Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-11 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 23:37, Martin Schröder wrote: 2014-12-06 9:45 GMT+01:00 Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch: I have a few questions about OpenBSD's trademark policy. (I tried looking, but I couldn't find a document.) Is OpenBSD actually a registered trademark? The

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-11 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 23:42, Kaspars Bankovskis wrote: Your changes to the system will be very small, and most of the time you'll be just renaming 'openbsd' to something else, and syncing back changes from upstream. If you have time for that, lucky you. But there are more useful things to do, don't you

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-11 Thread Riley Baird
On 08/12/14 00:36, Bryan Steele wrote: On Sun, Dec 07, 2014 at 07:35:03PM +1100, Riley Baird wrote: I agree entirely. For this reason, I think it would be best to keep system internals (e.g. uname, includes, etc.) using the name OpenBSD with only the main user-visible parts changed to a new

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-11 Thread Martin Brandenburg
Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: On 07/12/14 23:42, Kaspars Bankovskis wrote: Your changes to the system will be very small, and most of the time you'll be just renaming 'openbsd' to something else, and syncing back changes from upstream. If you have

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-11 Thread Riley Baird
On 08/12/14 01:00, Luiz Roberto dos Santos wrote: At 7 Dec 2014 12:42:41 + (UTC) from Kaspars Bankovskis kasp...@bankovskis.net: there are more useful things to do, don't you think so? Agree. Riley, I think you don't get the point here. The firmware blob are *not* running on the system,

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-11 Thread Riley Baird
On 12/12/14 15:25, Martin Brandenburg wrote: Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: On 07/12/14 23:42, Kaspars Bankovskis wrote: Your changes to the system will be very small, and most of the time you'll be just renaming 'openbsd' to something else, and

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-11 Thread Theo de Raadt
On 12/12/14 15:25, Martin Brandenburg wrote: Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: On 07/12/14 23:42, Kaspars Bankovskis wrote: Your changes to the system will be very small, and most of the time you'll be just renaming 'openbsd' to something else, and

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-11 Thread Riley Baird
On 08/12/14 01:07, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote: Riley Baird said: However, remember that if someone doesn't know much about OpenBSD, they will either: a) think that OpenBSD does not contain binary-only firmware due to the Blob-Busters marketing or b) not know where to look to remove it should

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-11 Thread Riley Baird
On 12/12/14 15:36, Theo de Raadt wrote: On 12/12/14 15:25, Martin Brandenburg wrote: Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: On 07/12/14 23:42, Kaspars Bankovskis wrote: Your changes to the system will be very small, and most of the time you'll be just renaming

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 09:35, Adam Thompson wrote: On 14-12-06 03:20 PM, Riley Baird wrote: Okay, I'll change the name. What I'm wondering is, which mentions of the OpenBSD name should I change? For example, you said before that the OpenBSD name may not be removed from the license headers of source

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 09:05, Daniel Dickman wrote: On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 3:45 AM, Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: I have a few questions about OpenBSD's trademark policy. (I tried looking, but I couldn't find a document.) 1. What is OpenBSD's stance on allowing

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Kaspars Bankovskis
On Sun, Dec 07, 2014 at 07:35:03PM +1100, Riley Baird wrote: As for why I want to create the distro, I think that OpenBSD has excellent security, and I would like to create a version without the binary-only microcode included. What exactly do you mean by that?

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Brad Smith
On 12/07/14 03:35, Riley Baird wrote: As for why I want to create the distro, I think that OpenBSD has excellent security, and I would like to create a version without the binary-only microcode included. Doesn't really make any sense why. But either way hopefully you're not using common

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 19:53, Kaspars Bankovskis wrote: On Sun, Dec 07, 2014 at 07:35:03PM +1100, Riley Baird wrote: As for why I want to create the distro, I think that OpenBSD has excellent security, and I would like to create a version without the binary-only microcode included. What exactly do you

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 19:59, Brad Smith wrote: On 12/07/14 03:35, Riley Baird wrote: As for why I want to create the distro, I think that OpenBSD has excellent security, and I would like to create a version without the binary-only microcode included. Doesn't really make any sense why. But either way

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Riley Baird said: As for why I want to create the distro, I think that OpenBSD has excellent security, and I would like to create a version without the binary-only microcode included. Isn't it easier to just do # cd /mnt/etc; tar czf firmware{.tgz,}; rm -R firmware from bsd.rd after

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 20:20, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote: Riley Baird said: As for why I want to create the distro, I think that OpenBSD has excellent security, and I would like to create a version without the binary-only microcode included. Isn't it easier to just do # cd /mnt/etc; tar czf

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Joel Rees
Hi, Riley, On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: On 07/12/14 09:05, Daniel Dickman wrote: On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 3:45 AM, Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: I have a few questions about

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Otto Moerbeek
On Sun, Dec 07, 2014 at 08:29:48PM +1100, Riley Baird wrote: On 07/12/14 20:20, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote: Riley Baird said: As for why I want to create the distro, I think that OpenBSD has excellent security, and I would like to create a version without the binary-only microcode

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Brad Smith
On 12/07/14 04:29, Riley Baird wrote: However, remember that if someone doesn't know much about OpenBSD, they will either: a) think that OpenBSD does not contain binary-only firmware due to the Blob-Busters marketing or b) not know where to look to remove it should they wish to Your

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
I have a few questions about OpenBSD's trademark policy. (I tried looking, but I couldn't find a document.) 1. What is OpenBSD's stance on allowing derivative distros to keep the name OpenBSD throughout the system? It's a ton of work to change the name. I'm curious why you want to create a

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 20:52, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Sun, Dec 07, 2014 at 08:29:48PM +1100, Riley Baird wrote: On 07/12/14 20:20, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote: Riley Baird said: As for why I want to create the distro, I think that OpenBSD has excellent security, and I would like to create a version

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Brad Smith
On 12/07/14 05:18, Riley Baird wrote: On 07/12/14 20:52, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Sun, Dec 07, 2014 at 08:29:48PM +1100, Riley Baird wrote: On 07/12/14 20:20, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote: Riley Baird said: As for why I want to create the distro, I think that OpenBSD has excellent security, and

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 21:32, Brad Smith wrote: On 12/07/14 05:18, Riley Baird wrote: On 07/12/14 20:52, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Sun, Dec 07, 2014 at 08:29:48PM +1100, Riley Baird wrote: On 07/12/14 20:20, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote: Riley Baird said: As for why I want to create the distro, I think

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Joel Rees
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: I have a few questions about OpenBSD's trademark policy. (I tried looking, but I couldn't find a document.) 1. What is OpenBSD's stance on allowing derivative distros to keep the name

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 21:51, Joel Rees wrote: On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: I have a few questions about OpenBSD's trademark policy. (I tried looking, but I couldn't find a document.) 1. What is OpenBSD's stance on allowing

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Joel Rees
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch wrote: On 07/12/14 21:51, Joel Rees wrote: On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Riley Baird [...] I see your point, but I'm just wondering - if you are recommending that I get a lawyer, is that because

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Martin Schröder
2014-12-06 9:45 GMT+01:00 Riley Baird bm-2cvqnduybau5do2dfjtrn7zbaj246s4...@bitmessage.ch: I have a few questions about OpenBSD's trademark policy. (I tried looking, but I couldn't find a document.) Is OpenBSD actually a registered trademark? The USPTO doesn't list it. FreeBSD is, though. Best

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Kaspars Bankovskis
Your changes to the system will be very small, and most of the time you'll be just renaming 'openbsd' to something else, and syncing back changes from upstream. If you have time for that, lucky you. But there are more useful things to do, don't you think so?

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Bryan Steele
On Sun, Dec 07, 2014 at 07:35:03PM +1100, Riley Baird wrote: I agree entirely. For this reason, I think it would be best to keep system internals (e.g. uname, includes, etc.) using the name OpenBSD with only the main user-visible parts changed to a new name. As for why I want to create the

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Luiz Roberto dos Santos
At 7 Dec 2014 12:42:41 + (UTC) from Kaspars Bankovskis kasp...@bankovskis.net: there are more useful things to do, don't you think so? Agree. Riley, I think you don't get the point here. The firmware blob are *not* running on the system, but on device. Why do you don't create just a script

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Riley Baird said: However, remember that if someone doesn't know much about OpenBSD, they will either: a) think that OpenBSD does not contain binary-only firmware due to the Blob-Busters marketing or b) not know where to look to remove it should they wish to This information is easily

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Adam Thompson
On 14-12-07 06:37 AM, Martin Schröder wrote: Is OpenBSD actually a registered trademark? The USPTO doesn't list it. FreeBSD is, though. The answer appears to be no, as CIPO doesn't list it, either. My guess is that keeping the lights on (literally) was a higher priority than paying the annual

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Steve Litt
On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 09:37:13 -0600 Adam Thompson athom...@athompso.net wrote: On 14-12-07 06:37 AM, Martin Schröder wrote: Is OpenBSD actually a registered trademark? The USPTO doesn't list it. FreeBSD is, though. The answer appears to be no, as CIPO doesn't list it, either. My guess is

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Carson Chittom
Adam Thompson athom...@athompso.net writes: On 14-12-07 06:37 AM, Martin Schröder wrote: Is OpenBSD actually a registered trademark? The USPTO doesn't list it. FreeBSD is, though. The answer appears to be no, as CIPO doesn't list it, either. My guess is that keeping the lights on

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount
I think the same, if running a command after installing it will make your system free enough, what is the need of a fork? I think that if you publish a web page with that information the OpenBSD community would not take that as an offense. I'm in the middle of leaving Debian after almost 15

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riley Baird
After a private conversation with Theo, I've decided that I'm not going to respond to any of your emails for 4-6 days. You'll still get a response, but just not now. :)

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Theo de Raadt
After a private conversation with Theo, I've decided that I'm not going to respond to any of your emails for 4-6 days. You'll still get a response, but just not now. :) Riley, you seem to take yourself far more seriously then the rest of us do.

[OT] Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-07 Thread Riccardo Mottola
Hi, Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount wrote: I'm in the middle of leaving Debian after almost 15 years of using it, due to the systemd affair. And as you might guess it has not been easy, I have enough (personal) systems and experience invested to leave Debian only for a tantrum, but there is no

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-06 Thread Nick Holland
On 12/06/14 03:44, Riley Baird wrote: I have a few questions about OpenBSD's trademark policy. (I tried looking, but I couldn't find a document.) 1. What is OpenBSD's stance on allowing derivative distros to keep the name OpenBSD throughout the system? Short answer: follow the license. Read

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-06 Thread Christian Weisgerber
On 2014-12-06, Nick Holland n...@holland-consulting.net wrote: I have a few questions about OpenBSD's trademark policy. Short answer: follow the license. The license governs _copyright_. The _trademark_ is a wholly different beast. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-06 Thread Riley Baird
On 07/12/14 01:59, Christian Weisgerber wrote: On 2014-12-06, Nick Holland n...@holland-consulting.net wrote: I have a few questions about OpenBSD's trademark policy. Short answer: follow the license. The license governs _copyright_. The _trademark_ is a wholly different beast. Exactly

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-06 Thread Riley Baird
Not sure what you mean by throughout the system -- it's case-by-case. If you see a copyright with the OpenBSD.org email address, you keep that, per the license. If your end result is clearly not OpenBSD and something is referring to the overall product, you SHOULD change it, since the

Re: OpenBSD Trademark Policy

2014-12-06 Thread Adam Thompson
On 14-12-06 03:20 PM, Riley Baird wrote: Okay, I'll change the name. What I'm wondering is, which mentions of the OpenBSD name should I change? For example, you said before that the OpenBSD name may not be removed from the license headers of source files. So far, I can see that I would have to