Re: FAQ 11.1.2 outdated? (framebuffer support)

2014-02-16 Thread Mark Kettenis
   11.1.2 - Can I have any kind of graphics without X?

   Assuming you won't accept ASCII graphics, that requires some kind of
   framebuffer console driver. Some operating systems provide this, but
   there is not currently one for OpenBSD, nor is there much interest
   among developers for one.

 Except doesn't drm(4) enable console framebuffer stuff now? Maybe we
 can't do vesa/fbdev or whatever like linux can, but I'm not sure this
 answer is still correct.
 
 Thoughts?

That FAQ entry has been a bit of a lie since forever, and reflects the
i386/amd64-centric mindset of many people.  The OpenBSD platforms
running on the true graphical workstations of the late 80's, early
90's have always had a framebuffer console and wsdisplay(4) provides
interfaces to map this so you can change the pixels.

With inteldrm(4) and radeondrm(4), i386/amd64 has finally caught up.
In principle this means you can use the interfaces provided by drm(4)
to map the framebuffer and even do fancy 3D stuff without running X.
I haven't provided the glue to expose those framebuffers through
wsdisplay(4) yet though.  But at least one OpenBSD developer is
interrested in doing so.

I think most OpenBSD developers still prefer a standard vga text
console, since it scrolls much faster.  But more and more i386/amd64
machines come with UEFI and boot into framebuffer mode unless you
switch them into legacy BIOS mode.  And it is only a matter of time
before that gets broken.  Given the engineering standards of today's
computer industry, I expect that to happen in the very near future.



Re: FAQ 11.1.2 outdated? (framebuffer support)

2014-02-16 Thread Marc Espie
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 12:31:08PM +0100, Mark Kettenis wrote:
 I think most OpenBSD developers still prefer a standard vga text
 console, since it scrolls much faster.  But more and more i386/amd64
 machines come with UEFI and boot into framebuffer mode unless you
 switch them into legacy BIOS mode.  And it is only a matter of time
 before that gets broken.  Given the engineering standards of today's
 computer industry, I expect that to happen in the very near future.

Depends a lot on the size of your screen and the speed of your machine.

Having a huge console that scrolls at a reasonable rate beats lightning-fast
scroll on a tiny screen, at least for me.

Now, if you could manage to restore some kind of scrollback buffer thru
page up/page down, things would be perfect... :)



FAQ 11.1.2 outdated? (framebuffer support)

2014-02-15 Thread Jean-Philippe Ouellet
Hello,

11.1.2 - Can I have any kind of graphics without X?

Assuming you won't accept ASCII graphics, that requires some kind of
framebuffer console driver. Some operating systems provide this, but
there is not currently one for OpenBSD, nor is there much interest
among developers for one.

Except doesn't drm(4) enable console framebuffer stuff now? Maybe we
can't do vesa/fbdev or whatever like linux can, but I'm not sure this
answer is still correct.

Thoughts?

- Jean-Philippe