Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators

2017-10-16 Thread Alan Wolfe
I was just about to suggest that maybe something like a low discrepancy sequence could be interesting to explore - such as the golden ratio (which strongly relates to fib of course!). On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Andy Farnell wrote: > > Bit late to the thread,

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators

2017-10-16 Thread Andy Farnell
Bit late to the thread, but if you look around Pd archives you will find a patch called Fiboverb that I made about 2006/7. As you surmise, the relative co-primality of fib(n) sequence has great properties for diffuse reverbs. Just reading about the proposed Go spacing idea, seems very

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 solution?

2017-10-02 Thread Scott Gravenhorst
music-dsp@music.columbia.edu wrote: >             D          2D >|     1     |  2        | >|     |     |  |  1     | >|_|_|__|__|_|_ >            g___|  | >            {__| > >           

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 solution?

2017-10-02 Thread gm
    D  2D | 1 |  2    | | | |  |  1 | |_|_|__|__|_|_    g___|  |    {__|    a__| |    {| So, why is g= ln(2) the best solution? So far, we haven't scaled g, the ratio of the first

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 solution?

2017-10-02 Thread gm
Am 02.10.2017 um 04:42 schrieb Stefan Sullivan: Forgive me if you said this already, but did you try negative feedback values? I wonder what that does to the aesthetics of the reverb. Stefan yes... but it's not recommended for the loop unless it's part of a feedback matrix you get half the

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 solution?

2017-10-01 Thread Stefan Sullivan
Forgive me if you said this already, but did you try negative feedback values? I wonder what that does to the aesthetics of the reverb. Stefan On Oct 1, 2017 16:24, "gm" wrote: > and here's the impulse response, large 4APs Early- > 3AP Loop > > its pretty smooth without

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 solution?

2017-10-01 Thread gm
and here's the impulse response, large 4APs Early- > 3AP Loop its pretty smooth without tweaking anything manually https://soundcloud.com/traumlos_kalt/whd-ln2-impresponse/s-d1ArU the autocorrelation and autoconvolution are also very good Am 02.10.2017 um 00:45 schrieb gm: So... Heres my

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 solution?

2017-10-01 Thread gm
Am 02.10.2017 um 00:45 schrieb gm: Formal proof outstanding. sorry, weird Germanism, read that as "missing" please ___ dupswapdrop: music-dsp mailing list music-dsp@music.columbia.edu https://lists.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 solution?

2017-10-01 Thread gm
Am 01.10.2017 um 18:35 schrieb gm: Counterintutively, there is no solution for g=a for N =2 (except g=a=1); (the solution for g=a and N=3 is 1/golden ratio ) make that phi^2 = 0.382..ect For those who didnt follow, after all this I now postulate that *ratio = 1/ ( N - ln(2) +1) * with N =

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-10-01 Thread gm
Am 01.10.2017 um 16:52 schrieb gm: So I tested a familiy of numbers based on a = ln(2) that should read g= ln(2); (a ~= 0.76597) It seems one of the best, but why? Counterintutively, there is no solution for g=a for N =2 (except g=a=1); (the solution for g=a and N=3 is 1/golden ratio )

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-10-01 Thread gm
Am 30.09.2017 um 22:44 schrieb Stefan Sullivan: Sometimes the simplest approach is the best approach. Sounds like a good reverb paper to me. Some user evaluation and references to standard papers and  That would be a paper on numerology then... I generalized a bit: Na - 1 = a*g a = 1 /

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-30 Thread Stefan Sullivan
Sometimes the simplest approach is the best approach. Sounds like a good reverb paper to me. Some user evaluation and references to standard papers and  On Sep 29, 2017 8:51 AM, "gm" wrote: > It's a totally naive laymans approach > I hope the formatting stays in place. >

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-29 Thread gm
Am 29.09.2017 um 17:50 schrieb gm: For instance you can make noise loops with randomizing all phases by FFT in circular convolution that sound very reverberated. to clarify: I ment noise loops from sample material, a kind of time strech, but with totally uncorrelated phases

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-29 Thread gm
It's a totally naive laymans approach I hope the formatting stays in place. The feedback delay in the loop folds the signal back so we have periods of a comb filter. |  |  |  | |__|__|__|___ Now we want to fill the period densly with impulses:

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #3 the lagged Fibonacci

2017-09-29 Thread gm
Am 29.09.2017 um 02:48 schrieb gm: Another idea is to alter the Go method as follows instead of Na mod 1 = a/2 Na mod 1 = a*0.618... and Na mod 1 = 1- a*0.382... respectively Some observations: It's the same as 1/(1 + 0.382..) for N=2 This seems to do what Fibonacci does, it fills the line

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-29 Thread gm
And, "The simplest digital reverberator is nothing more than a delay of 30 msec." Am 29.09.2017 um 13:16 schrieb STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN: Maybe that’s because of Hal Chamberlin, who wrote in his book “Musical Applications of Microprocessors”, 2nd ed., p. 508: “Perhaps the simplest, yet most

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-29 Thread STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN
Maybe that’s because of Hal Chamberlin, who wrote in his book “Musical Applications of Microprocessors”, 2nd ed., p. 508: “Perhaps the simplest, yet most effective, digital signal-processing function is the simulation of reverberation”. There you are. ;-) Best, Steffan > On

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-29 Thread gm
ay ratios or feedback ratios – maybe I didn’t look closed enough. *From:*music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu [mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] *On Behalf Of *gm *Sent:* 28. september 2017 18:41 *To:* music-dsp@music.columbia.edu *Subject:* Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-29 Thread Martin Lind
: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu [mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of gm Sent: 28. september 2017 18:41 To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach But this ratio scheme actually is the result

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #3 the lagged Fibonacci

2017-09-28 Thread gm
Another idea is to alter the Go method as follows instead of Na mod 1 = a/2 Na mod 1 = a*0.618... and Na mod 1 = 1- a*0.382... respectively to get rid of the detuning procedure a quick listening test seems promising, but I haven't investigated it in depth yet

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #3 the lagged Fibonacci

2017-09-28 Thread gm
Now back to the orginal question, why doesn't the scheme that follows the lagged Fibonacci generator achieve better results then my "Go" method? Somehow the analogy between the simplified model  +-> [AP Diffusor AP1] -> [AP Diffusor Ap2] -> [Delay D] ->  |   

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-28 Thread gm
Now that I had to explain it I realize a few more things It has some interesting properties not just on the echo density but also on the phase delays (of course these are related somehow). the untuned pitches are [-12] -7.02. -15.86 -21.68 ... and -3.86, -9.68, -14.04 ...  and inverted

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-28 Thread gm
Am 28.09.2017 um 17:18 schrieb Martin Lind: To get a realistic (or a musical for matter) sounding reverb it will include thousands of listening tests with various test signals - I haven't seen any 'automated' or any particular strategy for tuning reverbs in the wild other than extensive

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-28 Thread Martin Lind
[mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of gm Sent: 28. september 2017 16:47 To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach And here's how I've been doing it before the RNG approach, I present you: The Go

Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach

2017-09-28 Thread STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN
I think, this structure you mentioned (2 AP filter + delay and a feedback node) has been investigated by Bill Gardner. I used this structure, too, but it took 4 allpass filter to make it work. But still it has a repetitive sound, which goes away, if the feedback factor approaches 1.0. So, it’s

[music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators

2017-09-27 Thread gm
I have this idée fixe that a reverb bears some resemblance with some types of random number generators especially the lagged Fibonacci generator. Consider the simplified model reverb block  +-> [AP Diffusor AP1] -> [AP Diffusor Ap2] -> [Delay D] ->  |