Re: I don't get where the load comes from
Le 31 mai 2011 ` 00:15, Paul de Weerd a icrit : On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 11:44:29PM +0200, Joel Carnat wrote: | Hi, | | I am running a personal Mail+Web system on a Core2Duo 2GHz using Speedstep. | It is mostly doing nothing but still has a high load average. Wait, what ? ~1 is 'a high load average' now ? What are that database and webserver doing on your machine 'doing nothing' ? What other processes do you have running ? Note that you don't have to use lots of CPU to get a (really) high load... well, compared to my previous box, running NetBSD/xen, the same services and showing about 0.3-0.6 of load ; I thought a load of 1.21 was quite much. Do you see a lot of interrupts perhaps ? Try `systat -s1 vm` or `vmstat -i`. # vmstat -i interrupt total rate irq0/clock9709553 199 irq0/ipi 1291416 26 irq144/acpi010 irq145/inteldrm090 irq96/uhci0 1170 irq98/ehci0 20 irq97/azalia0 10 irq101/wpi0 10 irq101/bge03666157 irq96/ehci1200 irq101/ahci0 3323496 irq147/pckbc0 60 irq148/pckbc0 380 Total11700128 240 Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd | I've check various stat tools but didn't find the reason for the load. | | Anyone has ideas? | | TIA, | Jo | | PS: here are some of the results I checked. | | # uname -a | OpenBSD bagheera.tumfatig.net 4.9 GENERIC.MP#819 amd64 | | # sysctl hw | hw.machine=amd64 | hw.model=Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7300 @ 2.00GHz | hw.ncpu=2 | hw.byteorder=1234 | hw.pagesize=4096 | hw.disknames=cd0:,sd0:01d3664288919ae7 | hw.diskcount=2 | hw.sensors.cpu0.temp0=45.00 degC | hw.sensors.cpu1.temp0=45.00 degC | hw.sensors.acpitz0.temp0=45.50 degC (zone temperature) | hw.sensors.acpiac0.indicator0=On (power supply) | hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt0=11.10 VDC (voltage) | hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt1=12.71 VDC (current voltage) | hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour0=4.61 Ah (last full capacity) | hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour1=0.52 Ah (warning capacity) | hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour2=0.16 Ah (low capacity) | hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour3=5.20 Ah (remaining capacity), OK | hw.sensors.acpibat0.raw0=0 (battery full), OK | hw.sensors.acpibat0.raw1=1 (rate) | hw.cpuspeed=800 | hw.setperf=0 | hw.vendor=Dell Inc. | hw.product=XPS M1330 | hw.serialno=CK0W33J | hw.uuid=44454c4c-4b00-1030-8057-c3c04f4a | hw.physmem=3747008512 | hw.usermem=3734933504 | hw.ncpufound=2 | | # top -n -o cpu -T | load averages: 1.19, 1.14, 0.99bagheera.tumfatig.net 23:39:09 | 78 processes: 77 idle, 1 on processor | CPU0 states: 1.8% user, 0.0% nice, 0.7% system, 0.1% interrupt, 97.4% | idle | CPU1 states: 2.4% user, 0.0% nice, 0.8% system, 0.0% interrupt, 96.8% | idle | Memory: Real: 238M/656M act/tot Free: 2809M Swap: 0K/8197M used/tot | | PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE WAIT TIMECPU COMMAND | 3230 root 20 2156K 3152K sleep/1 netio 0:00 0.20% sshd | 1867 sshd 20 2148K 2368K sleep/0 select0:00 0.05% sshd | 19650 www 140 5640K 30M sleep/0 semwait 0:59 0.00% httpd | 4225 www 140 5984K 42M sleep/1 semwait 0:58 0.00% httpd | 3624 www 140 5644K 30M sleep/1 semwait 0:53 0.00% httpd | 24875 www 140 5740K 32M sleep/1 semwait 0:52 0.00% httpd | 22848 www 140 5724K 30M sleep/1 semwait 0:50 0.00% httpd | 13508 www 140 5832K 31M sleep/1 semwait 0:48 0.00% httpd | 24210 www 140 5652K 30M sleep/1 semwait 0:48 0.00% httpd | 510 www 140 5660K 30M sleep/1 semwait 0:46 0.00% httpd | 20258 www20 5536K 32M sleep/0 select0:46 0.00% httpd | 6543 www 140 5772K 32M sleep/0 semwait 0:43 0.00% httpd | 9783 _mysql 20 55M 30M sleep/1 poll 0:20 0.00% mysqld | 19071 root 20 640K 1416K sleep/1 select0:09 0.00% sshd | 10389 root 20 3376K 2824K sleep/0 poll 0:07 0.00% monit | 21695 _sogo 20 7288K 18M sleep/1 poll 0:05 0.00% sogod | 1888 named 20 20M 21M sleep/1 select0:05 0.00% named | 18781 _sogo 20 15M 29M sleep/1 poll 0:04 0.00% sogod | | # iostat -c 10 -w 1 | ttycd0 sd0 cpu | tin tout KB/t t/s MB/s KB/t t/s MB/s us ni sy in id |07 0.00 0 0.00 20.64 7 0.14 2 0 1 0 97 |0 174 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 0100 |0 57 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 2 0 97 |0 57 0.00 0 0.00 32.00 17 0.53
Re: I don't get where the load comes from
Joel Carnat wrote well, compared to my previous box, running NetBSD/xen, the same services and showing about 0.3-0.6 of load ; I thought a load of 1.21 was quite much. Different systems will agree on the spelling of the word load. That is about as much agreement as you can expect. Does the 0.3-0.6 really mean 30-60 percent loaded? 1.21 tasks seems kinda low for a multi-tasking system.
Re: I don't get where the load comes from
Le 31 mai 2011 ` 02:19, Gonzalo L. R. a icrit : Take a look of this http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=articlesid=20090715034920 I found this article before posting. But one thing that didn't convinced me is that, if I shutdown apmd and configure hw.setperf=100, the load drops down to 0.30-0.20. I don't get how A high load is just that: high. It means you have a lot of processes that sometimes run. can show load variation depending on CPU speed only. El 05/30/11 18:44, Joel Carnat escribis: Hi, I am running a personal Mail+Web system on a Core2Duo 2GHz using Speedstep. It is mostly doing nothing but still has a high load average. I've check various stat tools but didn't find the reason for the load. Anyone has ideas? TIA, Jo PS: here are some of the results I checked. # uname -a OpenBSD bagheera.tumfatig.net 4.9 GENERIC.MP#819 amd64 # sysctl hw hw.machine=amd64 hw.model=Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7300 @ 2.00GHz hw.ncpu=2 hw.byteorder=1234 hw.pagesize=4096 hw.disknames=cd0:,sd0:01d3664288919ae7 hw.diskcount=2 hw.sensors.cpu0.temp0=45.00 degC hw.sensors.cpu1.temp0=45.00 degC hw.sensors.acpitz0.temp0=45.50 degC (zone temperature) hw.sensors.acpiac0.indicator0=On (power supply) hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt0=11.10 VDC (voltage) hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt1=12.71 VDC (current voltage) hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour0=4.61 Ah (last full capacity) hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour1=0.52 Ah (warning capacity) hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour2=0.16 Ah (low capacity) hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour3=5.20 Ah (remaining capacity), OK hw.sensors.acpibat0.raw0=0 (battery full), OK hw.sensors.acpibat0.raw1=1 (rate) hw.cpuspeed=800 hw.setperf=0 hw.vendor=Dell Inc. hw.product=XPS M1330 hw.serialno=CK0W33J hw.uuid=44454c4c-4b00-1030-8057-c3c04f4a hw.physmem=3747008512 hw.usermem=3734933504 hw.ncpufound=2 # top -n -o cpu -T load averages: 1.19, 1.14, 0.99bagheera.tumfatig.net 23:39:09 78 processes: 77 idle, 1 on processor CPU0 states: 1.8% user, 0.0% nice, 0.7% system, 0.1% interrupt, 97.4% idle CPU1 states: 2.4% user, 0.0% nice, 0.8% system, 0.0% interrupt, 96.8% idle Memory: Real: 238M/656M act/tot Free: 2809M Swap: 0K/8197M used/tot PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE WAIT TIMECPU COMMAND 3230 root 20 2156K 3152K sleep/1 netio 0:00 0.20% sshd 1867 sshd 20 2148K 2368K sleep/0 select0:00 0.05% sshd 19650 www 140 5640K 30M sleep/0 semwait 0:59 0.00% httpd 4225 www 140 5984K 42M sleep/1 semwait 0:58 0.00% httpd 3624 www 140 5644K 30M sleep/1 semwait 0:53 0.00% httpd 24875 www 140 5740K 32M sleep/1 semwait 0:52 0.00% httpd 22848 www 140 5724K 30M sleep/1 semwait 0:50 0.00% httpd 13508 www 140 5832K 31M sleep/1 semwait 0:48 0.00% httpd 24210 www 140 5652K 30M sleep/1 semwait 0:48 0.00% httpd 510 www 140 5660K 30M sleep/1 semwait 0:46 0.00% httpd 20258 www20 5536K 32M sleep/0 select0:46 0.00% httpd 6543 www 140 5772K 32M sleep/0 semwait 0:43 0.00% httpd 9783 _mysql 20 55M 30M sleep/1 poll 0:20 0.00% mysqld 19071 root 20 640K 1416K sleep/1 select0:09 0.00% sshd 10389 root 20 3376K 2824K sleep/0 poll 0:07 0.00% monit 21695 _sogo 20 7288K 18M sleep/1 poll 0:05 0.00% sogod 1888 named 20 20M 21M sleep/1 select0:05 0.00% named 18781 _sogo 20 15M 29M sleep/1 poll 0:04 0.00% sogod # iostat -c 10 -w 1 ttycd0 sd0 cpu tin tout KB/t t/s MB/s KB/t t/s MB/s us ni sy in id 07 0.00 0 0.00 20.64 7 0.14 2 0 1 0 97 0 174 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 0100 0 57 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 2 0 97 0 57 0.00 0 0.00 32.00 17 0.53 1 0 1 0 98 0 58 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 7 0 7 0 86 0 57 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 1 0 98 0 57 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 1 0 98 0 57 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 2 0 0 0 98 0 57 0.00 0 0.00 4.00 1 0.00 0 0 1 0 99 0 58 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 0 1 98 # vmstat -c 10 -w 1 procsmemory pagediskstraps cpu r b wavm fre flt re pi po fr sr cd0 sd0 int sys cs us sy id 1 1 0 243420 2866736 655 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 15 1828 77 2 1 97 0 1 0 243636 2866336 234 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 540 47 0 1 99 0 1 0 243668 2866304 95 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 17 329 44 1 0 99 0 1 0 242848 2867552 644 0 0 0 0 0 0 08 1445 115 1 1 98 0 1 0 243612 2866352 1076 0 0 0 0 0 0 09 2436 44 0 2 98 0 1 0 243668 2866288 117 0 0 0 0 0 0
Re: I don't get where the load comes from
Joel Carnat wrote: But one thing that didn't convinced me is that, if I shutdown apmd and configure hw.setperf=100, the load drops down to 0.30-0.20. I don't get how A high load is just that: high. It means you have a lot of processes that sometimes run. can show load variation depending on CPU speed only. Actually that should convince you that the numbers do not mean much. You are measuring the difference between just barely being counted and just barely not being counted.
Re: I don't get where the load comes from
Le 31 mai 2011 ` 08:10, Tony Abernethy a icrit : Joel Carnat wrote well, compared to my previous box, running NetBSD/xen, the same services and showing about 0.3-0.6 of load ; I thought a load of 1.21 was quite much. Different systems will agree on the spelling of the word load. That is about as much agreement as you can expect. Does the 0.3-0.6 really mean 30-60 percent loaded? As far as I understood the counters on my previous nbsd box, 0.3 meant that the cpu was used at 30% of it's total capacity. Then, looking at the sys/user counters, I'd see what kind of things the system was doing. 1.21 tasks seems kinda low for a multi-tasking system. ok :)
Re: I don't get where the load comes from
Hi all, load is not realy a cpu usage %. In facts it is sum of many % (cpu real load, memory, buffers, etc...) that explain why load can up over 5.0 for each cpu without any crash or freeze of the host. we should consider load as a host ressources %... this is not real of course but this is more real, than considering it as only cpu use. For example, in facts, all my machines run permanently about 1.1 or 1.2 and sometimes for a short time (few minutes) goes up to 2.5 to 3.0 of load. so I don't worry, before 5.0, we should not worry about that. regards From: Joel Carnat j...@carnat.net Sent: Tue May 31 09:10:59 CEST 2011 To: Tony Abernethy t...@servasoftware.com Subject: Re: I don't get where the load comes from Le 31 mai 2011 ` 08:10, Tony Abernethy a icrit : Joel Carnat wrote well, compared to my previous box, running NetBSD/xen, the same services and showing about 0.3-0.6 of load ; I thought a load of 1.21 was quite much. Different systems will agree on the spelling of the word load. That is about as much agreement as you can expect. Does the 0.3-0.6 really mean 30-60 percent loaded? As far as I understood the counters on my previous nbsd box, 0.3 meant that the cpu was used at 30% of it's total capacity. Then, looking at the sys/user counters, I'd see what kind of things the system was doing. 1.21 tasks seems kinda low for a multi-tasking system. ok :) Cordialement Francois Pussault 3701 - 8 rue Marcel Pagnol 31100 ToulouseB FranceB +33 6 17 230 820 B +33 5 34 365 269 fpussa...@contactoffice.fr
Re: I don't get where the load comes from
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Francois Pussault fpussa...@contactoffice.fr wrote: load is not realy a cpu usage %. In facts it is sum of many % (cpu real load, memory, buffers, etc...) that explain why load can up over 5.0 for each cpu without any crash or freeze of the host. we should consider load as a host ressources %... this is not real of course but this is more real, than considering it as only cpu use. The load average numbers give the number of jobs in the run queue averaged over 1, 5, and 15 minutes from top(1).
How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
Hello! I can't find it in the man page, and it seems it is not supported (?) I am trying to backup some folders and want to exclude some and nth will work. I've tried: --exclude=/folder/ --exclude=/folder/ --exclude /folder --exclude folder I will get an error: --exclude... directory doesn't exist. Excluding will work in Linux. Thanx! Mike
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:42:24 +0300, Michael Sioutis wrote: Hello! I can't find it in the man page, and it seems it is not supported (?) I am trying to backup some folders and want to exclude some and nth will work. I've tried: --exclude=/folder/ --exclude=/folder/ --exclude /folder --exclude folder I will get an error: --exclude... directory doesn't exist. Excluding will work in Linux. That is a GNU extension. You can work this around with find(1) and the tar(1)'s '-I' option. Daniel -- LIVAI Daniel PGP key ID = 0x83B63A8F Key fingerprint = DBEC C66B A47A DFA2 792D 650C C69B BE4C 83B6 3A8F
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
Hi Mike Try something like this: tar -cvf backup.tar $(ls / | grep -v -e 'tmp' -e 'boot') On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Michael Sioutis papito@gmail.com wrote: Hello! I can't find it in the man page, and it seems it is not supported (?) I am trying to backup some folders and want to exclude some and nth will work. I've tried: --exclude=/folder/ --exclude=/folder/ --exclude /folder --exclude folder I will get an error: --exclude... directory doesn't exist. Excluding will work in Linux. Thanx! Mike -- Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict I've taken my software vows - for beta or for worse
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 10:53:58 +0200, LEVAI Daniel l...@ecentrum.hu wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:42:24 +0300, Michael Sioutis wrote: Hello! I can't find it in the man page, and it seems it is not supported (?) I am trying to backup some folders and want to exclude some and nth will work. I've tried: --exclude=/folder/ --exclude=/folder/ --exclude /folder --exclude folder I will get an error: --exclude... directory doesn't exist. Excluding will work in Linux. That is a GNU extension. You can work this around with find(1) and the tar(1)'s '-I' option. bsdtar from the FreeBSD project supports --exclude too. The OP could as well install gnu tar from packages. bsdtar doens't seem to exist... At least that's what I do at work (Debian, Solaris, OpenBSD env). It's a pain to walk around every nifty details of different unixes... Cheers, Marian
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
Le 31/05/2011 11:23, Marian Hettwer a C)crit : On Tue, 31 May 2011 10:53:58 +0200, LEVAI Daniell...@ecentrum.hu wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:42:24 +0300, Michael Sioutis wrote: Hello! I can't find it in the man page, and it seems it is not supported (?) I am trying to backup some folders and want to exclude some and nth will work. I've tried: --exclude=/folder/ --exclude=/folder/ --exclude /folder --exclude folder I will get an error: --exclude... directory doesn't exist. Excluding will work in Linux. That is a GNU extension. You can work this around with find(1) and the tar(1)'s '-I' option. Also tar cf /foo.tar /bar/!(folder|other_folder) using plain ksh bsdtar from the FreeBSD project supports --exclude too. The OP could as well install gnu tar from packages. bsdtar doens't seem to exist... At least that's what I do at work (Debian, Solaris, OpenBSD env). It's a pain to walk around every nifty details of different unixes... I'm wondering where does that logic stop... do you also install GNU ls to get colors?
Re: I don't get where the load comes from
On May 31, 2011, at 12:33 AM, Abel Abraham Camarillo Ojeda wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Francois Pussault fpussa...@contactoffice.fr wrote: load is not realy a cpu usage %. In facts it is sum of many % (cpu real load, memory, buffers, etc...) that explain why load can up over 5.0 for each cpu without any crash or freeze of the host. we should consider load as a host ressources %... this is not real of course but this is more real, than considering it as only cpu use. The load average numbers give the number of jobs in the run queue averaged over 1, 5, and 15 minutes from top(1). As was mentioned earlier, no two systems agree on what load average is. Making statements about it for a particular system should be based on the code for that system. Some systems count processes runnable if only the NFS back-end-storage were available to page in the file. Other systems say it's in a wait state. The former can easily lead to load averages in the 100s (or more) with a a CPU idling at 99% (because everything's waiting on NFS). Some systems don't even agree on what it means to average. Load Averages generally suck as a metric for system business. Look at interrupts and CPU time -- they're what matter. If you want to break out CPU beyond system, user and idle, you can do that, too. Sean
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
Marian Hettwer m...@kernel32.de wrote: bsdtar from the FreeBSD project supports --exclude too. The OP could as well install gnu tar from packages. bsdtar doens't seem to exist... bsdtar is available as part of the archivers/libarchive port. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
vmmap: bad software everywhere
People not following development too closely may not be aware of it, but we've had a lot of fun with amd64 recently. Specifically, Ariane committed a new vmmap implementation that tends to actually use the 64 bits address space, in userland. She even has some more nasty diff that does its best to put allocations far apart in that address space. Not surprisingly, a lot of software that claims to be 64 bits-ready isn't. This touches all web navigators, most jit engines, and probably lots more of software (our ports tree version of gnu-grep, for instance). How comes nobody in other OSes noticed ? Well, people probably did, and tweaked their allocators to work, by using preferably the low address space, and having addresses that increase slowly, so that a lot of pointers are below 4GB, and a lot of pointer diffs are under 4GB. This is yet another example of the patheticness that is modern software development. Instead of going headfront and fixing the actual problems, most systems cope out and just sweep the problem under the carpet, hoping no-one will notice. So, a lot of developers are hard at work figuring the problems, getting the word upstream. In case you're wondering about the stakes, well: 1/ this software will break elsewhere eventually. It's just a question of processing enough data to break thru the 32 bits barrier consistenly. 2/ 64 bits is good for security. When you use the full address range and randomness, exploiting heap buffer overflows becomes much harder. Disclaimer: opinion and message my own, Theo, Ariane, Naddy, Robert will probably chime in, and correct stupid things I've said.
Re: I don't get where the load comes from
So it is why I mentioned it is not real but a user-land approach of it can be understood. From: Sean Kamath kam...@geekoids.com Sent: Tue May 31 11:07:46 CEST 2011 To: Misc OpenBSD misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: I don't get where the load comes from On May 31, 2011, at 12:33 AM, Abel Abraham Camarillo Ojeda wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Francois Pussault fpussa...@contactoffice.fr wrote: load is not realy a cpu usage %. In facts it is sum of many % (cpu real load, memory, buffers, etc...) that explain why load can up over 5.0 for each cpu without any crash or freeze of the host. we should consider load as a host ressources %... this is not real of course but this is more real, than considering it as only cpu use. The load average numbers give the number of jobs in the run queue averaged over 1, 5, and 15 minutes from top(1). As was mentioned earlier, no two systems agree on what load average is. Making statements about it for a particular system should be based on the code for that system. Some systems count processes runnable if only the NFS back-end-storage were available to page in the file. Other systems say it's in a wait state. The former can easily lead to load averages in the 100s (or more) with a a CPU idling at 99% (because everything's waiting on NFS). Some systems don't even agree on what it means to average. Load Averages generally suck as a metric for system business. Look at interrupts and CPU time -- they're what matter. If you want to break out CPU beyond system, user and idle, you can do that, too. Sean Cordialement Francois Pussault 3701 - 8 rue Marcel Pagnol 31100 ToulouseB FranceB +33 6 17 230 820 B +33 5 34 365 269 fpussa...@contactoffice.fr
Tutorial - Fugir aos impostos com programa certificado pela DGCI
1 O Homem do Oleado - TUTORIAL | Fugir aos impostos com programa certificado pela DGCI Sabia que todos os dias sco adulteradas milhares de facturas usando programas informaticos. Conhega os certificadores de facturas falsas, os verdadeiros motores da economia paralela. Os quatro tipos de empresas criminosas que temos em Portugal: Os Insignificantes, Os Teimosos, Os Mafiosos e Os Donos do Pams. Restauragco e prestadores de servigos que nco passam factura sco apenas a PONTA DO ICEBERG Leia tudo em... http://homemdooleado.blogspot.com PS: O acento grave i uma homenagem ao acordo ortografico. Facebook [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 1.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/png which had a name of 2.png] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 3.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 4.jpg]
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 11:39:41 +0200, Jeremie Courreges-Anglas ktulu+m...@wxcvbn.org wrote: Le 31/05/2011 11:23, Marian Hettwer a C)crit : That is a GNU extension. You can work this around with find(1) and the tar(1)'s '-I' option. Also tar cf /foo.tar /bar/!(folder|other_folder) using plain ksh that looks nice. bsdtar from the FreeBSD project supports --exclude too. The OP could as well install gnu tar from packages. bsdtar doens't seem to exist... At least that's what I do at work (Debian, Solaris, OpenBSD env). It's a pain to walk around every nifty details of different unixes... I'm wondering where does that logic stop... do you also install GNU ls to get colors? Obviously not. I'm talking about shell scripts which should work in a multi unix environment. Namely, in my env, Debian, Solaris and OpenBSD. I tend to install gnu sed and gnu grep and gnu diff on all 3 named systems. I actually see nothing bad about it. Not at all. Cheers, Marian
Fw: Nova cotacao...
Segue em anexo conforme solicitado o relatorio e as cotagues de pregos e produtos listados a seguir. Tenha um bom dia! Arquivo: anexo-documento.doc (155,1 KB) Agredecemos a sua preferencia.
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On 2011-05-31, Marian Hettwer m...@kernel32.de wrote: On Tue, 31 May 2011 10:53:58 +0200, LEVAI Daniel l...@ecentrum.hu wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:42:24 +0300, Michael Sioutis wrote: Hello! I can't find it in the man page, and it seems it is not supported (?) I am trying to backup some folders and want to exclude some and nth will work. I've tried: --exclude=/folder/ --exclude=/folder/ --exclude /folder --exclude folder I will get an error: --exclude... directory doesn't exist. Excluding will work in Linux. That is a GNU extension. You can work this around with find(1) and the tar(1)'s '-I' option. bsdtar from the FreeBSD project supports --exclude too. The OP could as well install gnu tar from packages. bsdtar doens't seem to exist... At least that's what I do at work (Debian, Solaris, OpenBSD env). It's a pain to walk around every nifty details of different unixes... The other way you can do it is just use posix-specified options and not rely on vendor-specific extensions. But unfortunately many of the vendors (*cough*gnu*cough*) don't make it clear which options are standard and which are extensions... And, sadly, even some of the BSD-derived OS have replaced a bunch of their standard tools with GNU.
Re: I don't get where the load comes from
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Francois Pussault fpussa...@contactoffice.fr wrote: Hi all, load is not realy a cpu usage %. In facts it is sum of many % (cpu real load, memory, buffers, etc...) No, it isn't. we should consider load as a host ressources %... No, we shouldn't. The load average is a decaying average of the number of processes in the runnable state or currently running on a cpu or in the process of being forked or that have spent less than a second in a sleep state with sleep priority lower than PZERO, which includes waiting for memory resources, disk I/O, filesystem locks and a bunch of other things. You could say it's a very vague estimate of how much work the cpu might need to be doing soon, maybe. Or it could be completely wrong because of sampling bias. It's not very important so it's not really critical for the system to do a good job guessing this number, so the system doesn't really try too hard. This number may tell you something useful, or it might be totally misleading. Or both. //art //art
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 12:39:15 + (UTC), Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.org wrote: On 2011-05-31, Marian Hettwer m...@kernel32.de wrote: bsdtar from the FreeBSD project supports --exclude too. The OP could as well install gnu tar from packages. bsdtar doens't seem to exist... At least that's what I do at work (Debian, Solaris, OpenBSD env). It's a pain to walk around every nifty details of different unixes... The other way you can do it is just use posix-specified options and not rely on vendor-specific extensions. But unfortunately many of the vendors (*cough*gnu*cough*) don't make it clear which options are standard and which are extensions... And, sadly, even some of the BSD-derived OS have replaced a bunch of their standard tools with GNU. You are right. One should rely on posix standards. However, reality most often proved that there will be GNU-ism all over the place. Time for a clean up task? Maybe. Going the easier road of just installing some gnu tools, why not? Talking about BSD specifics. I really like the possibility on my FreeBSD box with bsdtar to not specify -z or -j depending on the archived tar file. Instead, bsdtar just guesses for me what it'll be. tar -xvf foo.tar.gz or tar -xvf foo.tar.bz2 is all the same to me. However, I really try hard not to get the hang of it. This would never work with any other tar I encountered... And obviously I wouldn't to this in a shellscript ;) Cheers, Marian
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
Marian Hettwer m...@kernel32.de wrote: You are right. One should rely on posix standards. Well, the POSIX archiver utility is pax(1). The combination of find(1) and pax(1) also lends itself to excluding directories. Talking about BSD specifics. I really like the possibility on my FreeBSD box with bsdtar to not specify -z or -j depending on the archived tar file. [...] This would never work with any other tar I encountered... GNU tar has had this for some time, too. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/working-towards-bug-free-secure-software/5560?tag=nl.e036
OT Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Jeremie Courreges-Anglas wrote: SNIP Le 31/05/2011 11:23, Marian Hettwer a C)crit : bsdtar from the FreeBSD project supports --exclude too. The OP could as well install gnu tar from packages. bsdtar doens't seem to exist... At least that's what I do at work (Debian, Solaris, OpenBSD env). It's a pain to walk around every nifty details of different unixes... I'm wondering where does that logic stop... do you also install GNU ls to get colors? Yep, why not? I admin many systems where I work, the majority Linux because particular projects require Linux because of peculiar hardware. I work for the customer, they do not work for me. The fact I manage to get some OpenBSD systems in production use is a plus to me. diana Past hissy-fits are not a predictor of future hissy-fits. Nick Holland(06 Dec 2005)
Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:23:16AM +0200, Marian Hettwer wrote: On Tue, 31 May 2011 10:53:58 +0200, LEVAI Daniel l...@ecentrum.hu wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:42:24 +0300, Michael Sioutis wrote: Hello! I can't find it in the man page, and it seems it is not supported (?) I am trying to backup some folders and want to exclude some and nth will work. I've tried: --exclude=/folder/ --exclude=/folder/ --exclude /folder --exclude folder I will get an error: --exclude... directory doesn't exist. Excluding will work in Linux. That is a GNU extension. You can work this around with find(1) and the tar(1)'s '-I' option. bsdtar from the FreeBSD project supports --exclude too. The OP could as well install gnu tar from packages. bsdtar doens't seem to exist... At least that's what I do at work (Debian, Solaris, OpenBSD env). It's a pain to walk around every nifty details of different unixes... Cheers, Marian $ pax -vw -f t.tar -x ustar -s /skip.this// . Should be portable... -Otto
Asking whether or not to start X.org at boot time
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I have changed /etc/rc to ask me at boot time whether I want to
start xdm, gdm, or a console. (Adding kdm presumably wouldn't be
too hard.) This is because OpenBSD/powerpc apparently does not
support multiple wsdisplays, hence it is not possible to run X.org
and a console at the same time. However, I do not always want
X.org. Often, I'd much rather have a console. Unfortunately, X.org
doesn't work quite right if started from the console; the keyboard
is all screwed up. This script allows me to pick at boot time
whether I want to run X.org or a console.
Entering x or xdm will start xdm. Entering g or gdm will start gdm.
Anything else will start a console.
I do not believe my script is quite right. If I start gdm or a
console, there's an error at shutdown about rc being exited
abnormally. Also, the login console will ask what terminal type
after login. Entering vt220 works. Nevertheless, I hope someone
else will find this useful.
Here are the original lines:
# Alternatively, on some architectures, xdm may be started in
/etc/ttys.
if [ X${xdm_flags} != XNO -a -x /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm ]; then
echo 'starting xdm...'; /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm
${xdm_flags}
fi
Here are my new lines:
# Alternatively, on some architectures, xdm may be started in
/etc/ttys.
if [ X${xdm_flags} != XNO -a -x /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm ]; then
echo -n Do you wish to run (x)dm, (g)dm, or a (c)onsole?\n
read GRAPHICAL
if [ $GRAPHICAL = x ] || [ $GRAPHICAL = xdm ] ; then
echo 'starting xdm...'; /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm
${xdm_flags}
else
if [ $GRAPHICAL = g ] || [ $GRAPHICAL = gdm ] ;
then
echo 'starting gdm...';
/usr/local/sbin/gdm -nodaemon
else
/usr/libexec/getty std.9600
fi
fi
fi
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Charset: UTF8
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 3.0
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Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
Op 31-5-2011 17:51, Kevin Chadwick schreef: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/working-towards-bug-free-secure-software/5560?tag=nl.e036 Actually they go full steps further. They have produced a formally verified OS kernel, was in the news august 13, 2009: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/13/0827231/Worlds-First-Formally-Proven-OS-Kernel Erik
Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 05:36:17PM +0200, Erik wrote: | Op 31-5-2011 17:51, Kevin Chadwick schreef: | http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/working-towards-bug-free-secure-software/5560?tag=nl.e036 | | Actually they go full steps further. They have produced a formally | verified OS kernel, was in the news august 13, 2009: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/13/0827231/Worlds-First-Formally-Proven-OS-Kernel Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 06:02:39PM +0200, Paul de Weerd wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 05:36:17PM +0200, Erik wrote: | Op 31-5-2011 17:51, Kevin Chadwick schreef: | http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/working-towards-bug-free-secure-software/5560?tag=nl.e036 | | Actually they go full steps further. They have produced a formally | verified OS kernel, was in the news august 13, 2009: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/13/0827231/Worlds-First-Formally-Proven-OS-Kernel Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. Besides that, they use formal proof tools, which are probably much more complex than the code thay are trying to verify and thus have bugs of their own. While formal proofs have their utility (by some accident I studied with Peter van Emde Boas. The above famous quote comes from a letter by Don Knuth to Peter) I don't think formal proofs have a lot of significance when trying to verify a whole OS. -Otto
Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
Besides that, they use formal proof tools, which are probably much more complex than the code thay are trying to verify and thus have bugs of their own. While formal proofs have their utility (by some accident I studied with Peter van Emde Boas. The above famous quote comes from a letter by Don Knuth to Peter) I don't think formal proofs have a lot of significance when trying to verify a whole OS. +1. Academics who produce tools which really help in the trenches and remain free to use are rare and to be treasured. It takes lots of time for those kind of formal verification systems and they are for the most part used to beef up the resume. For daily use something like LLVM warnings/errors is much more approachable, and the OpenBSD way of using such stuff daily, and sweeping the codebase for similar bugs. http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/c-at-google-here-be-dragons.html and how LLVM is designed http://www.aosabook.org/en/llvm.html
Relayd.conf -- Default closing of connection
Hello, In the default relayd.conf, we have, in the httpssl protocol, the directive `header change Connection to close`. What about relayd makes this desirable (why close connections when we can reuse them or let them time out?), and what are the consequences of NOT having this directive? -- Thanks, Andrew Klettke Systems Admin Optic Fusion NOC 253-830-2943
Congreso Día de la Secretaria Cancún - Xcaret 2011
Globalkind | Meeting Plans Expos Congresos Convenciones Dma de la Secretaria Canczn - Xcaret 2011 Canczn - Xcaret 2011 Congreso Dma de la Seretaria y Asistente Del 28 al 31 de Julio [IMAGE] Bienvenidos a la mayor conmemoracisn del Dma de La Secretaria Ejecutiva y Asistente Canczn - Xcaret 2011. Un evento de Capacitacisn, analisis, fomento y desarrollo de habilidades, en lo que hoy destacan las labores del perfil avanzado para uno de los cargos empresariales mas demandantes en Mixico y el mundo. [IMAGE] Un evento dirigido a Secretarias ejecutivas, asistentes administrativas, Jefes de oficina, encargadas de reclutamiento, responsables del recurso humano secretarial, recepcionistas y personal involucrado en todo tipo de asistencia laboral. Descargue un folleto con el programa completo del evento. [IMAGE] [IMAGE] Participe en esta gran celebracisn Inscribase Hoy Para mayores informes vismtenos en www.globalkind.net o bien responda este correo con sus datos completos y un representante de Globalkind se pondra en contacto con usted. Globalkind Productions Comunmquese del interior de la Repzblica al 01(33) 3620-3244 w w w . g l o b a l k i n d . n e t / e-mail: i...@globalkind.net Esta obra esta bajo una licencia Creative Commons Atribucisn-SinDerivadas 2.5 Mixico. All content is copyright their rightful owner. Republication of Globalkind content should be properly credited (and linked to) as the source, including our URL: globalkind.net Consult other content owners directly about republication of their content.
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
Marc Espie es...@nerim.net wrote: Not surprisingly, a lot of software that claims to be 64 bits-ready isn't. This touches all web navigators, most jit engines, and probably lots more of software (our ports tree version of gnu-grep, for instance). I don't think a lot suffers from it, but some prominent cases do. Three problems have been mentioned: (1) Truncation of pointers to 32 bits. Our malloc(3) has returned addresses 4 GB for some time now on amd64 (and before that on other archs like alpha), so I don't expect any new fallout there. I seem to remember that we had a rash of ports fixes back when this first happened on amd64. (2) Tagged pointers. A tagged pointer is when you know that not all the bits in a pointer are used to generate an address and you squeeze some other data into the spare bits. This blocks newer versions of Firefox on sparc64. Mozilla's new JavaScript engine uses tagged pointers and those unused address bits on x86 are actually used on sparc64. (3) The expectation that, no matter what their absolute address, the relative offsets between all your pieces of data fit into 32 bits, i.e., all data is within a 4 GB window. That sounds like a bizarre requirement, but apparently some JIT engines are optimized to rely on this. These are the cases that break with new vmmap. But, hey, 64-bit desktop machines have only been around since 1993 or so, and I guess some of the Mozilla programmers weren't born yet when we watched oh-so-clever tagged pointer use blow up at, say, the Motorola 68000 to 68020 transition some 25 years ago. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Relayd server response header all browsers tried behave strange except firefox
Hi, all If you use: 'response header change Server to Whatever here' in relayd.conf or even put the option but set it like Apache does to Apache. Firefox works fine however chrome and Opera only load a small amount of the page. All is transmitted by relayd. IE8 says navigation cancelled. The only difference I've spotted so far is that the Server header is placed under date (3rd) by Apache whereas relayd makes it the last header. I think the browsers are buggy, not relayd but there's no chance of fixing all of them soon. IE9 don't run on XP and I want to use css3, but that won't happen either. Anyway it's not a big deal, but anyone using this relayd option should test their servers with multiple browsers or just remove it, or recompile apache, if they can really be bothered. This was on 4.9 release, 1 vmware and 1 proper system tested. Identical config let me know if you don't have this problem, maybe it's caused by more than one thing? Kc
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 07:23:46PM +, Christian Weisgerber wrote: Marc Espie es...@nerim.net wrote: Not surprisingly, a lot of software that claims to be 64 bits-ready isn't. This touches all web navigators, most jit engines, and probably lots more of software (our ports tree version of gnu-grep, for instance). I don't think a lot suffers from it, but some prominent cases do. Three problems have been mentioned: (1) Truncation of pointers to 32 bits. Our malloc(3) has returned addresses 4 GB for some time now on amd64 (and before that on other archs like alpha), so I don't expect any new fallout there. I seem to remember that we had a rash of ports fixes back when this first happened on amd64. (2) Tagged pointers. A tagged pointer is when you know that not all the bits in a pointer are used to generate an address and you squeeze some other data into the spare bits. This blocks newer versions of Firefox on sparc64. Mozilla's new JavaScript engine uses tagged pointers and those unused address bits on x86 are actually used on sparc64. (3) The expectation that, no matter what their absolute address, the relative offsets between all your pieces of data fit into 32 bits, i.e., all data is within a 4 GB window. That sounds like a bizarre requirement, but apparently some JIT engines are optimized to rely on this. These are the cases that break with new vmmap. The smart programmers solve number (3) by allocating 2G of memory in advance to store their jit compiled code, so their code can use 32 bit relative offsets. They say, hey, it's only virtual memory, so it doesn't take much resources. Often that is true and it seems a smart idea, but it has the consequence that you lose randomization and protected memory with page size granularity. Or you are forced to do all the memory mangement on your own, basically rewriting the memory management part of the OS in your browser. Suddenly the smart idea does not sound so smart anymore. -Otto But, hey, 64-bit desktop machines have only been around since 1993 or so, and I guess some of the Mozilla programmers weren't born yet when we watched oh-so-clever tagged pointer use blow up at, say, the Motorola 68000 to 68020 transition some 25 years ago. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
On Tue, 31 May 2011 21:51:40 +0200 Otto Moerbeek wrote: basically rewriting the memory management part of the OS in your browser. Do some browsers do this on OpenBSD?
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 08:58:29PM +, Kevin Chadwick wrote: On Tue, 31 May 2011 21:51:40 +0200 Otto Moerbeek wrote: basically rewriting the memory management part of the OS in your browser. Do some browsers do this on OpenBSD? webkit tries to do this. -Otto
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
basically rewriting the memory management part of the OS in your browser. Do some browsers do this on OpenBSD? Of course they do, otherwise they wouldn't run at all. google for MAP_32BIT. Once you've read enough to get sick to your stomach, please realize that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
basically rewriting the memory management part of the OS in your browser. Do some browsers do this on OpenBSD? Of course they do, otherwise they wouldn't run at all. google for MAP_32BIT. Once you've read enough to get sick to your stomach, please realize that this is just the tip of the iceberg. I am guessing there's nothing special about OpenBSD, they would probably be doing it everywhere. Then they lie about being truly 64 bit. The recent trend of forking another process for a tab instead of a monolithic single process for the whole browser is a way of extending the time required to clean up this mess? Or there is no relation between them? Wow... didn't know this.
OT:Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 13:43 +0200, Marian Hettwer m...@kernel32.de wrote: On Tue, 31 May 2011 11:39:41 +0200, Jeremie Courreges-Anglas ktulu+m...@wxcvbn.org wrote: Le 31/05/2011 11:23, Marian Hettwer a C)crit : That is a GNU extension. You can work this around with find(1) and the tar(1)'s '-I' option. Also tar cf /foo.tar /bar/!(folder|other_folder) using plain ksh that looks nice. bsdtar from the FreeBSD project supports --exclude too. The OP could as well install gnu tar from packages. bsdtar doens't seem to exist... At least that's what I do at work (Debian, Solaris, OpenBSD env). It's a pain to walk around every nifty details of different unixes... I'm wondering where does that logic stop... do you also install GNU ls to get colors? Obviously not. I'm talking about shell scripts which should work in a multi unix environment. Namely, in my env, Debian, Solaris and OpenBSD. I tend to install gnu sed and gnu grep and gnu diff on all 3 named systems. I actually see nothing bad about it. Not at all. And what do you do when you are not in charge of the box you need your script to run on? It is not uncommon to work in an environment with many thousands of boxes most of which you have no control over. You cannot depend on gnu or any other tools being installed on them. Better to have your script detect which OS it's running on and take appropriate action. You are establishing a very bad habit...
Re: OT:Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Eric Furman ericfur...@fastmail.net wrote: Better to have your script detect which OS it's running on and take appropriate action. Sure, that's why autoconf is state of art.
Re: OT:Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 05:05:55PM -0400, Eric Furman wrote: And what do you do when you are not in charge of the box you need your script to run on? You write a script that uses a statically compiled binary, the one you need. There is a tool to create a .sh script that will contain the binary and your script. If I remember correctly, that's how Star Office installed itself : the .sh extracted what was required and runned. The tool to create such .sh scripts that contains binaries can then be used. Your script will extract locally the binary (make sure where it is somewhere it can run) and then run, using the statically compiled binary. Not pretty but the binary can be updated with the script and your script will be a little fat in size :-) -- Gilbert Fernandes
Battery monitoring does not work properly
Hello, I have seen the battery monitoring working properly after starting apmd however it just disappeared and I'm not able to make it work again, it results in Battery state: absent, 0% remaining, unknown life estimate Any idea how to make it properly work ? Thanks. OpenBSD 4.9 (GENERIC.MP) #794: Wed Mar 2 07:19:02 MST 2011 dera...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP cpu0: Genuine Intel(R) CPU T1400 @ 1.73GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.17 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM real mem = 3184750592 (3037MB) avail mem = 3122503680 (2977MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 05/22/09, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xf0010, SMBIOS rev. 2.5 @ 0xfce70 (31 entries) bios0: vendor American Megatrends Inc. version 1.03 date 05/22/2009 bios0: ASRock Golden Series acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP APIC MCFG ECDT DBGP BOOT OEMB HPET GSCI ATKG SSDT acpi0: wakeup devices USB0(S3) USB1(S3) USB2(S3) USB5(S3) EUSB(S3) USB3(S3) USB4(S3) USB6(S3) USBE(S3) HDAC(S3) P0P1(S4) GLAN(S4) P0P2(S3) WLAN(S3) P0P3(S3) P0P4(S3) P0P5(S3) P0P8(S4) P0P9(S3) SLPB(S4) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: apic clock running at 166MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu1: Genuine Intel(R) CPU T1400 @ 1.73GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.17 GHz cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 2 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xe000, bus 0-255 acpiec0 at acpi0 acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (P0P1) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (P0P2) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 3 (P0P3) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus 5 (P0P4) acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus 6 (P0P5) acpicpu0 at acpi0: C2, C1 acpicpu1 at acpi0: C2, C1 acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature 112 degC acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit in unknown state acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT0 not present acpibtn0 at acpi0: SLPB acpibtn1 at acpi0: LID_ acpivideo0 at acpi0: VGA_ acpivout0 at acpivideo0: DVID acpivout1 at acpivideo0: CRTD acpivout2 at acpivideo0: LCDD acpivout3 at acpivideo0: HDMI bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0x1! pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel GM45 Host rev 0x07 vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel GM45 Video rev 0x07 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation) intagp0 at vga1 agp0 at intagp0: aperture at 0xd000, size 0x1000 inteldrm0 at vga1: apic 2 int 16 (irq 10) drm0 at inteldrm0 Intel GM45 Video rev 0x07 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured uhci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 0 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x03: apic 2 int 16 (irq 10) uhci1 at pci0 dev 26 function 1 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x03: apic 2 int 21 (irq 7) uhci2 at pci0 dev 26 function 2 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x03: apic 2 int 19 (irq 3) ehci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 7 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x03: apic 2 int 18 (irq 6) usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 82801I HD Audio rev 0x03: apic 2 int 22 (irq 4) azalia0: codecs: Realtek ALC662, ATT/Lucent/0x1040, Intel/0x2802, using Realtek ALC662 audio0 at azalia0 ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x03: apic 2 int 16 (irq 10) pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 re0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 Realtek 8168 rev 0x03: RTL8168D/8111D (0x2800), apic 2 int 16 (irq 10), address 00:26:18:47:d2:f0 rgephy0 at re0 phy 7: RTL8169S/8110S PHY, rev. 2 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x03: apic 2 int 17 (irq 5) pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 athn0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 Atheros AR9285 rev 0x01: apic 2 int 17 (irq 5) athn0: AR9285 rev 2 (1T1R), ROM rev 13, address 00:25:d3:0a:c8:a4 ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x03: apic 2 int 18 (irq 6) pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x03: apic 2 int 19 (irq 3) pci4 at ppb3 bus 5 ppb4 at pci0 dev 28 function 4 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x03: apic 2 int 16 (irq 10) pci5 at ppb4 bus 6 ppb5 at pci0 dev 28 function 5 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x03 pci6 at ppb5 bus 7 uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x03: apic 2 int 23 (irq 10) uhci4 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x03: apic 2 int 19 (irq 3) uhci5 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x03: apic 2 int 18 (irq 6) ehci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x03: apic 2 int 23 (irq 10) usb1 at ehci1: USB revision 2.0 uhub1 at usb1 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 ppb6 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 Intel 82801BAM Hub-to-PCI rev 0x93 pci7 at ppb6 bus 8 pcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0
Re: OT:Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 23:33:22 +0200 gilbert.fernan...@orange.fr wrote: (make sure where it is somewhere it can run) if there is such a writable place!
Re: OT:Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:05:18PM +, Kevin Chadwick wrote: if there is such a writable place! Yes. When I tried to make such a script, that contained a static binary, finding such a place was almost a nightmare. In the end, the admin of the foreign server took pity of me and installed locally the binary I required :p -- Gilbert Fernandes
TRESOR - Runs Encryption Securely Outside RAM
Hi, Just idea: http://www1.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/tresor/ Should be interesting for OpenBSD kernel too. Of course if not already there in some form. I.
Re: OT:Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 3:29 PM, gilbert.fernan...@orange.fr wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:05:18PM +, Kevin Chadwick wrote: if there is such a writable place! Yes. When I tried to make such a script, that contained a static binary, finding such a place was almost a nightmare. In the end, the admin of the foreign server took pity of me and installed locally the binary I required :p fucking amateurs. if you ran windows you wouldn't have this problem. --patrick
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 03:28:11PM -0500, Amit Kulkarni wrote: basically rewriting the memory management part of the OS in your browser. Do some browsers do this on OpenBSD? Googles v8 javascript engine has Pages, Spaces, Heaps and Pagination logic. It even has its own code to map files in. However, the managed to avoid the common pitfall of requiring all platforms to have 4 kB pages: they hardcoded to 8 kB instead. They actually managed to create their own VM inside the browser, running on top of our VM and being almost as complex. Chrome are the ones that use 32-bit relative pointers, I doubt I need to explain how that fails on 64-bit... But hey, it's fast. Webkit allocates 2 GB at startup. Within that area, it will do its own memory management for the JIT. They also use 32-bit relative addressing. Firefox uses the unused bits in your pointer to store some tags there. Because on 64-bit computers we have all these bits, but only 48 are used. So we can store 16 bit worth of data, for free! Ofcourse, your address randomization will be friendly enough to pick memory close to the base of your memory, so of those 48 bits, only 34 are really in use... Oh, you wouldn't believe how starved for memory we are on those pesky 64-bit computers! Of course they do, otherwise they wouldn't run at all. google for MAP_32BIT. Once you've read enough to get sick to your stomach, please realize that this is just the tip of the iceberg. I am guessing there's nothing special about OpenBSD, they would probably be doing it everywhere. Then they lie about being truly 64 bit. When a developer writes a piece of code and that code breaks stuff, the developer gets blamed. Often rightfully so, but sometimes the code only exposes a bug elsewhere. Linux, windows, apple, they all make their memory management behave in certain ways to make these browsers work. When the OS stops the browser from working, people will complain until the OS stops breaking the browser. The recent trend of forking another process for a tab instead of a monolithic single process for the whole browser is a way of extending the time required to clean up this mess? Or there is no relation between them? I cannot look into the heads of the chrome devs. There's no technical reason why the tabs can't run in the same process. There's even no technical need to have them run in separate threads (although it does simplify some things). The separate processes do mean each JIT will have its personal 2GB, without competing with other tabs. So yeah, it could be related. Wow... didn't know this. I heard this somewhere: A man visits the doctor, saying if I do this, it hurts. To which the doctor replies then don't do that. We now have a situation where we say it hurts. The people behind mozilla, chrome v8, webkit (and so much more software) get to play doctor. Will they fix it or tell us not to do that? -- Ariane
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
Googles v8 javascript engine has Pages, Spaces, Heaps and Pagination logic. It even has its own code to map files in. However, the managed to avoid the common pitfall of requiring all platforms to have 4 kB pages: they hardcoded to 8 kB instead. And for those who don't know, OpenBSD has some 16 KB pagesize architectures.
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172871 [IMAGE] Pms Capacitacisn Efectiva de Mixico presenta: Ticnicas Contundentes de Cobranza y Retencisn de Clientes Exclusivas presentaciones 17 de Junio en la Ciudad de Mixico, 21 de Junio Guadalajara, Jalisco. Expositor: Lic. Conrado Gsmez 10 horas de entrenamiento Empresa Registrada ante la STPS Reg. COLG640205CP30005 Smguenos en Twitter@pmscapacitacion o bien en Facebook PMS de Mixico Mayores informes responda este correo electrsnico con los siguientes datos. Empresa: Nombre: Telifono: Email: Nzmero de Interesados: Y en breve le haremos llegar la informacisn completa del evento. O bien comunmquense a nuestros telifonos un ejecutivo con gusto le atendera Tels. (33) 8851-2365, (33)8851-2741. Copyright (C) 2010, PMS Capacitacisn Efectiva de Mixico S.C. Derechos Reservados. PMS de Mixico, El logo de PMS de Mixico son marcas registradas. ADVERTENCIA PMS de Mixico no cuenta con alianzas estratigicas de ningzn tipo dentro de la Republica Mexicana. NO SE DEJE ENGAQAR - DIGA NO A LA PIRATERIA. Todos los logotipos, marcas comerciales e imagenes son propiedad de sus respectivas corporaciones y se utilizan con fines informativos solamente. Este Mensaje ha sido enviado a misc@openbsd.org como usuario de Pms de Mixico o bien un usuario le refiris para recibir este boletmn. Como usuario de Pms de Mixico, en este acto autoriza de manera expresa que Pms de Mixico le puede contactar vma correo electrsnico u otros medios. Si usted ha recibido este mensaje por error, haga caso omiso de el y reporte su cuenta respondiendo este correo con el subject BAJACOBRANZA Unsubscribe to this mailing list, reply a blank message with the subject UNSUBSCRIBE BAJACOBRANZA Tenga en cuenta que la gestisn de nuestras bases de datos es de suma importancia y no es intencisn de la empresa la inconformidad del receptor. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of tecnicas cobranza.jpg]
Re: OT:Re: How do I exclude a directory using tar in OpenBSD?
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 04:11:16PM -0700, patrick keshishian wrote: fucking amateurs. if you ran windows you wouldn't have this problem. Last time I did ran into a window, it did hurt, quite a bit. The window did broke, but I left around a lot of blood and it was messy. Somewhat. Why the obsession for running into windows. I tried, and it was not fun. Hell. I could have more fun sitting on the mud in front of a buldozer. Please excuse me. I have one of those in front of my house, and I need to lie down there for quite some time. -- Gilbert Fernandes
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
On 05/31/2011 06:26 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: Googles v8 javascript engine has Pages, Spaces, Heaps and Pagination logic. It even has its own code to map files in. However, the managed to avoid the common pitfall of requiring all platforms to have 4 kB pages: they hardcoded to 8 kB instead. And for those who don't know, OpenBSD has some 16 KB pagesize architectures. I am no low-level C hacker (I work in industrial automation). But what astounds me about this sort of thing is that the general programming community never seems to learn that taking these kinds of shortcuts eventually bites them, or their users, or the interns they trained before they retired, hard on the buttocks. Y2K anyone? I mean, come on -- storing data in unused bits in a pointer? Even I know that's a bad idea. Is it really that important to run your Javascript 2% faster? I don't use OpenBSD full-time as a desktop, because my principles have been compromised by crack like Flash and high-performance virtual machines. But this sort of thing reminds me why I do dual-boot into it to do my online banking (if but the bank ran it on their servers as well...) Corey
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011, Ariane van der Steldt wrote: The recent trend of forking another process for a tab instead of a monolithic single process for the whole browser is a way of extending the time required to clean up this mess? Or there is no relation between them? I cannot look into the heads of the chrome devs. There's no technical reason why the tabs can't run in the same process. No technical reason if you exclude isolating mutually-distrusting data origins from each other. It is similar to the privilege separation we do in most OpenBSD network-facing daemons - it is pretty much the only way to do sandboxing on Unix. -d
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Corey clinge...@gmail.com wrote: data in unused bits in a pointer? Even I know that's a bad idea. Is it really that important to run your Javascript 2% faster? The difference is quite a bit more than 2%. The technique is sound, imo, but it seems the implementations are lacking some safeguards.
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Corey clinge...@gmail.com wrote: data in unused bits in a pointer? Even I know that's a bad idea. Is it really that important to run your Javascript 2% faster? The difference is quite a bit more than 2%. The technique is sound, imo, but it seems the implementations are lacking some safeguards. The implementations are forcing OS developers to remove safeguards from our kernels. google MAP_32BIT Go see what linux and other systems do with the hint argument to mmap(), regarding address space randomization. Go read some of these implementations to see how often they pass a non-NULL hint. I'm so glad we have more performance in the most dangerous applications
Re: vmmap: bad software everywhere
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Ted Unangst ted.unan...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Corey clinge...@gmail.com wrote: data in unused bits in a pointer? Even I know that's a bad idea. Is it really that important to run your Javascript 2% faster? The difference is quite a bit more than 2%. The technique is sound, imo, but it seems the implementations are lacking some safeguards. This is interesting. I would really appreciate it very much if you don't mind elaborating a bit more for a non-programmer? Thanks! -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity. -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted. -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30v_g83VHK4
Obsolescence engineering (was: vmmap: bad software everywhere)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 31 May 2011 19:51, Otto Moerbeek o...@drijf.net wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 07:23:46PM +, Christian Weisgerber wrote: Marc Espie es...@nerim.net wrote: Not surprisingly, a lot of software that claims to be 64 bits- ready isn't. This touches all web navigators, most jit engines, and probably lots more of software (our ports tree version of gnu-grep, for instance). I don't think a lot suffers from it, but some prominent cases do. Three problems have been mentioned: (1) Truncation of pointers to 32 bits. Our malloc(3) has returned addresses 4 GB for some time now on amd64 (and before that on other archs like alpha), so I don't expect any new fallout there. I seem to remember that we had a rash of ports fixes back when this first happened on amd64. (2) Tagged pointers. A tagged pointer is when you know that not all the bits in a pointer are used to generate an address and you squeeze some other data into the spare bits. This blocks newer versions of Firefox on sparc64. Mozilla's new JavaScript engine uses tagged pointers and those unused address bits on x86 are actually used on sparc64. (3) The expectation that, no matter what their absolute address, the relative offsets between all your pieces of data fit into 32 bits, i.e., all data is within a 4 GB window. That sounds like a bizarre requirement, but apparently some JIT engines are optimized to rely on this. These are the cases that break with new vmmap. The smart programmers solve number (3) by allocating 2G of memory in advance to store their jit compiled code, so their code can use 32 bit relative offsets. They say, hey, it's only virtual memory, so it doesn't take much resources. Often that is true and it seems a smart idea, but it has the consequence that you lose randomization and protected memory with page size granularity. Or you are forced to do all the memory mangement on your own, basically rewriting the memory management part of the OS in your browser. Suddenly the smart idea does not sound so smart anymore. -Otto But, hey, 64-bit desktop machines have only been around since 1993 or so, and I guess some of the Mozilla programmers weren't born yet when we watched oh-so-clever tagged pointer use blow up at, say, the Motorola 68000 to 68020 transition some 25 years ago. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de Great. Just absolutely fantastic. These people come up with more and more resource intensive ways of doing the same old computing tasks we've been able to do for a decade or more so that the rest of us have to buy newer, fancier, more expensive machines to do the same things we've been able to do for a decade or more. Of course, for a significant portion of the population, high performance computing means a computer I can access from the convenience of my home, rather than having to spend an hour walking to the library and an hour walking back just so I can sign up and wait an hour or two for the chance to use it for 30 minutes and then rush to do the important things, like fill out job applications for blue collar positions for companies who can't be bothered to take paper applications or check to see if I have any important business e-mail from people who are too annoying to send old-fashioned snail mail. For a lot of people, a computer is like a glorified communications device and typewriter. Except a whole lot more expensive. Hence the usefulness of old computers. When everyone else is rushing to get the latest and greatest, it's often possible to get a sufficiently aged computer for very cheap or even free. Of course, the big corporations don't make as much money if people do that. Which probably explains at least some of the bad software. If we make this new software resource intensive and inefficient enough, then people will have to buy newer, more expensive computers in order to run it. But the older software works just fine? Then we'll just have to stop releasing security patches for it. Good thing we didn't write solid, secure code to begin with. Now the hackers (or crackers, or whatever the correct term is) out there will force the laggards to upgrade to newer more expensive hardware than runs newer more expensive more inefficient software than we still support, and the computer industry goes on! Yay hackers! Well, I can understand that line from corporations looking to earn money, but it makes less sense to hear it from not-for-profits like Linux or Firefox. They say we should all upgrade our computers after three years, five years if we want to push it. What they seem to have missed is that it is a recession. A really bad recession. Goodbye art shows! Hello tent cities! Welcome to the most dangerous town in California: stop laying off cops! And that sort of thing In other words, lots of people have better things to do with their
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Mega Promo passagens com ati 90% de desconto Aproveite somente ati domingo TAM Para voar ati 7 de junho Reserve Agora Como fazer o cadastro TAM Fidelidade Desde 1993 a TAM tem um programa de fidelidade que acumula pontos a cada viagem feita pelo passageiro. Os pontos sco trocados por viagens em diversos trechos do pams e do mundo. Para participar do programa i necessario cadastrar-se pelo site, a partir dam, cada viagem feita soma pontos ao cartco que serco transformados em passagens para novos vtos. Para se ter uma ideia de quco proveitoso pode ser ter o cadastro no TAM Fidelidade, com 10.000 pontos i possmvel viajar para qualquer trecho dentro da Amirica do Sul, ati mesmo em feriados. Alim disso, a companhia airea geralmente cria promogues relacionadas ao cartco, que permitem trocas de pontos por passagens a partir de 4.000 pontos acumulados. [IMAGE] [IMAGE] )2011 TAM Linhas Aireas S.A. Proibida reprodugco total ou parcial sem autorizagco
