Re: FAQ gone?

2018-12-12 Thread Chris Bennett
On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 10:35:21PM +0100, Gilles Chehade wrote:
> 
> The FAQ has been removed from the website twice for the same reason, and
> if you work on it but it then goes unmaintained and people start mailing
> me that I should fix the FAQ, I'll have to remove it again a third time.
> 
> I'm all for having an FAQ but it must come from people willing to become
> maintainers and not release a version of it and leave.

Yes, I was very disappointed when the previous FAQ didn't have accurate
information. I would much rather see you working on OpenSMTPD itself
rather than a FAQ, which is a lot of work just to make, much less
maintain.

I have found various FAQ's all over the place that just don't have
accurate information and throw in anti-spam programs I just don't want
to use. Of course, not enough information to understand how to skip one
of those unwanted ones. So I have essentially found all of them
basically useless, which is sad but true.

I'm in a bit of a conundrum. I'm trying to pull together a bunch of
things besides just email all at once.

I grabbed a baremetal at Vultr in addition to the one I am actually
using elsewhere. I'm trying to get everything running as I need it to at
Vultr before moving everything onto it officially. Having two baremetals
gives me a great way to bounce things back and forth until everything is
really truly working correctly.

But I have lots of questions about things I have never done before.
I'm very puzzled by how to correctly set up DKIM and DMARC.
Which programs should I be using and why? I looked at opendkim and the
manual pages are so long and convoluted with so many options that it
leaves me throwing up my hands in frustration. I know that once I
understand all of it, it will probably be completely clear, but not yet.
So which program(s) for DKIM to use? Is this something for example that
would be reasonable to add as a port like opensmtpd-dkim?

I'm perfectly happy to use postgresql with OpenSMTPD and Dovecot.
I have yet to find any example SQL tables anywhere for either.
This would work great for me to integrate certain customers with in a
larger database set up.

Maildir, mbox, dovecot's own mailboxes. I seem to find arguments for and
against each choice. Right now I can make a choice, but which one?

I also have found a probable need to use auth to allow only special
users to relay mail.

Right now, I have two servers. IP addresses which can get burned if I
screw up and two domains that can also get burned since I'm not using
them.
I'm 100% willing to run through all kinds of different configurations
and I have lot's of questions that would probably be great ones for a
FAQ. So I volunteer for guinea pig. I'll try it all for the FAQ.

BUT, if there is a FAQ, it's going to need to be set up with tests to
see when previous advice fails. Otherwise, I just don't see anyone even
knowing when and what to fix. "Oh, that didn't work. I'll do this other
way instead." isn't going to get anything maintained.

I'm happy (and needful) to try all the different ways. I can't commit to
writing the FAQ myself.

So, if I see this correctly, someone needs to grab two or three servers
every six months, run though all the options, see what fails and report
back, drop the servers?

I'll help,
Chris Bennett



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Re: FAQ gone?

2018-12-12 Thread Edgar Pettijohn
I feel the manual pages are really enough. However, somesort of wiki that
the userbase could keep updated without intervention may work out.

Edgar

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Re: FAQ gone?

2018-12-12 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 03:56:35PM -0500, Matt Schwartz wrote:
> Gilles,
> 
> I've got some time on my hands for the next few weeks. I could work on it
> if you'd like.
> 

Again it's not a matter of working on it but commiting to maintain it on
the long run.

The FAQ has been removed from the website twice for the same reason, and
if you work on it but it then goes unmaintained and people start mailing
me that I should fix the FAQ, I'll have to remove it again a third time.

I'm all for having an FAQ but it must come from people willing to become
maintainers and not release a version of it and leave.


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Re: FAQ gone?

2018-12-12 Thread Ian Darwin
On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 03:56:35PM -0500, Matt Schwartz wrote:
>Gilles,
>I've got some time on my hands for the next few weeks. I could work on
>it if you'd like.

As Gilles mentioned, it's not a matter of the next few weeks, but needs to be
a committment to maintain it actively for an extended period (off-hand I'd say
you should be willing to commit for at least a year(?) to maintain the thing
and keep it in sync with the constantly-eveolving grammar, updating examples,
etc).  Not trying to discourage you, but trying to prevent discouragement down
the road as the inevitable battle fatigues sets in.

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Re: FAQ gone?

2018-12-12 Thread Matt Schwartz
Gilles,

I've got some time on my hands for the next few weeks. I could work on it
if you'd like.

Matt

On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 3:44 PM Gilles Chehade  On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 06:39:59PM +, mabi wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was wondering where did the FAQ section on the opensmtpd.org website
> disappear?
> >
> > It had useful setup examples with LMTP and Dovecot if I remember
> correctly...
> >
>
> The FAQ was inaccurate and no one step and committed to maintain it.
>
> This resulted in people mailing me in private all the time to ask why an
> example from the FAQ was not working for them.
>
> Not opposed to having a FAQ but I can't be the one maintaining it and it
> needs to be _actively_ maintained up-to-date, not just created once then
> forgotten, otherwise this means additional work for me.
>
> --
> Gilles Chehade @poolpOrg
>
> https://www.poolp.org tip me: https://paypal.me/poolpOrg
>
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Re: FAQ gone?

2018-12-12 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 01:42:16PM -0500, Matt Schwartz wrote:
> I think the FAQ section is probably in the process of being reworked
> due to the recent grammar and functionality changes in OpenSMTPD 6.4.

I'm not sure where you got that from, I'm not aware of anyone working on
a rework of the FAQ as far as I know.

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Re: FAQ gone?

2018-12-12 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 06:39:59PM +, mabi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering where did the FAQ section on the opensmtpd.org website 
> disappear?
> 
> It had useful setup examples with LMTP and Dovecot if I remember correctly...
> 

The FAQ was inaccurate and no one step and committed to maintain it.

This resulted in people mailing me in private all the time to ask why an
example from the FAQ was not working for them.

Not opposed to having a FAQ but I can't be the one maintaining it and it
needs to be _actively_ maintained up-to-date, not just created once then
forgotten, otherwise this means additional work for me.

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Gilles Chehade @poolpOrg

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Re: FAQ gone?

2018-12-12 Thread mabi
I see, that makes sense...


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 7:42 PM, Matt Schwartz 
 wrote:

> I think the FAQ section is probably in the process of being reworked
> due to the recent grammar and functionality changes in OpenSMTPD 6.4.
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 1:40 PM mabi m...@protonmail.ch wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I was wondering where did the FAQ section on the opensmtpd.org website 
> > disappear?
> > It had useful setup examples with LMTP and Dovecot if I remember 
> > correctly...
> > Regards,
> > Mabi
> > --
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>
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FAQ gone?

2018-12-12 Thread mabi
Hi,

I was wondering where did the FAQ section on the opensmtpd.org website 
disappear?

It had useful setup examples with LMTP and Dovecot if I remember correctly...

Regards,
Mabi

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