Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
Thomas R. Corbin said the following: On Thursday May 20, 2004 12:41 pm, Miguel de Icaza wrote: RAND + Royalty Free: Yes, that's true - it's just that I don't know what Reasonable will be. If they think $1000 is reasonable, then I'm screwed. I know you are justifiably tired of this issue, so I apologize for bothering you. ECMA ask for reasonable and Microsoft said that for them this reasonable part mean (in this case) Royalty Free, not that it may be otherwise. ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
RE: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
Gabor wrote: i know novell is doing a research on the licensing/whatever issues with dotNet. imho it would be much better to respond to these threads with a single wait for the results of the legal review line, and not entering discussions, where the mono/novell people's only arguments are their beliefs and calculations about microsofts future moves. I would even go further, why the hell are we developers discussing this? When working in a firm, this is something the legal department has to do. We do not know anything about this, because we are developers, not lawyers. So, as we know nothing about legal issues, why are we over and over again discussing these? Living in the Netherlands (EU), I just cannot comprehend all the time that is put into these discussions. No offense to anyone, but plz let's start coding again and leave these discussions to people who get paid to do these. Greetz, -- Rob. ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
RAND + Royalty Free: http://web.archive.org/web/20030609164123/http://mailserver.di.unipi.it/pipermail/dotnet-sscli/msg00218.html hmm... this is the second time when i join/begin a mono-licensing thread :) miguel...that link to the mail...do you really think it's a solid enough ground to base the future of gnome on it? Well, Jim is the Microsoft representative to ECMA, and he told me the same exact thing in person. i know novell is doing a research on the licensing/whatever issues with dotNet. imho it would be much better to respond to these threads with a single wait for the results of the legal review line, and not entering discussions, where the mono/novell people's only arguments are their beliefs and calculations about microsofts future moves. This has been said before, that did not stop people from coming up with new scenarios, and not reading what was said the last time. ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
On Fri, 2004-05-21 at 20:04, Miguel de Icaza wrote: RAND + Royalty Free: http://web.archive.org/web/20030609164123/http://mailserver.di.unipi.it/pipermail/dotnet-sscli/msg00218.html miguel...that link to the mail...do you really think it's a solid enough ground to base the future of gnome on it? Well, Jim is the Microsoft representative to ECMA, and he told me the same exact thing in person. as the article says... http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono Its not enough that Red Hat or Novell's lawyers can call Microsoft and be told we will license this to you royalty free. As a Free Software project, I want legal weight with public accountability to hold Microsoft to royalty free, not call Microsoft and they'll tell you. -- Marius Andreiana Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania http://www.galuna.ro ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
RE: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
I think one of the greatest barriers to adoption of mono by influential developers will always be the MS issue. Miguel has explained the legal situation over and over, but there are some linux users who will argue over the smallest detail wherever MS is concerned with a technology. It is unfortunate that the community will negate the fantastic success of the mono development guys through FUD and miscommunication. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Melinda Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:40 AM To: Mono List Subject: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe? Look over here: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono and here: http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=7094 This is bad news :( How do you convince somebody to programming in Mono if he already read that news? ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list This email may contain information which is privileged or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please notify the sender immediately and delete it without reading, copying, storing, forwarding or disclosing its contents to any other person Thank you Check us out at http://www.btsyntegra.com ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
Tell me again: Why doesn't Novell/Ximian contact Microsoft to get it on paper that Mono _is_ safe? (and if Microsoft refuses, can we actually be sure it is safe?) - Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think one of the greatest barriers to adoption of mono by influential developers will always be the MS issue. Miguel has explained the legal situation over and over, but there are some linux users who will argue over the smallest detail wherever MS is concerned with a technology. It is unfortunate that the community will negate the fantastic success of the mono development guys through FUD and miscommunication. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Melinda Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:40 AM To: Mono List Subject: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe? Look over here: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono and here: http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=7094 This is bad news :( How do you convince somebody to programming in Mono if he already read that news? ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list This email may contain information which is privileged or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please notify the sender immediately and delete it without reading, copying, storing, forwarding or disclosing its contents to any other person Thank you Check us out at http://www.btsyntegra.com ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
RE: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
Thankx for the reply. I appreciate it. On Thu, 2004-05-20 at 17:53, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some information... http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4557 Miguel and Novell legal staff are currently conducting a formal patent review of mono, and the team had already split up the components of mono into separate ECMA-based and non-ECMA components (WinForms, ADO.NET, etc) to clearly define what RedHat and others could make use of. Importantly, Miguel also said that Ximian had a letter from Microsoft, Intel and HP stating that they would offer *royalty-free* RAND licensing to the ECMA-submitted components of .NET. [Aside: He said they were kicking around catchy names like 'polio' or 'cholera' to distinguish the free and non-free stacks] I told Miguel he should publicize the letter more because it was such a relief to me, but he said it would be premature to promote this before the patent review was complete in case other infringement was uncovered. http://www.go-mono.com/faq.html#patents Most importantly: For Linux server and desktop development, we only need the ECMA components, and things that we have developed (like Gtk#) or Apache integration. http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg06501.html Read Andy Satori's very well though out response, also Miguel's second response further down in the thread. I believe Andy hit the nail on the head with regards to the possibility of MS imposing restrictions on Mono in the future. MS are trying to better their image. They are now even releaseing old source on sourceforge. They would not benefit from any future attack on Mono. http://nwc.linuxpipeline.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=20300445 Yet according to de Icaza, open source advocates have blown the royalty issue out of proportion. We already know that the ECMA components are royalty-free, he stated. To the best of my knowledge, I am not aware of any libraries or other parts that would have to be licensed under royalty terms from Microsoft. I think this issue comes up more because people in the open source community are scared of Microsoft and because they're ill-informed about the issue, de Icaza said. We've spent a lot of time dealing with [the patent question], and we're confident that we understand it. I believe the Mono/Novell tem are working on an official legal standing for Mono 1.0, so please wait until then before voicing growing concern for the implications of development with the framework. -Original Message- From: Simon Ask Ulsnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:34 AM To: COOPER, Jonathan -Syntegra UK Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe? Tell me again: Why doesn't Novell/Ximian contact Microsoft to get it on paper that Mono _is_ safe? (and if Microsoft refuses, can we actually be sure it is safe?) - Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think one of the greatest barriers to adoption of mono by influential developers will always be the MS issue. Miguel has explained the legal situation over and over, but there are some linux users who will argue over the smallest detail wherever MS is concerned with a technology. It is unfortunate that the community will negate the fantastic success of the mono development guys through FUD and miscommunication. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Melinda Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:40 AM To: Mono List Subject: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe? Look over here: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono and here: http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=7094 This is bad news :( How do you convince somebody to programming in Mono if he already read that news? ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list This email may contain information which is privileged or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please notify the sender immediately and delete it without reading, copying, storing, forwarding or disclosing its contents to any other person Thank you Check us out at http://www.btsyntegra.com ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list This email may contain information which is privileged or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please notify the sender immediately and delete it without reading, copying, storing, forwarding or disclosing its contents to any other person Thank you Check us out at http
Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
the issue, de Icaza said. We've spent a lot of time dealing with [the patent question], and we're confident that we understand it. I believe the Mono/Novell tem are working on an official legal standing for Mono 1.0, so please wait until then before voicing growing concern for the implications of development with the framework. -Original Message- From: Simon Ask Ulsnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:34 AM To: COOPER, Jonathan -Syntegra UK Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe? Tell me again: Why doesn't Novell/Ximian contact Microsoft to get it on paper that Mono _is_ safe? (and if Microsoft refuses, can we actually be sure it is safe?) - Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think one of the greatest barriers to adoption of mono by influential developers will always be the MS issue. Miguel has explained the legal situation over and over, but there are some linux users who will argue over the smallest detail wherever MS is concerned with a technology. It is unfortunate that the community will negate the fantastic success of the mono development guys through FUD and miscommunication. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Melinda Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:40 AM To: Mono List Subject: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe? Look over here: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono and here: http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=7094 This is bad news :( How do you convince somebody to programming in Mono if he already read that news? ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list This email may contain information which is privileged or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please notify the sender immediately and delete it without reading, copying, storing, forwarding or disclosing its contents to any other person Thank you Check us out at http://www.btsyntegra.com ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list This email may contain information which is privileged or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please notify the sender immediately and delete it without reading, copying, storing, forwarding or disclosing its contents to any other person Thank you Check us out at http://www.btsyntegra.com ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
See, that's what I don't quite get yet - the RAND business. If they decide that $1000 is reasonable, what will open source projects do then? Very few would be able to pay that. I am using mono and am very excited by it, but I just don't quite understand this issue. RAND + Royalty Free: http://web.archive.org/web/20030609164123/http://mailserver.di.unipi.it/pipermail/dotnet-sscli/msg00218.html Miguel ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
RE: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
Hello, http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4557 Miguel and Novell legal staff are currently conducting a formal patent review of mono, and the team had already split up the components of mono into separate ECMA-based and non-ECMA components (WinForms, ADO.NET, etc) to clearly define what RedHat and others could make use of. Importantly, Miguel also said that Ximian had a letter from Microsoft, Intel and HP stating that they would offer *royalty-free* RAND licensing to the ECMA-submitted components of .NET. [Aside: He said they were kicking around catchy names like 'polio' or 'cholera' to distinguish the free and non-free stacks] I told Miguel he should publicize the letter more because it was such a relief to me, but he said it would be premature to promote this before the patent review was complete in case other infringement was uncovered. Just for the record, the name is not `polio' or `cholera', its either `poly' or `color', but the opposite of Mono (poly=many, mono=single; color vs single color) ;-) ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
On Thursday May 20, 2004 12:41 pm, Miguel de Icaza wrote: See, that's what I don't quite get yet - the RAND business. If they decide that $1000 is reasonable, what will open source projects do then? Very few would be able to pay that. I am using mono and am very excited by it, but I just don't quite understand this issue. RAND + Royalty Free: http://web.archive.org/web/20030609164123/http://mailserver.di.unipi.it/pip ermail/dotnet-sscli/msg00218.html Miguel Yes, that's true - it's just that I don't know what Reasonable will be. If they think $1000 is reasonable, then I'm screwed. I know you are justifiably tired of this issue, so I apologize for bothering you. In the end, I'm not really that worried, it's just a niggling, nagging doubt. ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
Look over here: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono and here: http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=7094 This is bad news :( No, it is not bad news. It is fear mongering. Here is -another- reply: http://primates.ximian.com/~miguel/archive/2004/May-20.html Miguel ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
On Thursday May 20, 2004 12:46 pm, Miguel de Icaza wrote: Look over here: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono and here: http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=7094 This is bad news :( No, it is not bad news. It is fear mongering. Here is -another- reply: http://primates.ximian.com/~miguel/archive/2004/May-20.html That's a great read. I've basically been going on your first point, about how just about anything is at patent risk these days. For example, Sun is having problems with patents and java right now. Kodak has apparently filed a lawsuit in 2002. We have a pretty nice 2D map viewer written in java, and in my spare time I'm working to reimplement in mono for a number of reasons. I am leaning towards using gtk# over WindowsForms. It's a lot of fun so far. Oh, I think it's Fog of war. ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
RE: [Mono-list] Is it Mono safe?
On Thu, 2004-05-20 at 09:42, Miguel de Icaza wrote: Just for the record, the name is not `polio' or `cholera', its either `poly' or `color', but the opposite of Mono (poly=many, mono=single; color vs single color) ;-) What about stereo? -- Shahms King [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
