225 386101 Of course this is way too short, but I wanted to check the archives beforehand wether I did make a stupid error somewhere. Wireless is an ath-device which does not need non-free firmware AFAIK. Regards Stefan Kell
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
Thanks for that info, I will check how -current works on the eee, if I got some time for this. Regards Stefan Kell Original-Nachricht > Datum: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:46:22 + > Von: Stuart Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > An: misc@openbsd.org > Betreff: Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom > On 2008/01/30 15:26, Dennis Davis wrote: > > > > "wireless driver reports an error and does not work" is short on > > detail. It might just be that non-free firmware needs installing > > (eg the firmware for the iwi driver) to get it to work. > > people with Eee PC need to test -current snapshots, the wd/wdc > changes which are in them (not yet committed) will affect you > (hopefully to your advantage, there should be much lower cpu > use during disk activity). > > http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=120159790520579&w=2
Re: carped trunk or trunked carp or what?
Johan Fredin wrote: On 08-01-30 17:50, Kent Watsen wrote: hme0 \ hme1 \ /- vlan0 --- carp0 --- trunk0 - vlan1 --- carp1 hme2 / \- valn2 --- carp2 hme3 / I say this is the way to go. You can consider trunk0 a physical interface (consisting of four underlaying interfaces). Since you probably want to have different IP networks on the different vlans you add carp on top of the vlans. At first this seems foreign, but it does make sense that carp would be layered on top of that which has ip addresses, the vlans, as neither the physical nor the trunk interfaces have ip addresses - they are just "up" I've set up boxes this way, but without the trunk. And it was completely transparent to your switch? - you had both carped boxes plugged into the same switch? Thanks, Kent
Re: brute force voip QoS
To: Stuart Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: brute force voip QoS > > pass out queue (std_out,lowdelay) > > here, you place ACKs from downloads at a higher priority than > your voip calls. this is unlikely to be what you want with priq > over a 140Kb/s link.. According to pf.conf, that also prioritizes packets with ToS set to lowdelay; looking at what ToS the packets have would be a good idea.
Re: low-MHz server
You said you live rurally - in that case, perhaps you should build/buy a small quality (read as: won't get wet) shed, have your systems there and run some outdoor-rated CAT5e from it to your house. That should allow you to use KVM extenders, serial, etc. Remember the inverse-square law for RF. RF usually is attentuated greatly by opaque things, though just plants etc. will also attentuate. If you can place it behind a hill that would be good. Also, apply for the JREF Million Dollar Challenge. If you succeed, you should have a lot more options on reducing RF.
Re: low-MHz server
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 02:02:09PM -0500, STeve Andre' wrote: > On Wednesday 30 January 2008 13:35:59 Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have an unusual situation and problem at which I've been chipping > > away. The resultant system will need to run OpenBSD so I'm asking here > > for the accumulated wisdom. The base technology predates my IT > > experience. > > > > My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > > She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the higher > > the frequency, the worse her symptoms. For example, a VT is better than > [snip] > > Doug, I think you need to look at things another way. I'm only a little > skeptical of your wife's problems with emf, as I know someone who is > very reasonable who has made the same complaints. > > Make faraday shields for the systems. The systems themselves can be > shielded very well, and you can use copper foil for cables. CRTs can have > copper shielding as well. > > I'll bet you can diminish the RF fields by 50dB for the box(s) and at20dB+ > for the CRTs / LCDs.LCDs are likely better in this regard. Googling for > TEMPEST might reveal some of the methods it uses. The problem is that this may work if the computers were the only source of EMF. However, given the local EMF environment (neighbour's EMF, wireless everything, etc), she has been unable to tolerate Faraday shielding of herself. Don't ask me the physics of that one. There are lots of components of the problem that I can't understand and therefore can't do anything about. The one concrete thing I do know is that she's OK with a VT-520 hooked to a 486 (even if she is close to it) but not when the Athlon is on at the other end of the house in the basement. So this is what I'm working on now. Doug.
Re: [squid-users] Squid.conf deleting host...
I'm stumped. I was in the process of upgrading squid to 3.0 stable to see if this would deal with a bunch of other issues. I've managed to make squid non-operational. Normally this would be material for the squid list. And I've had it posted there for several days, with no useful results. So I went to the default troubleshooting system to make the most minimal system that exhibits the problem. Further down you will find a list of lines that were added to the default squid.conf file to make the problem appear. Now, the problem: In accessing any web page, say http://some.domain.com/path/to/file.html squid replies with a bad URL message saying that it can't retrieve /path/to/file.html. The http:// prefix and the domain name are stripped out. I've gone over my pf.conf file also, and have tried loading a prior version of pf.conf labeled that it was a working copy from before. No joy. The pf.conf rediretion is included below. This started because certain files wouldn't download. They would start, but would stall either immediately or 30K into the file. Same type of file would have no problems from other sources. If I went to a computer outside our firewall, there was no problem. I figured that before I asked the list for help, I should have the courtesy of using the current release. (3.0 Stable 1) In mangling my file for the new version, I over mangled it. (It complained about unknown options.) Rolling back to the old version didn't help. I've also destroyed and recreated the cache directories thinking that it might be some subtle form of cache corruption. I've uninstalled and reinstalled squid-2.5. (I know. That's a winsnooze type thing to do. Grasping as straws.) I'm a bit at a loss on where else to look. ** Environment: Openbsd 3.9 with pf redirecting web requests to squid. Message posted to the squid list earlier. kerberos# squid -v Squid Cache: Version 2.5.STABLE12 configure options: --datadir=/usr/local/share/squid '--enable-auth=basic digest' '--enable-basic-auth-helpers=NCSA YP' --enable-digest-auth-helpers=password '--enable-external-acl-helpers=ip_user unix_group' '--enable-removal-policies=lru heap' --enable-ssl '--enable-storeio=ufs diskd' --localstatedir=/var/squid --enable-pf-transparent --prefix=/usr/local --sysconfdir=/etc Starting from scratch with a copy of the default squid.conf file, I can reproduce the problem with the following changes to the default squid.conf file: http_port 127.0.0.1:3128 cache_mem 64 MB cache_dir ufs /opt/squidcache 100 10 60 acl our_networks src 192.168.1.0/24 http_access allow our_networks Relevant section of pf.conf. Pixel should be 'any' but this version limits the problem to a single host. All other hosts are non-proxied. $lan is the internal interface. # squid redirection rdr on $lan inet proto tcp from pixel to any \ port www -> 127.0.0.1 port 3128 pass in quick on $lan inet proto tcp from any to 127.0.0.1 \ port 3128 keep state #label "web"
Re: brute force voip QoS
> altq on $ext_if priq bandwidth 125Kb queue {std_out, voip_out, \
> lowdelay, lowpri_out}
> queue lowpri_out priority 1
> queue std_out priority 4 priq(default)
> queue voip_out priority 11
> queue lowdelay priority 12
priq priorities are absolute. where there are higher priority
packets waiting to be sent, they'll be transmitted before lower
priority ones (which are likely to be starved out when the link
is bus).
> pass out queue (std_out,lowdelay)
here, you place ACKs from downloads at a higher priority than
your voip calls. this is unlikely to be what you want with priq
over a 140Kb/s link..
there are some other things you could look at too but changing
this would be a good place to start.
Re: low-MHz server
Thanks all for your thinking. Yes its getting OT. I don't mind the OTness but I would also like the T discussion to continue as well. On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 05:47:42PM -0200, Marcus Andree wrote: > The condition your wife is subject to, IMO, is _very_ unusual and > deserves better study... About a year ago, there was a news item on CBC national TV news about a fellow who had a seisure whenever a diesel-electric train went by. He had to move to a trailer in a field miles away from the nearest train line and away from power. I imagine he buys his propane in bulk (light, heat, etc). We contacted Dr. Havas at Trent U. who was interviewed on the topic. Yes our problems go much deeper than just tolerating the computer but this is something which I can chip away at. > I'm increasing the "off-topicness" of this thread, but Daniel is right. > > If your wife is more sensitive to higher frequencies, it should be more > easier to isolate her from electromagnetic fields. Lower frequency > radiation, like the 50 or 60hz coming from our electrical power networks > is more capable of penetrating metallic (or other conductive material) sheets. She's also sensitive to lower-freq and even DC electric fields (e.g. a battery with no external current flow) but in a different manner. OTOH, she got worse when they extended wireless internet and better cell coverage out here (we're in rural south-eastern Ontario). > > So, it's probably more likely that she's sensitive to other classes of > electrical > devices, which should be given more attention... One thing that can > be an issue is tje fact of digital circuits running at higher speed > (gigahertz range) > tends to consume more electrical power, raising the amperage running > in your electrical wires, and, subsequently, the 50 or 60hz electrical field > in close range. > Another reason to use the VT520 (17 Watt) nearer to her and the server farther away. > The digital watch clock is puzzling: surely the quartz cristal inside > nearly every > digital clock isn't in the gigaherts range AND they consume very low power... > The proximity to her body can be a factor... > It could also just be the battery. Thanks, Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
AIUI, tempest shields from the transients from keyboards. I don't know that it shields from all EMF above (arbitrarily) 100 MHz. Besides, I'll bet that to get the tempest certification would cost a whole lot more than even a skid of old servers. Doug. On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 02:41:56PM -0500, bofh wrote: > So, > Look for tempest rated computers? > > On 1/30/08, Daniel A. Ramaley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wednesday 30 January 2008 12:35, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > > >My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > > >She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the > > > higher the frequency, the worse her symptoms.
Re: low-MHz server
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 01:11:58PM -0600, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > On Wednesday 30 January 2008 12:35, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > >My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > >She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the > > higher the frequency, the worse her symptoms. > > Rather than trying to find obsolete equipment that runs at a low > frequency, would it be possible to build a Faraday cage around your > computer? Perhaps, perhaps not. > > Has your wife had her sensitivity examined by medical professionals? Is > it a physical problem or a psychosomatic condition? Yes. Physical. >How does she react to > fluorescent lights? badly > Incandescents? poorly but bette than anything else. > How about driving near a radio transmission tower? Badly. > Or for that matter, even being in a modern car? Badly. Our car is 22 years old and has no computer. > If there is an electronic device turned on in the next room but she is not > aware of it, does she still experience pain? Yes. > I don't need answers to these questions, but if there is a medical > solution to your wife's sensitivity that might be easier than trying > to banish all electronics. A medical solution would be very nice but not forthcoming. Note that apparently in either Norway or Sweeden (I forget which), a whole non-electronic, non-EMF village has been set up for such sensitive people. Hasn't happened in Canada or the US yet. Doug.
Re: low-MHz server
Because the Athlon runs at 3.5 GHz and gives my wife a headache. Most daily apps (mainly email, doc processing and printing) will run fine on a lesser box. Doug. On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 10:54:31AM -0800, Lord Sporkton wrote: > I fail to see why you are moving the applications off the Athlon? why > not just use your apps on the Athlon and ssh to it? it is multi-user > after all > > On 30/01/2008, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have an unusual situation and problem at which I've been chipping > > away. The resultant system will need to run OpenBSD so I'm asking here > > for the accumulated wisdom. The base technology predates my IT > > experience. > > > > My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > > She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the higher > > the frequency, the worse her symptoms. For example, a VT is better than > > a regular CRT connected to even a P-II-233 MHZ while a 486DX4-100 is > > better than the P-II. Both are far better than my Athlon64 @3.5 GHz. > > And any CRT is better than any LCD/plasma screen. Even my Palm Zire (I > > think 233 MHz) with its ~2"x~3" screen is unsuitable within about 30 > > feet of her. She can't wear a digital watch. > > > > For lack of anything suitable, I have been using my Athlon64 for daily > > use, with the P-II used for other-machine backup and ssh access to the > > Athlon64 (one is upstairs, the other is downstairs) for e.g. a quick > > email check. My 486 isn't used right now since it only has 32 MB ram > > and an 850 MB hard drive. The backup set size right now is around 2 GB. > > > > I now have a VT520 which I can put upstairs for those email checks which > > means I can move the P-II farther away from her. > > > > While I want to keep the Athlon64 for serious heavy lifting (graphical > > web browsing, watching DVDs, burning CDs, etc,) I want to move the main > > application server function off of it. The P-II only has 64 MB of ram, > > is a abused box I rescued (full of cat hair and over-heating). I would > > like to get a box (or boxes) that is (are) reliable, run at e.g 133 MHz > > (certainly less than 200 MHz), with lots of ram, and lots of hard drive > > space. Since the apps run on it will be non-graphical, it could be > > headless, accessed via the VT520 or ssh from the Athlon. > > > > I'm thinking that this will be unsuitable for an embedded device like a > > soekris and more like an older multi-disk server. I guess I'll have to > > go to eBay for the hardware since its long gone off any reseller's > > shelf. I don't have any experience with anything other than i386 or > > amd64 so in that line I figure this will be a multiple-CPU 486 or > > Pentium box. > > > > Because the box will be so old, it would have to be one that was popular > > so that spare parts are readily available, but also one that was well > > designed and built in the first place. I can tolerate some down time > > while I swap out parts but I want to be able to keep spares on hand. I > > suppose I could buy 3 complete functioning boxes just for the spares. > > Looking at the packages lists in the different arches that 4.2 works on, > > the four possibilities are i386, alpha, sparc, and sparc64. Since this > > is a finished room in the basement, not a datacenter, I want the box to > > do its own hard drive storage and not just be a compute node that is > > supposed to have a separate box full of drives (unless this is > > straight-forward). I'm envisioning something like a 4- or 5U server > > box. Rackmounting a single servier is fine since I can make a suitable > > shelf to simulate a rack. > > > > Here's the software that I need to run on the box (beyond what is in 4.2 > > base): > > > > vim > > mc > > mutt > > tex > > python > > some kind of printfilter to serve my Epson LQ-2080 impact printer. > > > > > > Here's the hardware-type I'll envisioning: > > > > Multiple CPU so that multiple apps can run better on limited individual > > CPUs, running under 200 MHz > > Probably PCI bus. > > Paralell port for the printer (or I would just use a USB adapter) > > USB for future needs > > serial port for console > > multi-port serial for terminal(s) and my external 3Com Courier modem. > > 10 or 10/100 Ethernet > > Multiple hard drives: IIRC, the older boxes had 9 GB SCSI drives. I > > don't know if one can plunk new eg. 250 GB SCSI drives in them. > > SCSI HBA for a tape drive > > > > > > Any suggestions for good old boxes like this that will run modern > > OpenBSD and be reasonably reliable? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Doug. > > > > > > > -- > -Lawrence > -Student ID 1028219
Re: low-MHz server
On Wednesday 30 January 2008 13:35:59 Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > Hello, > > I have an unusual situation and problem at which I've been chipping > away. The resultant system will need to run OpenBSD so I'm asking here > for the accumulated wisdom. The base technology predates my IT > experience. > > My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the higher > the frequency, the worse her symptoms. For example, a VT is better than [snip] Doug, I think you need to look at things another way. I'm only a little skeptical of your wife's problems with emf, as I know someone who is very reasonable who has made the same complaints. Make faraday shields for the systems. The systems themselves can be shielded very well, and you can use copper foil for cables. CRTs can have copper shielding as well. I'll bet you can diminish the RF fields by 50dB for the box(s) and at20dB+ for the CRTs / LCDs.LCDs are likely better in this regard. Googling for TEMPEST might reveal some of the methods it uses. --STeve Andre'
Re: supported Ethernet alternatives on the EEE PC?
On Jan 30, 2008 11:31 AM, James Hartley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Discussion found in the archives indicated that the Ethernet port > found on the EEE PC was not supported in OpenBSD yet. Has anyone had > luck with any USB NIC? > > Thanks. > > I just tried a new Linksys USB200M (axe(4)) adapter and it worked fine.
Re: brute force voip QoS
> My bandwidth is very very limited. Not more than 140 Kbps on both > sides at any time. I use G729 as a codec in order to reduce > consumption. Use the pf.conf below, when VoIP is the only traffic, > the quality of the calls is excelent with no voice cutting at all. > Now if I start a download I immediatelly see the quality degrade. > > That is why I thought of using some radical policy. That's strange; it may be your connection struggles at much lower bandwidths than nominal - for instance, perhaps it suffers high packet loss at 80% utilization; TCP could recover, but VoIP might be affected. Doing what you want should be quite simple, though. There are many ways I can think of of detecting VoIP traffic if your ruleset manages to - have pf log (all) on a pflog interface dedicated to it, look at queue traffic - and many ways of blocking everything other than that. I can't think of an elegant way of doing what you want, though!
Re: booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
On Jan 30, 2008 9:29 AM, Stefan Kell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, frantisek holop wrote: > > > hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 11:21:40AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > >> frantisek holop wrote: > >>> hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:45:27AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > (short version: just do a normal install to the flash disk) > >>> > >>> how do i boot bsd.rd to make an install to the flash disk? > >>> chicken egg. i dont have an usb cdrom, nor floppy disk. > >>> only usb media. i need to create a bootable usb media... > >>> > >>> -f > >> > >> see the referenced thread... > >> > >> Prep the install device on another machine. Other machine just needs > > > > should have been clearer probably... > > i am on the road. there is no other machine... > > all i have is the eee and the internet and the usb media. > > > > > > my understanding of the boot process process for i386 tells me, > > all i need is ia bootsector from someone who already has an openbsd > > bootable usb media and the instructions which bytes to change > > based on what :) (where is boot(8) on my usb media) > > > > see man installboot and man biosboot: you can't do this easily because > installboot will patch biosboot for the locationinfo of boot. And you > don't > have this information beforehand. > > > OR > > > > something like the zaurus process... install a linux package > > and can run bsd.rd directly from linux. i think this one is > > becoming more and more needed for i386 too, in this world of > > floppyless, cdromless devices... a little utility that > > can run bsd.rd from linux/dos... > > > >> but it would be cheaper to just prep it on another machine. :) > > > > i definitely agree. but if someone is so intimate with the > > boot sector code that can give me this info, saves a lot of > > hassle for me. thats why i wrote to the list, maybe someone > > really is... > > > > > >> (some people will say dd the floppy image onto the flash device, but > >> the functionality of that depends upon your BIOS's USB boot code. > > > > i havent tried this one yet, but just for the kicks i tried > > cd42.iso an that of course didnt work. > > dd floppy image does boot on the eee, but biosboot stops with "ERR M". > Installing OpenBSD to an USB stick definitly works. One other solution > might be > "flashboot", see "http://www.mindrot.org/projects/flashboot/";. There are > binary > images available at "http://tilde.se/flashboot/";. "zcat GENERIC-RD.image | > dd > of=/dev/sd0" under Linux on the eee should give you a bootable USB-Stick > (/dev/sd0 as an example). But I didn't try this myself. > > Anyway, OpenBSD will boot but ethernet does not work: The wired adapter is > not > suppoerted, and the wireless driver reports an error and does not work :-( > > Regards > > Stefan Kell > > Does the system support PXE booting? I don't believe it matters (for PXE booting that is) if it's not supported by OpenBSD. If so, then maybe you could PXE boot and install OpenBSD onto the USB media that way?
Re: low-MHz server
So, Look for tempest rated computers? On 1/30/08, Daniel A. Ramaley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wednesday 30 January 2008 12:35, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > >My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > >She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the > > higher the frequency, the worse her symptoms. > > Rather than trying to find obsolete equipment that runs at a low > frequency, would it be possible to build a Faraday cage around your > computer? > > Has your wife had her sensitivity examined by medical professionals? Is > it a physical problem or a psychosomatic condition? How does she react > to fluorescent lights? Incandescents? How about driving near a radio > transmission tower? Or for that matter, even being in a modern car? If > there is an electronic device turned on in the next room but she is not > aware of it, does she still experience pain? I don't need answers to > these questions, but if there is a medical solution to your wife's > sensitivity that might be easier than trying to banish all electronics. > > > Dan RamaleyDial Center 118, Drake University > Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave > +1 515 271-4540Des Moines IA 50311 USA > > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related
Re: Dell PowerEdge 1950 III / R200
--- Reza Muhammad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm looking to buy a server that supports OpenBSD and I'm looking at > either Dell PowerEdge 1950 III > or Dell PowerEdge R200. I noticed Marco (marco@)'s message about > Dell PERC 6i that exists on > PowerEdge 1950 III and R2000. But, if I'm not going to use RAID and > only use Serial ATA hard drive, would I be > able to install OpenBSD on it? I just did a test install of a new PowerEdge R200 [1]. 4.2 Release would not install on it. I achieved an install only with a very recent snapshot (28-01-08). So far, everything is working. I do not have any RAID card but one that can be purchased with the R200, the LSI/SAS5iR, is listed as supported by mpi [2] on the i386 page. [1] http://www.nycbug.org/?NAV=dmesgd;f_dmesg=;f_bsd=;f_nick=;f_descr=;dmesgid=1929#1929 [2] http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=mpi&arch=i386&sektion=4 /juan Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
Re: low-MHz server
The condition your wife is subject to, IMO, is _very_ unusual and deserves better study... I'm increasing the "off-topicness" of this thread, but Daniel is right. If your wife is more sensitive to higher frequencies, it should be more easier to isolate her from electromagnetic fields. Lower frequency radiation, like the 50 or 60hz coming from our electrical power networks is more capable of penetrating metallic (or other conductive material) sheets. So, it's probably more likely that she's sensitive to other classes of electrical devices, which should be given more attention... One thing that can be an issue is tje fact of digital circuits running at higher speed (gigahertz range) tends to consume more electrical power, raising the amperage running in your electrical wires, and, subsequently, the 50 or 60hz electrical field in close range. The digital watch clock is puzzling: surely the quartz cristal inside nearly every digital clock isn't in the gigaherts range AND they consume very low power... The proximity to her body can be a factor... On 1/30/08, Daniel A. Ramaley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wednesday 30 January 2008 12:35, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > >My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > >She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the > > higher the frequency, the worse her symptoms. > > Rather than trying to find obsolete equipment that runs at a low > frequency, would it be possible to build a Faraday cage around your > computer? > > Has your wife had her sensitivity examined by medical professionals? Is > it a physical problem or a psychosomatic condition? How does she react > to fluorescent lights? Incandescents? How about driving near a radio > transmission tower? Or for that matter, even being in a modern car? If > there is an electronic device turned on in the next room but she is not > aware of it, does she still experience pain? I don't need answers to > these questions, but if there is a medical solution to your wife's > sensitivity that might be easier than trying to banish all electronics. > > > Dan RamaleyDial Center 118, Drake University > Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave > +1 515 271-4540Des Moines IA 50311 USA
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
On Jan 30, 2008 9:35 AM, Stefan Kell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, Raimo Niskanen wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 10:31:28PM -0500, Richard Daemon wrote: > >> ... > >>> > >>> But of course you have "boot -a" at the boot prompt for selecting the > root > >>> device. And I want to try the same the next days :-) > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Stefan Kell > >>> > >> > >> That brings up another question, hopefully there's an answer... rather > than > >> having to do boot -a (even from boot.conf) and be present to hit > > >> during root device selection, is there an easy way to tell it, yes, > choose > >> the default it sees after this? > >> > > > > Not that I am certain it would solve your problem completely, > > but I would love having a boot(8) prompt command > > boot [image [root] [-acds]] > > and > > set root [value] > > It would then also be possible to set it in /etc/boot.conf. > > > > But as far as I know it is a missing feature. And I > > do not think the kernel is able to get root device > > as an argument (yet). > > > > Another not as good and still missing feature would be > > to be able to set root device from boot_config(8). > > > > > > > >> ie: if I do a full install on a USB flash, boot up normal, it panics > into > >> ddb> mode because of root device as wd0 when it should be sd0. If I do > boot > >> -a, it asks for default of sd0 rather than wd0 but expects manual > >> intervention, such as pressing . Is there a way to bypass this > other > >> than recompile a new, custom kernel? > >> > > The Generic kernel on i386 tries hard to find the correct boot device and > assumes the the rootfilesystem is on partition "a" on this device. So if > your kernel and boot files are on the USB-stick, the kernel should not > panic but use sd0a as rootfilesystem. > > Regards > > Stefan Kell > > That's what I tried as a test, installed 4.2-RELEASE (even 4.2-STABLE via release(8)) and previous versions, all using GENERIC kernel. As a test, I install OpenBSD onto the USB Flash, using the whole device (sd0a) as /. Set the BIOS to boot off of USB, the install completes ok, then after the initial reboot, during bootup, it panics into ddb> mode and a few lines above, it shows "root device on wd0a" rather than sd0a. When I do a boot -a, it detects the proper root device and works ok this way, but of course requires the manual intervention of having to press or to be physically at the console. I've tried with boot sd0a:/bsd, boot hd0a:/bsd, etc. still no luck unless I do a boot -a. Is there a way to save the dmesg once in ddb> to a file on floppy or USB? On this system, I have OpenBSD running on a HD as well - and the other weird thing I noticed is that when I boot -a in order to properly boot off of the USB device, it sees it's own dmesg and a pre-pended dmesg of the OpenBSD install on the local HDD. Is the problem some how inter-related with already having an install on a local drive, on the same system?
Re: brute force voip QoS
Hi,
Thanks for your insights.
> - Original Message -
> From: scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 1. Your topology: On the "inside" lan, are you hosting clients or
> service? So is this an outside-to-inside -or- an inside-to-outside
> problem?
VoIP Clients. ATAs. This is an inside-to-outside problem.
>
> 2. altq queue-type priq effectively does what your asking -- if voip
> traffic is allocated to priority 6, then nothing flows from queues 5, 4,
> 3, 2, and 1 while the q6 "bucket is wet."
My bandwidth is very very limited. Not more than 140 Kbps on both
sides at any time. I use G729 as a codec in order to reduce
consumption. Use the pf.conf below, when VoIP is the only traffic,
the quality of the calls is excelent with no voice cutting at all.
Now if I start a download I immediatelly see the quality degrade.
That is why I thought of using some radical policy.
I would appreciate any comments on this ruleset.
ext_if="fxp0"
int_if="vr0"
lan_net=$int_if:network
voipservers = "{ 200.184.77.145, 200.184.77.138 } "
atas = "{ 192.168.2.33 }"
low_pri="{ ftp-data, ftp, www, https }"
set skip on lo
set loginterface $ext_if
altq on $ext_if priq bandwidth 125Kb queue {std_out, voip_out, \
lowdelay, lowpri_out}
queue lowpri_out priority 1
queue std_out priority 4 priq(default)
queue voip_out priority 11
queue lowdelay priority 12
altq on $int_if priq bandwidth 125Kb queue {std_in, voip_in, lowpri_in}
queue lowpri_in priority 1
queue std_in priority 4 priq (default)
queue voip_in priority 6
nat on $ext_if from !($ext_if) -> ($ext_if:0)
block in log
pass out queue (std_out,lowdelay)
pass out on $ext_if inet proto {tcp udp} from ($ext_if) to any \
port $low_pri queue lowpri_out
pass in on $int_if from $int_if:network
pass in on $int_if from $atas to any queue voip_in
pass out on $int_if from any to $int_if:network
pass out on $int_if proto {udp,tcp} from any \
port $low_pri to $int_if:network queue lowpri_in
antispoof quick for { lo $int_if }
pass in on $ext_if proto tcp to ($ext_if) port 2220 queue (std_out, lowdelay)
pass out on $ext_if inet proto udp from any to $voipservers queue voip_out
keep
Regards,
Jeff.
--
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Re: low-MHz server
On Wednesday 30 January 2008 12:35, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: >My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. >She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the > higher the frequency, the worse her symptoms. Rather than trying to find obsolete equipment that runs at a low frequency, would it be possible to build a Faraday cage around your computer? Has your wife had her sensitivity examined by medical professionals? Is it a physical problem or a psychosomatic condition? How does she react to fluorescent lights? Incandescents? How about driving near a radio transmission tower? Or for that matter, even being in a modern car? If there is an electronic device turned on in the next room but she is not aware of it, does she still experience pain? I don't need answers to these questions, but if there is a medical solution to your wife's sensitivity that might be easier than trying to banish all electronics. Dan RamaleyDial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540Des Moines IA 50311 USA
Re: low-MHz server
I fail to see why you are moving the applications off the Athlon? why not just use your apps on the Athlon and ssh to it? it is multi-user after all On 30/01/2008, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > I have an unusual situation and problem at which I've been chipping > away. The resultant system will need to run OpenBSD so I'm asking here > for the accumulated wisdom. The base technology predates my IT > experience. > > My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. > She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the higher > the frequency, the worse her symptoms. For example, a VT is better than > a regular CRT connected to even a P-II-233 MHZ while a 486DX4-100 is > better than the P-II. Both are far better than my Athlon64 @3.5 GHz. > And any CRT is better than any LCD/plasma screen. Even my Palm Zire (I > think 233 MHz) with its ~2"x~3" screen is unsuitable within about 30 > feet of her. She can't wear a digital watch. > > For lack of anything suitable, I have been using my Athlon64 for daily > use, with the P-II used for other-machine backup and ssh access to the > Athlon64 (one is upstairs, the other is downstairs) for e.g. a quick > email check. My 486 isn't used right now since it only has 32 MB ram > and an 850 MB hard drive. The backup set size right now is around 2 GB. > > I now have a VT520 which I can put upstairs for those email checks which > means I can move the P-II farther away from her. > > While I want to keep the Athlon64 for serious heavy lifting (graphical > web browsing, watching DVDs, burning CDs, etc,) I want to move the main > application server function off of it. The P-II only has 64 MB of ram, > is a abused box I rescued (full of cat hair and over-heating). I would > like to get a box (or boxes) that is (are) reliable, run at e.g 133 MHz > (certainly less than 200 MHz), with lots of ram, and lots of hard drive > space. Since the apps run on it will be non-graphical, it could be > headless, accessed via the VT520 or ssh from the Athlon. > > I'm thinking that this will be unsuitable for an embedded device like a > soekris and more like an older multi-disk server. I guess I'll have to > go to eBay for the hardware since its long gone off any reseller's > shelf. I don't have any experience with anything other than i386 or > amd64 so in that line I figure this will be a multiple-CPU 486 or > Pentium box. > > Because the box will be so old, it would have to be one that was popular > so that spare parts are readily available, but also one that was well > designed and built in the first place. I can tolerate some down time > while I swap out parts but I want to be able to keep spares on hand. I > suppose I could buy 3 complete functioning boxes just for the spares. > Looking at the packages lists in the different arches that 4.2 works on, > the four possibilities are i386, alpha, sparc, and sparc64. Since this > is a finished room in the basement, not a datacenter, I want the box to > do its own hard drive storage and not just be a compute node that is > supposed to have a separate box full of drives (unless this is > straight-forward). I'm envisioning something like a 4- or 5U server > box. Rackmounting a single servier is fine since I can make a suitable > shelf to simulate a rack. > > Here's the software that I need to run on the box (beyond what is in 4.2 > base): > > vim > mc > mutt > tex > python > some kind of printfilter to serve my Epson LQ-2080 impact printer. > > > Here's the hardware-type I'll envisioning: > > Multiple CPU so that multiple apps can run better on limited individual > CPUs, running under 200 MHz > Probably PCI bus. > Paralell port for the printer (or I would just use a USB adapter) > USB for future needs > serial port for console > multi-port serial for terminal(s) and my external 3Com Courier modem. > 10 or 10/100 Ethernet > Multiple hard drives: IIRC, the older boxes had 9 GB SCSI drives. I > don't know if one can plunk new eg. 250 GB SCSI drives in them. > SCSI HBA for a tape drive > > > Any suggestions for good old boxes like this that will run modern > OpenBSD and be reasonably reliable? > > Thanks, > > Doug. > > -- -Lawrence -Student ID 1028219
Re: File upload/download to https server
On 30/01/2008, Stuart VanZee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have an upcoming project where I need to be able to automate the upload > and > download of files to/from an HTTPS server (not owned by me). The server > says > it requires 128 bit encryption. I would like to be able to do this using > python because it is the language that I know the best and it is available > on > the OpenBSD box that I would like to do this all from. (please note I am > not > a real great programmer, but I get by). > > I have done some research and found py-OpenSSL in ports, and on another > project have used ClientForm for python although I haven't figured out how > to > get them to work together. > > Am I going in the right direction? Is what I need to do even possible? You should be able to do this with the stock Python port and this: http://odin.himinbi.org/MultipartPostHandler.py Stock urllib2 can handle all the HTTPS work, cookielib any cookie needs, and MultipartPostHandler will take care of building out the proper multipart form with file data. -Paul -- // Paul M. Hirsch // // paul at voltagenoir.org // // PGPkeyID 0x92205DEF //
low-MHz server
Hello, I have an unusual situation and problem at which I've been chipping away. The resultant system will need to run OpenBSD so I'm asking here for the accumulated wisdom. The base technology predates my IT experience. My wife is sensitive to what she describes as electromagnetic fields. She gets headaches and other pains when exposed to equipment: the higher the frequency, the worse her symptoms. For example, a VT is better than a regular CRT connected to even a P-II-233 MHZ while a 486DX4-100 is better than the P-II. Both are far better than my Athlon64 @3.5 GHz. And any CRT is better than any LCD/plasma screen. Even my Palm Zire (I think 233 MHz) with its ~2"x~3" screen is unsuitable within about 30 feet of her. She can't wear a digital watch. For lack of anything suitable, I have been using my Athlon64 for daily use, with the P-II used for other-machine backup and ssh access to the Athlon64 (one is upstairs, the other is downstairs) for e.g. a quick email check. My 486 isn't used right now since it only has 32 MB ram and an 850 MB hard drive. The backup set size right now is around 2 GB. I now have a VT520 which I can put upstairs for those email checks which means I can move the P-II farther away from her. While I want to keep the Athlon64 for serious heavy lifting (graphical web browsing, watching DVDs, burning CDs, etc,) I want to move the main application server function off of it. The P-II only has 64 MB of ram, is a abused box I rescued (full of cat hair and over-heating). I would like to get a box (or boxes) that is (are) reliable, run at e.g 133 MHz (certainly less than 200 MHz), with lots of ram, and lots of hard drive space. Since the apps run on it will be non-graphical, it could be headless, accessed via the VT520 or ssh from the Athlon. I'm thinking that this will be unsuitable for an embedded device like a soekris and more like an older multi-disk server. I guess I'll have to go to eBay for the hardware since its long gone off any reseller's shelf. I don't have any experience with anything other than i386 or amd64 so in that line I figure this will be a multiple-CPU 486 or Pentium box. Because the box will be so old, it would have to be one that was popular so that spare parts are readily available, but also one that was well designed and built in the first place. I can tolerate some down time while I swap out parts but I want to be able to keep spares on hand. I suppose I could buy 3 complete functioning boxes just for the spares. Looking at the packages lists in the different arches that 4.2 works on, the four possibilities are i386, alpha, sparc, and sparc64. Since this is a finished room in the basement, not a datacenter, I want the box to do its own hard drive storage and not just be a compute node that is supposed to have a separate box full of drives (unless this is straight-forward). I'm envisioning something like a 4- or 5U server box. Rackmounting a single servier is fine since I can make a suitable shelf to simulate a rack. Here's the software that I need to run on the box (beyond what is in 4.2 base): vim mc mutt tex python some kind of printfilter to serve my Epson LQ-2080 impact printer. Here's the hardware-type I'll envisioning: Multiple CPU so that multiple apps can run better on limited individual CPUs, running under 200 MHz Probably PCI bus. Paralell port for the printer (or I would just use a USB adapter) USB for future needs serial port for console multi-port serial for terminal(s) and my external 3Com Courier modem. 10 or 10/100 Ethernet Multiple hard drives: IIRC, the older boxes had 9 GB SCSI drives. I don't know if one can plunk new eg. 250 GB SCSI drives in them. SCSI HBA for a tape drive Any suggestions for good old boxes like this that will run modern OpenBSD and be reasonably reliable? Thanks, Doug.
Re: export NFS mounted fs
Alexey Vatchenko wrote: > Any chance to export via NFS filesystem mounted using NFS? > > What i need to accomplish is the following: > NFS server --> pf-enabled gateway < NFS client I'd set up a vpn. # Han
Plavuse nisu glupe
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Re: File upload/download to https server
> I have an upcoming project where I need to be able to automate the upload and > download of files to/from an HTTPS server (not owned by me). The server says > it requires 128 bit encryption. I would like to be able to do this using > python because it is the language that I know the best and it is available on > the OpenBSD box that I would like to do this all from. (please note I am not > a real great programmer, but I get by). ftp my do the job depending on your specific needs. OpenBSD's ftp supports https URLs, no programming or ports needed -N
Re: File upload/download to https server
Personally I like to use stunnel to wrapper my tcp application to connect to a ssl server/client. So you don't need to spend too much time on make them 'working together'. Arthur - Original Message - From: "Stuart VanZee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Openbsd Misc (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:58 AM Subject: File upload/download to https server > Hello everyone. > > I have an upcoming project where I need to be able to automate the upload and > download of files to/from an HTTPS server (not owned by me). The server says > it requires 128 bit encryption. I would like to be able to do this using > python because it is the language that I know the best and it is available on > the OpenBSD box that I would like to do this all from. (please note I am not > a real great programmer, but I get by). > > I have done some research and found py-OpenSSL in ports, and on another > project have used ClientForm for python although I haven't figured out how to > get them to work together. > > Am I going in the right direction? Is what I need to do even possible? > > Thank you for any help. > > Stuart van Zee > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: export NFS mounted fs
Here are my settings: On the client: Nfs-server:/export1 - /export1 nfs - yes soft,bg,intr,proto=udp On PF firewall: # NFS allowed scrub in all no-df #internal int pass in on $int_if from $client to $server #external int pass out on $ext_if from $client to $server Rami Sik -Original Message- From: Alexey Vatchenko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexey Vatchenko Sent: January 30, 2008 9:09 AM To: Rami Sik Cc: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: export NFS mounted fs Rami Sik wrote: > Why don't you try mounting the exports on NFS server directly from NFS > client? You should be using udp and put some special rules in PF as it > has been suggested in the PF doc. I didn't do it because it's not easy to update pf with appropriate port numbers when mountd starts. Unfortunately, i can't find anything regarding NFS (except scrubing). Please, point me to what you mean. Thanks. -- Alexey Vatchenko http://www.bsdua.org
Re: export NFS mounted fs
Rami Sik wrote: Why don't you try mounting the exports on NFS server directly from NFS client? You should be using udp and put some special rules in PF as it has been suggested in the PF doc. I didn't do it because it's not easy to update pf with appropriate port numbers when mountd starts. Unfortunately, i can't find anything regarding NFS (except scrubing). Please, point me to what you mean. Thanks. -- Alexey Vatchenko http://www.bsdua.org
Re: carped trunk or trunked carp or what?
On 08-01-30 17:50, Kent Watsen wrote: hme0 \ hme1 \ /- vlan0 --- carp0 --- trunk0 - vlan1 --- carp1 hme2 / \- valn2 --- carp2 hme3 / I say this is the way to go. You can consider trunk0 a physical interface (consisting of four underlaying interfaces). Since you probably want to have different IP networks on the different vlans you add carp on top of the vlans. I've set up boxes this way, but without the trunk. /Johan
Re: File upload/download to https server
Hello, I don't know Python but cURL provide several APIs to do that from various programming languages (check http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/bindings.html ). curl (CLI version) can be found in ports. Regards On 30/01/2008, Stuart VanZee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello everyone. > > I have an upcoming project where I need to be able to automate the upload > and > download of files to/from an HTTPS server (not owned by me). The server > says > it requires 128 bit encryption. I would like to be able to do this using > python because it is the language that I know the best and it is available > on > the OpenBSD box that I would like to do this all from. (please note I am > not > a real great programmer, but I get by). > > I have done some research and found py-OpenSSL in ports, and on another > project have used ClientForm for python although I haven't figured out how > to > get them to work together. > > Am I going in the right direction? Is what I need to do even possible? > > Thank you for any help. > > Stuart van Zee > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
carped trunk or trunked carp or what?
I'm trying to setup CARP for my gateway. Both my gateways have 6 interfaces - one for uplink to ISP - one for CARP/pfsync - four that are trunked and then have vlans running on top of My current setup looks some like this: hme0 \ hme1 \ /- vlan0 --- trunk0 - vlan1 hme2 / \- valn2 hme3 / In order to introduce CARP, which of the following setup's should I be looking into? hme0 --- carp0 \ hme1 --- carp1 \ /- vlan0 --- trunk0 - vlan1 hme2 --- carp2 / \- valn2 hme3 --- carp3 / OR hme0 \ hme1 \ /- vlan0 --- trunk0 --- carp0 -- vlan1 hme2 / \- valn2 hme3 / OR hme0 \ hme1 \ /- vlan0 --- carp0 --- trunk0 - vlan1 --- carp1 hme2 / \- valn2 --- carp2 hme3 / The first of these choices makes the most sense to me, because it keeps CARP close to the physical interface, but netstart has a comment in it saying that trunk needs to come up first... Any ideas? Thanks, Kent
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
On 2008/01/30 15:26, Dennis Davis wrote: > > "wireless driver reports an error and does not work" is short on > detail. It might just be that non-free firmware needs installing > (eg the firmware for the iwi driver) to get it to work. people with Eee PC need to test -current snapshots, the wd/wdc changes which are in them (not yet committed) will affect you (hopefully to your advantage, there should be much lower cpu use during disk activity). http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=120159790520579&w=2
Re: export NFS mounted fs
Why don't you try mounting the exports on NFS server directly from NFS client? You should be using udp and put some special rules in PF as it has been suggested in the PF doc. Rami Sik -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexey Vatchenko Sent: January 30, 2008 6:38 AM To: misc@openbsd.org Subject: export NFS mounted fs Hi! Any chance to export via NFS filesystem mounted using NFS? What i need to accomplish is the following: NFS server --> pf-enabled gateway < NFS client mountd on gateway tells: Can't get fh for /share and client tells accordingly: can't access /share: Invalid argument -- Alexey Vatchenko http://www.bsdua.org
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, Raimo Niskanen wrote: > From: Raimo Niskanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: misc@openbsd.org > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:50:30 +0100 > Subject: Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom ... > > Anyway, OpenBSD will boot but ethernet does not work: The wired > > adapter is not suppoerted, and the wireless driver reports an > > error and does not work :-( > > Then one could create such a bootable image and throw in the file > sets too, that is: most of the /4.2/i386 download directory except > install42.iso, but the size would be about 250 MByte. > > If the ethernet adapters does not work, what is the use? "wireless driver reports an error and does not work" is short on detail. It might just be that non-free firmware needs installing (eg the firmware for the iwi driver) to get it to work. -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +44 1225 386101
File upload/download to https server
Hello everyone. I have an upcoming project where I need to be able to automate the upload and download of files to/from an HTTPS server (not owned by me). The server says it requires 128 bit encryption. I would like to be able to do this using python because it is the language that I know the best and it is available on the OpenBSD box that I would like to do this all from. (please note I am not a real great programmer, but I get by). I have done some research and found py-OpenSSL in ports, and on another project have used ClientForm for python although I haven't figured out how to get them to work together. Am I going in the right direction? Is what I need to do even possible? Thank you for any help. Stuart van Zee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 03:29:46PM +0100, Stefan Kell wrote: > Hello, > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, frantisek holop wrote: > > >hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 11:21:40AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > >>frantisek holop wrote: > >>>hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:45:27AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > (short version: just do a normal install to the flash disk) > >>> > >>>how do i boot bsd.rd to make an install to the flash disk? > >>>chicken egg. i dont have an usb cdrom, nor floppy disk. > >>>only usb media. i need to create a bootable usb media... > >>> > >>>-f > >> > >>see the referenced thread... > >> > >>Prep the install device on another machine. Other machine just needs > > > >should have been clearer probably... > >i am on the road. there is no other machine... > >all i have is the eee and the internet and the usb media. > > > > > >my understanding of the boot process process for i386 tells me, > >all i need is ia bootsector from someone who already has an openbsd > >bootable usb media and the instructions which bytes to change > >based on what :) (where is boot(8) on my usb media) > > > > see man installboot and man biosboot: you can't do this easily because > installboot will patch biosboot for the locationinfo of boot. And you don't > have this information beforehand. > > >OR > > > >something like the zaurus process... install a linux package > >and can run bsd.rd directly from linux. i think this one is > >becoming more and more needed for i386 too, in this world of > >floppyless, cdromless devices... a little utility that > >can run bsd.rd from linux/dos... > > > >>but it would be cheaper to just prep it on another machine. :) > > > >i definitely agree. but if someone is so intimate with the > >boot sector code that can give me this info, saves a lot of > >hassle for me. thats why i wrote to the list, maybe someone > >really is... > > > > > >>(some people will say dd the floppy image onto the flash device, but > >>the functionality of that depends upon your BIOS's USB boot code. > > > >i havent tried this one yet, but just for the kicks i tried > >cd42.iso an that of course didnt work. > > dd floppy image does boot on the eee, but biosboot stops with "ERR M". > Installing OpenBSD to an USB stick definitly works. One other solution > might be > "flashboot", see "http://www.mindrot.org/projects/flashboot/";. There are > binary > images available at "http://tilde.se/flashboot/";. "zcat GENERIC-RD.image | > dd > of=/dev/sd0" under Linux on the eee should give you a bootable USB-Stick > (/dev/sd0 as an example). But I didn't try this myself. > > Anyway, OpenBSD will boot but ethernet does not work: The wired adapter is > not > suppoerted, and the wireless driver reports an error and does not work :-( > Then one could create such a bootable image and throw in the file sets too, that is: most of the /4.2/i386 download directory except install42.iso, but the size would be about 250 MByte. If the ethernet adapters does not work, what is the use? > Regards > > Stefan Kell -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
Hello, On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, Raimo Niskanen wrote: On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 10:31:28PM -0500, Richard Daemon wrote: ... But of course you have "boot -a" at the boot prompt for selecting the root device. And I want to try the same the next days :-) Regards Stefan Kell That brings up another question, hopefully there's an answer... rather than having to do boot -a (even from boot.conf) and be present to hit during root device selection, is there an easy way to tell it, yes, choose the default it sees after this? Not that I am certain it would solve your problem completely, but I would love having a boot(8) prompt command boot [image [root] [-acds]] and set root [value] It would then also be possible to set it in /etc/boot.conf. But as far as I know it is a missing feature. And I do not think the kernel is able to get root device as an argument (yet). Another not as good and still missing feature would be to be able to set root device from boot_config(8). ie: if I do a full install on a USB flash, boot up normal, it panics into ddb> mode because of root device as wd0 when it should be sd0. If I do boot -a, it asks for default of sd0 rather than wd0 but expects manual intervention, such as pressing . Is there a way to bypass this other than recompile a new, custom kernel? The Generic kernel on i386 tries hard to find the correct boot device and assumes the the rootfilesystem is on partition "a" on this device. So if your kernel and boot files are on the USB-stick, the kernel should not panic but use sd0a as rootfilesystem. Regards Stefan Kell
export NFS mounted fs
Hi! Any chance to export via NFS filesystem mounted using NFS? What i need to accomplish is the following: NFS server --> pf-enabled gateway < NFS client mountd on gateway tells: Can't get fh for /share and client tells accordingly: can't access /share: Invalid argument -- Alexey Vatchenko http://www.bsdua.org
Re: booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
Hello, On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, frantisek holop wrote: hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 11:21:40AM -0500, Nick Holland said that frantisek holop wrote: hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:45:27AM -0500, Nick Holland said that (short version: just do a normal install to the flash disk) how do i boot bsd.rd to make an install to the flash disk? chicken egg. i dont have an usb cdrom, nor floppy disk. only usb media. i need to create a bootable usb media... -f see the referenced thread... Prep the install device on another machine. Other machine just needs should have been clearer probably... i am on the road. there is no other machine... all i have is the eee and the internet and the usb media. my understanding of the boot process process for i386 tells me, all i need is ia bootsector from someone who already has an openbsd bootable usb media and the instructions which bytes to change based on what :) (where is boot(8) on my usb media) see man installboot and man biosboot: you can't do this easily because installboot will patch biosboot for the locationinfo of boot. And you don't have this information beforehand. OR something like the zaurus process... install a linux package and can run bsd.rd directly from linux. i think this one is becoming more and more needed for i386 too, in this world of floppyless, cdromless devices... a little utility that can run bsd.rd from linux/dos... but it would be cheaper to just prep it on another machine. :) i definitely agree. but if someone is so intimate with the boot sector code that can give me this info, saves a lot of hassle for me. thats why i wrote to the list, maybe someone really is... (some people will say dd the floppy image onto the flash device, but the functionality of that depends upon your BIOS's USB boot code. i havent tried this one yet, but just for the kicks i tried cd42.iso an that of course didnt work. dd floppy image does boot on the eee, but biosboot stops with "ERR M". Installing OpenBSD to an USB stick definitly works. One other solution might be "flashboot", see "http://www.mindrot.org/projects/flashboot/";. There are binary images available at "http://tilde.se/flashboot/";. "zcat GENERIC-RD.image | dd of=/dev/sd0" under Linux on the eee should give you a bootable USB-Stick (/dev/sd0 as an example). But I didn't try this myself. Anyway, OpenBSD will boot but ethernet does not work: The wired adapter is not suppoerted, and the wireless driver reports an error and does not work :-( Regards Stefan Kell
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 01:16:11PM +0100, frantisek holop wrote: > hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 11:21:40AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > > frantisek holop wrote: > > >hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:45:27AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > > >>(short version: just do a normal install to the flash disk) > > > > > >how do i boot bsd.rd to make an install to the flash disk? > > >chicken egg. i dont have an usb cdrom, nor floppy disk. > > >only usb media. i need to create a bootable usb media... > > > > > >-f > > > > see the referenced thread... > > > > Prep the install device on another machine. Other machine just needs > > should have been clearer probably... > i am on the road. there is no other machine... > all i have is the eee and the internet and the usb media. > > > my understanding of the boot process process for i386 tells me, > all i need is ia bootsector from someone who already has an openbsd > bootable usb media and the instructions which bytes to change > based on what :) (where is boot(8) on my usb media) > The problem is that installboot(8) writes biosboot(8) to the partition boot record and in that process "inserts the block number and offset of the inode of the second-stage boot program boot(8) so that the biosboot(8) program can load it". So although it is trivial to give you a PBR it is not simple to find out how to change it to load boot(8) on your particular USB media. Another problem is that for biosboot(8) and boot(8) to work they and /bsd or /bsd.rd must be on a Berkley Fast File System, OpenBSD's filesystem. So, to create the filesystem and prepare it for boot, you or someone else need both an OpenBSD machine and the USB media. I know of no ISOLINUX loadable bsd.rd, although it might be possible. The OpenBSD kernel is not of the same executable format as the Linux kernel, so ISOLINUX is not applicable, as I know it. > OR > > something like the zaurus process... install a linux package > and can run bsd.rd directly from linux. i think this one is > becoming more and more needed for i386 too, in this world of > floppyless, cdromless devices... a little utility that > can run bsd.rd from linux/dos... > > > but it would be cheaper to just prep it on another machine. :) > > i definitely agree. but if someone is so intimate with the > boot sector code that can give me this info, saves a lot of > hassle for me. thats why i wrote to the list, maybe someone > really is... > If someone would create a bootable USB media containing just a ffs root partition with /boot and /bsd (renamed bsd.rd), about 6 MByte should suffice, would it be enough to dd it into a binary image for you to somehow (have you got the means?) write it onto the USB media? If your Eee runs Linux as they are supposed to, it should be as simple as dd. Would you prefer 4.2 or a current (Jan 28) snapshot? > > > (some people will say dd the floppy image onto the flash device, but > > the functionality of that depends upon your BIOS's USB boot code. > > i havent tried this one yet, but just for the kicks i tried > cd42.iso an that of course didnt work. > If you haven't, try floppy42.fs instead. It works on some older machines. > -f > -- > recursive, adj.; see recursive -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
On Jan 30, 2008 7:16 AM, frantisek holop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 11:21:40AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > > frantisek holop wrote: > > >hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:45:27AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > > >>(short version: just do a normal install to the flash disk) > > > > > >how do i boot bsd.rd to make an install to the flash disk? > > >chicken egg. i dont have an usb cdrom, nor floppy disk. > > >only usb media. i need to create a bootable usb media... > > > > > >-f > > > > see the referenced thread... > > > > Prep the install device on another machine. Other machine just needs > > should have been clearer probably... > i am on the road. there is no other machine... > all i have is the eee and the internet and the usb media. > > > my understanding of the boot process process for i386 tells me, > all i need is ia bootsector from someone who already has an openbsd > bootable usb media and the instructions which bytes to change > based on what :) (where is boot(8) on my usb media) > > OR > > something like the zaurus process... install a linux package > and can run bsd.rd directly from linux. i think this one is > becoming more and more needed for i386 too, in this world of > floppyless, cdromless devices... a little utility that > can run bsd.rd from linux/dos... > > > but it would be cheaper to just prep it on another machine. :) > > i definitely agree. but if someone is so intimate with the > boot sector code that can give me this info, saves a lot of > hassle for me. thats why i wrote to the list, maybe someone > really is... > > > > (some people will say dd the floppy image onto the flash device, but > > the functionality of that depends upon your BIOS's USB boot code. > > i havent tried this one yet, but just for the kicks i tried > cd42.iso an that of course didnt work. > > -f > -- > recursive, adj.; see recursive > > Have you tried cdbr instead of cd42.iso? What about PXE Booting?
Re: booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 11:21:40AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > frantisek holop wrote: > >hmm, on Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:45:27AM -0500, Nick Holland said that > >>(short version: just do a normal install to the flash disk) > > > >how do i boot bsd.rd to make an install to the flash disk? > >chicken egg. i dont have an usb cdrom, nor floppy disk. > >only usb media. i need to create a bootable usb media... > > > >-f > > see the referenced thread... > > Prep the install device on another machine. Other machine just needs should have been clearer probably... i am on the road. there is no other machine... all i have is the eee and the internet and the usb media. my understanding of the boot process process for i386 tells me, all i need is ia bootsector from someone who already has an openbsd bootable usb media and the instructions which bytes to change based on what :) (where is boot(8) on my usb media) OR something like the zaurus process... install a linux package and can run bsd.rd directly from linux. i think this one is becoming more and more needed for i386 too, in this world of floppyless, cdromless devices... a little utility that can run bsd.rd from linux/dos... > but it would be cheaper to just prep it on another machine. :) i definitely agree. but if someone is so intimate with the boot sector code that can give me this info, saves a lot of hassle for me. thats why i wrote to the list, maybe someone really is... > (some people will say dd the floppy image onto the flash device, but > the functionality of that depends upon your BIOS's USB boot code. i havent tried this one yet, but just for the kicks i tried cd42.iso an that of course didnt work. -f -- recursive, adj.; see recursive
Re: cvs running behind?
OK, I understand. But the 4.1-stable patch still is not present at the mirrors I tried. Isn't this taking too long? I suspect that something is preventing the patch from reaching the mirrors. Maurice On Tuesday, January 29, 2008 at 11:26:35 -0800, Chris Kuethe wrote: >CVS fan-out takes a while. Just keep an eye on it, and I'll try get >the regular patch files and errata entries posted tonight. > >CK > >On Jan 29, 2008 11:06 AM, Maurice Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I saw an email on the cvs list about some security fixes for 4.1-stable >> and 4.2-stable. It seems that the patches for 4.1-stable didn't make it >> all the way to the cvs-servers. For example, >> http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/XF4/xc/lib/font/bitmap/pcfread.c >> still has the old version and also through anoncvs I can't find the new >> versions. >> >> Am I missing something or is there a hickup somewhere? >> >> Maurice >> >> > > > >-- >GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too?
Re: : booting openbsd on eee without cd-rom
On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 10:31:28PM -0500, Richard Daemon wrote: > ... > > > > But of course you have "boot -a" at the boot prompt for selecting the root > > device. And I want to try the same the next days :-) > > > > Regards > > > > Stefan Kell > > > > That brings up another question, hopefully there's an answer... rather than > having to do boot -a (even from boot.conf) and be present to hit > during root device selection, is there an easy way to tell it, yes, choose > the default it sees after this? > Not that I am certain it would solve your problem completely, but I would love having a boot(8) prompt command boot [image [root] [-acds]] and set root [value] It would then also be possible to set it in /etc/boot.conf. But as far as I know it is a missing feature. And I do not think the kernel is able to get root device as an argument (yet). Another not as good and still missing feature would be to be able to set root device from boot_config(8). > ie: if I do a full install on a USB flash, boot up normal, it panics into > ddb> mode because of root device as wd0 when it should be sd0. If I do boot > -a, it asks for default of sd0 rather than wd0 but expects manual > intervention, such as pressing . Is there a way to bypass this other > than recompile a new, custom kernel? > > TIA. -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
multiple ipsec-nat-t clients behind same ip address
Hi all I'm having some trouble with VPN clients (workstations) connecting to an OBSD 4.2 VPN gateway. All clients sit behind one natting gateway, and are natted to the same egress ip address. They try to connect to another network behind the VPN gateway. The first connect succeeds, and the client gets its connection (i can track this with ipsecctl -s all on the VPN gateway). Traffic uses nat-t (udp 4500) as destination, yet the connection gets source-natted and the source port is changed to some unique value. This works well. But as soon as the second client connects, the first one is disconnected! The second connection is source-natted to the same IP, but uses a different source port. ipsecctl shows that both tuples for flows and sa get replaced by new ones the moment the second client connects. tcpdump on the gateway shows normal ipsec traffic during the first connection until the new one is initiated. After this, no packet for the first connection is sent by the gateway, but all belong to the second one (different SPIs and different source port) . Now i'm a bit unsure. From my understanding, it should be possible to have multiple nat-t clients use the same external ip address. Is there any limitation that i'm not aware of? Do i need to configure something on the gateway? It's set up for roadwarriors. Here's ipsec.conf: ike passive esp tunnel \ from any to a.b.c.d/24 \ srcid vpn.gate.way with a.b.c.d being the network the clients want to connect to and vpn.gate.way the fqdn of the gateway, as it appears in its certificate. Thx for any hint /markus
