Re: [MORPHMET] Terminology: Morphometry or Morphometrics?

2016-09-08 Thread Joe Felsenstein
Back in the days when phenetic clustering was new, at one point someone
(Sokal, Rohlf, someone like that) suggested that their field be called
"taxometrics".  Someone else pointed out that the more proper Greek name
would be "taximetrics".  Someone else then killed off this suggestion by
pointing out that that was too easy for that to be mistaken for the study
of taxi meters.

Joe

Joe Felsenstein j...@gs.washington.edu
 Department of Genome Sciences and Department of Biology,
 University of Washington, Box 355065, Seattle, WA 98195-5065 USA

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Emma Sherratt 
wrote:

> Dear Chris, Norm, Alannah,
>
> Thank you for your comments and discussion on this term! And for engaging
> in a fun and different topic for this forum.
>
> It is indeed the etymology and usage I find most fascinating. I have
> noticed through my years of training in morphometrics (as I would call it)
> that colleagues in Brazil and Spanish speaking countries say morphometry
> usually and I'd not heard this before - at least I don't remember hearing
> it said in Britain. I began to wonder why, but had not found the answer.
> I'm glad I'm not the only one interested in this - thanks Mauro!
>
> Have a lovely weekend all!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Em
>
> On Thursday, 8 September 2016, Chris Klingenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Emma
>>
>> They are synonyms, with the same meaning. Incidentally, that is the same
>> as for "biometry" and "biometrics".
>>
>> I think "morphometry" may be the older of the two (the Oxford English
>> Dictiionary has a first occurrence in 1857, although it is not clear
>> whether the meaning is the same, versus 1960 for "morphometrics"), and is
>> the more traditional-sounding one.
>> During much of the 20th century, words ending in "-ics" had the aura of
>> coolness about them (perhaps from physics envy) as it now applies to those
>> ending in "-omics".
>>
>> Also, I have a feeling (which may be wrong) that there may be a
>> geographic flavour to the two words. In my impression, the word
>> "morphometry" is perhaps more widespread in Britain (plus perhaps the
>> Commonwealth), whereas folks in North America seems to use "morphometrics"
>> pretty much all the time.
>> Furthermore, "morphometry" may come more naturally to writers who
>> translate from another language (French "morphométrie", German
>> "Morphometrie" etc.).
>>
>> There would be room for linguistic research here
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On 08/09/2016 06:01, Emma Sherratt wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Morphmet-hive mind,
>>>
>>> I've been curious for some time about the terms "morphometry" and
>>> "morphometrics" and whether they are in fact interchangeable or quite
>>> distinct. Also, is it related to the difference between phylogeny and
>>> phylogenetics?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Emma
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "MORPHMET" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org >> morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org>.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Christian Peter Klingenberg
>> School of Biological Sciences
>> University of Manchester
>> Michael Smith Building
>> Oxford Road
>> Manchester M13 9PT
>> United Kingdom
>>
>> Web site: http://www.flywings.org.uk
>> E-mail: c...@manchester.ac.uk
>> Phone: +44 161 2753899
>> Skype: chris_klingenberg
>> ***
>>
>> --
>> MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "MORPHMET" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org.
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> ~~~
>
> Emma Sherratt, PhD.
>
>
> Postdoctoral Researcher in the Keogh Lab 
> 
> Division of Evolution, Ecology & Genetics
> Research School of Biology
> 116 Daley Road
> The Australian National University
> Acton, ACT  2601
> AUSTRALIA
>
> email: emma.sherr...@gmail.com
> office tel: +61 2612 53029
> mob: +61 4234 19966
> Twitter: @DrEmSherratt 
> co-author of geomorph R package: Software website 
>  | CRAN website 
>  | googlegroups 
> 
>
> Caecilians are legless amphibians...
>
> *  __
> (\   .-.   .-.   /_")
>  \\_//^\\_//^\\_//
>   `"`   `"`   `"`*
>
> learn more about them here: www.emmasherratt.com/caecilians
>
>
>
>
> --
> MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
> ---

Re: [MORPHMET] Terminology: Morphometry or Morphometrics?

2016-09-08 Thread Emma Sherratt
Dear Chris, Norm, Alannah,

Thank you for your comments and discussion on this term! And for engaging
in a fun and different topic for this forum.

It is indeed the etymology and usage I find most fascinating. I have
noticed through my years of training in morphometrics (as I would call it)
that colleagues in Brazil and Spanish speaking countries say morphometry
usually and I'd not heard this before - at least I don't remember hearing
it said in Britain. I began to wonder why, but had not found the answer.
I'm glad I'm not the only one interested in this - thanks Mauro!

Have a lovely weekend all!

Best wishes,

Em

On Thursday, 8 September 2016, Chris Klingenberg 
wrote:

> Dear Emma
>
> They are synonyms, with the same meaning. Incidentally, that is the same
> as for "biometry" and "biometrics".
>
> I think "morphometry" may be the older of the two (the Oxford English
> Dictiionary has a first occurrence in 1857, although it is not clear
> whether the meaning is the same, versus 1960 for "morphometrics"), and is
> the more traditional-sounding one.
> During much of the 20th century, words ending in "-ics" had the aura of
> coolness about them (perhaps from physics envy) as it now applies to those
> ending in "-omics".
>
> Also, I have a feeling (which may be wrong) that there may be a geographic
> flavour to the two words. In my impression, the word "morphometry" is
> perhaps more widespread in Britain (plus perhaps the Commonwealth), whereas
> folks in North America seems to use "morphometrics" pretty much all the
> time.
> Furthermore, "morphometry" may come more naturally to writers who
> translate from another language (French "morphométrie", German
> "Morphometrie" etc.).
>
> There would be room for linguistic research here
>
> Best wishes,
> Chris
>
>
> On 08/09/2016 06:01, Emma Sherratt wrote:
>
>> Dear Morphmet-hive mind,
>>
>> I've been curious for some time about the terms "morphometry" and
>> "morphometrics" and whether they are in fact interchangeable or quite
>> distinct. Also, is it related to the difference between phylogeny and
>> phylogenetics?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Emma
>>
>>
>> --
>> MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "MORPHMET" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org > morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org>.
>>
>
> --
> ***
> Christian Peter Klingenberg
> School of Biological Sciences
> University of Manchester
> Michael Smith Building
> Oxford Road
> Manchester M13 9PT
> United Kingdom
>
> Web site: http://www.flywings.org.uk
> E-mail: c...@manchester.ac.uk
> Phone: +44 161 2753899
> Skype: chris_klingenberg
> ***
>
> --
> MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MORPHMET" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org.
>
>

-- 

~~~

Emma Sherratt, PhD.


Postdoctoral Researcher in the Keogh Lab

Division of Evolution, Ecology & Genetics
Research School of Biology
116 Daley Road
The Australian National University
Acton, ACT  2601
AUSTRALIA

email: emma.sherr...@gmail.com
office tel: +61 2612 53029
mob: +61 4234 19966
Twitter: @DrEmSherratt 
co-author of geomorph R package: Software website
 | CRAN website
 | googlegroups


Caecilians are legless amphibians...

*  __
(\   .-.   .-.   /_")
 \\_//^\\_//^\\_//
  `"`   `"`   `"`*

learn more about them here: www.emmasherratt.com/caecilians

-- 
MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MORPHMET" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org.


Re: [MORPHMET] Terminology: Morphometry or Morphometrics?

2016-09-08 Thread Chris Klingenberg

Dear Emma

They are synonyms, with the same meaning. Incidentally, that is the same 
as for "biometry" and "biometrics".


I think "morphometry" may be the older of the two (the Oxford English 
Dictiionary has a first occurrence in 1857, although it is not clear 
whether the meaning is the same, versus 1960 for "morphometrics"), and 
is the more traditional-sounding one.
During much of the 20th century, words ending in "-ics" had the aura of 
coolness about them (perhaps from physics envy) as it now applies to 
those ending in "-omics".


Also, I have a feeling (which may be wrong) that there may be a 
geographic flavour to the two words. In my impression, the word 
"morphometry" is perhaps more widespread in Britain (plus perhaps the 
Commonwealth), whereas folks in North America seems to use 
"morphometrics" pretty much all the time.
Furthermore, "morphometry" may come more naturally to writers who 
translate from another language (French "morphométrie", German 
"Morphometrie" etc.).


There would be room for linguistic research here

Best wishes,
Chris


On 08/09/2016 06:01, Emma Sherratt wrote:

Dear Morphmet-hive mind,

I've been curious for some time about the terms "morphometry" and 
"morphometrics" and whether they are in fact interchangeable or quite 
distinct. Also, is it related to the difference between phylogeny and 
phylogenetics?


Regards,

Emma


--
MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MORPHMET" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org 
.


--
***
Christian Peter Klingenberg
School of Biological Sciences
University of Manchester
Michael Smith Building
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PT
United Kingdom

Web site: http://www.flywings.org.uk
E-mail: c...@manchester.ac.uk
Phone: +44 161 2753899
Skype: chris_klingenberg
***

--
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Re: [MORPHMET] Terminology: Morphometry or Morphometrics?

2016-09-08 Thread Norman MacLeod
There’s no clear difference between these terms in the sense of the manner in 
which they are used at present. Morphometry is sometimes represented as 
referring to the metrics (= measurements) of form or shape whereas 
morphometrics is sometimes used to refer to the set of numerical and statical 
procedures employed to make manifest and analyze patterns in such data. 
However, the obvious analogues of biometry/biometrics have been used to refer 
both to these same distinctions and to their opposites! Both morphometry and 
morphometrics are regarded as being nouns though morphometrics is obviously 
derived from an adjective (e.g.. morphometric analysis) via conversion to a 
collective plural. But still it could refer to a set of measurements or a set 
of methods. An etymologically interesting related question is whether the 
proper adjectival form is morphometric or morphometrical The former is much 
more common, but the latter is also seen on occasion. In the end both terms 
exist and I think their usage is best regarded as a matter of personal 
preference and style. So long as the manner in which these terms are being used 
is rendered obvious in context there should be little cause for confusion.

Norm MacLeod


> On 8 Sep 2016, at 11:04, Mauro Cavalcanti  wrote:
> 
> Dear Emma,
> 
> A truly nice question, to which I do not have an answer, but that also 
> incites my curiosity.
> 
> Anyway, from a purely subjective viewpoint, "morphometrics" sounds better to 
> me.
> 
> So this humble worker said... :-)
> 
> Salud!
> 
> --
> Dr. Mauro J. Cavalcanti
> E-mail: mauro...@gmail.com
> Web: http://sites.google.com/site/maurobio
> 
> 
> Em 08/09/2016 02:01, "Emma Sherratt"  escreveu:
> Dear Morphmet-hive mind,
> 
> I've been curious for some time about the terms "morphometry" and 
> "morphometrics" and whether they are in fact interchangeable or quite 
> distinct. Also, is it related to the difference between phylogeny and 
> phylogenetics? 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Emma
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MORPHMET" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org.
> 
> -- 
> MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MORPHMET" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to morphmet+unsubscr...@morphometrics.org.

_

Professor Norman MacLeod
The Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD
(0)207 942-5204 (Office Landline)
(0)785 017-1787 (Mobile)
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_sites/paleonet/MacLeod/

Department of Earth Sciences, University College
London, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT, UK

Nanjing Institute of Geology & Palaeontology,
Chinese Academy of Sciences, 39 Beijing, Donglu, Nanjing, China
_








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[MORPHMET] Terminology: Morphometry or Morphometrics?

2016-09-07 Thread Emma Sherratt
Dear Morphmet-hive mind,

I've been curious for some time about the terms "morphometry" and 
"morphometrics" and whether they are in fact interchangeable or quite 
distinct. Also, is it related to the difference between phylogeny and 
phylogenetics? 

Regards,

Emma


-- 
MORPHMET may be accessed via its webpage at http://www.morphometrics.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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