Re: Truffle and mlvm

2014-08-31 Thread Thomas Wuerthinger
Jochen, While it is possible to build such a backend for backwards compatibility, we have not yet done so. Truffle AST interpreters can run on Android. They run several factors faster than regular AST interpreters as the rewriting and type-specialisation helps significantly (see Figure 13 in

Re: Truffle and mlvm

2014-08-31 Thread Mark Roos
Thomas You state ...a new language implementation platform. and then I strongly believe that Truffle is the best currently available vehicle to make Ruby competitive in terms of performance with node.js. If the goal is to create a 'new language' platform then why not

Re: Truffle and mlvm

2014-08-31 Thread Mark Roos
--PURE OPINION--- Thomas you state: Overall, I still believe that sometimes a larger step is needed when current techniques start to reach local maxima. Which, as you mention in other posts, only time will tell if your beliefs are correct. I have learned that when proposing

Re: Truffle and mlvm

2014-08-31 Thread Thomas Wuerthinger
Mark, The reasons for the various projects building language implementations on top of Truffle (Ruby, JavaScript, Python, R, Smalltalk) are very similar to the motivations behind other language projects on top of the JVM like Jython, JRuby, or your own project of implementing a Smalltalk for

Re: Truffle and mlvm

2014-08-31 Thread Chris Seaton
Why JRuby+Truffle doesn't use the existing JRuby core classes: There's no fundamental reason why we couldn't have implemented JRuby+Truffle using the existing JRuby classes instead of writing our own. Perhaps we should have also tried just replacing the AST and using the existing core classes.

Re: Truffle and mlvm

2014-08-31 Thread Thomas Wuerthinger
Mark, Yes, I understand that changes always bring both technical challenges and unfortunately as you mention also political ones. Truffle offers an incremental option (see details in Chris’ mail). It in particular also works exactly like you describe below: It is a Java library that makes