Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-22 Thread Benjamin Bennett
Hi all! I read http://openbsd.org/security.html (and stable.html), but could not make sure about my question. If today I download old versions (say /pub/OpenBSD/4.0/i386/cd40.iso) of openbsd, does it already includes the fixes listed in http://openbsd.org/security.html#40 (or #41)?

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-20 Thread Geoff Steckel
Artur Grabowski wrote: Geoff Steckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any argument to experience must be from similar actual implementations using threads and another model, such as multiple processes with interprocess communications. Sure. I'll pick up the challenge. At work we have a server that

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-20 Thread Douglas A. Tutty
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 10:14:14AM +0100, Artur Grabowski wrote: Geoff Steckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any argument to experience must be from similar actual implementations using threads and another model, such as multiple processes with interprocess communications. Sure. I'll pick

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-20 Thread Ted Unangst
On Feb 20, 2008 5:48 AM, Douglas A. Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While this kind of setup is well beyond my pay-grade, looking just at the issue of, in effect, using threads to share a cache to avoid hitting the disk, I wonder why using a memory filesystem as the common cache wouldn't work.

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-19 Thread chris rapier
I wonder where the perceived bottleneck is. I mean, you have two boxes connected by ethernet (whatever speed), and you're running a sftp bulk file transfer. What is the limiting factor? Are the boxes less than 20% idle? Is the nework saturated or is there room for more throughput? Much of

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-19 Thread bofh
On Feb 19, 2008 9:30 AM, chris rapier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder where the perceived bottleneck is. I mean, you have two boxes connected by ethernet (whatever speed), and you're running a sftp bulk file transfer. What is the limiting factor? Are the boxes less than 20% idle? Is

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-18 Thread Chris Rapier
Hi, since I'm the one that started all of this I thought I would take a moment to say a couple of words. As Ben said - we aren't wedded to the idea of threads. They were a useful path to take in order to prove the usefulness of some sort of parallelization in OpenSSH. I think we've proved its

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-18 Thread Douglas A. Tutty
On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 04:22:42PM -0500, Chris Rapier wrote: As Ben said - we aren't wedded to the idea of threads. They were a useful path to take in order to prove the usefulness of some sort of parallelization in OpenSSH. I think we've proved its usefulness (and believe it or not, a lot

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-18 Thread chefren
On 2/19/08 2:04 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: I wonder where the perceived bottleneck is. I mean, you have two boxes connected by ethernet (whatever speed), and you're running a sftp bulk file transfer. What is the limiting factor? Are the boxes less than 20% idle? Is the nework saturated or

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread Gregg Reynolds
On 2/17/08, Marc Balmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geoff Steckel wrote: Threads or any other form of uncontrolled resource sharing are very bad ideas. that might be true for those that don't understand threads. for other it can be highly benefitial. Indeed, threads are bad strikes me as

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread Brian
--- Marco Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to run more of the same you fork. Threads usefulness are limited in scope. Threads dangers are endless. Nonetheless there are good reasons for threading; just not as many as people give it credit for. Ssh is not one of those use

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread Geoff Steckel
Gregg Reynolds wrote: On 2/17/08, Marc Balmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geoff Steckel wrote: Threads or any other form of uncontrolled resource sharing are very bad ideas. that might be true for those that don't understand threads. for other it can be highly benefitial. Indeed, threads are

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread Marco Peereboom
If you want to run more of the same you fork. Threads usefulness are limited in scope. Threads dangers are endless. Nonetheless there are good reasons for threading; just not as many as people give it credit for. Ssh is not one of those use cases where threading is important. On Sun, Feb 17,

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread David Higgs
On Feb 17, 2008 8:01 PM, Geoff Steckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg Reynolds wrote: On 2/17/08, Marc Balmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geoff Steckel wrote: Threads or any other form of uncontrolled resource sharing are very bad ideas. that might be true for those that don't understand

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread Geoff Steckel
David Higgs wrote: On Feb 17, 2008 8:01 PM, Geoff Steckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg Reynolds wrote: On 2/17/08, Marc Balmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geoff Steckel wrote: Threads or any other form of uncontrolled resource sharing are very bad ideas. that might be true for those that

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread Reid Nichol
--- Geoff Steckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: threads is a particular programming model of multiple execution contexts in a (mostly) shared memory and (mostly) shared resource environment which is not cost-effective for producing reliable software. Only because people design threaded programs

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread Daniel Hagerty
Geoff Steckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: threads is a particular programming model of multiple execution contexts in a (mostly) shared memory and (mostly) shared resource environment which is not cost-effective for producing reliable software. Are you really unable to see the irony in

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread David Higgs
On Feb 17, 2008 11:16 PM, Geoff Steckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Higgs wrote: Assuming that a software program is not system-critical or requires high security, and it benefits greatly from a shared memory/resource model, I fail to see why threading can not be cost-effective. May I

Re: take threads off the table

2008-02-17 Thread Marc Balmer
Marco Peereboom wrote: If you want to run more of the same you fork. Threads usefulness are limited in scope. Threads dangers are endless. Nonetheless there are good reasons for threading; just not as many as people give it credit for. Ssh is not one of those use cases where threading is