[MT-List] Big software companies and MT
Dear Ms. Maghi, I have asked recently to Lernout and Hauspie to make an offer regarding MT on our portal. My request was very general and we did not proceeded further. I work in a b2b company and we are "potential customers" of MT and translation memory... . I assume in the future there will be a higher request of MT applied on portals and consequently an increased request of this type of service to providers like ibm and others. However, in my opinion, this development is still not very near... . In fact we have to face a quantity of problems related to the coordination of multilingual information first. Moreover, MT has a specific place on the scene of ecommerce, it can be applied to non critical content and offered as value added service... . Nonetheless this technological development and request will be necessary at a later stage, when company will have to offer this "added" service to their portals to remain competitive. I believe one or two years and the time will be mature enough... for the moment, I think, we are still on the ground of an "hypothetical" use of MT on portals... . I hope this may help have a nice day. Giuseppe Giuseppe Gentile Language Manager efoodmanager AG "e-commerce for the food industry" Phone +49 (0) 211 43 90 3 520 Fax +49 (0) 211 43 90 3 100 www.efoodmanager.com -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
RE: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT
Perhaps one way to achieve to some extent a reasonable comparison between MT systems is, to select a group of current MT users with different systems, have them run a test set designed for this purpose, under specific conditions. This shouldn't be too expensive to do. Lou Cremers Océ Technologies B.V. ITC - Translation Servicesname: Lou Cremers Dr Blumenkampstr 3 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 5914 PV Venlo Tel: +31 (0)77-359 34 44 The Netherlands Fax: +31 (0)77-359 54 27 http://www.oce.com > -Original Message- > From: Robert Frederking > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:22 PM > To: John Kohl > Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: Re: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT > > > > The ISLE framework is interesting, but what I need/want is > not just a > > list of criteria and considerations, but the facts as they > pertain to > > the different vendors' products. I think -that- information > is a long > > way from being made readily available. > > This is an interesting point. I have run into this problem in trying > to teach our graduate MT course's lecture on "Commercial MT systems". > It's very difficult to get concrete, useful information from MT > vendors (other than that "ours is the best, you should buy it"). > > Since (it seems to me) any such information will necessarily be all > wrapped up in marketting issues, I wonder how it would be possible to > get straight, reliable information on a range of companies. (That is, > every company clearly wants to look like they are the best.) I know > there has been some discussion of some kind of Consumer Reports for > MT, but this is bound to be expensive to do (independently) in a > serious way. > > I find myself wondering whether anything like this exists for other > commercial software fields. I suspect not, actually. After all, any > serious quality comparison would be damaging to Microsoft. :-) > > So, is there any reliable, independent assessment of commercial > software in other fields? If so, how do they manage to do it? (Or is > it perhaps easier to evaluate other software copared to MT systems?) > > Bob > -- > Robert E. Frederking Senior Systems Scientist > Language Technologies Institute/Center for Machine Translation > Carnegie Mellon University > 5000 Forbes AvenueTelephone: +1-412-268-6656 > Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USA FAX: +1-412-268-6298 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ref/ > > -- > For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html > > -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
MT Evaluation, Was: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT
This is a big topic, much discussed. Of course, to do an evaluation of MT or any other s/w one needs at least: 1. A decision on what dimensions of quality or performance or usability one is interested in. 2. A metric for each of those dimensions. No doubt one important dimension for any MT system is the "quality" of the raw translation, which is itself a veritable Pandora's Box of issues. Nonetheless, many people and organizations have developed translation quality metrics. I was involved in one for the Society of Automotive Engineers. But I think there are other important dimensions to consider as well. And just because it is difficult to arrive at a decision about what is valuable to measure, and then how to measure those things, it does not follow that it is impossible or not worth the effort. In fact, I think the value is well worth the high effort involved. And I *know* that it is possible to develop a reasonably objective metric. Kurt Godden Director of Linguistics JustTalk, Inc. Ann Arbor, MI www.justtalk.com On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:22:01 -0500, Bob Frederking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I know > there has been some discussion of some kind of Consumer Reports for > MT, but this is bound to be expensive to do (independently) in a > serious way. > > I find myself wondering whether anything like this exists for other > commercial software fields. I suspect not, actually. After all, any > serious quality comparison would be damaging to Microsoft. :-) > > So, is there any reliable, independent assessment of commercial > software in other fields? If so, how do they manage to do it? (Or is > it perhaps easier to evaluate other software copared to MT systems?) > > Bob > -- > Robert E. Frederking Senior Systems Scientist > Language Technologies Institute/Center for Machine Translation > Carnegie Mellon University > 5000 Forbes Avenue Telephone: +1-412-268-6656 > Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USAFAX: +1-412-268-6298 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ref/ > > -- >For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html ___ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
Re: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT
> The ISLE framework is interesting, but what I need/want is not just a > list of criteria and considerations, but the facts as they pertain to > the different vendors' products. I think -that- information is a long > way from being made readily available. This is an interesting point. I have run into this problem in trying to teach our graduate MT course's lecture on "Commercial MT systems". It's very difficult to get concrete, useful information from MT vendors (other than that "ours is the best, you should buy it"). Since (it seems to me) any such information will necessarily be all wrapped up in marketting issues, I wonder how it would be possible to get straight, reliable information on a range of companies. (That is, every company clearly wants to look like they are the best.) I know there has been some discussion of some kind of Consumer Reports for MT, but this is bound to be expensive to do (independently) in a serious way. I find myself wondering whether anything like this exists for other commercial software fields. I suspect not, actually. After all, any serious quality comparison would be damaging to Microsoft. :-) So, is there any reliable, independent assessment of commercial software in other fields? If so, how do they manage to do it? (Or is it perhaps easier to evaluate other software copared to MT systems?) Bob -- Robert E. FrederkingSenior Systems Scientist Language Technologies Institute/Center for Machine Translation Carnegie Mellon University 5000 Forbes Avenue Telephone: +1-412-268-6656 Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USA FAX: +1-412-268-6298 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ref/ -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
Re: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT
- Original Message - From: "Maghi King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > One thing that has struck me is that some big companies are getting > involved in different ways: translation buttons appearing all over the > place, for example, or IBM re-launching its TM system and launching a > commercial MT system. Does anybody have a feeling that there is in general > a growing interest amongst the big software companies, or even know of > interesting recent developments? Maybe L&H's problems will put them off? I think there are two major factors related to increased interest in automated translation methods. The first is the continued massive growth in internet use for sales, support, and infrastructure. Companies can reach customers, suppliers, and employees located around the world faster and easier than ever before. Since the web is designed for global access, posting any item makes in (theoretically) available to the entire world. No more printing costs, shipment of marketing materials etc. to reach regional customers. Given the shrinking world and globally expanding economy, most big companies -must- reach customers around the world, and find that the web helps save money in some areas. But localization for reaching those targets is still required, and dealing with multilingual web sites is complex. Workflow is a huge issue. Creation of tools to help deal with this complexity is on the rise. Money saved in other ways must now be spent on managing the multilingual sites, so optimization methods are in high demand. The second issue is the emergence of XML and related standards. XML will be one of the key technologies which will drive the development of all CAT tools, web workflow tools, and all web-based software applications. XML and it's accompanying technologies effectively performs the task of separating content/data from all delivery and processing components. Since separation of code and content is a huge piece to the localization puzzle, ongoing developments in this arena are helping to make localization processes more efficient and affordable. So developing automated methods is becoming easier. I therefore believe that some of the primary reasons you are seeing an increase of interest by large companies is that the technology timing is right. Market and business imperatives demand it, and the technology is getting closer and closer to being able to provide it. Just my two cents. Suzanne --++ Suzanne Topping BizWonk Inc. (TM) Solutions for a Global E-conomy Phone: +1 716.454.4210 Fax: +1 716.454.4213 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Send me an email to join the North East Localization Special Interest Group, an email distribution list which acts as a discussion forum for localization issues.) -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
Re: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT
Dear Maghi and all, I can report serious growth and I think if you check how much personnel the translation software developers are adding in the last couple of years you will understand that translation software (I don't like either MT or TM as a term, it certainly doesn't fit our product) is a fast growing market and by no means surviving off research funds. In fact people like me find it completely wrong that industry is sponsored by any public funds and feel sometimes that I'm being forced to apply, especially with the new EU call on E-Content. My view is that translation software Research should be in universities, since the issues that aren't solved are so many. All evaluation at this stage is very local - no one can be on top of things that are happening anymore and developers like me have no wish to inform the world about what they are doing and there is no feel that this will provide market exposure. The main issue is that things are getting serious, official evaluations warn our competition as to what we are doing and we judge it to be more important to avoid this. You ask about large companies, yes, very big companies are seriously interested in translation software (even from the development perspective, not only the user prespective like SAS). My contacts like their privacy as I do and thus I will not name them. Finally, the L&H crisis has had no negative effect, on the other hand I think that the publicity they managed to provide to the market before the crisis was very beneficial and perhaps the main reason for the upswing we are getting. The integration of Systran into Web engines is another factor. No one is laughing at bad translation jokes anymore and we have internet companies standing in line to become multilingual. Finally, stories like our own, with fully automatic translation solutions into and from all the EU languages helps. Our old system has now been producing translations daily for almost 3 years - and there isn't a IPR lawyer globally that hasn't received our translations at one time or another. As for news about us without revealing any secrets - our new system has a final delivery to the EU next week and will be in production by May - touch wood :-)) - so even the EU has 3 contracted translation software systems inside its walls - Systran, Trados and ESTeam Translator. Our staff is three times bigger than February 2000. hopefully see you at the MT-Summit Gudrun Magnusdottir ESTeam AB Maghi King wrote: > Hello Everybody! > > As some of you know, I'm working on a project that involves assessing the > present state of the art in the use of technology to support translation > and localisation. > > One thing that has struck me is that some big companies are getting > involved in different ways: translation buttons appearing all over the > place, for example, or IBM re-launching its TM system and launching a > commercial MT system. Does anybody have a feeling that there is in general > a growing interest amongst the big software companies, or even know of > interesting recent developments? Maybe L&H's problems will put them off? > > Thanks a lot for any answers! > > Maghi > -- > IMPORTANT: ISSCO has moved (from 28th September 1999) > AND my phone number keeps changing. Please check that you have the latest > one below. > > Maghi King | E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > TIM/ISSCO, ETI > University of Geneva| WWW: http://issco-www.unige.ch/ > 40 blvd du Pont d'Arve | Tel: +41/22/705 87 55 > CH-1211 GENEVA 4 (Switzerland) | Fax: +41/22/781 86 89 > > -- > For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
Re: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT
Maghi, I am also working in an European project (MLIS) with Systran. My group is mainly working on automatic extraction of linguistic information from parallel and non-parallel texts. This will enable the inhancement of lexicons production, be either for single word and multiword lexical units. The quality of translation will also improve quite rapidly. About the interest of various companies on MT I have also observed that but I do not have any plausible explanation except that new challenges are created for CLIR e-learning, etc., etc. Best regards, Gabriel Pereira Lopes Departamento de Informática Faculdade de Ciências e Tecnologia Universidade Nova de Lisboa Quinta da Torre 2825-114 Caparica Portugal Phone: 351 21 294 8536 fax: 351 21 294 8541 Maghi King wrote: > Hello Everybody! > > As some of you know, I'm working on a project that involves assessing the > present state of the art in the use of technology to support translation > and localisation. > > One thing that has struck me is that some big companies are getting > involved in different ways: translation buttons appearing all over the > place, for example, or IBM re-launching its TM system and launching a > commercial MT system. Does anybody have a feeling that there is in general > a growing interest amongst the big software companies, or even know of > interesting recent developments? Maybe L&H's problems will put them off? > > Thanks a lot for any answers! > > Maghi > -- > IMPORTANT: ISSCO has moved (from 28th September 1999) > AND my phone number keeps changing. Please check that you have the latest > one below. > > Maghi King | E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > TIM/ISSCO, ETI > University of Geneva| WWW: http://issco-www.unige.ch/ > 40 blvd du Pont d'Arve | Tel: +41/22/705 87 55 > CH-1211 GENEVA 4 (Switzerland) | Fax: +41/22/781 86 89 > > -- > For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
RE: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT
Hello Maghi and others, My employer, SAS, is a fairly large, privately owned software company with annual sales of about USD 1.1 billion (that's billion as in thousand million). I have been investigating Controlled English authoring tools (mainly those developed by Smart, LANT, and the Carnegie Mellon Language Technologies Institute) on the company's behalf and have found out in the course of my investigation that a couple of much larger, publicly held software companies are also investigating CE tools. I don't know whether these other companies are also investigating MT, but here at SAS, the new director of our Software Globalization Division is very interested in it. Like a lot of other software companies, we are doing more and more translation, and the director is alarmed by how much it costs. Our translators have been using TM for a couple of years, and we are just starting to reap some cost savings from that. Although I have urged SAS for eight years to investigate CE and MT, I am not sure the language technology industry is mature enough for me to want to see SAS actually start using these technologies yet. It's still much too difficult to get the kind of detailed information that I need from the CE and MT vendors. (It's hard to figure out what questions to ask, but you would think that they would offer more details to help educate their prospective clients and to alleviate some of the clients' uncertainties.) There are still far too many unknowns, and far too many "pieces" to integrate. It seems you have to do a pilot project before you can know what you are getting into, and the question is, what combination of tools do you use for the pilot? The ISLE framework is interesting, but what I need/want is not just a list of criteria and considerations, but the facts as they pertain to the different vendors' products. I think -that- information is a long way from being made readily available. Nevertheless, I have been directed to pursue these investigations, so I will have a better idea of "what's out there" in a few months, I suppose. Regards, John Kohl, Senior Editor SAS J2122 SAS Campus Drive Cary, NC 27513 USA 919.531.6149 fax: 919.677. http://www.sas.com SAS... The Power to Know > -Original Message- > From: Maghi King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 9:43 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT > > > Hello Everybody! > > As some of you know, I'm working on a project that involves > assessing the > present state of the art in the use of technology to support > translation > and localisation. > > One thing that has struck me is that some big companies are getting > involved in different ways: translation buttons appearing all over the > place, for example, or IBM re-launching its TM system and launching a > commercial MT system. Does anybody have a feeling that there > is in general > a growing interest amongst the big software companies, or even know of > interesting recent developments? Maybe L&H's problems will > put them off? > > Thanks a lot for any answers! > > Maghi > -- > IMPORTANT: ISSCO has moved (from 28th September 1999) > AND my phone number keeps changing. Please check that you > have the latest > one below. > > Maghi King| E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > TIM/ISSCO, ETI > University of Geneva | WWW: http://issco-www.unige.ch/ > 40 blvd du Pont d'Arve| Tel: +41/22/705 87 55 > CH-1211 GENEVA 4 (Switzerland)| Fax: +41/22/781 86 89 > > -- > For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html > -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
Re: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT
In anything really. I was just wondering if there was a trend developing. Maghi Suzanne Topping wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Maghi King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > One thing that has struck me is that some big companies are getting > > involved in different ways: translation buttons appearing all over the > > place, for example, or IBM re-launching its TM system and launching a > > commercial MT system. Does anybody have a feeling that there is in general > > a growing interest amongst the big software companies, or even know of > > interesting recent developments? Maybe L&H's problems will put them off? > > Are you interested specifically in MT, or in CAT technologies as well? > > -- > For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- IMPORTANT: ISSCO has moved (from 28th September 1999) AND my phone number keeps changing. Please check that you have the latest one below. Maghi King | E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TIM/ISSCO, ETI University of Geneva| WWW: http://issco-www.unige.ch/ 40 blvd du Pont d'Arve | Tel: +41/22/705 87 55 CH-1211 GENEVA 4 (Switzerland) | Fax: +41/22/781 86 89 -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
Re: [MT-List] Big software companies and MT
- Original Message - From: "Maghi King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > One thing that has struck me is that some big companies are getting > involved in different ways: translation buttons appearing all over the > place, for example, or IBM re-launching its TM system and launching a > commercial MT system. Does anybody have a feeling that there is in general > a growing interest amongst the big software companies, or even know of > interesting recent developments? Maybe L&H's problems will put them off? Are you interested specifically in MT, or in CAT technologies as well? -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
[MT-List] Big software companies and MT
Hello Everybody! As some of you know, I'm working on a project that involves assessing the present state of the art in the use of technology to support translation and localisation. One thing that has struck me is that some big companies are getting involved in different ways: translation buttons appearing all over the place, for example, or IBM re-launching its TM system and launching a commercial MT system. Does anybody have a feeling that there is in general a growing interest amongst the big software companies, or even know of interesting recent developments? Maybe L&H's problems will put them off? Thanks a lot for any answers! Maghi -- IMPORTANT: ISSCO has moved (from 28th September 1999) AND my phone number keeps changing. Please check that you have the latest one below. Maghi King | E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TIM/ISSCO, ETI University of Geneva| WWW: http://issco-www.unige.ch/ 40 blvd du Pont d'Arve | Tel: +41/22/705 87 55 CH-1211 GENEVA 4 (Switzerland) | Fax: +41/22/781 86 89 -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
