Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Urs Heckmann
On 23.06.2014, at 06:37, robert bristow-johnson r...@audioimagination.com wrote: the other thing Urs brought up for discussion is an iterative and recursive process that converges on a result value, given an input. i am saying that this can be rolled out into a non-recursive equivalent,

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Andrew Simper
On 23 June 2014 17:11, Ivan Cohen ivan.co...@orosys.fr wrote: Hello everybody ! I may be able to clarify a little the confusion here... Thanks Ivan for your great email contribution. I will only reply to the one and only correction / clarification to what I have posted previously. The

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Theo Verelst
Always good to have a nice interaction about the theoretical basis of scientific work, and related practical implementations, isn't it ? TO add a little positive note to the whole story, after maybe having bashed some peoples' work in a theoretically limited corner too much for their

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On 6/23/14 1:18 AM, Andrew Simper wrote: On 23 June 2014 12:37, robert bristow-johnsonr...@audioimagination.com wrote: Andy and Urs, i have been making consistent and clear points and challenges and the response is not addressing these squarely. let's do the Sallen-Key challenge, Andy.

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Andrew Simper
On 23 June 2014 19:43, Andrew Simper a...@cytomic.com wrote: On 23 June 2014 17:11, Ivan Cohen ivan.co...@orosys.fr wrote: Hello everybody ! I may be able to clarify a little the confusion here... Thanks Ivan for your great email contribution. I will only reply to the one and only

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Andrew Simper
Here is a quote from one of my first replies to you Robert: -- of course a VCF driven by a constantly changing LFO waveform (or its digital model) is a different thing. i was responding to the case where there is an otherwise-stable filter connected to a knob. sometimes the knob gets

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Andrew Simper
Ok, but where does On 23 June 2014 22:59, robert bristow-johnson r...@audioimagination.com wrote: On 6/23/14 10:50 AM, Andrew Simper wrote: Ok, I'm still stumped here. Can someone please show me a reference to how the bi-linear transform is created without using trapezoidal integration?

Re: [music-dsp] usable latency, was Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Rich Breen
Several things: On Jun 22, 2014, at 7:07 AM, music-dsp-requ...@music.columbia.edu wrote: ... Out of interest, what is your latency measurement method of choice? ... Do you think they notice below 2ms? Ross. Nothing fancy for measurement; split an impulse to 2 channels of a DAW; one

Re: [music-dsp] usable latency, was Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Jon Boley
Hey guys, I tend to lurk in the background on this list, but the topic of delay / latency is one that I am particularly interested in. A colleague and I did a small study years ago... perhaps this can serve as some actual data to get the conversation going. There are some things I would do

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Ivan Cohen
Not sure about what you mean here, but to get these approximations, you use the Taylor series of exp(x) and ln(x) for x - 0 : exp(x) = sum_(k=0 to N) x^k / k ! exp(x) = 1 + x + x^2/2! + x^3/3! + ... ln(x) = 2 * sum(k=0 to N) 1 / (2k+1) ((x - 1) / (x + 1))^(2k-1) ln(x) = 2 ( (x - 1)/(x+1) +

[music-dsp] Derivation of the Tustins method (was Re: Simulating Valve Amps)

2014-06-23 Thread Andrew Simper
Ok, so what I'm really asking is why did someone (Tustin?) decide to make this substitution? exp (sT) = exp (sT/2) / exp (-sT/2) which can be written: exp (sT/2 - (-sT/2)) On 23 June 2014 23:58, Andrew Simper a...@cytomic.com wrote: Ok, but where does On 23 June 2014 22:59, robert

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On 6/23/14 11:58 AM, Andrew Simper wrote: Ok, but where does On 23 June 2014 22:59, robert bristow-johnsonr...@audioimagination.com wrote: On 6/23/14 10:50 AM, Andrew Simper wrote: Ok, I'm still stumped here. Can someone please show me a reference to how the bi-linear transform is created

Re: [music-dsp] Derivation of the Tustins method (was Re: Simulating Valve Amps)

2014-06-23 Thread Andrew Simper
Here is a reply from Ivan to the old thread, that I am including here in this new thread: On 24 June 2014 00:25, Ivan Cohen ivan.co...@orosys.fr wrote: Not sure about what you mean here, but to get these approximations, you use the Taylor series of exp(x) and ln(x) for x - 0 : exp(x) =

[music-dsp] Synthesizing musical voices question

2014-06-23 Thread rohit
I plan to build a synth for musical voice. Looking for good prior work in this. Our target is Indian classical vocal but work on any vocal synth should help us. It's a back burner project, we're in no rush. Rohit Agarwal, Khitchdee Sent from my Samsung Corby -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp

[music-dsp] Waveform with limited bandwidth wavetable lookup

2014-06-23 Thread Nuno Santos
Hi, I have been reading literature in order to understand the technics involved in computer audio generation. I want to build the basic building blocks of a sound synthesizer rather than using a lib or framework because I really want to understand it's inner mechanics. Currently I have The

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Theo Verelst
Let me express my agreement with the nice choice of subject: the simulation of tube amps. Of course during and before the advent of solid state systems, some people may have laughed about the idea alone (because tubes sound so annoying after while), but in the context of guitars, it's usually

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Andrew Simper
-- cytomic -- sound music software -- On 23 June 2014 21:58, robert bristow-johnson r...@audioimagination.com wrote: On 6/23/14 12:43 AM, Andrew Simper wrote: On 23 June 2014 11:25, robert bristow-johnsonr...@audioimagination.com wrote: On 6/22/14 10:48 PM, Andrew Simper wrote: I think

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On 6/23/14 3:39 PM, Bogac Topaktas wrote: On Mon, June 23, 2014 7:37 am, robert bristow-johnson wrote: the other thing Urs brought up for discussion is an iterative and recursive process that converges on a result value, given an input. i am saying that this can be rolled out into a

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Ethan Duni
rbj Urs Regarding the iterative method, unrolling like you did y0 = y[n-1] y1 = g * ( x[n] - tanh( y0 ) ) + s y2 = g * ( x[n] - tanh( y1 ) ) + s y3 = g * ( x[n] - tanh( y2 ) ) + s y[n] = y3 is *not* what I described in general. it *is* precisely equivalent to the example you were

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Urs Heckmann
On 23.06.2014, at 19:18, robert bristow-johnson r...@audioimagination.com wrote: it *is* precisely equivalent to the example you were describing with one more iteration than you were saying was necessary. Now I'm really angry I wasted so much time. An example is just that, an example. I

Re: [music-dsp] Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Andrew Simper
On 24 June 2014 06:37, Urs Heckmann u...@u-he.com wrote: On 23.06.2014, at 19:18, robert bristow-johnson r...@audioimagination.com wrote: it *is* precisely equivalent to the example you were describing with one more iteration than you were saying was necessary. Now I'm really angry I

[music-dsp] [admin] Re: Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread Douglas Repetto
Hi folks, This is generally a friendly, tolerant list. I feel like this conversation is getting a bit snippy, on all sides. Please consider letting it cool off for a bit to try and reset the tone. Let's give each other the benefit of the doubt and assume good intentions - - we're all here to

Re: [music-dsp] [admin] Re: Simulating Valve Amps

2014-06-23 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On 6/23/14 11:37 PM, Douglas Repetto wrote: Hi folks, This is generally a friendly, tolerant list. I feel like this conversation is getting a bit snippy, on all sides. i was getting snippy, but i kept the subject about the technical. didn't bring up anything personal about anybody. i tried

Re: [music-dsp] Waveform with limited bandwidth wavetable lookup

2014-06-23 Thread Russell McClellan
I'm not sure that there's any one integrated resource for this, but you're right that it is an important problem. Probably the most common approach is to pre-generate lookup tables for a square wave built up from harmonics under the nyquist limit. You'll probably want several different lookup

Re: [music-dsp] Waveform with limited bandwidth wavetable lookup

2014-06-23 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On 6/23/14 11:55 PM, Russell McClellan wrote: I'm not sure that there's any one integrated resource for this, but you're right that it is an important problem. Probably the most common approach is to pre-generate lookup tables for a square wave built up from harmonics under the nyquist limit.