Re: What are the operating systems that ship without blobs?
Em sáb, 13 de abr de 2019 20:36, Leonid Bobrov escreveu: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 01:12:06PM -0300, Quantum Robin wrote: > > Em sáb, 13 de abr de 2019 04:23, Chris Bennett < > > cpb_m...@bennettconstruction.us> escreveu: > > > > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 01:55:21AM -0300, Quantum Robin wrote: > > > > Are there operating > > > > systems that ship without blobs? > > > > > > > > If yes, what are the operating > > > > systems that ship without blobs? > > > > > > OpenBSD does not ship with blobs. Ever. > > > That was a major theme s number of years ago. > > > > > > Firmware is not considered a blob since this is strictly hardware > > > related code. No firmware, device won't work. > > > > > > Nvidia is an excellent example of a company 100% hostile to Open Source > > > code. They refuse to release anything needed to even allow someone to > > > write the necessary firmware/software. > > > > > > So, anything that fully supports Nvidia is running proprietary secret > > > blobs. Yuck. These blobs may be harmless, but who knows? > > > > > > So if you are shopping for an OS, you can put a checkmark for OpenBSD > in > > > the no blobs list. > > > > > > Beyond that, the list may or may not want to discuss other OS's. > > > Probably not. > > > > > > Since this topic has come up and it's personally useful to me to reply > > > elsewhere about security elsewhere right now, could someone reply to > > > both of us off-list about this topic? > > > > > > Otherwise, we are getting into other OS junk that IMHO is not > > > appropriate here. > > > > > > Chris Bennett > > > > > > > In the past, Theo de Raadt said: > > > > "3. mail from Theo, 12.03.2007 03:00: > > > > Did you even think about the fact that there are only two operating > systems > > that ship without blobs? > > > > OpenBSD > > > > Debian (and derived systems)" > > > > Why Theo de Raadt said in past here in misc openbsd that was fact that > > existed only two operating systems that did ship without blobs if is > truth > > that this is a list for OpenBSD, not op systems in general? > > > > > > > Theo missed GNU/Linux-libre distros recommended by FSF, they don't > include blobs and non-free firmware. Also GNU/Hurd has no blobs and > no non-free firmware, right? > Leonid Bobrov, Do Theo de Raadt agree with you that he missed GNU/Linux-libre distros recommended by FSF don't include blobs and non-free firmware and that GNU/Hurd has no blobs and no non-free firmware? Theo de Raadt, Do you agree with Leonid Bobrov that GNU/Linux-libre distros recommended by FSF don't include blobs and non-free firmware and that GNU/Hurd has no blobs and no non-free firmware? If not, why you do not agree with Leonid Bobrov that GNU/Linux-libre distros recommended by FSF don't include blobs and non-free firmware and that GNU/Hurd has no blobs and no non-free firmware? >
Re: What are the operating systems that ship without blobs?
On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 01:12:06PM -0300, Quantum Robin wrote: > Em sáb, 13 de abr de 2019 04:23, Chris Bennett < > cpb_m...@bennettconstruction.us> escreveu: > > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 01:55:21AM -0300, Quantum Robin wrote: > > > Are there operating > > > systems that ship without blobs? > > > > > > If yes, what are the operating > > > systems that ship without blobs? > > > > OpenBSD does not ship with blobs. Ever. > > That was a major theme s number of years ago. > > > > Firmware is not considered a blob since this is strictly hardware > > related code. No firmware, device won't work. > > > > Nvidia is an excellent example of a company 100% hostile to Open Source > > code. They refuse to release anything needed to even allow someone to > > write the necessary firmware/software. > > > > So, anything that fully supports Nvidia is running proprietary secret > > blobs. Yuck. These blobs may be harmless, but who knows? > > > > So if you are shopping for an OS, you can put a checkmark for OpenBSD in > > the no blobs list. > > > > Beyond that, the list may or may not want to discuss other OS's. > > Probably not. > > > > Since this topic has come up and it's personally useful to me to reply > > elsewhere about security elsewhere right now, could someone reply to > > both of us off-list about this topic? > > > > Otherwise, we are getting into other OS junk that IMHO is not > > appropriate here. > > > > Chris Bennett > > > > In the past, Theo de Raadt said: > > "3. mail from Theo, 12.03.2007 03:00: > > Did you even think about the fact that there are only two operating systems > that ship without blobs? > > OpenBSD > > Debian (and derived systems)" > > Why Theo de Raadt said in past here in misc openbsd that was fact that > existed only two operating systems that did ship without blobs if is truth > that this is a list for OpenBSD, not op systems in general? > > > Theo missed GNU/Linux-libre distros recommended by FSF, they don't include blobs and non-free firmware. Also GNU/Hurd has no blobs and no non-free firmware, right?
Re: What are the operating systems that ship without blobs?
Em sáb, 13 de abr de 2019 04:23, Chris Bennett < cpb_m...@bennettconstruction.us> escreveu: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 01:55:21AM -0300, Quantum Robin wrote: > > Are there operating > > systems that ship without blobs? > > > > If yes, what are the operating > > systems that ship without blobs? > > OpenBSD does not ship with blobs. Ever. > That was a major theme s number of years ago. > > Firmware is not considered a blob since this is strictly hardware > related code. No firmware, device won't work. > > Nvidia is an excellent example of a company 100% hostile to Open Source > code. They refuse to release anything needed to even allow someone to > write the necessary firmware/software. > > So, anything that fully supports Nvidia is running proprietary secret > blobs. Yuck. These blobs may be harmless, but who knows? > > So if you are shopping for an OS, you can put a checkmark for OpenBSD in > the no blobs list. > > Beyond that, the list may or may not want to discuss other OS's. > Probably not. > > Since this topic has come up and it's personally useful to me to reply > elsewhere about security elsewhere right now, could someone reply to > both of us off-list about this topic? > > Otherwise, we are getting into other OS junk that IMHO is not > appropriate here. > > Chris Bennett > In the past, Theo de Raadt said: "3. mail from Theo, 12.03.2007 03:00: Did you even think about the fact that there are only two operating systems that ship without blobs? OpenBSD Debian (and derived systems)" Why Theo de Raadt said in past here in misc openbsd that was fact that existed only two operating systems that did ship without blobs if is truth that this is a list for OpenBSD, not op systems in general? >
Re: What are the operating systems that ship without blobs?
Le 13/04/2019 à 09:23, Chris Bennett a écrit : > On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 01:55:21AM -0300, Quantum Robin wrote: >> Are there operating >> systems that ship without blobs? >> >> If yes, what are the operating >> systems that ship without blobs? > OpenBSD does not ship with blobs. Ever. > That was a major theme s number of years ago. > > Firmware is not considered a blob since this is strictly hardware > related code. No firmware, device won't work. > > Nvidia is an excellent example of a company 100% hostile to Open Source > code. They refuse to release anything needed to even allow someone to > write the necessary firmware/software. > > So, anything that fully supports Nvidia is running proprietary secret > blobs. Yuck. These blobs may be harmless, but who knows? > > So if you are shopping for an OS, you can put a checkmark for OpenBSD in > the no blobs list. > > Beyond that, the list may or may not want to discuss other OS's. > Probably not. > > Since this topic has come up and it's personally useful to me to reply > elsewhere about security elsewhere right now, could someone reply to > both of us off-list about this topic? > > Otherwise, we are getting into other OS junk that IMHO is not > appropriate here. > > Chris Bennett > > > Another approach towards a totally free system is to choose hardware that does not need blobs and/or non-free firmware. I am using a ThinkPad X200 where even the bios is free (Libreboot -- a de-blobbed version of Coreboot). OpenBSD runs very well on this system. It is quite old (2008), but adding up to 8 GB RAM and an SSD made it more than good enough. I am retired now, so I don't need a super-duper system for work, but even for that it could be usable. I am writing a lot and it is perfect... Cheers, Oddmund Garvik
Re: What are the operating systems that ship without blobs?
On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 01:55:21AM -0300, Quantum Robin wrote: > Are there operating > systems that ship without blobs? > > If yes, what are the operating > systems that ship without blobs? OpenBSD does not ship with blobs. Ever. That was a major theme s number of years ago. Firmware is not considered a blob since this is strictly hardware related code. No firmware, device won't work. Nvidia is an excellent example of a company 100% hostile to Open Source code. They refuse to release anything needed to even allow someone to write the necessary firmware/software. So, anything that fully supports Nvidia is running proprietary secret blobs. Yuck. These blobs may be harmless, but who knows? So if you are shopping for an OS, you can put a checkmark for OpenBSD in the no blobs list. Beyond that, the list may or may not want to discuss other OS's. Probably not. Since this topic has come up and it's personally useful to me to reply elsewhere about security elsewhere right now, could someone reply to both of us off-list about this topic? Otherwise, we are getting into other OS junk that IMHO is not appropriate here. Chris Bennett
What are the operating systems that ship without blobs?
Are there operating systems that ship without blobs? If yes, what are the operating systems that ship without blobs?
