Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On Sat 30 Apr 2011 at 10:03:11 AM -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: >keys and uploaded files need someplace to be. You've raised an >interesting point with flash hardware. How well is that working for >you? I've been using IDE cflash perimeter firewalls since about 2006, another bsd but no complaints. This one has no fans, moving parts etc, AMD Geode LX (586-class), 498.08 MHz, id 0x5a2 -George
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
* Stuart Henderson [2011-04-30 19:03]: > On 2011/04/30 10:14, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > > > > > > The only _maintained_ software raid on OpenBSD is softraid(4), that > > > has only just recently had code written to allow booting from it and > > > it's not committed yet. > > > > Really? The notes at > > http://www.eclectica.ca/howto/openbsd-software-raid-howto.php are for > > OpenBSD 3.7. > > Yes really. I was careful to highlight the word MAINTAINED. > I do not suggest anybody uses raidframe on openbsd. to word it obvious obvious: it is pretty likely that some future version of openbsd will drop raidframe entirely, users will have to dump & restore. so if you're looking for an install that is supposed to live for a while (that includes version upgrades of course) you are way better of running softraid(4). I do run a couple of softraid(4) raid1, and zero raidframe. -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On 2011/04/30 10:14, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > > > > The only _maintained_ software raid on OpenBSD is softraid(4), that > > has only just recently had code written to allow booting from it and > > it's not committed yet. > > Really? The notes at > http://www.eclectica.ca/howto/openbsd-software-raid-howto.php are for > OpenBSD 3.7. Yes really. I was careful to highlight the word MAINTAINED. I do not suggest anybody uses raidframe on openbsd.
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 5:13 AM, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2011-04-29, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: >> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Stuart Henderson >> wrote: >>> On 2011-04-29, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: So, I'm looking for recommendations. Modest 1U pizza boxes? >>> >>> R210? (as long as you don't need externally accessible disks.) >>> Even brand names for known-good PCI or PCIe SATA controllers would be helpful, >>> >>> LSI >> >> Thanks for the thought. I was unclear: I wanted the model name, not >> the manufacturer's name. I've had.. harsh experience when some >> components by a particular vendor work well, but others do not. And >> even model names can be *very* confusing when a vendor deliberately >> has a name on the box that doesn't match the spec sheet that doesn't >> match the BIOS reported component name. (Dear lord, don't *get* me >> going on the old 3com network cards and the "Mega[notworking]RAID" >> cards of various vintages. > > Anything supported by mpi(4) mfi(4) or mpii(4) should be ok (covering > all the hardware raid options on dell boxes should work). Out of these > mpi and mfi are more widely used, so will have had more testing. > For older hardware ami(4) is ok too but it sounds like you're > looking for something new. I was hoping for model numbers. Now that I'm up with software RAID, I can take ktime and look to the future for hardware RAID. The software RAID basically took me 2 days poring through documents and details. I'm still writing up my notes to submit to the current guideline maintainer. (The originals are very good notes!! I'd love to see them linked to directly on the OpenBSD faq, or incorporated there. B, but I can make some steps safer.) >> I've actually spent a bit more time and gotten software RAID working >> and will send some updates to the authors of the very helpful software >> RAID guidelines that I found. > > The only _maintained_ software raid on OpenBSD is softraid(4), that > has only just recently had code written to allow booting from it and > it's not committed yet. Really? The notes at http://www.eclectica.ca/howto/openbsd-software-raid-howto.php are for OpenBSD 3.7. > For what you're talking about using the machine for, I'd be much > happier with a single disk than an unmaintained software raid setup. > And if there's a choice between two (carp'd?) boxes with single disks, > or one box with raid, two boxes would be hugely preferable. I'm inclined to agree, for personal experience reasons. I've done a lot of "high availability" setups, and hardware failures have been one of the *least* of the sources of failures. Configuration screwups, especially for feature filled and highly tuned setups, have been far more of a risk. There are other reasons not put more boxes in the relevant rack right now. So, in the longer term, I'll be pursuing that. I might even virtualize it: I've got OpenBSD 4.8 running very well under VirtualBox and reasonably well under KVM right now, except for some bridge configurationi reasons, and could consider VMWare.
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On 04/30/11 01:34, George Georgalis wrote: > Nico, I don't know what your "risk" is, but if it's a perimeter > box running pf and ssh maybe consider running on cflash or usb > stick? Or one of those bootable cdroms? I log to a ram fs so I > think the only media writes are for ntp.drift, and yes I'm more > concerned about the other hardware failing than the OS media. > > -George What "risk" do you think flash or CDROM minimizes? I suspect you believe no moving parts means reliable. I think you are wrong. Combined with the downtime you will cause yourself with your silly "no media writes" crap, I am SURE you are very wrong. Nick.
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 1:34 AM, George Georgalis wrote: > Nico, I don't know what your "risk" is, but if it's a perimeter > box running pf and ssh maybe consider running on cflash or usb > stick? Or one of those bootable cdroms? I log to a ram fs so I > think the only media writes are for ntp.drift, and yes I'm more > concerned about the other hardware failing than the OS media. > > -George Those are not really OpenBSD issues, but architectural ones you're addressing. It's also hosting upload/download content, so non-writable OS's are not going to work: if I could gracefully and quickly do it, I'd actually make it a live CD based setup, but configured user SSH keys and uploaded files need someplace to be. You've raised an interesting point with flash hardware. How well is that working for you? Note that I have significantly more write traffic because the host is an SFTP/SCP server as well as mer SSH passthrough.
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On 2011-04-29, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Stuart Henderson > wrote: >> On 2011-04-29, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: >>> >>> So, I'm looking for recommendations. Modest 1U pizza boxes? >> >> R210? (as long as you don't need externally accessible disks.) >> >>> Even brand >>> names for known-good PCI or PCIe SATA controllers would be helpful, >> >> LSI > > Thanks for the thought. I was unclear: I wanted the model name, not > the manufacturer's name. I've had.. harsh experience when some > components by a particular vendor work well, but others do not. And > even model names can be *very* confusing when a vendor deliberately > has a name on the box that doesn't match the spec sheet that doesn't > match the BIOS reported component name. (Dear lord, don't *get* me > going on the old 3com network cards and the "Mega[notworking]RAID" > cards of various vintages. Anything supported by mpi(4) mfi(4) or mpii(4) should be ok (covering all the hardware raid options on dell boxes should work). Out of these mpi and mfi are more widely used, so will have had more testing. For older hardware ami(4) is ok too but it sounds like you're looking for something new. > I've actually spent a bit more time and gotten software RAID working > and will send some updates to the authors of the very helpful software > RAID guidelines that I found. The only _maintained_ software raid on OpenBSD is softraid(4), that has only just recently had code written to allow booting from it and it's not committed yet. For what you're talking about using the machine for, I'd be much happier with a single disk than an unmaintained software raid setup. And if there's a choice between two (carp'd?) boxes with single disks, or one box with raid, two boxes would be hugely preferable.
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
Nico, I don't know what your "risk" is, but if it's a perimeter box running pf and ssh maybe consider running on cflash or usb stick? Or one of those bootable cdroms? I log to a ram fs so I think the only media writes are for ntp.drift, and yes I'm more concerned about the other hardware failing than the OS media. -George
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > Thanks for the thought. I was unclear: I wanted the model name, not > the manufacturer's name. I've had good experience with the Dell R415s and their H700 RAID controllers. Everything seems well supported, and they're fast and cheap. dmesg below. Only caveat is that the RAID controller consumes the only PCIe slot. We've just purchased some R610s for use as OpenBSD routers (as they have two PCIe slots and four onboard NICs) and Dell will factory-install an (apparently) OpenBSD-compatible Intel X520 SFP+ dual-10GE card at a reasonable price, and supply appropriate SFP+ modules. Cheers, Patrick bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0x8000 0xc8000/0x1000 0xc9000/0x2600 0xcb800/0x6000 0xec000/0x4000! ipmi at mainbus0 not configured pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "ATI RD890 PCIE" rev 0x02 ppb0 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "ATI RD890 PCIE" rev 0x00: apic 7 int 28 (irq 255) pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 mfi0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 "Symbios Logic MegaRAID SAS2108 GEN2" rev 0x05: apic 7 int 0 (irq 14), Dell PERC H700 Adapter mfi0: logical drives 1, version 12.10.0-0025, 1024MB RAM scsibus0 at mfi0: 1 targets sd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: SCSI3 0/direct fixed sd0: 47104MB, 512 bytes/sec, 96468992 sec total ppb1 at pci0 dev 9 function 0 "ATI RD890 PCIE" rev 0x00: apic 7 int 29 (irq 255) pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 bnx0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Broadcom BCM5716" rev 0x20: apic 7 int 24 (irq 14) bnx1 at pci2 dev 0 function 1 "Broadcom BCM5716" rev 0x20: apic 7 int 25 (irq 11) ahci0 at pci0 dev 17 function 0 "ATI SBx00 SATA" rev 0x00: apic 6 int 22 (irq 15), AHCI 1.1 scsibus1 at ahci0: 32 targets ohci0 at pci0 dev 18 function 0 "ATI SB700 USB" rev 0x00: apic 6 int 16 (irq 14), version 1.0, legacy support ohci1 at pci0 dev 18 function 1 "ATI SB700 USB" rev 0x00: apic 6 int 16 (irq 14), version 1.0, legacy support ehci0 at pci0 dev 18 function 2 "ATI SB700 USB2" rev 0x00: apic 6 int 17 (irq 11) usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0 "ATI EHCI root hub" rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 ohci2 at pci0 dev 19 function 0 "ATI SB700 USB" rev 0x00: apic 6 int 18 (irq 10), version 1.0, legacy support ohci3 at pci0 dev 19 function 1 "ATI SB700 USB" rev 0x00: apic 6 int 18 (irq 10), version 1.0, legacy support ehci1 at pci0 dev 19 function 2 "ATI SB700 USB2" rev 0x00: apic 6 int 19 (irq 6) usb1 at ehci1: USB revision 2.0 uhub1 at usb1 "ATI EHCI root hub" rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 piixpm0 at pci0 dev 20 function 0 "ATI SBx00 SMBus" rev 0x3d: SMI iic0 at piixpm0 pciide0 at pci0 dev 20 function 1 "ATI SB700 IDE" rev 0x00: DMA, channel 0 configured to native-PCI, channel 1 configured to native-PCI pciide0: using apic 6 int 16 (irq 14) for native-PCI interrupt atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0 scsibus2 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets cd0 at scsibus2 targ 0 lun 0: ATAPI 5/cdrom removable cd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 5 pcib0 at pci0 dev 20 function 3 "ATI SB700 ISA" rev 0x00 ppb2 at pci0 dev 20 function 4 "ATI SB600 PCI" rev 0x00 pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 vga1 at pci3 dev 4 function 0 "Matrox MGA G200eW" rev 0x0a wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation) pchb1 at pci0 dev 24 function 0 "AMD AMD64 10h HyperTransport" rev 0x00 pchb2 at pci0 dev 24 function 1 "AMD AMD64 10h Address Map" rev 0x00 pchb3 at pci0 dev 24 function 2 "AMD AMD64 10h DRAM Cfg" rev 0x00 km0 at pci0 dev 24 function 3 "AMD AMD64 10h Misc Cfg" rev 0x00 pchb4 at pci0 dev 24 function 4 "AMD AMD64 10h Link Cfg" rev 0x00 usb2 at ohci0: USB revision 1.0 uhub2 at usb2 "ATI OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb3 at ohci1: USB revision 1.0 uhub3 at usb3 "ATI OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb4 at ohci2: USB revision 1.0 uhub4 at usb4 "ATI OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb5 at ohci3: USB revision 1.0 uhub5 at usb5 "ATI OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 isa0 at pcib0 isadma0 at isa0 com0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo com1 at isa0 port 0x2f8/8 irq 3: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot) pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0 pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61 spkr0 at pcppi0 npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: reported by CPUID; using exception 16 mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support uhub6 at uhub0 port 3 "Standard Microsystems product 0x2514" rev 2.00/0.00 addr 2 uhidev0 at uhub2 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 "Avocent USB Composite Device-0" rev 1.10/0.00 addr 2 uhidev0: iclass 3/1 ukbd0 at uhidev0: 8 modifier keys, 6 key codes wskbd1 at ukbd0 mux 1 wskbd1: connecting to wsdisplay0 uhidev1 at uhub2 port 2 configuration 1 interface 1 "Avocent USB Composite Device-0" rev 1.10/0.00 addr 2 uhidev1: iclass 3/1 ums0 at uhidev1 ums0: X report 0x0002 not supported softraid0 at root root on sd0a swap on sd0b dump on sd0b bnx0: address 60:eb:69:6f:0d:e5 brgphy0 at bnx0 phy 1: BCM5709 10/100/1000baseT PHY, rev. 8 bnx1: a
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2011-04-29, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: >> >> So, I'm looking for recommendations. Modest 1U pizza boxes? > > R210? (as long as you don't need externally accessible disks.) > >> Even brand >> names for known-good PCI or PCIe SATA controllers would be helpful, > > LSI Thanks for the thought. I was unclear: I wanted the model name, not the manufacturer's name. I've had.. harsh experience when some components by a particular vendor work well, but others do not. And even model names can be *very* confusing when a vendor deliberately has a name on the box that doesn't match the spec sheet that doesn't match the BIOS reported component name. (Dear lord, don't *get* me going on the old 3com network cards and the "Mega[notworking]RAID" cards of various vintages. I've actually spent a bit more time and gotten software RAID working and will send some updates to the authors of the very helpful software RAID guidelines that I found.
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
http://www.shiningsilence.com/dbsdlog/2011/04/27/7673.html Areca is well supported by OpenBSD (from man page), you might have to bring in some functionality from FreeBSD. I have no experience with modern cards, but I will be keeping Areca in mind for future. I have used old Dell Percs RAID controllers and somewhat newer LSI, they were good. Thanks On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 6:58 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Abel Abraham Camarillo Ojeda > wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: >>> I just went halfway through the "build your own custom kernel, >>> manually configure partition tables, etc., etc." rituals to set up >>> software RAID for OpenBSD 4.8, and have concluded that it's not >>> economical the engineering time to do all that manual work for >>> something available in hardware. >>> >>> So, I'm looking for modest servers simply act as a locked down >>> external SSH server. I can lock down the OpenSSH pretty thoroughly, >>> I'm just looking for modest, known-compatible server hardware. Any >>> good recommendations? The listings for RAID compatibility include a >>> lot of higher end cards, and for this application, RAID 1 is plenty. >>> >>> >> >> Be sure to buy two of them, for when the RAID card fails. >> > > My prepositions also seem to have run shrieking for the hills while > writing that note. My English is usually better than that > > This is a fair point, and I did intend to buy several for various > other uses as well. I'm looking at replacing/upgrading a set of > hardware, so standardizing on hardware and keeping several hosts > compatible with robust OpenBSD is reasonable. I'd like to start it > right: even though the software RAID is available, I found the very > helpful server compatibility list at > http://www.armorlogic.com/openbsd-information-server-compatibility-list.html, > and the RAID compatible chipset list at > http://www.openbsd.org/i386.html#hardware. > > Problem is, the twain don't easily meet. I don't need RAID6, just > RAID1, and drilling down through server specs to find whether they're > compatible is fairly painful. And for the server compatibility > list, a lot of those aren't being manufactured anymore, or are way, > way more server than I need. (I just need pizza boxes, not > virtualizaton clustering servers.) > > So, I'm looking for recommendations. Modest 1U pizza boxes? Even brand > names for known-good PCI or PCIe SATA controllers would be helpful, > rather than having to chew through the chipsets. (Been there done > that, lots of vendors keep it really obscured, and my old favorite > 3Ware got bought by LSI.)
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On 2011-04-29, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > > So, I'm looking for recommendations. Modest 1U pizza boxes? R210? (as long as you don't need externally accessible disks.) > Even brand > names for known-good PCI or PCIe SATA controllers would be helpful, LSI
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Abel Abraham Camarillo Ojeda wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: >> I just went halfway through the "build your own custom kernel, >> manually configure partition tables, etc., etc." rituals to set up >> software RAID for OpenBSD 4.8, and have concluded that it's not >> economical the engineering time to do all that manual work for >> something available in hardware. >> >> So, I'm looking for modest servers simply act as a locked down >> external SSH server. I can lock down the OpenSSH pretty thoroughly, >> I'm just looking for modest, known-compatible server hardware. Any >> good recommendations? The listings for RAID compatibility include a >> lot of higher end cards, and for this application, RAID 1 is plenty. >> >> > > Be sure to buy two of them, for when the RAID card fails. > My prepositions also seem to have run shrieking for the hills while writing that note. My English is usually better than that This is a fair point, and I did intend to buy several for various other uses as well. I'm looking at replacing/upgrading a set of hardware, so standardizing on hardware and keeping several hosts compatible with robust OpenBSD is reasonable. I'd like to start it right: even though the software RAID is available, I found the very helpful server compatibility list at http://www.armorlogic.com/openbsd-information-server-compatibility-list.html, and the RAID compatible chipset list at http://www.openbsd.org/i386.html#hardware. Problem is, the twain don't easily meet. I don't need RAID6, just RAID1, and drilling down through server specs to find whether they're compatible is fairly painful. And for the server compatibility list, a lot of those aren't being manufactured anymore, or are way, way more server than I need. (I just need pizza boxes, not virtualizaton clustering servers.) So, I'm looking for recommendations. Modest 1U pizza boxes? Even brand names for known-good PCI or PCIe SATA controllers would be helpful, rather than having to chew through the chipsets. (Been there done that, lots of vendors keep it really obscured, and my old favorite 3Ware got bought by LSI.)
Re: Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > I just went halfway through the "build your own custom kernel, > manually configure partition tables, etc., etc." rituals to set up > software RAID for OpenBSD 4.8, and have concluded that it's not > economical the engineering time to do all that manual work for > something available in hardware. > > So, I'm looking for modest servers simply act as a locked down > external SSH server. I can lock down the OpenSSH pretty thoroughly, > I'm just looking for modest, known-compatible server hardware. Any > good recommendations? The listings for RAID compatibility include a > lot of higher end cards, and for this application, RAID 1 is plenty. > > Be sure to buy two of them, for when the RAID card fails.
Any suggests for modest, known compatible servers with RAID 1?
I just went halfway through the "build your own custom kernel, manually configure partition tables, etc., etc." rituals to set up software RAID for OpenBSD 4.8, and have concluded that it's not economical the engineering time to do all that manual work for something available in hardware. So, I'm looking for modest servers simply act as a locked down external SSH server. I can lock down the OpenSSH pretty thoroughly, I'm just looking for modest, known-compatible server hardware. Any good recommendations? The listings for RAID compatibility include a lot of higher end cards, and for this application, RAID 1 is plenty.
