Re: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (Letter to Star-Tribune)
Michael Atherton writes Not that I'm adverse to conspiracy theories (I have a number of my own, including being the subject of a campaign contribution sting ;-) and not that it doesn't make me a little queasy defending the FBI, but has anyone considered that if the FBI had rock solid evidence don't you think that they might have discussed whether to hold off until after the election and then have decided that it was in the interests of an informed electorate that they should proceed with their investigation (not to mention that they might have compromised their case by waiting). Doug Mann responds: The FBI clearly stepped over the line. The FBI's raid and press releases clearly serve political ends. And the FBI has a long history of carrying out investigations that serve political, and not legitimate law enforcement aims, such as the cointelpro programs of the 1960s and 70s. If the FBI already had rock solid evidence of Zimmermann's guilt, what was the point of the early morning raid of DZ's' house? Did they find the smoking gun they were after? Did the FBI raid yield a shoe box full of money? A rack full of Armani suits? Did the seizure of bank DZ's bank records show mysterious or unusually large cash deposits? Did DZ's campaign records fail to account for thousands of dollars in small campaign contributions(which are not itemized in the public campaign finance report) ? Incidentally, there were no press releases about Brian Herron allegedly taking bribes before he was prepared to enter a plea of guilty to charges of felony extortion (18 July 2001). http://citypages.com/databank/22/1088/article9861.asp -Doug Mann, King Field, 8th ward Candidate for city council and Green Party member http://educationright.com/blog REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (Letter toStar-Tribune)
Doug Mann responds: The FBI clearly stepped over the line. The FBI's raid and press releases clearly serve political ends. And you evidence is? And the FBI ha a long history of carrying out investigations that serve political, and not legitimate law enforcement aims, such as the cointelpro programs of the 1960s and 70s. This maybe true previously, but why is it true in this case? If the FBI already had rock solid evidence of Zimmermann's guilt, what was the point of the early morning raid of DZ's' house? Did they find the smoking gun they were after? Search warrants are typically executed to collect evidence. Did the FBI raid yield a shoe box full of money? A rack full of Armani suits? Did the seizure of bank DZ's bank records show mysterious or unusually large cash deposits? Did DZ's campaign records fail to account for thousands of dollars in small campaign contributions(which are not itemized in the public campaign finance report) ? This just does not match the accusations. Mr. Zimmermann is accused of taking money to finance his campaign and pay legal debts. Extravagant spending is not a necessary consequence of corruption. Incidentally, there were no press releases about Brian Herron allegedly taking bribes before he was prepared to enter a plea of guilty to charges of felony extortion (18 July 2001). http://citypages.com/databank/22/1088/article9861.asp So? What do this imply? Mr. Zimmermann's case, maybe different than Mr. Herron's. Why not try making some wild connection because of the difference in race? What I find interesting is that Mr. Zimmermann has yet to public deny the charges (at least to my knowledge). He made a statement about the importance of his social agenda. The goals justify the means...right? His lawyer hasn't denied that he took money, he said that campaign laws were fuzzy. This is not a strong declaration of innocence. Regardless, I'm reserving judgment until Mr. Zimmerman has his day in court. However, I'm afraid that Mr. Mann's reasoning is not prudent or reasonable and is uncharacteristic of the performance that I would expect of a city councilmember. I had more respect for Candidate Mann when he ran his school board campaigns on facts, rather than wild unverified accusations. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up
The FBI has not now or ever been in favor of supporting the right of the electorate to a fair election. As a matter of fact, the FBI has a long history of being a right wing body that has done an incredible amount to stifle grassroots, bottom up, populist organizing. Do I need to mention COINTELPRO and its subsequent policy incarnations? Or does anyone here believe that magically, under the Bush administration and in the era of the Patriot Act, that the FBI has magically morphed into the ultimate protector of the peoples right to informed decision-making. Defender of election integrity, and righter of suffrage wrongs? If that's the case, then I fully expect the FBI to ransack the headquarters of the Republican Parties of Ohio and Florida any moment now. I also expect them to push on through to the Oval Office and see what schemes W has cooked up to disenfranchise folks in mid-term elections next year. The day that the FBI in Minneapolis does something proactive with intentions that are meant to be beneficial to the people of the Twin Cities is the day I take over leading Exodus International and become a heterosexual ex-gay fundamentalist TV evangelist. Possible, but not likely. -Brandon Lacy Campos -Loring Park Writer, Poet, Playwright, and Rabble Rouser Lavender Greens: www.lavendergreens.org YouthAction: www.youthaction.net From: Michael Atherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mpls@mnforum.org Subject: RE: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:31:30 -0500 Doug Mann wrote: Dean Zimmermann is the target of a politically motivated frame-up and smear campaign being carried out at taxpayers expense. Consider: The timing of the sensational raid on Dean Zimmermann's house to seize documents that are already in the public domain (at a Hennepin County website). The FBI press releases. The evidence presented in reports published by the Star-Tribune. The ulterior motive: Kill the Green Party's chances of holding and gaining seats on the city council this fall. Not that I'm adverse to conspiracy theories (I have a number of my own, including being the subject of a campaign contribution sting ;-) and not that it doesn't make me a little queasy defending the FBI, but has anyone considered that if the FBI had rock solid evidence don't you think that they might have discussed whether to hold off until after the election and then have decided that it was in the interests of an informed electorate that they should proceed with their investigation (not to mention that they might have compromised their case by waiting). Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (Letter toStar-Tribune)
In politics, nothing happens by chance. If something happens, then you can bet that it was planned that way. (Franklin Delano Roosevelt) The one who derives advantage from a crime is the one most likely to have committed it. (Seneca) My belief is that if a DFL or Republican candidate did what DZ is alleged to have done, there would be no investigation. Republicans and Democrats have all kinds of money and favors sloshing around . Pawlenty was given a job title with a cushy salary so that he could focus on running for governor, and so forth. The kind of money we are talking about in DZ's case is not even small potatoes. Furthermore, if a DFL or Republican candidate were under investigation my guess is that it would be handle very discreetly, especially during an election campaign. The timing and handling of this is not by chance at all. The Justice Department seldom has anything to do with justice. Justice is carefully meted out in our culture according to race, economic class, and political connections. -- pedaling for peace and ecojustice -- from Lynnhurst for now -- Gary Hoover REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (LettertoStar-Tribune)
- Original Message - From: wmmarks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: George Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (LettertoStar-Tribune) George Janssen wrote: Even the most politically naïve amongst us should realize the execution of a search warrant on Minneapolis Council Person Zimmerman, five days before a primary election is politically motivated. Five days is perfect. Time enough before the election that it will be fresh in people's minds but not the day before which EVERYONE would agree to be politically motivated. The one who stands to gain vis-avis Zimmerman (Green) is Lilligren (DFL). The one who stood to gain vis-a-vis Herron (DFL) was Lilligren. Could Lilligren pull this off? Does he have a friend at the FBI? The DOJ? WMarks Exactly! Council Person Lilligren, the golden boy' of the DFL defeat would be a devastating and probably a KO blow to the DFL. With all due respect, you seem to miss the entire gist of my post. It is the Minneapolis DFL machine and their North side handlers who DO have that kind of power. George Janssen Longfellow REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (LettertoStar-Tribune)
My apologies to Lilligren and all you listers. I sent this note off list and in a spirit of irony (maybe not irony. This is a day where the words are hiding in the bushes.) WMarks, Central George Janssen wrote: Even the most politically naïve amongst us should realize the execution of a search warrant on Minneapolis Council Person Zimmerman, five days before a primary election is politically motivated. Five days is perfect. Time enough before the election that it will be fresh in people's minds but not the day before which EVERYONE would agree to be politically motivated. The one who stands to gain vis-avis Zimmerman (Green) is Lilligren (DFL). The one who stood to gain vis-a-vis Herron (DFL) was Lilligren. Could Lilligren pull this off? Does he have a friend at the FBI? The DOJ? WMarks Exactly! Council Person Lilligren, the golden boy' of the DFL defeat would be a devastating and probably a KO blow to the DFL. With all due respect, you seem to miss the entire gist of my post. It is the Minneapolis DFL machine and their North side handlers who DO have that kind of power. George Janssen Longfellow REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (Letter toStar-Tribune)
Doug Mann wrote: I suspect that all DFL candidates seeking reelection to the city council have taken money from business owners who apply for permits, zoning variances, etc. You can't run a business without being subjected to regulations that might require action by the city council. The question is whether those campaign contributions are made in exchange for promises of favors. Mark Anderson responds: I think Doug Mann is mostly correct here, as long as one qualifies taking money as including campaign contributions. And even if one excludes campaign contributions, I wouldn't be surprised if there are all sorts of favors being passed about. As Michelle Hill pointed out, the temptation is just too great for many folks. You know what they say about absolute power, and council members have a lot of it when it comes to certain occupations in the city. I think the root problem is the power the council members have over individual developers and building trade workers. The best thing we could do is simply to deregulate these occupations, which would eliminate the council members' temptations, as well as greatly improve the opportunities of the poor to work their way out of poverty. But even if we don't do that, we must remove the temptations from the direct purview of council members. A department of the city should be in charge of making such individual decisions. The council should be making policy decisions, not micro-managing the city. Of course the bureaucrats in charge would then be subject to corruption. But at least the council would then be interested in rooting out the corruption, and maybe we wouldn't need the FBI to root out the miscreants. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (LettertoStar-Tribune)
I continue to be amazed by conspiracy theories that revolve around the all powerful DFL. (Of course, I am also amazed when I hear almost as many stories of the party's demise.) The DFL party has a substantial foothold in Minneapolis politics because people vote for DFL candidates. That seems pretty straightforward. I'm not sure where the North side handlers come in, as most other people are concerned about the overrepresented Southwest corner. If this is part of a long DFL conspiracy, why was a DFLer (Herron) the first target? If this was politically motivated, why would someone waste the effort to affect the primary, rather than the general election? Wouldn't that be a much more judicious use of hard-earned influence? And, for those who are frustrated that Zimmermann's reputation is being sullied by these allegations, any implication that this was politically motivated is in turn a smear aimed at DFLer Lilligren. Let's avoid a battle of unsupported allegations and wait to see what comes out of any of this. David Weinlick Armatage George Janssen wrote: Even the most politically naïve amongst us should realize the execution of a search warrant on Minneapolis Council Person Zimmerman, five days before a primary election is politically motivated. Five days is perfect. Time enough before the election that it will be fresh in people's minds but not the day before which EVERYONE would agree to be politically motivated. The one who stands to gain vis-avis Zimmerman (Green) is Lilligren (DFL). The one who stood to gain vis-a-vis Herron (DFL) was Lilligren. Could Lilligren pull this off? Does he have a friend at the FBI? The DOJ? WMarks Exactly! Council Person Lilligren, the golden boy' of the DFL defeat would be a devastating and probably a KO blow to the DFL. With all due respect, you seem to miss the entire gist of my post. It is the Minneapolis DFL machine and their North side handlers who DO have that kind of power. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (LettertoStar-Tribune)
Mark Anderson wrote: I think the root problem is the power the council members have over individual developers and building trade workers. The best thing we could do is simply to deregulate these occupations, which would eliminate the council members' temptations, as well as greatly improve the opportunities of the poor to work their way out of poverty. But even if we don't do that, we must remove the temptations from the direct purview of council members. A department of the city should be in charge of making such individual decisions. The council should be making policy decisions, not micro-managing the city. Of course the bureaucrats in charge would then be subject to corruption. But at least the council would then be interested in rooting out the corruption, and maybe we wouldn't need the FBI to root out the miscreants. I think that the root problem is that we have a populous that turns a blind eye to unethical behavior as long as it benefits them personally. Really, how many of the 70% of voters who reelected Phyllis Kahn bothered to personally express their disapproval of her stealing candidates' political literature? How can we elect ethical politicians if the public continues to unconditionally support them? It's the culture, stupid! It seems to me that it's only the FBI that is concerned about corruption and when they do something about it people accuse them of being biased! Have you ever wondered why no Republicans in Minneapolis have been changed with corruption? It's not because the FBI is biased against Greens and the DFL, it's because there are no Republicans on the council! Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (Letter toStar-Tribune)
Or cap campaign spending and the limit carryovers from year to year. Jason Stone Diamond Lake --- Anderson Turpin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the root problem is the power the council members have over individual developers and building trade workers. The best thing we could do is simply to deregulate these occupations, which would eliminate the council members' temptations, as well as greatly improve the opportunities of the poor to work their way out of poverty. But even if we don't do that, we must remove the temptations from the direct purview of council members. A department of the city should be in charge of making such individual decisions. The council should be making policy decisions, not micro-managing the city. Of course the bureaucrats in charge would then be subject to corruption. But at least the council would then be interested in rooting out the corruption, and maybe we wouldn't need the FBI to root out the miscreants. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (LettertoStar-Tribune)
On Sep 11, 2005, at 1:45 PM, George Janssen wrote: Think about it fellow list members. What entity in the city of Minneapolis is that powerful that they can suggest to the FBI when to execute a search warrant and go public on the investigation of a public servant or conversely, can suggest to the FBI that they NOT investigate the criminal removal of $10 million from a public pension fund? /snip/ This entity, in my opinion, is the Minneapolis DFL party and its North side power brokers who administer it. Yes indeedy. Tom Heffelfinger has always been known to be the hand- maiden of the DFL. ROFLMAO Rick Mons Shoreview - Tanglewood Area REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up (LettertoStar-Tribune)
Thanks to white flight throughout the last half of the 20th Century, isolation from core city issues has created more Republicans for the suburbs. More Democrats, etc., for the city proper. More Democrats have been willing to live in a racially integrated city (such as it is) than have Republicans, thus have we seen fear and loathing drive the more conservative minds to the outer ring of the Metro. The red/blue divide is far more urban/suburban than north/south, or east/west. It will ever be thus unless we begin to see regional integration as a prime goal of a stable metropolitan area, thus a more stable Minneapolis. Andy Driscoll Saint Paul -- Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity. Lord Acton on 9/11/05 5:32 PM, David Weinlick wrote: I continue to be amazed by conspiracy theories that revolve around the all powerful DFL. (Of course, I am also amazed when I hear almost as many stories of the party's demise.) The DFL party has a substantial foothold in Minneapolis politics because people vote for DFL candidates. That seems pretty straightforward. I'm not sure where the North side handlers come in, as most other people are concerned about the overrepresented Southwest corner. If this is part of a long DFL conspiracy, why was a DFLer (Herron) the first target? If this was politically motivated, why would someone waste the effort to affect the primary, rather than the general election? Wouldn't that be a much more judicious use of hard-earned influence? And, for those who are frustrated that Zimmermann's reputation is being sullied by these allegations, any implication that this was politically motivated is in turn a smear aimed at DFLer Lilligren. Let's avoid a battle of unsupported allegations and wait to see what comes out of any of this. David Weinlick Armatage George Janssen wrote: Even the most politically naïve amongst us should realize the execution of a search warrant on Minneapolis Council Person Zimmerman, five days before a primary election is politically motivated. Five days is perfect. Time enough before the election that it will be fresh in people's minds but not the day before which EVERYONE would agree to be politically motivated. The one who stands to gain vis-avis Zimmerman (Green) is Lilligren (DFL). The one who stood to gain vis-a-vis Herron (DFL) was Lilligren. Could Lilligren pull this off? Does he have a friend at the FBI? The DOJ? WMarks Exactly! Council Person Lilligren, the golden boy' of the DFL defeat would be a devastating and probably a KO blow to the DFL. With all due respect, you seem to miss the entire gist of my post. It is the Minneapolis DFL machine and their North side handlers who DO have that kind of power. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up
DB wrote: Three words: Brian. Herron. DFLer. C'mon, folks, let's let this one play out. I think a lot of biases on all sides are showing. There aren't enough facts to draw such severe conclusions yet. Ohgood points. My head has not caught up with my heart yet. The allegation against Dean really hurts. It does not help that my book of the week is American Assassination: The Strange Death of Senator Paul Wellstone by Fetzer and Jacobs. I am reminded of In the Spirit of Crazy Horse by Peter Matthiesen and also of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins. Add to that Whiteout: the CIA, Drugs, and the Press by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair and it takes even longer for my head to catch up with my heart on this one. I am still sad and deeply concerned that this may be a kind of political entrapment, but I agree that my biases are certainly showing. -- pedaling, mowing with a reel mower, sweating, and loving it today -- Lynnhurst for now -- Gary Hoover REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Zimmermann bribery allegations a frame-up
Doug Mann wrote: Dean Zimmermann is the target of a politically motivated frame-up and smear campaign being carried out at taxpayers expense. Consider: The timing of the sensational raid on Dean Zimmermann's house to seize documents that are already in the public domain (at a Hennepin County website). The FBI press releases. The evidence presented in reports published by the Star-Tribune. The ulterior motive: Kill the Green Party's chances of holding and gaining seats on the city council this fall. Not that I'm adverse to conspiracy theories (I have a number of my own, including being the subject of a campaign contribution sting ;-) and not that it doesn't make me a little queasy defending the FBI, but has anyone considered that if the FBI had rock solid evidence don't you think that they might have discussed whether to hold off until after the election and then have decided that it was in the interests of an informed electorate that they should proceed with their investigation (not to mention that they might have compromised their case by waiting). Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
