Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
On 2008-03-25, Jon Radel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Meanwhile, I believe that Google has promised that this time they'll keep http://ipv6.google.com/ running. Good start, but it will be more useful when there's a name server with glue.
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
* Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-03-25 03:29]: My question might take this thread else where's, why hasn't the internet community adopted ipv6? because it is overengineered complex shit. has been discussed a thousand times, we don't really need the 1001th... -- Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg Amsterdam
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
My question might take this thread else where's, why hasn't the internet community adopted ipv6? ipv6 wasn't it to replace ipv6? And what are the pros vs cons to using internal ipv6 on ones net work? Peace, Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Henning Brauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:56:13 To:misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet * Jonathan Schleifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-03-19 15:29]: Barry Commander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I basically want the IPv6 clients on my LAN to be able to access IPv4 servers on the internet transparantly - the router doing the IPv6-IPv4/IPv4-IPv6 conversion. You'd have to use IPv4 inside then LAN and NAT at the router as well for that to properly work. There was some way to map IPv4 adresses inside the IPv6 space, but IIRC, there were some issues with it. yes, but that is totally unrelated. faithd is made for that purpose. -- Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg Amsterdam
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
Mike wrote: My question might take this thread else where's, why hasn't the internet community adopted ipv6? ipv6 wasn't it to replace ipv6? And what are the pros vs cons to using internal ipv6 on ones net work? Well, that all depends on what you mean by adopted, internet community, and, for that matter, hasn't. :-) If you mean, why isn't IPv6 available from every ISP, why isn't every web site served in IPv6, never mind IPv6 only, etc., etc., then the answer boils down to a combination of the chicken and egg problem and the lack of financial incentives, with a very uneven application depending on where you are. Mobile phone networks in China and residential cable service in the U.S. aren't in the same place in regards to IPv6 There's no real incentive for most content providers to provide IPv6 service (particularly in N. America and Europe), as it's likely to perform less well (islands of IPv6 with connecting tunnels here and there running on stacks that haven't been tuned as finely...it's just not the same), and there's nobody they care about screaming about how they have IPv6 only. Consumers don't care, because they can get everywhere they want with IPv4. ISPs don't care, because the consumers and content providers don't care. More or less. (Well, that and early content provider adopters of IPv6 found that they were spending entirely too much time explaining to Windows XP users that if you turned IPv6 on in Windows, but had no IPv6 connectivity to the world, that thingswould workonly ina slow and timeoutyfashion.) I recently read a timeline and analysis by an early adopter ISP, which clearly showed that no payback, so far, for their investment. Build it and they will come clearly didn't apply. On the other hand, I suspect they'll be ahead of the game once there's a big crunching noise heard as the RIRs squabble over the last /8 of unused IPv4 address space. :-) But the crunching sound is coming, the plans I've heard bandied about for using mid-network NATing to keep IPv4 going make me nauseous, and I certainly hope things pick up in IPv6 land. Meanwhile, I believe that Google has promised that this time they'll keep http://ipv6.google.com/ running. (And the logo dances; the turtle must have gone to their heads ;-) Pros: You'll be ahead of the game. Even now you can easily get a /48 of real, routable addresses to use on your network. Cons: You'll probably have trouble getting IPv6 service other than via some tunneling service. Unless you're interested in the technology for its own sake, there's nothing much you can do with it that you can't do with less bother using IPv4. --Jon Radel [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/x-pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
* Jonathan Schleifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-03-19 15:29]: Barry Commander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I basically want the IPv6 clients on my LAN to be able to access IPv4 servers on the internet transparantly - the router doing the IPv6-IPv4/IPv4-IPv6 conversion. You'd have to use IPv4 inside then LAN and NAT at the router as well for that to properly work. There was some way to map IPv4 adresses inside the IPv6 space, but IIRC, there were some issues with it. yes, but that is totally unrelated. faithd is made for that purpose. -- Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg Amsterdam
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
Barry Commander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this possible? Where would I find the information required to set this up? It reads like you want to be able to connect to v6 servers although you only have v4 connectivity provided by your provider. If so, have a look at: http://www.tunnelbroker.net/ http://www.sixxs.net/ http://www.freenet6.net/ -- Jonathan
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
I basically want the IPv6 clients on my LAN to be able to access IPv4 servers on the internet transparantly - the router doing the IPv6-IPv4/IPv4-IPv6 conversion. I was under the impression those tunnel brokers simply allow the IPv4 interface on my router to access the limited IPv6 sites/servers Thanks Barry On 19/03/2008, Jonathan Schleifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barry Commander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this possible? Where would I find the information required to set this up? It reads like you want to be able to connect to v6 servers although you only have v4 connectivity provided by your provider. If so, have a look at: http://www.tunnelbroker.net/ http://www.sixxs.net/ http://www.freenet6.net/ -- Jonathan
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
Barry Commander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I basically want the IPv6 clients on my LAN to be able to access IPv4 servers on the internet transparantly - the router doing the IPv6-IPv4/IPv4-IPv6 conversion. You'd have to use IPv4 inside then LAN and NAT at the router as well for that to properly work. There was some way to map IPv4 adresses inside the IPv6 space, but IIRC, there were some issues with it. I was under the impression those tunnel brokers simply allow the IPv4 interface on my router to access the limited IPv6 sites/servers Yup, that's what they do. -- Jonathan
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 01:33:18PM +, Barry Commander wrote: | Hi guys | I've found it very easy to get all the machines on my LAN speaking IPv6 but | would like them now | to be able to access the internet using IPv6 until they reach my router, | where it converts to IPv4 | and relays the data to the internet, converting back to IPv6 on the return | route. Ehm, what exactly do you mean with convert ? If you're doing tcp, you may want to have a look at faithd(8). Another solution may be application level proxies or gateways. For name resolution, you can set up BIND as a caching nameserver on your router to listen on your v6 interfaces and queries the internet over v4 (possibly also v6, with a tunnel to SixXS or someplace else). For web you'll have to find a v6-capable proxy (I know squid isn't one). Maybe Apache 2's mod_proxy does it (or Apache 1.3 + the IPv6 patches (see mini.vnode.ch)). | Is this possible? Where would I find the information required to set this | up? It depends : what do you mean with 'convert' and what exactly do you want your systems behind your router to be able to do ? Without much further details, faithd(8) is the best answer I can give you. I don't know how workable it is, but you can find out yourself. Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
Thanks Paul. Sorry for the confusion, I'd like to have only IPv6 traffic on my LAN and still be able to access IPv4 sites. I think i'll just stick to using sixx for now. Thanks again Barry On 19/03/2008, Paul de Weerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 01:33:18PM +, Barry Commander wrote: | Hi guys | I've found it very easy to get all the machines on my LAN speaking IPv6 but | would like them now | to be able to access the internet using IPv6 until they reach my router, | where it converts to IPv4 | and relays the data to the internet, converting back to IPv6 on the return | route. Ehm, what exactly do you mean with convert ? If you're doing tcp, you may want to have a look at faithd(8). Another solution may be application level proxies or gateways. For name resolution, you can set up BIND as a caching nameserver on your router to listen on your v6 interfaces and queries the internet over v4 (possibly also v6, with a tunnel to SixXS or someplace else). For web you'll have to find a v6-capable proxy (I know squid isn't one). Maybe Apache 2's mod_proxy does it (or Apache 1.3 + the IPv6 patches (see mini.vnode.ch)). | Is this possible? Where would I find the information required to set this | up? It depends : what do you mean with 'convert' and what exactly do you want your systems behind your router to be able to do ? Without much further details, faithd(8) is the best answer I can give you. I don't know how workable it is, but you can find out yourself. Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 03:19:15PM +, Barry Commander wrote: | Thanks Paul. Sorry for the confusion, I'd like to have only IPv6 traffic on | my LAN and | still be able to access IPv4 sites. I think i'll just stick to using sixx | for now. But what do you want to do ? Several different problems exist and some have nice and easy solutions (the DNS example from my previous mail), some are impossible to solve (users must use MSN messenger for MSN chatting needs). If you dont tell us what your needs are, we can not give you solutions (or tell you it's impossible). It's possible to have v6 only on your network and be productive, but it heavily depends on what you think 'being productive' means. Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 02:41:11PM +0100, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: If so, have a look at: http://www.tunnelbroker.net/ http://www.sixxs.net/ http://www.freenet6.net/ Which one from above would you recomend to look at in first place? Thanks. -- Rafal Brodewicz
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 05:15:11PM +0100, Rafal Brodewicz wrote: | On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 02:41:11PM +0100, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: | If so, have a look at: | | http://www.tunnelbroker.net/ | http://www.sixxs.net/ | http://www.freenet6.net/ | | Which one from above would you recomend to look at in first place? I'd recommend SixXS. It's what I use when there's no native v6. Just Works (tm). disclaimer : I know the people behind SixXS in person Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
Barry Commander wrote: I basically want the IPv6 clients on my LAN to be able to access IPv4 servers on the internet transparantly - the router doing the IPv6-IPv4/IPv4-IPv6 conversion. I was under the impression those tunnel brokers simply allow the IPv4 interface on my router to access the limited IPv6 sites/servers Thanks Barry They did that at recent NANOG and APNIC(APRICOT) meetings: switch off ipv4 (wireless) LAN and have everyone struggle with ipv6. see: http://www.civil-tongue.net/6and4/ you need 2 things: a DNS proxy that will give our clients a ipv6 () answer even if there's none in the real world - one is totd (ftp://ftp.dillema.net/pub/users/feico/totd-latest.tar.gz) and the protocol translator software (on linux) used mentioned here (http://www.civil-tongue.net/6and4/wiki/Linux%20NAT-PT%20Configuration) but leads to parked domain :-( (in cisco they did like this: http://www.civil-tongue.net/6and4/wiki/APRICOT2008-Router) Frank
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
On 2008-03-19, Barry Commander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was under the impression those tunnel brokers simply allow the IPv4 interface on my router to access the limited IPv6 sites/servers Most tunnel brokers allow you a /48 from which you can assign /64 subnets to your LAN/s. You can then setup live IPv6 addresses on all of your network. I basically want the IPv6 clients on my LAN to be able to access IPv4 servers on the internet transparantly - the router doing the IPv6-IPv4 /IPv4-IPv6 conversion. As things stand at the moment on OpenBSD, your only real option is faithd which is a userland proxy that forwards a single TCP port between v6 and v4. PF does not handle nat-pt. You also need some tricks so that the v6 clients see an DNS record for the site they try to access: this is done with the totd port/package.
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
Paul de Weerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd recommend SixXS. It's what I use when there's no native v6. Just Works (tm). While technically not bad, they suck when it comes to problems. My account was deleted with no further explaination, thus I asked them why. I got a reply really fast and they said it was because I was lying to them (which I weren't, I tried getting a tunnel at another PoP and they said I was lying because it was in a different country then where I live) and because a mail was bounced. My RIPE handle had an old e-mail and my MNT wasn't reachable, so I told them that. They responded me very quickly and said I should talk to RIPE directly and get the mail changed. I did so, and after that, I told them that it's fixed and they should please reactivate the account. But now they weren't replying quickly anymore, no, then ignored me. I sent them 3 mails in 2 months and all 3 were ignored. Before the e-mail was fixed, they answered in 1 day, but when it came to reactivating the account, they decided to ignore me. Today, I still haven't got my account reactivated. disclaimer : I know the people behind SixXS in person They are exactly the reason why you don't want to go there. I switched to HE then and it worked fine, but don't use HE anymore since I got native IPv6 now which works even better. -- Jonathan
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
On 2008-03-19, Paul de Weerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd recommend SixXS. It's what I use when there's no native v6. Just Works (tm). I've experienced quite a lot of difference in reliability between the various sixxs POPs...
Re: IPv6 LAN - IPv4 Internet
Jonathan Schleifer schreef: My RIPE handle had an old e-mail and my MNT wasn't reachable, so I told them that. They responded me very quickly and said I should talk to RIPE directly and get the mail changed. Hmm, I have that same issue (need it just for my SixXS account), I should talk to RIPE too I guess :-( Wijnand
