Re: [Monotone-devel] setup creates _MTN/mtn.db
Hi. Just my 2¢ as a user. :) On 09 May 2010 02:48:42 +0200, Thomas Keller wrote: Maybe we could make it easier to extract, or better move an internalized database to an external place and vice versa, so people don't have to mess with _MTN/options by hand? One thing I don't like in mtn, is that the database path is absolute. Monotone can read relative path (relative to $CWD) when I put it in options by hand, but replaces that with absolute one (doesn't matter if it's found or not). a way to find a database only by its name (ie. -d foo would look for and find $HOME/.monotone/databases/foo.mtn) Lovely idea. Having a list of places where monotone can search for databases would help a lot. Now, my workspace isn't self-contained, because the absolute database path in options forces me to either leave the workspace where it is, or edit options file when I do a little housekeeping with my directories. (Ahead of the question: yes, moving workspaces is sometimes needed, and I need all the files there — not only these handled by monotone, so cloning or copying just the db is not the answer.) There could be a hook get_default_database_location which could be altered by the user to a different path than the default one underknees $HOME, stuff like that. That would help much. :) Sincerely, -- Marcin W. Dabrowski ___ Monotone-devel mailing list Monotone-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/monotone-devel
Re: [Monotone-devel] setup creates _MTN/mtn.db
Am 09.05.10 01:28, schrieb hend...@topoi.pooq.com: On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 02:08:35PM +0200, Thomas Keller wrote: So let me repeat again, what I wanted to improve is the situation for first time users and I personally find a place like ~/.monotone/mtn.db not a good place at all (what if the user starts another, different project - should we reuse the same database then?), because its much hidden and maybe even physically away from the actual workspace setup. Last thing I want is to create a random data base when I just forget to mention what database I want to use. Heh, ok, understood - what do you think about the other proposal - having a default database location and management features for that? Thomas. -- GPG-Key 0x160D1092 | tommyd3...@jabber.ccc.de | http://thomaskeller.biz Please note that according to the EU law on data retention, information on every electronic information exchange might be retained for a period of six months or longer: http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/?lang=en signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Monotone-devel mailing list Monotone-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/monotone-devel
Re: [Monotone-devel] setup creates _MTN/mtn.db
Thomas Keller m...@thomaskeller.biz writes:
Maybe we could make it easier to extract, or better move an
internalized database to an external place and vice versa, so people
don't have to mess with _MTN/options by hand? Then maybe
$HOME/.monotone/databases/user-chosen-name.mtn is a good default,
similar to what Stephen proposed. We could add more management features
there, f.e. a list databases command which lists available known
databases, a way to find a database only by its name (ie. -d foo would
look for and find $HOME/.monotone/databases/foo.mtn), we could connect
databases and workspaces by adding known workspaces of a database as db
variables and list those as well in the database list. There could be a
hook get_default_database_location which could be altered by the user
to a different path than the default one underknees $HOME, stuff like that.
This sounds good.
That way, if I forget where I checked out something, the database can
tell me.
The 'get_default_database_location' hook should return a list
of directories; {~/.monotone/databases,
/usr/share/monotone/databases} would be a good default on Unix,
{$APPDATA/monotone/databases, $ALLUSERSPROFILE/Application
Data/monotone/databases} on Windows.
It might be good to have a MTN_DATABASE_PATH environment variable as
well; everything else with a search path uses that mechanism. That could
be added by the user in the the 'get_default_database_location' hook,
but it would be better to have a standard name. Perhaps the default
hook definition could handle that env variable.
--
-- Stephe
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Re: [Monotone-devel] setup creates _MTN/mtn.db
Am 08.05.10 13:44, schrieb Stephen Leake: A recent change lets setup init a new database _MTN/mtn.db if none is given. First, this needs to be documented in the manual; both that setup will init the database if it is not already, and that it provides a default name. Yes, I forgot that and I'll do it shortly. Thanks for he reminder. Second, what is the rationale, both for providing any default name, and choosing this particular name? The rationale is simply to make monotone less database-centric and verbose with respect to the commands needed to start with a fresh project. I can see that proving a default db name it makes it easy to start a totally new project. But it's a significant change, and I'm not happy with the path. I'm ok with initializing the database if needed. Once the project grows a branch that they want to checkout into a different directory, having the database in branch_1/_MTN/mtn.db will be very odd and confusing; people will wonder if there should be one db per branch, or one db per workspace. I think ~/.monotone/mtn.db would be a better place for the default database. Those people who store their databases elsewhere have to specify their complete path now anyways and setup now basically follows the same principles like clone (even uses the same path). Beside that, setup even informs the user that it creates a new database in _MTN/, which clone currently does not iirc. So let me repeat again, what I wanted to improve is the situation for first time users and I personally find a place like ~/.monotone/mtn.db not a good place at all (what if the user starts another, different project - should we reuse the same database then?), because its much hidden and maybe even physically away from the actual workspace setup. Thomas. -- GPG-Key 0x160D1092 | tommyd3...@jabber.ccc.de | http://thomaskeller.biz Please note that according to the EU law on data retention, information on every electronic information exchange might be retained for a period of six months or longer: http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/?lang=en signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Monotone-devel mailing list Monotone-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/monotone-devel
Re: [Monotone-devel] setup creates _MTN/mtn.db
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:08 AM, Thomas Keller m...@thomaskeller.biz wrote: Am 08.05.10 13:44, schrieb Stephen Leake: Second, what is the rationale, both for providing any default name, and choosing this particular name? The rationale is simply to make monotone less database-centric and verbose with respect to the commands needed to start with a fresh project. I can see that proving a default db name it makes it easy to start a totally new project. But it's a significant change, and I'm not happy with the path. I'm ok with initializing the database if needed. Once the project grows a branch that they want to checkout into a different directory, having the database in branch_1/_MTN/mtn.db will be very odd and confusing; people will wonder if there should be one db per branch, or one db per workspace. I sympathise with Stephen here a bit - Monotone's ability to share one database among many workspaces is a significant difference from Git and Mercurial, and one that should be up-front rather than buried. How about putting the database in the parent directory of the checkout and naming it something like _store.mtn by default? zw ___ Monotone-devel mailing list Monotone-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/monotone-devel
Re: [Monotone-devel] setup creates _MTN/mtn.db
On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 02:08:35PM +0200, Thomas Keller wrote: Am 08.05.10 13:44, schrieb Stephen Leake: A recent change lets setup init a new database _MTN/mtn.db if none is given. First, this needs to be documented in the manual; both that setup will init the database if it is not already, and that it provides a default name. Yes, I forgot that and I'll do it shortly. Thanks for he reminder. Second, what is the rationale, both for providing any default name, and choosing this particular name? The rationale is simply to make monotone less database-centric and verbose with respect to the commands needed to start with a fresh project. I can see that proving a default db name it makes it easy to start a totally new project. But it's a significant change, and I'm not happy with the path. I'm ok with initializing the database if needed. Once the project grows a branch that they want to checkout into a different directory, having the database in branch_1/_MTN/mtn.db will be very odd and confusing; people will wonder if there should be one db per branch, or one db per workspace. I think ~/.monotone/mtn.db would be a better place for the default database. Those people who store their databases elsewhere have to specify their complete path now anyways and setup now basically follows the same principles like clone (even uses the same path). Beside that, setup even informs the user that it creates a new database in _MTN/, which clone currently does not iirc. So let me repeat again, what I wanted to improve is the situation for first time users and I personally find a place like ~/.monotone/mtn.db not a good place at all (what if the user starts another, different project - should we reuse the same database then?), because its much hidden and maybe even physically away from the actual workspace setup. Last thing I want is to create a random data base when I just forget to mention what database I want to use. -- hendrik ___ Monotone-devel mailing list Monotone-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/monotone-devel
Re: [Monotone-devel] setup creates _MTN/mtn.db
In message 4be6066a.20...@thomaskeller.biz on Sun, 09 May 2010 02:48:42 +0200, Thomas Keller m...@thomaskeller.biz said: me Maybe we could make it easier to extract, or better move an me internalized database to an external place and vice versa, so people me don't have to mess with _MTN/options by hand? Then maybe me $HOME/.monotone/databases/user-chosen-name.mtn is a good default, me similar to what Stephen proposed. We could add more management features me there, f.e. a list databases command which lists available known me databases, a way to find a database only by its name (ie. -d foo would me look for and find $HOME/.monotone/databases/foo.mtn), we could connect me databases and workspaces by adding known workspaces of a database as db me variables and list those as well in the database list. There could be a me hook get_default_database_location which could be altered by the user me to a different path than the default one underknees $HOME, stuff like that. THIS idea, I like! +10 or something ;-) (and while we're on that debate, I strongly dislike the _MTN/mtn.db idea, for a very simple reason; I sometimes experiment with something as a start in some temporary directory, and usually regard the database as safe while the workspace isn't... with this default, it suddenly becomes dangerous to just toss away the workspace when it's not needed any more. I regard this default as unsafe practice, and would rather like it do be something like - following your thoughts above here - ~/.monotone/databases/_default.mtn) Cheers, Richard -- Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org http://richard.levitte.org/ Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited! -- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish ___ Monotone-devel mailing list Monotone-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/monotone-devel
