Re: [Mixxx-devel] Master Volume and Recordings

2017-11-26 Thread Be 
Your use case is valid, albeit unusual. I think in most situations it 
would be unexpected if the master output and the master meter did not 
match the record & broadcast signal. Also, most sound cards have a 
hardware volume control. I think the Xone K2's RCA outputs are intended 
to be plugged into a DJ mixer before going to an amplifier so A 
omitted a volume control so the gain staging going into the mixer cannot 
be set up improperly by the user.


It is not quite intended for this purpose, but in your situation you 
could use the Booth output instead of the Master output and adjust the 
Booth gain knob. This does not affect the record & broadcast signal. We 
could document this in the tooltips for the gain knobs (which reminds me 
that I still need to add tooltips for the booth gain knob).


On 11/26/2017 07:49 AM, Daniel Poelzleithner wrote:

Hi,

this weekend I djed on a friends birthday Party. Due broken Hardware I 
had to hookup directly to a amplifier without any line control after my 
hardware (Xone-K2) and the amplifier was unregulated.

I had to pull down the mater gain a lot so it was no too loud.

Now the problem with this is, that it makes mixxx unusable. You 
basically loose the possibility to use headphone for listening to master 
channel or anything in between because the levels become very different.


On the evening I thought mixxx is broken in this aspect, I'm not so sure 
now but at least then it's missing a second level meter. Anyway, 
recordings done when the master know is used to limit the loudness need 
massive afterwork to get to a decent loudness.


We either need a second master knob that sits just before the signal is 
sent to the line out and after it is recorded and shown after the master 
UV meter, or the master gain knob should only regulate the volume after 
the master UV meter and recording and you should adjust the gain on the 
channels instead on master.


Does somebody use the master know for anything else then reducing the 
volume ? In which case I think it would be more useful.



kind regards
  Daniel

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Master Volume and Recordings

2017-11-26 Thread Daniel Schürmann 

Hi

this is a known problem, and I am pretty sure that every new MIxxx user 
will stumble over it sooner or later.

So we should take such report seriously.

I still like the idea to open the OS Mixer from Mixxx as a band aid for 
this issue:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/1440675
https://github.com/mixxxdj/mixxx/pull/547

A more integrated solution is using PortMixer:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/1440443

What else is a solution that meets the user expectations?

Kind regards,

Daniel



Am 26.11.2017 um 16:01 schrieb Josep Maria Antolin:

Hello Daniel.

So, If i understand you correctly, you connected the line output of 
your soundcard to a power amplifier. I.e. A plain and simple amplifier 
without any volume control on it.


In such scenario, you need to adjust the volume level on your soundcard.
The Xone-K2, as I see, does not have a volume knob on it, but I am 
quite sure that you can control the volume either from the generic 
Windows Mixer, or maybe the Xone drivers include a control panel where 
you have access to a volume level.


The volume controls on Mixxx are really intended just as gain 
adjustement, in situations where you need small gain changes (more in 
line of correcting the target gain, and to prevent digital clipping), 
and not as a way to control the output volume, or at least no more 
than several dBs.
Else, you get the results that you describe, a negative effect over 
the digital signal.


Nowadays, mixing software use different mechanisms to normalize audio. 
In case of Mixxx, it uses ReplayGain.
This means that gain controls are not as much important as they used 
to be, and basically the DJ only needs to make small adjustments over 
the channel gains and rarely on the master gain to compensate for the 
different volume levels of the tracks being played.



I briefly looked into the Mixxx manual, and I couldn't find a place 
where it specifically talks about not overusing the master Gain 
control. I was sure there was a place that said that, but maybe I 
simply didn't look into the correct chapter.


There were some talks about incorporating a soundcard volume knob into 
Mixxx window, but the problem was that each operating system does it 
differently, and even different versions could implement it 
differently, so it seemed like opening a can of worms for something 
that could be better served by teaching users to use the system mixer.


So, overall, I don't think your problem could be considered a bug, but 
an incorrect usage of the options.


If you have any suggestion on how to make this more obvious to other 
users, or do you see any problem on doing what I've just described, 
just tell us.




2017-11-26 14:49 GMT+01:00 Daniel Poelzleithner >:


Hi,

this weekend I djed on a friends birthday Party. Due broken
Hardware I had to hookup directly to a amplifier without any line
control after my hardware (Xone-K2) and the amplifier was unregulated.
I had to pull down the mater gain a lot so it was no too loud.

Now the problem with this is, that it makes mixxx unusable. You
basically loose the possibility to use headphone for listening to
master channel or anything in between because the levels become
very different.

On the evening I thought mixxx is broken in this aspect, I'm not
so sure now but at least then it's missing a second level meter.
Anyway, recordings done when the master know is used to limit the
loudness need massive afterwork to get to a decent loudness.

We either need a second master knob that sits just before the
signal is sent to the line out and after it is recorded and shown
after the master UV meter, or the master gain knob should only
regulate the volume after the master UV meter and recording and
you should adjust the gain on the channels instead on master.

Does somebody use the master know for anything else then reducing
the volume ? In which case I think it would be more useful.


kind regards
 Daniel


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Re: [Mixxx-devel] Master Volume and Recordings

2017-11-26 Thread Josep Maria Antolin 
Hello Daniel.

So, If i understand you correctly, you connected the line output of your
soundcard to a power amplifier. I.e. A plain and simple amplifier without
any volume control on it.

In such scenario, you need to adjust the volume level on your soundcard.
The Xone-K2, as I see, does not have a volume knob on it, but I am quite
sure that you can control the volume either from the generic Windows Mixer,
or maybe the Xone drivers include a control panel where you have access to
a volume level.

The volume controls on Mixxx are really intended just as gain adjustement,
in situations where you need small gain changes (more in line of correcting
the target gain, and to prevent digital clipping), and not as a way to
control the output volume, or at least no more than several dBs.
Else, you get the results that you describe, a negative effect over the
digital signal.

Nowadays, mixing software use different mechanisms to normalize audio. In
case of Mixxx, it uses ReplayGain.
This means that gain controls are not as much important as they used to be,
and basically the DJ only needs to make small adjustments over the channel
gains and rarely on the master gain to compensate for the different volume
levels of the tracks being played.


I briefly looked into the Mixxx manual, and I couldn't find a place where
it specifically talks about not overusing the master Gain control. I was
sure there was a place that said that, but maybe I simply didn't look into
the correct chapter.

There were some talks about incorporating a soundcard volume knob into
Mixxx window, but the problem was that each operating system does it
differently, and even different versions could implement it differently, so
it seemed like opening a can of worms for something that could be better
served by teaching users to use the system mixer.

So, overall, I don't think your problem could be considered a bug, but an
incorrect usage of the options.

If you have any suggestion on how to make this more obvious to other users,
or do you see any problem on doing what I've just described, just tell us.



2017-11-26 14:49 GMT+01:00 Daniel Poelzleithner :

> Hi,
>
> this weekend I djed on a friends birthday Party. Due broken Hardware I had
> to hookup directly to a amplifier without any line control after my
> hardware (Xone-K2) and the amplifier was unregulated.
> I had to pull down the mater gain a lot so it was no too loud.
>
> Now the problem with this is, that it makes mixxx unusable. You basically
> loose the possibility to use headphone for listening to master channel or
> anything in between because the levels become very different.
>
> On the evening I thought mixxx is broken in this aspect, I'm not so sure
> now but at least then it's missing a second level meter. Anyway, recordings
> done when the master know is used to limit the loudness need massive
> afterwork to get to a decent loudness.
>
> We either need a second master knob that sits just before the signal is
> sent to the line out and after it is recorded and shown after the master UV
> meter, or the master gain knob should only regulate the volume after the
> master UV meter and recording and you should adjust the gain on the
> channels instead on master.
>
> Does somebody use the master know for anything else then reducing the
> volume ? In which case I think it would be more useful.
>
>
> kind regards
>  Daniel
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Get Mixxx, the #1 Free MP3 DJ Mixing software Today
> http://mixxx.org
>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mixxx-devel
>



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 º  | Messenger: jaze...@hotmail.com |
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[Mixxx-devel] Master Volume and Recordings

2017-11-26 Thread Daniel Poelzleithner 

Hi,

this weekend I djed on a friends birthday Party. Due broken Hardware I 
had to hookup directly to a amplifier without any line control after my 
hardware (Xone-K2) and the amplifier was unregulated.

I had to pull down the mater gain a lot so it was no too loud.

Now the problem with this is, that it makes mixxx unusable. You 
basically loose the possibility to use headphone for listening to master 
channel or anything in between because the levels become very different.


On the evening I thought mixxx is broken in this aspect, I'm not so sure 
now but at least then it's missing a second level meter. Anyway, 
recordings done when the master know is used to limit the loudness need 
massive afterwork to get to a decent loudness.


We either need a second master knob that sits just before the signal is 
sent to the line out and after it is recorded and shown after the master 
UV meter, or the master gain knob should only regulate the volume after 
the master UV meter and recording and you should adjust the gain on the 
channels instead on master.


Does somebody use the master know for anything else then reducing the 
volume ? In which case I think it would be more useful.



kind regards
 Daniel

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