Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-06 Thread Tomasz Rola
On Sat, Jul 06, 2019 at 07:56:10PM +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote: [...] > machine, two of which killed more than six hundred people, before > someone turned the switch. As for now, there was a way to stop it. I have rechecked and the number of fatalities was 189 and 157, totaling 346 people. Please

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-06 Thread Tomasz Rola
On Fri, Jul 05, 2019 at 09:49:02PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > Stuart Longland wrote: [...] > > > Basically your best bet: don't rely on a single vendor. It's harder for > > them to hide their espionage then as one vendor won't know how to hide > > another vendor's dirty deeds. > >

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-06 Thread ropers
On 06/07/2019, Theo de Raadt wrote: > Precisely. Most of the risks are in the bugs, and if you hit a problem > you'll be Dennis Muilenburg saying you didn't know (that phrase works > one way today, but if in the next few days he leaves his position, it > will work a different way). The unknown

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-06 Thread Patrick Dohman
> On Jul 5, 2019, at 10:49 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > So this is misc, which is full of lots of talk about nothing, by people > who can't change the ecosystem. Having worried vocally about this > before, I know I can't change it. Pretty sad to see people who are even > less capable find

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-05 Thread Theo de Raadt
Stuart Longland wrote: > On 2/7/19 5:43 pm, John Long wrote: > >> What do you think and do when using OpenBSD on this kind of hardware? > > Lemote boxes are kinda neat but they're not the fastest in the world. > > It beats the hell out of the alternatives if you can live with the > >

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-05 Thread Stuart Longland
On 2/7/19 5:43 pm, John Long wrote: >> What do you think and do when using OpenBSD on this kind of hardware? > Lemote boxes are kinda neat but they're not the fastest in the world. > It beats the hell out of the alternatives if you can live with the > limitations. Gentoo was donated two Lemote

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-04 Thread ropers
On 04/07/2019, cho...@jtan.com wrote: > ropers writes: >> ::I put on my robe and tinfoil hat.:: > >> ... Wow. The things you guys come up with ... > > I mean yeah, I guess, in theory maybe? > > Of course in order to achieve this level of evil you need highly competent > governments and

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-03 Thread chohag
ropers writes: > ::I put on my robe and tinfoil hat.:: > ... Wow. The things you guys come up with ... I mean yeah, I guess, in theory maybe? Of course in order to achieve this level of evil you need highly competent governments and corporations but that's no problem right? Matthew

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-03 Thread ropers
::I put on my robe and tinfoil hat.:: What keeps me awake at night is the thought of code running on things we traditionally don't even think of as having CPUs, like on SSDs, on the integrated device electronics of SATA disks for example. Or on the CPU inside your CPU, like the Minix computer

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-03 Thread Brian Brombacher
Mihai, Do you want to protest companies by not buying their equipment? That is the only feasible outcome from this conversation. The other outcome would be you want advice on what models will work on OpenBSD. -Brian > On Jul 3, 2019, at 12:11 PM, Zack Lofgren wrote: > > Mihai, > > It

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-03 Thread Zack Lofgren
Mihai, It depends on your threat model. You can’t absolutely trust any hardware because of low level firmware. However, that doesn’t matter if your threat model is low enough then that doesn’t matter. Are you an enemy of the state? If so, you probably shouldn’t trust any technology. If you’re

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-03 Thread Mihai Popescu
... I asked for an answer more like "avoid using nVidia chipsets", not for theories. So, again, do you consider brands when choosing hardware, like Dell vs. Lenovo, etc. ? Thank you.

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-03 Thread Raul Miller
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from noise, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem Thanks, -- Raul On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:30 PM Brian Brombacher wrote: > > Oh and if the implant is smart, it’ll detect you’re trying to find it and go >

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-02 Thread Brian Brombacher
I’m fine with hardware implants snooping on me. But if I was a CISO for a huge company, I might go the extra mile to care about said implants. I’ll continue living carefree. > On Jul 2, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Nathan Hartman wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:28 PM Brian Brombacher > wrote: >

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-02 Thread Nathan Hartman
On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:28 PM Brian Brombacher wrote: > Oh and if the implant is smart, it’ll detect you’re trying to find it and > go dormant. > > Even more good luck! Well then the solution is obvious. Design your own hardware. Or learn to live off the land.

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-02 Thread Brian Brombacher
Oh and if the implant is smart, it’ll detect you’re trying to find it and go dormant. Even more good luck! > On Jul 2, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Brian Brombacher wrote: > > Hardware implants go beyond just sending packets out your network card. They > have transceivers that let agents control or

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-02 Thread Brian Brombacher
Hardware implants go beyond just sending packets out your network card. They have transceivers that let agents control or snoop the device from a distance using RF. You need to scan the hardware with RF equipment to be sure. Good luck! > On Jul 2, 2019, at 12:27 PM, Misc User wrote: > >>

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-02 Thread Misc User
On 7/2/2019 12:43 AM, John Long wrote: On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 10:07:59 +0300 Mihai Popescu wrote: Hello, I keep finding articles about some government bans against some hardware manufacturers related to some backdoor for espionage. I know this is an old talk. Most China manufacturers are under

Re: OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-02 Thread John Long
On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 10:07:59 +0300 Mihai Popescu wrote: > Hello, > > I keep finding articles about some government bans against some > hardware manufacturers related to some backdoor for espionage. I know > this is an old talk. Most China manufacturers are under the search: > Huawei, ZTE,

OT: hardware war with manufacturers (espionage claims)

2019-07-02 Thread Mihai Popescu
Hello, I keep finding articles about some government bans against some hardware manufacturers related to some backdoor for espionage. I know this is an old talk. Most China manufacturers are under the search: Huawei, ZTE, Lenovo, etc. What do you think and do when using OpenBSD on this kind of