Re: [Multimedia] Less intrusive video player icon

2014-11-14 Thread quiddity 
On video, 2 quick notes:
I've filed a bug, mostly just to collate the discussion so far (or in case
of random volunteers!  If this is simple enough to be a GSOC/etc task (I
don't know), please add any helpful notes to that bug :)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73438

and that it's being discussed afresh (mostly just a reiteration of the
previous comments) at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#Less_intrusive_video_player_icon



On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:58 AM, James Forrester 
wrote:

> On 6 November 2014 01:05, Brian Wolff  wrote:
>
>> On 11/5/14, James Forrester  wrote:
>> > On 4 November 2014 23:12, quiddity  wrote:
>> >
>> >> I think the ideas in the onwiki thread were more along the lines of:
>> >> * Putting a control-bar along the bottom of the thumbnail, with video
>> >> controls, like the audio files have. e.g.
>> >>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:My_Bloody_Valentine_-_Last_Supper.ogg
>> >>
>> >
>> > No. Adding yet more gunk to the page is a really terrible idea,
>> violating
>> > the fundamental principles of only showing more stuff on the page when
>> > strictly needed. Good point though, the bad display does need to be
>> fixed
>> > for audio files.
>> >
>>
>> There's already a control bar on some video files if you hover your
>> mouse over them (It depends which code path is triggered. It happens
>> on videos with big enough thumbnails that they aren't opened in a new
>> window. This is true for most image pages).
>>
>> I'm unclear on what specifically you are objecting to on audio files.
>> Are you not liking the "Menu" button?
>>
>
> No, the menu button is fine; indeed,
> it's pretty much everything else that's wrong with it. :-)
>
>
> Each audio file transclusion has in its "rest" non-hover state the entire
> set of playback controls, which isn't what we do for videos (even, as you
> say, the ones where the preview is "big enough", where we only show these
> controls on hover).
>
> Per
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MediaWiki_audio_file_transclusion_%E2%80%93_on-load_screenshot.png
>  which
> I just took, the interface:
>
>
>- shows a time offset from the start, which provides no value before
>it starts playing;
>- shows a "CC" button for closed captions which shows in the exact
>same state even when there aren't any;
>- shows a compound volume/mute button which adds more complexity; and
>yet
>- doesn't tell you (except implicitly by not showing a picture) that
>it's an audio.
>
> See *e.g.* the BBC for how audio excerpts can be shown with a simple
> audio play icon to activate the toolbar and everything else instead, with
> must less visual noise and clutter (most viewers of the article aren't here
> to listen to the audio/video files, *etc.*):
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30016007
>
> J.
> --
> James D. Forrester
> Product Manager, Editing
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
> [email protected] | @jdforrester
>
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>
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Re: [Multimedia] Less intrusive video player icon

2014-11-12 Thread James Forrester 
On 6 November 2014 01:05, Brian Wolff  wrote:

> On 11/5/14, James Forrester  wrote:
> > On 4 November 2014 23:12, quiddity  wrote:
> >
> >> I think the ideas in the onwiki thread were more along the lines of:
> >> * Putting a control-bar along the bottom of the thumbnail, with video
> >> controls, like the audio files have. e.g.
> >>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:My_Bloody_Valentine_-_Last_Supper.ogg
> >>
> >
> > No. ​Adding​ yet more gunk to the page is a really terrible idea,
> violating
> > the fundamental principles of only showing more stuff on the page when
> > strictly needed. Good point though, the bad display does need to be fixed
> > for audio files.
> >
>
> There's already a control bar on some video files if you hover your
> mouse over them (It depends which code path is triggered. It happens
> on videos with big enough thumbnails that they aren't opened in a new
> window. This is true for most image pages).
>
> I'm unclear on what specifically you are objecting to on audio files.
> Are you not liking the "Menu" button?
>

​No, the menu button is fine; indeed,​
​ it's pretty much everything else that's wrong with it. :-)​


​Each audio file transclusion has in its "rest" non-hover state the entire
set of playback controls, which isn't what we do for videos​ (even, as you
say, the ones where the preview is "big enough", where we only show these
controls on hover).

Per
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MediaWiki_audio_file_transclusion_%E2%80%93_on-load_screenshot.png
which
I just took, the interface:


   - shows a time offset from the start, which provides no value before it
   starts playing;
   - shows a "CC" button for closed captions which shows in the exact same
   state even when there aren't any;
   - shows a compound volume/mute button which adds more complexity; and yet
   - doesn't tell you (except implicitly by not showing a picture) that
   it's an audio.

​See *e.g.* the BBC for how audio excerpts can be shown with a simple audio
play icon to activate the toolbar and everything else instead, with must
less visual noise and clutter (most viewers of the article aren't here to
listen to the audio/video files, *etc.*):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30016007

​J.​
-- 
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, Editing
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

[email protected] | @jdforrester
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Re: [Multimedia] Less intrusive video player icon

2014-11-05 Thread Brian Wolff 
On 11/5/14, James Forrester  wrote:
> On 4 November 2014 23:12, quiddity  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Brian Wolff  wrote:
>>
>>> I actually don't think changing the video play button would be a good
>>> idea. Its important that users realize the file is a playable video.
>>> Having a prominent play icon is consistent with other sites (e.g.
>>> youtube), although arguably most other sites aren't using the
>>> thumbnail to also illustrate an article. If we were to do something
>>> along these lines, I would think having it be a non-default mode would
>>> be best, where the users could toggle discrete play button mode where
>>> the play button goes into the bottom corner or something.
>>>
>>>
>> I think the ideas in the onwiki thread were more along the lines of:
>> * Putting a control-bar along the bottom of the thumbnail, with video
>> controls, like the audio files have. e.g.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:My_Bloody_Valentine_-_Last_Supper.ogg
>>
>
> No. ​Adding​ yet more gunk to the page is a really terrible idea, violating
> the fundamental principles of only showing more stuff on the page when
> strictly needed. Good point though, the bad display does need to be fixed
> for audio files.
>

There's already a control bar on some video files if you hover your
mouse over them (It depends which code path is triggered. It happens
on videos with big enough thumbnails that they aren't opened in a new
window. This is true for most image pages).

I'm unclear on what specifically you are objecting to on audio files.
Are you not liking the "Menu" button?

--bawolff

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Re: [Multimedia] Less intrusive video player icon

2014-11-05 Thread Jan Ainali 
2014-11-05 23:24 GMT+01:00 James Forrester :

>
>
> Moving the play button around, is much more an option. Again, I don't
> think adding more cruft is a good idea, but e.g. bottom-left without a
> timeslider, like BBC News does it, is also an option:
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29919793​
>
>
This one was really nice. Moving it down to the corner makes it worth while
chosing a meaningful thumbtime for the video, giving the viewer a hint of
what the video is about so that a more informed decision whether or not to
start it can be made. Totally obvious it is a video, and hardly no clutter
at all. This might be a winner, considering the thumbnails are fairly small
in our projects, comparing to embeds of Youtube which seldom is smaller
than 400 pixels wide.
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Re: [Multimedia] Less intrusive video player icon

2014-11-05 Thread James Forrester 
On 4 November 2014 23:12, quiddity  wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Brian Wolff  wrote:
>
>> I actually don't think changing the video play button would be a good
>> idea. Its important that users realize the file is a playable video.
>> Having a prominent play icon is consistent with other sites (e.g.
>> youtube), although arguably most other sites aren't using the
>> thumbnail to also illustrate an article. If we were to do something
>> along these lines, I would think having it be a non-default mode would
>> be best, where the users could toggle discrete play button mode where
>> the play button goes into the bottom corner or something.
>>
>>
> I think the ideas in the onwiki thread were more along the lines of:
> * Putting a control-bar along the bottom of the thumbnail, with video
> controls, like the audio files have. e.g.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:My_Bloody_Valentine_-_Last_Supper.ogg
>

No. ​Adding​ yet more gunk to the page is a really terrible idea, violating
the fundamental principles of only showing more stuff on the page when
strictly needed. Good point though, the bad display does need to be fixed
for audio files.



> and/or
> * Place the play-button-overlay somewhere other than the middle-center.
> Perhaps bottom-center. Or bottom-left with a timeslider, like vimeo uses.
> https://vimeo.com/104966526
>

Moving the play button around, is much more an option. Again, I don't think
adding more cruft is a good idea, but e.g. bottom-left without a
timeslider, like BBC News does it, is also an option:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29919793​

In Vimeo their *raison d'être* is for you to watch a video, so like with
YouTube their interfaces are geared towards a totally different user
outcome. Better examples are other news/reference sites, and YouTube/Vimeo
*embeds* where the objective again is to provide an informational video
which also illustrates the content, rather than


   - YouTube embeds have a centred play button (with YouTube logo in the
   bottom right)
   - CNN.com has a centred play button (with words)
   - MSNBC.com has a top-left play button (with words)
   - CBC.ca has a centred play button (no words)

Etc.

J.
-- 
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, Editing
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

[email protected] | @jdforrester
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Re: [Multimedia] Less intrusive video player icon

2014-11-04 Thread quiddity 
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Brian Wolff  wrote:

> I actually don't think changing the video play button would be a good
> idea. Its important that users realize the file is a playable video.
> Having a prominent play icon is consistent with other sites (e.g.
> youtube), although arguably most other sites aren't using the
> thumbnail to also illustrate an article. If we were to do something
> along these lines, I would think having it be a non-default mode would
> be best, where the users could toggle discrete play button mode where
> the play button goes into the bottom corner or something.
>
>
I think the ideas in the onwiki thread were more along the lines of:
* Putting a control-bar along the bottom of the thumbnail, with video
controls, like the audio files have. e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:My_Bloody_Valentine_-_Last_Supper.ogg
and/or
* Place the play-button-overlay somewhere other than the middle-center.
Perhaps bottom-center. Or bottom-left with a timeslider, like vimeo uses.
https://vimeo.com/104966526

(I understand the lack of time to work on this. Just discussing it further
to get the ideas written out somewhere. :)
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Re: [Multimedia] Less intrusive video player icon

2014-11-03 Thread Brian Wolff 
I actually don't think changing the video play button would be a good
idea. Its important that users realize the file is a playable video.
Having a prominent play icon is consistent with other sites (e.g.
youtube), although arguably most other sites aren't using the
thumbnail to also illustrate an article. If we were to do something
along these lines, I would think having it be a non-default mode would
be best, where the users could toggle discrete play button mode where
the play button goes into the bottom corner or something.

--bawolff

On 11/3/14, Fabrice Florin  wrote:
> Hi Nick,
>
> Thanks for the update about this video player icon issue.
>
> Sadly, our multimedia team is still spread very thin, and we've had to push
> back any audio or video work to next fiscal year, with a very heavy heart.
> :(
>
> That said, this seems like a relatively easy fix to make, so perhaps we
> could look at it first when we start looking at video again next year.
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Fabrice
>
>
>> On Oct 31, 2014, at 12:41 PM, quiddity  wrote:
>>
>> interesting short thread/idea here, regarding the "play icon" overlay on
>> video thumbnails.  To somehow make it less dominating:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28idea_lab%29#Less_intrusive_video_player_icon
>> 
>>
>> I think this has been discussed before, but I forget where. Perhaps
>> someone here could summarize the options and pros/cons, or can find links
>> to older threads?
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>
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> Product Manager, Multimedia
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Fabrice_Florin_(WMF)
>
>
>
>


-- 
--
- Brian
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

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Re: [Multimedia] Less intrusive video player icon

2014-11-03 Thread Fabrice Florin 
Hi Nick,

Thanks for the update about this video player icon issue.

Sadly, our multimedia team is still spread very thin, and we've had to push 
back any audio or video work to next fiscal year, with a very heavy heart. :(

That said, this seems like a relatively easy fix to make, so perhaps we could 
look at it first when we start looking at video again next year.

All the best,


Fabrice


> On Oct 31, 2014, at 12:41 PM, quiddity  wrote:
> 
> interesting short thread/idea here, regarding the "play icon" overlay on 
> video thumbnails.  To somehow make it less dominating: 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28idea_lab%29#Less_intrusive_video_player_icon
>  
> 
>  
> I think this has been discussed before, but I forget where. Perhaps someone 
> here could summarize the options and pros/cons, or can find links to older 
> threads?
> ___
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Wikimedia Foundation

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Fabrice_Florin_(WMF)



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[Multimedia] Less intrusive video player icon

2014-10-31 Thread quiddity 
interesting short thread/idea here, regarding the "play icon" overlay on
video thumbnails.  To somehow make it less dominating:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28idea_lab%29#Less_intrusive_video_player_icon
I think this has been discussed before, but I forget where. Perhaps someone
here could summarize the options and pros/cons, or can find links to older
threads?
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