[music-dsp] Frequency-dependent latency of a filter

2011-03-17 Thread Andreas Beisler
Hi. After having worked in the field of musicdsp quite some years, there is still one mysterium left: phase shift. The actual task at hand is to estimate the frequency-dependent latency of an LTI filter. For a bunch of filters (i.e. butterworth LP) it works rather well by just calling Matlab's

Re: [music-dsp] Frequency-dependent latency of a filter

2011-03-17 Thread Wen X
As far as causality is concerned it's the *group* delay that should be non-negative. Phase delay assumes sinusoidal inputs over (-inf, inf) for which whether a system is causal makes no difference. -Original Message- From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu

Re: [music-dsp] Frequency-dependent latency of a filter

2011-03-17 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On Mar 17, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Wen X wrote: As far as causality is concerned it's the *group* delay that should be non-negative. well, even group delay is negative with the peaking filters, for *some* frequencies. with group delay, there is no issue of phase unwrapping since the phase

Re: [music-dsp] Frequency-dependent latency of a filter

2011-03-17 Thread Wen X
From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu [mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of robert bristow-johnson well, even group delay is negative with the peaking filters, for *some* frequencies. Yes, but only if the filter has high (negative?) dispersion at that

Re: [music-dsp] Frequency-dependent latency of a filter

2011-03-17 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On Mar 17, 2011, at 12:00 PM, Wen X wrote: From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu [mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of robert bristow-johnson well, even group delay is negative with the peaking filters, for *some* frequencies. Yes, but only if the filter

Re: [music-dsp] Frequency-dependent latency of a filter

2011-03-17 Thread xue wen
Yes, but only if the filter has high (negative?) dispersion at that frequency. i'm not sure what that means. my understanding of dispersion would be a rapid change of phase or delay vs. frequency. my understanding is if different frequenices are delayed by different *time* then you

Re: [music-dsp] Frequency-dependent latency of a filter

2011-03-17 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On Mar 17, 2011, at 2:27 PM, xue wen wrote: Yes, but only if the filter has high (negative?) dispersion at that frequency. i'm not sure what that means. my understanding of dispersion would be a rapid change of phase or delay vs. frequency. my understanding is if different

Re: [music-dsp] music-dsp Digest, Vol 87, Issue 10

2011-03-17 Thread Andreas Beisler
my understanding is if different frequenices are delayed by different *time* then you have dispersion. in this sense the group delay as a function of frequency can be written as an average group delay (non-negative if causal) plus a zero-mean item characterizing dispersion, so that if this item