Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Brad Tilley wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:45 PM, John Cosimano j...@cosmicnetworks.net wrote: One thing that screen got right is the A key. It's a lot closer to Ctrl than B. So far, key proximity has been my only annoyance. I'm guessing that can be customized. I resisted to C-b until now, but finally changed to C-a. Yes, it's easier. Cheers, -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 09:54:20PM -0400, Nick Holland wrote: William Boshuck wrote: The man page is typically excellent, so you can learn au besoin on the fly. May I also suggest the FAQ article written by tmux author Nicholas Marriott? http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#tmux A really great page. Thanks.
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 07:22:27AM +0200, Matthias Kilian wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:00:28PM -0700, patrick keshishian wrote: Funny, I always disliked CTRL-A being taken by screen, since it was so handy to go back to the beginning of the command line in ksh. But then, I make a lot of typing errors at the beginning of command lines, I guess. :) I agree. C-a always annoyed me in screen for the same reason as you bring up: positioning to the beginning of the shell command. C-b is almost as annoying in vi when i want to page up ;) ... Some people should really give vi-mode in ksh a try ;-) As a vi user I can't deal with it The reason being that you have to use j k to go up and down in the history. Life would be bliss if one could reassign the arrow keys. Ciao, Kili
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 07:22:27AM +0200, Matthias Kilian wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:00:28PM -0700, patrick keshishian wrote: Funny, I always disliked CTRL-A being taken by screen, since it was so handy to go back to the beginning of the command line in ksh. But then, I make a lot of typing errors at the beginning of command lines, I guess. :) I agree. C-a always annoyed me in screen for the same reason as you bring up: positioning to the beginning of the shell command. C-b is almost as annoying in vi when i want to page up ;) ... Some people should really give vi-mode in ksh a try ;-) Yes, and then ` makes a nice prefix on a sun keyboard (mirror image of Esc and easy to slap twice).
Re: thanks for 4.6!
Hi misc, I'd like to share a few images with you. You'll probably go WTF? at first, but bear with with me, it's going to become clear in the end: 1. This is the entrance to my flat: http://imgur.com/C7XN7.jpg 2. This is my vehicle: http://imgur.com/o0FDH.jpg 3. This is my couch: http://imgur.com/QXpgB.jpg It's really a lilo that's folded and tied down in place, on top of corrugated cardboard boxes, and covered with a blanket. 4. This is some more of my furniture: http://imgur.com/Nwg9m.jpg 5. This is my portable music player: http://imgur.com/f1uzB.jpg 6. This is my best monitor: http://imgur.com/hZQj6.jpg After turning it on, you often have to smack the top of it, otherwise the image will not display correctly. 7. This is my firewall: http://imgur.com/mvhuM.jpg Yes, those are ISA slots. 8. This is my laptop. My *only* laptop: http://imgur.com/Tu1Ft.jpg 9. And *THIS* is my very own, brand spankin new OpenBSD 4.6 CD set: http://imgur.com/YIEh7.jpg *HELL YEAH!* (I especially like the evolution poster. First thing I'm doing is scanning that and printing it out much bigger.) Thank you! :) Thank you -- even though I personally can't wait for wearable computing and head-mounted displays to become widely available. :) Also, I'm actually quite fond of massive, outdated computer circuitry. :-P But I guess there's a difference between Turing-complete *computers* and DRM and blob-infested *computing appliances* that wipe your ass and smack it too if you dare to want something that the usual RICOs don't like. Thanks and regards, --ropers
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:01:47AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 07:22:27AM +0200, Matthias Kilian wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:00:28PM -0700, patrick keshishian wrote: Funny, I always disliked CTRL-A being taken by screen, since it was so handy to go back to the beginning of the command line in ksh. But then, I make a lot of typing errors at the beginning of command lines, I guess. :) I agree. C-a always annoyed me in screen for the same reason as you bring up: positioning to the beginning of the shell command. C-b is almost as annoying in vi when i want to page up ;) ... Some people should really give vi-mode in ksh a try ;-) As a vi user I can't deal with it The reason being that you have to use j k to go up and down in the history. Life would be bliss if one could reassign the arrow keys. Weird, its that which I miss most when I get to an unconfigured shell. First thing is shoot set -o vi and enjoy. And before you shout dvorak, I also used this on qwerty-days :-)
Re: thanks for 4.6!
dvorak is make belief benefit. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:19:43PM +0300, Paul Irofti wrote: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:01:47AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 07:22:27AM +0200, Matthias Kilian wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:00:28PM -0700, patrick keshishian wrote: Funny, I always disliked CTRL-A being taken by screen, since it was so handy to go back to the beginning of the command line in ksh. But then, I make a lot of typing errors at the beginning of command lines, I guess. :) I agree. C-a always annoyed me in screen for the same reason as you bring up: positioning to the beginning of the shell command. C-b is almost as annoying in vi when i want to page up ;) ... Some people should really give vi-mode in ksh a try ;-) As a vi user I can't deal with it The reason being that you have to use j k to go up and down in the history. Life would be bliss if one could reassign the arrow keys. Weird, its that which I miss most when I get to an unconfigured shell. First thing is shoot set -o vi and enjoy. And before you shout dvorak, I also used this on qwerty-days :-)
Re: thanks for 4.6!
dvorak is make belief benefit. Tell that to my hands tendinitis... but maybe you're not writing enough code for your hands to suffer, Marco. And `j' and `k' are next to each other on dvorak keyboards anyway. Miod
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:01:47AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote: Some people should really give vi-mode in ksh a try ;-) As a vi user I can't deal with it The reason being that you have to use j k to go up and down in the history. Life would be bliss if one could reassign the arrow keys. I'll put it on my ksh TODO list, which now consists of two entries: 1 cleanup and finish my 64 bit arithmetics diff (yes, i'm a hopeless case of a slacker) 2 enable arrow keys in vi-mode Ciao, Kili
Re: thanks for 4.6!
if i may... 3. Make history be local to the term first (for n entries) before searching/using the global index. On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:37:56AM +0200, Matthias Kilian wrote: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:01:47AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote: Some people should really give vi-mode in ksh a try ;-) As a vi user I can't deal with it The reason being that you have to use j k to go up and down in the history. Life would be bliss if one could reassign the arrow keys. I'll put it on my ksh TODO list, which now consists of two entries: 1 cleanup and finish my 64 bit arithmetics diff (yes, i'm a hopeless case of a slacker) 2 enable arrow keys in vi-mode Ciao, Kili
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:04:53PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: dvorak is make belief benefit. Tell that to my hands tendinitis... but maybe you're not writing enough code for your hands to suffer, Marco. And `j' and `k' are next to each other on dvorak keyboards anyway. miod++ I don't use it for gaining more speed or whatever the usual keyboard/editors/os/religion/etc stupid wars are all about. I'm using it for _my_ _own_ confort which _for_ _me_ has been quite visible since I switched. But have no fear, kili will rescue your arrows so that you can stretch and twitch your fingers even more :-)
Re: thanks for 4.6!
Marco Peereboom wrote: dvorak is make belief benefit. It's debatable whether the Dvorak layout is any faster, but what is not in doubt is the reduction in key travel. Not only are the frequently used keys closer together but the keyboard is also arranged so that alternate hands are used to type subsequent letters. The only disadvantages are if you're left handed (in the standard layout more emphasis is placed on the right hand), and that even official Dvorak keyboards and layouts within operating systems do not use Dvorak's original number layout. I started with software remapping of a standard keyboard and now use a hard wired 'Dvorak UK' buckling spring keyboard from Unicomp. It's a lovely piece of kit, albeit lighter than the IBM Model M and not exactly cheap on shipping. I can't say whether the Dvorak number layout is an improvement because I never bothered learning that part (neither can I properly touchtype on the number pad on QWERTY), but the standard keyboard layout is lovely to use and feels much better in operation, never mind the likely reduction in RSI. It's a bit of a pain in the arse in vi or Wordstar/joe, though.. PK
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:37:31PM +0100, Peter wrote: It's debatable whether the Dvorak layout is any faster, but what is not in doubt is the reduction in key travel. you're not a pianist
Re: thanks for 4.6!
Matthias Kilian wrote: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:37:31PM +0100, Peter wrote: It's debatable whether the Dvorak layout is any faster, but what is not in doubt is the reduction in key travel. you're not a pianist OK. Finger travel, not key travel. Happy? PK
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:37:31PM +0100, Peter wrote: Marco Peereboom wrote: dvorak is make belief benefit. The only disadvantages are if you're left handed (in the standard layout more emphasis is placed on the right hand), and that even official Dvorak keyboards and layouts within operating systems do not use Dvorak's original number layout. You can also use the single left hand version of dvorak... it's still faster (and a lot more pleasant) than qwerty (using both hands). -- DISCLAIMER: http://goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/ This message will self-destruct in 3 seconds.
Re: thanks for 4.6!
2009/10/23 ropers rop...@gmail.com: I'd like to share a few images with you. Well if a picture worth 1024 words... Then I got a video for you!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i71bLCtDKzk If you don't like flash plugin: curl http://v20.lscache7.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?ip=0.0.0.0sparams=id%2Cexpi re%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Calgorithm%2Cburst%2Cfactorfexp=905700%2C900031alg orithm=throttle-factoritag=22ipbits=0signature=C61C80608E1A7EC812C02E92B98 C81BE64F2320B.CA1663F7340A6730BA2575257A9A49CB34A2CB6Fsver=3expire=12562848 00key=yt1factor=1.25burst=40id=8bbd5b2c2b432b39 -o openbsd46.mp4
thanks for 4.6!
received my pre-order about the same time as others. just upgraded 3 machines (from 4.5) in less than 90 minutes. my machines aren't super-customized, so sysmerge(8) works like a dream for me. i de-installed screen(1) and will start using tmux(1), as it's in base. thanks for the effort of doing that---screen was always among the very first packages i installed on a virgin system. currently these machines don't handle any mail, but in the coming months, at least one will be so i look forward to exercising smtpd(8) a bit. grazie mille!
Re: thanks for 4.6!
de-installed screen(1) and will start using tmux(1), as it's in base. thanks for the effort of doing that---screen was always among the very first packages i installed on a virgin system. Same here. For the tmux newbies rather than the Ctrl+A keys use Ctrl+B otherwise, the syntax of tmux is very similar to screen. Nice to have it in the base OS. Brad
Re: thanks for 4.6!
--- Brad Tilley [Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 01:16:23PM -0400]: --- de-installed screen(1) and will start using tmux(1), as it's in base. thanks for the effort of doing that---screen was always among the very first packages i installed on a virgin system. Same here. For the tmux newbies rather than the Ctrl+A keys use Ctrl+B otherwise, the syntax of tmux is very similar to screen. Nice to have it in the base OS. i seem to remember a thread here on misc@ that was meant to be a tmux guide for experienced screen users. haven't dug that up yet, as i'm not sure if i'm better off starting anew or trying to make this as much like screen as i possibly can. leaning toward a forklift upgrade of my terminal multiplexing skills.
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:45 PM, John Cosimano j...@cosmicnetworks.net wrote: i seem to remember a thread here on misc@ that was meant to be a tmux guide for experienced screen users. One thing that screen got right is the A key. It's a lot closer to Ctrl than B. So far, key proximity has been my only annoyance. I'm guessing that can be customized.
Re: thanks for 4.6!
--- Brad Tilley [Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 02:52:10PM -0400]: --- On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:45 PM, John Cosimano j...@cosmicnetworks.net wrote: i seem to remember a thread here on misc@ that was meant to be a tmux guide for experienced screen users. One thing that screen got right is the A key. It's a lot closer to Ctrl than B. *especially* if you have a proper keyboard with the ctrl key in the right location, ie, directly left of the `a'. just got ahold of a Sun Type 6 USB kbd and loving it.
Re: thanks for 4.6!
Brad Tilley wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:45 PM, John Cosimano j...@cosmicnetworks.net wrote: i seem to remember a thread here on misc@ that was meant to be a tmux guide for experienced screen users. One thing that screen got right is the A key. It's a lot closer to Ctrl than B. So far, key proximity has been my only annoyance. I'm guessing that can be customized. Try this for inspiration: set -g default-command zsh set -g status-right #(statusbar_right) # Statusbar properties. set -g display-time 3000 set -g status-bg black set -g status-fg cyan set-window-option -g window-status-current-attr bright,reverse set-window-option -g window-status-current-bg cyan set-window-option -g window-status-current-fg black # Use c-t instead of c-b as the prefix unbind C-b set -g prefix C-t bind C-t send-prefix bind t send-prefix # Bind function keys. bind -n F1 select-window -t 1 bind -n F2 select-window -t 2 bind -n F3 select-window -t 3 bind -n F4 select-window -t 4 bind -n F5 select-window -t 5 bind -n F6 select-window -t 6 bind -n F7 select-window -t 7 bind -n F8 select-window -t 8 # All new windows started at startup. new emacs --daemon neww irssi neww mutt neww neww neww neww neww select-window -t 1 # Han
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 01:45:41PM -0400, John Cosimano wrote: --- Brad Tilley [Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 01:16:23PM -0400]: --- de-installed screen(1) and will start using tmux(1), as it's in base. thanks for the effort of doing that---screen was always among the very first packages i installed on a virgin system. Same here. For the tmux newbies rather than the Ctrl+A keys use Ctrl+B otherwise, the syntax of tmux is very similar to screen. Nice to have it in the base OS. i seem to remember a thread here on misc@ that was meant to be a tmux guide for experienced screen users. haven't dug that up yet, as i'm not sure if i'm better off starting anew I'd recommend starting anew. tmux works differently from screen in ways you can use to your advantage, it's been better than screen for a while, and it is always improving. The man page is typically excellent, so you can learn au besoin on the fly. -wb
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, John Cosimano wrote: received my pre-order about the same time as others. just upgraded 3 machines (from 4.5) in less than 90 minutes. my machines aren't super-customized, so sysmerge(8) works like a dream for me. i de-installed screen(1) and will start using tmux(1), as it's in base. thanks for the effort of doing that---screen was always among the very first packages i installed on a virgin system. tmux just rocks. I missed it A LOT in machines with 4.5 or earlier. Cheers, -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \
Re: thanks for 4.6!
John Cosimano wrote: --- Brad Tilley [Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 02:52:10PM -0400]: --- On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:45 PM, John Cosimano j...@cosmicnetworks.net wrote: i seem to remember a thread here on misc@ that was meant to be a tmux guide for experienced screen users. One thing that screen got right is the A key. It's a lot closer to Ctrl than B. *especially* if you have a proper keyboard with the ctrl key in the right location, ie, directly left of the `a'. just got ahold of a Sun Type 6 USB kbd and loving it. Funny, I always disliked CTRL-A being taken by screen, since it was so handy to go back to the beginning of the command line in ksh. But then, I make a lot of typing errors at the beginning of command lines, I guess. :)
Re: thanks for 4.6!
William Boshuck wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 01:45:41PM -0400, John Cosimano wrote: --- Brad Tilley [Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 01:16:23PM -0400]: --- de-installed screen(1) and will start using tmux(1), as it's in base. thanks for the effort of doing that---screen was always among the very first packages i installed on a virgin system. Same here. For the tmux newbies rather than the Ctrl+A keys use Ctrl+B otherwise, the syntax of tmux is very similar to screen. Nice to have it in the base OS. i seem to remember a thread here on misc@ that was meant to be a tmux guide for experienced screen users. haven't dug that up yet, as i'm not sure if i'm better off starting anew I'd recommend starting anew. tmux works differently from screen in ways you can use to your advantage, it's been better than screen for a while, and it is always improving. The man page is typically excellent, so you can learn au besoin on the fly. -wb May I also suggest the FAQ article written by tmux author Nicholas Marriott? http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#tmux Nick.
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Nick Holland n...@holland-consulting.net wrote: May I also suggest the FAQ article written by tmux author Nicholas Marriott? B http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#tmux Nice. My use of screen was very limited. So just knowing to use Ctrl+b rather than Ctrl+a was good enough. That and typing 'tmux attach' rather than 'screen -r' to get back into detached sessions. Those two small realizations got me 100% switched over to tmux. Brad
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Nick Holland n...@holland-consulting.net wrote: John Cosimano wrote: --- Brad Tilley [Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 02:52:10PM -0400]: --- On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:45 PM, John Cosimano j...@cosmicnetworks.net wrote: i seem to remember a thread here on misc@ that was meant to be a tmux guide for experienced screen users. One thing that screen got right is the A key. It's a lot closer to Ctrl than B. *especially* if you have a proper keyboard with the ctrl key in the right location, ie, directly left of the `a'. just got ahold of a Sun Type 6 USB kbd and loving it. Funny, I always disliked CTRL-A being taken by screen, since it was so handy to go back to the beginning of the command line in ksh. But then, I make a lot of typing errors at the beginning of command lines, I guess. :) I agree. C-a always annoyed me in screen for the same reason as you bring up: positioning to the beginning of the shell command. C-b is almost as annoying in vi when i want to page up ;) ... but the C-b prefix is configurable as pointed out in the excellent faq you pointed out: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#tmux Cheers, --patrick
Re: thanks for 4.6!
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:00:28PM -0700, patrick keshishian wrote: Funny, I always disliked CTRL-A being taken by screen, since it was so handy to go back to the beginning of the command line in ksh. But then, I make a lot of typing errors at the beginning of command lines, I guess. :) I agree. C-a always annoyed me in screen for the same reason as you bring up: positioning to the beginning of the shell command. C-b is almost as annoying in vi when i want to page up ;) ... Some people should really give vi-mode in ksh a try ;-) Ciao, Kili
