Re: From the military propaganda department
Time to drink a beer and chill out, dude! Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. From: Justin LindbergSent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:01 PMTo: misc@openbsd.orgReply To: Justin LindbergSubject: From the military propaganda department Excuse the Yahoo address. That's the best I can do here in the United States of Amerikkka. How is life in OpenBSD-land? The gummint dont trust me when I use OpenBSD because they don't have a clue what I'm doing when I'm at my computer. Even after they've read my code, and obtained all my passwords via rubber-hose cryptanalysis, and they're sitting at my keyboard staring at the hash prompt, they still don't have a clue what I am doing, and they think the problem can be solved by the more liberal use of rubber hoses. Oh, I was writing a letter to my attorney. But some people consider that to be illegal here in Amerikkka. They don't understand that when I am ready to release my software, I release it, and when it's released, it's released. That is my right under our First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech and of the press. I think it works pretty similarly over there in Canada. When you've tested your code and you are ready, you commit it, and when it's committed, it's committed, and the rest of the team is free to tear it to shreds. The best defense to rubber-hose cryptanalysis is small pieces of lead, saboted and silenced and projected at high speed at anyone and everyone armed with a rubber hose. The Penguins over in Linux-land understand this very well. Do the Pufferfish? Because that's my right, too, under our Second Amendment guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms. So when I'm ready, I fire a shot, and when it's fired, it's fired, and there is no calling it back. And that's why I make dead certain that I am ready before I fire. Even if the U.S. Department of Defense considers computer cryptography to be a munition of war, then the right to use it is still protected, only under the Second Amendment rather than the First. Some communications are private, confidential, classified, or privileged and not obtainable with a warrant, and that is why we use cryptography here in the United States of America.
Re: From the military propaganda department
I wonder why you're all surprised with this duder, after all http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38221244.jpg
Re: From the military propaganda department
Richard Thornton: Not sorry, not a dude, I do not drink alcohol, and I do not associate with people like you. Take your dude problems elsewhere, because I am not interested. OpenBSD is the only reason I am here, and I do not like rubber hoses or the people who try to shove them up my butt. I don't care what Theo thinks, either. It's his operating system, and he can take it or leave it or ignore the spam. And anyone else can use it under the BSD license. That's what he did to NetBSD anyway. I am going to use whatever software I want to use as long as it is legal. Same as anyone else on the mailing list, unless I get B for some reason, in which case I will find a different mailing list. I don't run the show here, so don't act like I do or I am trying to, because I am not. I'm not interesting in forkingan operating system or going back to Net- or FreeBSD, either. I don't like Linux, either, because the kernel is far too bloated, and I don't like all the spyware, adware, and malware that goes along with it. I just use OpenBSD as an operating system. It does not put me in the mood to party, nor, do I think, is it intended to. Yet another defense to rubber-hose cryptanalysis is to slice those rubber hoses to ribbons with a sharp razor, and install a decent burglar alarm with a secure OS. From: Richard Thornton rich...@thornton.net To: zx5...@yahoo.com; misc@openbsd.org Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:51 PM Subject: Re: From the military propaganda department Time to drink a beer and chill out, dude! Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. From: Justin Lindberg Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:01 PM To: misc@openbsd.org Reply To: Justin Lindberg Subject: From the military propaganda department Excuse the Yahoo address. That's the best I can do here in the United States of Amerikkka. How is life in OpenBSD-land? The gummint dont trust me when I use OpenBSD because they don't have a clue what I'm doing when I'm at my computer. Even after they've read my code, and obtained all my passwords via rubber-hose cryptanalysis, and they're sitting at my keyboard staring at the hash prompt, they still don't have a clue what I am doing, and they think the problem can be solved by the more liberal use of rubber hoses. Oh, I was writing a letter to my attorney. But some people consider that to be illegal here in Amerikkka. They don't understand that when I am ready to release my software, I release it, and when it's released, it's released. That is my right under our First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech and of the press. I think it works pretty similarly over there in Canada. When you've tested your code and you are ready, you commit it, and when it's committed, it's committed, and the rest of the team is free to tear it to shreds. The best defense to rubber-hose cryptanalysis is small pieces of lead, saboted and silenced and projected at high speed at anyone and everyone armed with a rubber hose. The Penguins over in Linux-land understand this very well. Do the Pufferfish? Because that's my right, too, under our Second Amendment guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms. So when I'm ready, I fire a shot, and when it's fired, it's fired, and there is no calling it back. And that's why I make dead certain that I am ready before I fire. Even if the U.S. Department of Defense considers computer cryptography to be a munition of war, then the right to use it is still protected, only under the Second Amendment rather than the First. Some communications are private, confidential, classified, or privileged and not obtainable with a warrant, and that is why we use cryptography here in the United States of America.
Re: From the military propaganda department
Not_sure_if_trolling_or_plain_schizo.jpg On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 11:01:45AM -0700, Justin Lindberg wrote: Excuse the Yahoo address. That's the best I can do here in the United States of Amerikkka. How is life in OpenBSD-land? The gummint dont trust me when I use OpenBSD because they don't have a clue what I'm doing when I'm at my computer. Even after they've read my code, and obtained all my passwords via rubber-hose cryptanalysis, and they're sitting at my keyboard staring at the hash prompt, they still don't have a clue what I am doing, and they think the problem can be solved by the more liberal use of rubber hoses. Oh, I was writing a letter to my attorney. But some people consider that to be illegal here in Amerikkka. They don't understand that when I am ready to release my software, I release it, and when it's released, it's released. That is my right under our First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech and of the press. I think it works pretty similarly over there in Canada. When you've tested your code and you are ready, you commit it, and when it's committed, it's committed, and the rest of the team is free to tear it to shreds. The best defense to rubber-hose cryptanalysis is small pieces of lead, saboted and silenced and projected at high speed at anyone and everyone armed with a rubber hose. The Penguins over in Linux-land understand this very well. Do the Pufferfish? Because that's my right, too, under our Second Amendment guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms. So when I'm ready, I fire a shot, and when it's fired, it's fired, and there is no calling it back. And that's why I make dead certain that I am ready before I fire. Even if the U.S. Department of Defense considers computer cryptography to be a munition of war, then the right to use it is still protected, only under the Second Amendment rather than the First. Some communications are private, confidential, classified, or privileged and not obtainable with a warrant, and that is why we use cryptography here in the United States of America.
Re: From the military propaganda department
This ain't a blog nor your personal diary. What's the point and purpose of these rants, really? Saying OpenBSD rules? Sucks? What? /Alexander On 05/28/13 07:14, Justin Lindberg wrote: Richard Thornton: Not sorry, not a dude, I do not drink alcohol, and I do not associate with people like you. Take your dude problems elsewhere, because I am not interested. OpenBSD is the only reason I am here, and I do not like rubber hoses or the people who try to shove them up my butt. I don't care what Theo thinks, either. It's his operating system, and he can take it or leave it or ignore the spam. And anyone else can use it under the BSD license. That's what he did to NetBSD anyway. I am going to use whatever software I want to use as long as it is legal. Same as anyone else on the mailing list, unless I get B for some reason, in which case I will find a different mailing list. I don't run the show here, so don't act like I do or I am trying to, because I am not. I'm not interesting in forkingan operating system or going back to Net- or FreeBSD, either. I don't like Linux, either, because the kernel is far too bloated, and I don't like all the spyware, adware, and malware that goes along with it. I just use OpenBSD as an operating system. It does not put me in the mood to party, nor, do I think, is it intended to. Yet another defense to rubber-hose cryptanalysis is to slice those rubber hoses to ribbons with a sharp razor, and install a decent burglar alarm with a secure OS. From: Richard Thornton rich...@thornton.net To: zx5...@yahoo.com; misc@openbsd.org Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:51 PM Subject: Re: From the military propaganda department Time to drink a beer and chill out, dude! Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. From: Justin Lindberg Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:01 PM To: misc@openbsd.org Reply To: Justin Lindberg Subject: From the military propaganda department Excuse the Yahoo address. That's the best I can do here in the United States of Amerikkka. How is life in OpenBSD-land? The gummint dont trust me when I use OpenBSD because they don't have a clue what I'm doing when I'm at my computer. Even after they've read my code, and obtained all my passwords via rubber-hose cryptanalysis, and they're sitting at my keyboard staring at the hash prompt, they still don't have a clue what I am doing, and they think the problem can be solved by the more liberal use of rubber hoses. Oh, I was writing a letter to my attorney. But some people consider that to be illegal here in Amerikkka. They don't understand that when I am ready to release my software, I release it, and when it's released, it's released. That is my right under our First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech and of the press. I think it works pretty similarly over there in Canada. When you've tested your code and you are ready, you commit it, and when it's committed, it's committed, and the rest of the team is free to tear it to shreds. The best defense to rubber-hose cryptanalysis is small pieces of lead, saboted and silenced and projected at high speed at anyone and everyone armed with a rubber hose. The Penguins over in Linux-land understand this very well. Do the Pufferfish? Because that's my right, too, under our Second Amendment guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms. So when I'm ready, I fire a shot, and when it's fired, it's fired, and there is no calling it back. And that's why I make dead certain that I am ready before I fire. Even if the U.S. Department of Defense considers computer cryptography to be a munition of war, then the right to use it is still protected, only under the Second Amendment rather than the First. Some communications are private, confidential, classified, or privileged and not obtainable with a warrant, and that is why we use cryptography here in the United States of America.
Re: From the military propaganda department
You need to be shot to death. - Original Message - From: Richard Thornton rich...@thornton.net To: Justin Lindberg zx5...@yahoo.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:09 AM Subject: Re: From the military propaganda department If you dont drink, then take a valium
Re: From the military propaganda department
We're honestly giving this guy way too much attention. -- W. Steven Schneider w.steven.schnei...@ualberta.net
Re: From the military propaganda department
Hi. If I understand correctly, this is off topic here, as much as generic hardware or networking issues or whatever. General cryptology and associated legal issues in this sense (again as I understand you) are not specific to OpenBSD being vendor neutral issues. That said I'm all for this discussion. Not to pre-empt others (disregarding the initial negative responses), I think you should be aware there's a valid and consistent case to be made that this might be one of those cases where you'll get little traction. My advice, if this thread doesn't get the traction you like; go elsewhere. Insert quotes from Ben Franklin et al. ... choose your audience. Regardless. While there's a lot of commonality between the US and some of the rest of us, we have constitutions of our own (except england of course). Please don't fall into the trap that any of this stuff is transferrable. That's a point of law and it stands. I don't have freedom of speech, the right to keep and bear arms and so on. FYI, I live in a democracy, not a republic. We're transitive. There's a real world difference. Nevertheless, Aristotle nailed this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modes_of_persuasion Those ideas are somewhat intertwined but you've failed. You've failed on logos - the facts - give some context. Clear context. Why do I or anyone else here care about rights violations? Without that, prima facie this comes off as a rant without relevance ... uname(1) or tread lightly. You've failed on your pathos - my sympathy or empathy - this is why this is definitely in the off topic decisions to be made grey area. I don't see a clear connection between LEO and OpenBSD here. See previous ... uname(1) or tread lightly. You've failed to clarify your ethos - I don't believe you. Your constitution is enough authority but I'm not seeing it presented appropriately. I admire your conjunction of munitions and the second. May I use that? In this case though, open sauce, crypto, second, etcetera are an entirely different issue to the fourth amendment question - protection against unreasonable search and seizure. You've muddied the waters and failed to convince on either account. That's the big deal here. The fourth ... The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated ... http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html#4 First? Sure. Publish, done. Matter of course. No infringements. Right? Second? Sure. Sidebar. Again off topic but trivially interesting. Rubber hose cryptanalysis, the browbeating or otherwise of citizens to gain passwords so DHS inter alia, i.e. Border Patrol, can look at your stuff is strictly a fourth amendment issue (obliquely a fifth). That's where you should be thinking. You live in a common law country with a written constitution - not something to be assumed. There's a trodden path. Stand your ground - no officer ... unless you provide a warrant based on probable cause I won't be giving you my key. Go read the fourth ... The key is standing your ground. Get arrested or worse or combinations of whatever and go from there. To paraphrase a founding father: They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Trees need iron. Blood serves fine. Ask Thomas Jefferson ... Good on you for taking an hour out of your life. Give me something more than a hypothesis of how bad things are happening that might be violations and how people that I care about are affected on the ground ... Get arrested or GTFO ... I'm not Armorican. I read your constitution and your bill of rights and study your law and your country. I've stood up to LEO here. Describe your experience. Light on the hill. Get the fuck up there.
Re: From the military propaganda department
- Original Message - Hi. If I understand correctly, this is off topic here, as much as generic hardware or networking issues or whatever. General cryptology and associated legal issues in this sense (again as I understand you) are not specific to OpenBSD being vendor neutral issues. That said I'm all for this discussion. Not to pre-empt others (disregarding the initial negative responses), I think you should be aware there's a valid and consistent case to be made that this might be one of those cases where you'll get little traction. My advice, if this thread doesn't get the traction you like; go elsewhere. Insert quotes from Ben Franklin et al. ... choose your audience. Regardless. While there's a lot of commonality between the US and some of the rest of us, we have constitutions of our own (except england of course). Please don't fall into the trap that any of this stuff is transferrable. That's a point of law and it stands. I don't have freedom of speech, the right to keep and bear arms and so on. FYI, I live in a democracy, not a republic. We're transitive. There's a real world difference. Nevertheless, Aristotle nailed this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modes_of_persuasion Those ideas are somewhat intertwined but you've failed. You've failed on logos - the facts - give some context. Clear context. Why do I or anyone else here care about rights violations? Without that, prima facie this comes off as a rant without relevance ... uname(1) or tread lightly. You've failed on your pathos - my sympathy or empathy - this is why this is definitely in the off topic decisions to be made grey area. I don't see a clear connection between LEO and OpenBSD here. See previous ... uname(1) or tread lightly. You've failed to clarify your ethos - I don't believe you. Your constitution is enough authority but I'm not seeing it presented appropriately. I admire your conjunction of munitions and the second. May I use that? In this case though, open sauce, crypto, second, etcetera are an entirely different issue to the fourth amendment question - protection against unreasonable search and seizure. You've muddied the waters and failed to convince on either account. That's the big deal here. The fourth ... The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated ... http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html#4 First? Sure. Publish, done. Matter of course. No infringements. Right? Second? Sure. Sidebar. Again off topic but trivially interesting. Rubber hose cryptanalysis, the browbeating or otherwise of citizens to gain passwords so DHS inter alia, i.e. Border Patrol, can look at your stuff is strictly a fourth amendment issue (obliquely a fifth). That's where you should be thinking. You live in a common law country with a written constitution - not something to be assumed. There's a trodden path. Stand your ground - no officer ... unless you provide a warrant based on probable cause I won't be giving you my key. Go read the fourth ... The key is standing your ground. Get arrested or worse or combinations of whatever and go from there. To paraphrase a founding father: They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Trees need iron. Blood serves fine. Ask Thomas Jefferson ... Good on you for taking an hour out of your life. Give me something more than a hypothesis of how bad things are happening that might be violations and how people that I care about are affected on the ground ... Get arrested or GTFO ... I'm not Armorican. I read your constitution and your bill of rights and study your law and your country. I've stood up to LEO here. Describe your experience. Light on the hill. Get the fuck up there. Fantastic points, I'd love to hear more, from both sides. --Tim
Re: From the military propaganda department
Drugs are not good for your brain. Justin Lindberg [zx5...@yahoo.com] wrote: You need to be shot to death. - Original Message - From: Richard Thornton rich...@thornton.net To: Justin Lindberg zx5...@yahoo.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:09 AM Subject: Re: From the military propaganda department If you dont drink, then take a valium
Re: From the military propaganda department
Tim Nelson tnelson () rockbochs ! com Fantastic points, I'd love to hear more, from both sides. I'll blink. This is a big deal ... but it's not specific to OpenBSD and further, this is not news. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis This discussion is pertinent on any forum. Hence here where the focus is tight and anecdotally anti-turbo-legal ... it's bound to be off topic. Still, it's about the fourth and perhaps the fifth but not the first and definitely not the second ... While I don't have the protection afforded by the bill of rights (the US one not the englsh one), the fourth is understood where habeus corpus rules, i.e. those of us in free societies. This is relevant but, ranting about the amendments to a global crowd, while allowed by the first, is hot air. I have no first nor second sir ... So, relevant but poorly phrased. Anything else? Sure. Where we have the rule of law, the plan is to stand up for yourself, in law (i.e. the fourth if that's what you've got) and get some case law under your belt. You've got to stand up for yourself ... Everything else is hot air or text (i.e. hot air). The US is the light on the hill. Stand up for yourself. Use the law. The constitution if that's all you've got. Talking about it is one thing. DHS told me I had to hand over my password and I did ... I'm angry they violated my rights. That's neither precedent nor threadworthy.
Re: From the military propaganda department
Talking about current issues, whether for you or others, is useful. But for me, ultimately I am only concerned with how these things effect myself and any family and important friends. But what have you actually done, besides talk? Want to talk about OpenBSD? When Theo had a problem with NetBSD, he left and founded OpenBSD. He did something. When I found Windows and Linux to suck, I joined OpenBSD a user. I even do a little bit of contributing to ports. Not a lot but some. That is what I am doing. Many years ago, when I found myself undervalued as an employee, instead of whining. I left, starting my own business. As one friend said to me later, Chris, you jumped off the boat into the middle of the ocean and you can't even swim! But I didn't sink either. That is what I did. When I found myself not getting paid on time as a subcontractor for big companies, I didn't complain, I left. I started working directly for the general public. No more problems with getting paid on time and the work was more interesting. Once again I did something. Now I find myself deeply concerned about the economic and abusive behaviour of both the government policies and corporate methods. Crying over my beer won't do anything useful, will it? So now, I am setting up foreign addresses for myself and my father in Guatemala and Mexico. I am also planning on opening small branches of my business in both countries. This will allow me the freedom to make a choice in the future as needed. It will also, right now, give my father a home where his pensions are big enough to live well. Well, I am busy DOING things. You?? Please go DO something. We got your message. Now close you mouth and get on with DOING your own things quietly. If you are this concerned about these issues, then you sure as hell better spend your time DOING something for yourself. As a side note: There is no such thing as a Government. That is just a model. There are only people who individually decide to do things. If you want to change the way these things are done, you will need to directly deal with this group of people, AS PEOPLE, not as some mythical magic word such as the all powerful government.
From the military propaganda department
Excuse the Yahoo address. That's the best I can do here in the United States of Amerikkka. How is life in OpenBSD-land? The gummint dont trust me when I use OpenBSD because they don't have a clue what I'm doing when I'm at my computer. Even after they've read my code, and obtained all my passwords via rubber-hose cryptanalysis, and they're sitting at my keyboard staring at the hash prompt, they still don't have a clue what I am doing, and they think the problem can be solved by the more liberal use of rubber hoses. Oh, I was writing a letter to my attorney. But some people consider that to be illegal here in Amerikkka. They don't understand that when I am ready to release my software, I release it, and when it's released, it's released. That is my right under our First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech and of the press. I think it works pretty similarly over there in Canada. When you've tested your code and you are ready, you commit it, and when it's committed, it's committed, and the rest of the team is free to tear it to shreds. The best defense to rubber-hose cryptanalysis is small pieces of lead, saboted and silenced and projected at high speed at anyone and everyone armed with a rubber hose. The Penguins over in Linux-land understand this very well. Do the Pufferfish? Because that's my right, too, under our Second Amendment guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms. So when I'm ready, I fire a shot, and when it's fired, it's fired, and there is no calling it back. And that's why I make dead certain that I am ready before I fire. Even if the U.S. Department of Defense considers computer cryptography to be a munition of war, then the right to use it is still protected, only under the Second Amendment rather than the First. Some communications are private, confidential, classified, or privileged and not obtainable with a warrant, and that is why we use cryptography here in the United States of America.
