Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
Well ignoring all the when before I would just like to say thanks for another OpenBSD release which I have just received, early as always. I for one will always buy the CD/T-shirt/anything else useful'ish I can afford. It'll go on my test server this weekend. thanks again, Jon On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 20:55 -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: On 4/23/07, frantisek holop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. the faq says prefer binary packages. i'd really like to. I honestly don't understand your logic. And I honestly don't understand the rudeness. We pre-ordered, yes, but we should have no expectation to even receive the CDs prior to the release date, Which you did. We would not hear WHINING from you if you had not alreay received it. let alone bug fixes and packages. We've simply been allowed to order prior to the release date. Anything beyond that is a bonus, and one for which we should be grateful. Let's not ruin a really cool thing by being greedy and ungrateful. All I hear is ME ME ME ME ME Like the rest of the world, we have learned to ignore that.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
frantisek holop wrote: Ok. You need to stop pissing off the developers. They've already said, wait till May 1st. It's done. It's not open to discussion. Move on. Accept the fact that some people know more about running a project on a limited budget and limited resources. We DON'T want LESS time spent hacking and MORE time spent dealing with getting packages available before the release. Wait until May 1st. Then you can perform a CD upgrade to 4.1. Then you can point to the new packages and use pkg_add to upgrade.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frantisek holop Sent: 24 April 2007 12:16 AM To: OpenBSD Subject: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites hi there, today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. i am stuck with the packages on the cdrom... sarcasm while i am here, how was the install media's package list assembled? i am quite puzzled seeing some of them here. i am sure people can't live without xpostit right after the pre-order install :P /sarcasm it's like the 2.6 times again... xterm and fvwm2 :D -- the man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything. HI. OK I have read all the responses to this. Let me clarify first. If I understand you correctly, you are in effect asking for only the packages (NOT the rest) to be made available via FTP before release, so as to allow pre-order users to use them. In this way, those who have not ordered will not be able to download early, since the binary installation files will be uploaded only after release date. This may sound like a good idea, but I suspect the REAL reason it has never been used is time. Think about it. Right about now, Theo and co. are running around dealing with still-incoming orders, constantly chatting to the manufacturer to sort out problems, doing some coding as well, and planning the FTP rollout. This is a busy schedule. I imagine by doing what will in effect be TWO FTP rollouts will put even more strain on the team. I am sure the devs understand your problem and appreciate the idea, but they are probably too busy running around to change things now. Cheers
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 08:38:32PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? OK, let me keep it simple. Release day is May 1. ok, ok, keep the steam down. nothing really happened, i was just looking at this from a diff angle. i simply did not make the connection that i am not supposed to use my cds before may 1. put a big sticker bits inside valid only from may 1 on the case or something :P and all you others: so is it not a punishment that you have the cds and still can't use them? hypocrites, all of you! -f -- fact: there are more horse's asses than there are horses
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 09:36:36AM +0200, frantisek holop wrote: | Release day is May 1. | | ok, ok, keep the steam down. nothing really happened, | i was just looking at this from a diff angle. | | i simply did not make the connection that i am not | supposed to use my cds before may 1. | | put a big sticker bits inside valid only from may 1 | on the case or something :P | | and all you others: so is it not a punishment that you | have the cds and still can't use them? hypocrites, all of you! This is such a load of crap. $ uname -a OpenBSD despair.weirdnet.nl 4.1 GENERIC#1099 sparc64 $ sysctl kern.version kern.version=OpenBSD 4.1 (GENERIC) #1099: Sat Mar 10 19:18:09 MST 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/sparc64/compile/GENERIC I just upgraded my sparc64 to 4.1 this weekend from the CD's I pre-ordered (and received well before May 1st). What are the downsides ? o I can not install binary packages for the ports I use o I can not get patches from errata41.html yet o It's officially not supported yet Who cares ? o I can build ports from source (ports.tar.gz is on the CD's) o I can follow source-changes and pick up bits from there o I don't really need any official support anyway It's not rocket science. Yes, it may not be the officially supported way of doing things. I too prefer to install from binary packages, but the portstree works just as well, just a bit slower on my measily 440MHz sparc64. I too prefer the official patches from errataXX.html, but most patches are easily backported from -current and if I foul up, I only have myself to blame. Yes, I'm running 4.1 before it's released officially on May 1st. Why ? Because I think it's fun. I don't consider it punishment. I can use the CD's, use the software on them, listen to the audio track, put the stickers on my laptop etc. Where exactly am I punished ? According to the website, 4.1 is still an 'upcoming release', I think it's nice that I have it now. How am I a hypocrite ? Please, do tell. Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd console is /[EMAIL PROTECTED],0/[EMAIL PROTECTED],1/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED],3803f8 Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. Copyright (c) 1995-2007 OpenBSD. All rights reserved. http://www.OpenBSD.org OpenBSD 4.1 (GENERIC) #1099: Sat Mar 10 19:18:09 MST 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/sparc64/compile/GENERIC total memory = 1073741824 avail memory = 969433088 using 6553 buffers containing 53682176 bytes of memory bootpath: /[EMAIL PROTECTED],0/[EMAIL PROTECTED],1/[EMAIL PROTECTED],0/[EMAIL PROTECTED],0 mainbus0 (root): Netra t1 (UltraSPARC-IIi 440MHz) cpu0 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-IIi (rev 9.1) @ 440.013 MHz, version 0 FPU cpu0: physical 16K instruction (32 b/l), 16K data (32 b/l), 2048K external (64 b/l) psycho0 at mainbus0 addr 0xfffc: SUNW,sabre, impl 0, version 0, ign 7c0 psycho0: bus range 0-4, PCI bus 0 psycho0: dvma map c000-dfff, iotdb 5396000-5416000 pci0 at psycho0 ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 1 Sun Simba PCI-PCI rev 0x13 pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 ebus0 at pci1 dev 1 function 0 Sun PCIO EBus2 rev 0x01 auxio0 at ebus0 addr 726000-726003, 728000-728003, 72a000-72a003, 72c000-72c003, 72f000-72f003 power0 at ebus0 addr 724000-724003 ipl 37 SUNW,pll at ebus0 addr 504000-504002 not configured com0 at ebus0 addr 3803f8-3803ff ipl 28: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo com0: console com1 at ebus0 addr 3602f8-3602ff ipl 20: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo lpt0 at ebus0 addr 340278-340287, 30015c-30015d, 70-7f ipl 34: polled fdthree at ebus0 addr 3203f0-3203f7, 706000-70600f, 72-720003 ipl 39 not configured clock1 at ebus0 addr 0-1fff: mk48t59 flashprom at ebus0 addr 0-f not configured watchdog at ebus0 addr 20-20003f ipl 4 not configured display7seg at ebus0 addr 200040-200040 not configured beeper0 at ebus0 addr 722000-722003 flashprom at ebus0 addr 40-5f not configured flashprom at ebus0 addr 80-9f not configured pcfiic0 at ebus0 addr 60-63 ipl 40 iic0 at pcfiic0 pcfadc0 at iic0 addr 0x4f i2cpcf,8574a at iic0 addr 0x38 not configured i2cpcf,8574a at iic0 addr 0x39 not configured pcfiic1 at ebus0 addr 10-13 ipl 27 iic1 at pcfiic1 SUNW,lom at ebus0 addr 40-400063 not configured hme0 at pci1 dev 1 function 1 Sun HME rev 0x01: ivec 0x7e1, address 08:00:20:da:0d:de luphy0 at hme0 phy 0: LU6612 10/100 PHY, rev. 1 siop0 at pci1 dev 2 function 0 Symbios Logic 53c875 rev 0x03: ivec 0x7e0, using 4K of on-board RAM scsibus0 at siop0: 16 targets sd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: HITACHI, DK32EJ-36NC, 320E SCSI3 0/direct fixed sd0: 34732MB, 40939 cyl, 3 head, 579 sec, 512 bytes/sec, 71132959 sec total sd1 at scsibus0 targ 1 lun 0: HITACHI, DK32EJ-36NC, 320E SCSI3 0/direct fixed sd1: 34732MB, 40939 cyl, 3 head, 579 sec, 512 bytes/sec, 71132959 sec total ppb1 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 Sun Simba PCI-PCI rev 0x13 pci2 at ppb1
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
frantisek holop wrote: i simply did not make the connection that i am not supposed to use my cds before may 1. put a big sticker bits inside valid only from may 1 on the case or something :P Why? It's pretty obvious that the official release date is May 1 and you cant expect to download anything before then. and all you others: so is it not a punishment that you have the cds and still can't use them? hypocrites, all of you! Yeah, getting the CD's ahead of the official release date sure is a heavy punishment. Seriously, how hard is this to understand? --- Lars Hansson
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
On 4/24/07, frantisek holop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ok, ok, keep the steam down. nothing really happened, i was just looking at this from a diff angle. i simply did not make the connection that i am not supposed to use my cds before may 1. put a big sticker bits inside valid only from may 1 on the case or something :P oh come on! this couldn't be any simpler! everything on the CDs *IS VALID* as soon as you hold it in your hands, use it Luke. OTOH, packages on the official OpenBSD ain't provided prior to the release. why still you flood the mailing list with nonsense while these things are pretty obvious? and all you others: so is it not a punishment that you have the cds and still can't use them? hypocrites, all of you! STFU, please. as i pointed above so brilliantly, this is phony B.S. -f -- fact: there are more horse's asses than there are horses true
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], frantisek holop wrote: and all you others: so is it not a punishment that you have the cds and still can't use them? hypocrites, all of you! Last time I looked, there were packages on the cd too... -- [100~Plax]sb16i0A2172656B63616820636420726568746F6E61207473754A[dZ1!=b]salax
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
Well, just to let you know OpenBSD has come a long way over the years. Take a look at what you got if you were using it in it's beginning, ftp://mirror.iawnet.sandia.gov/pub/OpenBSD/2.0/ diana
4.1 packages on the ftp sites
hi there, today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. i am stuck with the packages on the cdrom... sarcasm while i am here, how was the install media's package list assembled? i am quite puzzled seeing some of them here. i am sure people can't live without xpostit right after the pre-order install :P /sarcasm it's like the 2.6 times again... xterm and fvwm2 :D -- the man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. while i am here, how was the install media's package list assembled? By what fits.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. the faq says prefer binary packages. i'd really like to. -f -- what, me ambivalent? well, yes and no.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:37:52AM +0200, frantisek holop wrote: i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? 4.1 isn't released yet.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:37:52AM +0200, frantisek holop wrote: i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. the faq says prefer binary packages. i'd really like to. What part of OpenBSD 4.1 will be released on May 1, do you not understand? -ME
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 05:47:02PM -0500, Matthew R. Dempsky said that On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:37:52AM +0200, frantisek holop wrote: i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? 4.1 isn't released yet. i am not asking for 4.1, i am asking for packages compiled with the right libc and asking preittily :D -f -- individualists of the world - unite!
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
frantisek holop wrote: hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. the faq says prefer binary packages. i'd really like to. -f don't look at it as a punishment, just a limit on your reward. :) The reward is getting access to the release early. You got that, you don't get absolutely everything. Yet. :) The 4.1 infrastructure isn't in place yet. Unless you really know what you are doing, you really shouldn't be running 4.1-release yet in mission critical applications, as it is unsupported code. That will change on May 1... Nick.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
On 4/23/07, frantisek holop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. Please tell us you're joking. Please. How are pre-orderers being punished? Greg
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:37:52AM +0200, frantisek holop wrote: hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. the faq says prefer binary packages. i'd really like to. You actually shouldn't install 4.1 until the -stable branch is opened; IIRC, no bug fixes are available before official release, either. I don't really know the reasons behind this, though. Joachim -- TFMotD: gcov (1) - coverage testing tool
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 06:58:15PM -0400, Nick Holland said that frantisek holop wrote: hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. the faq says prefer binary packages. i'd really like to. -f don't look at it as a punishment, just a limit on your reward. :) The reward is getting access to the release early. You got that, you don't get absolutely everything. Yet. :) well, as with everything, there are more ways to look at this :D i'll just go and a find a 4.0 cd somewhere around :) -f The 4.1 infrastructure isn't in place yet. Unless you really know what you are doing, you really shouldn't be running 4.1-release yet in mission critical applications, as it is unsupported code. That will change on May 1... ooh, the MC in the house :P -f -- girls just wanna have fun... guys just wanna have girls.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
On 4/23/07, frantisek holop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. the faq says prefer binary packages. i'd really like to. I honestly don't understand your logic. We pre-ordered, yes, but we should have no expectation to even receive the CDs prior to the release date, let alone bug fixes and packages. We've simply been allowed to order prior to the release date. Anything beyond that is a bonus, and one for which we should be grateful. Let's not ruin a really cool thing by being greedy and ungrateful.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? OK, let me keep it simple. Release day is May 1. getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. No, sorry, but you have it somewhat wrong. If we were punishing pre-ordering people they would get their CDs on May 1 or later, like they do for some other projects. To be brutally honest our sales have been slowly decreasing every release (while our FTP bandwidth grows pretty much without any bound) release after release. These days, CDs are primarily a way to fund our continued existance. Repeat that three times. I'm not stupid; I am trying to find a middle ground. It is really difficult to find because of the massive capitalization some US-based Linux distributions have. It is really easy to destroy our efforts and throw out things like OpenSSH development and such at the same time, and none of us want that to happen.
Re: 4.1 packages on the ftp sites
On 4/23/07, frantisek holop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hmm, on Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 04:27:21PM -0600, Theo de Raadt said that today my openbsd package arived (thanks wim) and i know that it's not released yet, but i was wondering if it was possible to make the packages available on the ftp servers. the base system is not there yet, so obviously only people who have pre-ordered would have a use for it. No, sorry, we won't make them available yet. i can't think of any serious reason, could you help out a bit? getting dangerously close to whining, i really think you are punishing pre-orderers here. the faq says prefer binary packages. i'd really like to. I honestly don't understand your logic. And I honestly don't understand the rudeness. We pre-ordered, yes, but we should have no expectation to even receive the CDs prior to the release date, Which you did. We would not hear WHINING from you if you had not alreay received it. let alone bug fixes and packages. We've simply been allowed to order prior to the release date. Anything beyond that is a bonus, and one for which we should be grateful. Let's not ruin a really cool thing by being greedy and ungrateful. All I hear is ME ME ME ME ME Like the rest of the world, we have learned to ignore that.
