Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-11 Thread Ethan Fenn
Not really, that will only work to find the frequency if the signal is a
pure sine wave, maybe with some very quiet noise. If you know roughly the
frequency where the sine wave is, it might still work if you put the signal
through a very narrow bandpass filter first. Or it might not if the sine is
too quiet compared to the rest of the audio.

-Ethan


On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Benny Alexandar <ben.a...@outlook.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ethan,
>
> This looks interesting. Suppose I have a single tone sound getting mixed
> with audio,
> can we find that tone frequency and have an adaptive notch filter ?
>
> Does your above equation works in identifying a fixed frequency tone ?
> For example by doing (x(t) + x(t-2)) / (2*x(t-1)) can we isolate a
> single tone frequency  ?
>
> -ben
>
> --
> *From:* Ethan Fenn <et...@polyspectral.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:13 AM
> *To:* Benny Alexandar
> *Cc:* music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
>
> *Subject:* Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.
>
> Well, starting with the FIR filter I proposed, let's take this equality:
>
> 0 = x(t) - 2*C*x(t-1) + x(t-2)
>
> If we don't know exactly what our frequency is, we can solve for C:
>
> C = (x(t) + x(t-2)) / (2*x(t-1))
>
> Of course we don't want to take just one computation of C, but if we do
> some averaging and are careful about the singularity when x(t-1) is close
> to 0, then we've got a simple adaptive notch. And we can get a running
> estimate of the frequency by computing arccos(C).
>
> -Ethan
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Benny Alexandar <ben.a...@outlook.com>
> wrote:
>
> This all works well in an ideal system. Suppose the sampling clock is
> drifting slowly over period of time,
> then the notch filter will fail to filter it. How to detect and correct
> these clock drifts and have a stable notch filter.
>
> -ben
>
> --
> *From:* music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu <
> music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu> on behalf of Ethan Fenn <
> et...@polyspectral.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:33 PM
> *To:* music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.
>
> If the sine frequency is f and the sample rate is sr:
>
> Let C = cos(2*pi*f/sr)
>
> For each sample compute:
>
> y(t) = x(t) - 2*C*x(t-1) + x(t-2)
>
> y(t) should be 0 for every t... if not it indicates a discontinuity. This
> is just an FIR filter with a zero at the given frequency.
>
> -Ethan
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:58 AM, STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN <sdiedrich...@me.com
> > wrote:
>
> With any phase discontinuity, a spectral discontinuity is delivered for
> free. So, the notch filter will have an output, a PPL would need to
> re-sync, etc.
>
> Steffan
>
>
> On 10.01.2018|KW2, at 17:51, Benny Alexandar <ben.a...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>  But if there is a phase discontinuity it will be hard to detect.
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-11 Thread Benny Alexandar
Hi Ethan,

This looks interesting. Suppose I have a single tone sound getting mixed with 
audio,
can we find that tone frequency and have an adaptive notch filter ?

Does your above equation works in identifying a fixed frequency tone ?
For example by doing (x(t) + x(t-2)) / (2*x(t-1)) can we isolate a
single tone frequency  ?

-ben


From: Ethan Fenn <et...@polyspectral.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:13 AM
To: Benny Alexandar
Cc: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

Well, starting with the FIR filter I proposed, let's take this equality:

0 = x(t) - 2*C*x(t-1) + x(t-2)

If we don't know exactly what our frequency is, we can solve for C:

C = (x(t) + x(t-2)) / (2*x(t-1))

Of course we don't want to take just one computation of C, but if we do some 
averaging and are careful about the singularity when x(t-1) is close to 0, then 
we've got a simple adaptive notch. And we can get a running estimate of the 
frequency by computing arccos(C).

-Ethan



On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Benny Alexandar 
<ben.a...@outlook.com<mailto:ben.a...@outlook.com>> wrote:
This all works well in an ideal system. Suppose the sampling clock is drifting 
slowly over period of time,
then the notch filter will fail to filter it. How to detect and correct these 
clock drifts and have a stable notch filter.

-ben


From: 
music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu<mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu>
 
<music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu<mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu>>
 on behalf of Ethan Fenn <et...@polyspectral.com<mailto:et...@polyspectral.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:33 PM
To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu<mailto:music-dsp@music.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

If the sine frequency is f and the sample rate is sr:

Let C = cos(2*pi*f/sr)

For each sample compute:

y(t) = x(t) - 2*C*x(t-1) + x(t-2)

y(t) should be 0 for every t... if not it indicates a discontinuity. This is 
just an FIR filter with a zero at the given frequency.

-Ethan




On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:58 AM, STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN 
<sdiedrich...@me.com<mailto:sdiedrich...@me.com>> wrote:
With any phase discontinuity, a spectral discontinuity is delivered for free. 
So, the notch filter will have an output, a PPL would need to re-sync, etc.

Steffan


On 10.01.2018|KW2, at 17:51, Benny Alexandar 
<ben.a...@outlook.com<mailto:ben.a...@outlook.com>> wrote:

 But if there is a phase discontinuity it will be hard to detect.



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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-11 Thread Benny Alexandar
Any idea on finding mismatch in an audio signal ( music)  given a reference 
audio and a delayed
audio signal as inputs to the system. Correlation is the way to find, can we 
rely on this method
for a music signal .Any other methods ?

-ben

From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu 
<music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu> on behalf of Henrik von Coler 
<vonco...@tu-berlin.de>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 3:48 AM
To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.


For actual discontinuities,
the derivative should be helpful -


G

H

On 10.01.2018 17:08, Benny Alexandar wrote:
Hi,

I want to do some time domain analysis on a sine wave signal which is 
continuously streaming.
My objective is to detect any discontinuities such as audio gap, fading, phase 
discontinuity etc.

Any algorithms available on time domain other than doing FFT based approach ?

-ben



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--
Henrik von Coler
Elektronisches Studio, Fachgebiet Audiokommunikation
Electronic Music Studio, Audio Communication Group

Technische Universität Berlin
Fakultät I Geistes- und Bildungswissenschaften
Institut für Sprache und Kommunikation

Faculty I Humanities
Institute of Speech and Communication

Einsteinufer 17c, Sekr. EN 8, 10587 Berlin
Germany
Tel: +49 (0)30 314 22327
Fax: +49 (0)30 314 21143
vonco...@tu-berlin.de<mailto:vonco...@tu-berlin.de>

www.ak.tu-berlin.de<http://www.ak.tu-berlin.de>
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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread Henrik von Coler

For actual discontinuities,
the derivative should be helpful -


G

H


On 10.01.2018 17:08, Benny Alexandar wrote:

Hi,

I want to do some time domain analysis on a sine wave signal which is 
continuously streaming.
My objective is to detect any discontinuities such as audio gap, 
fading, phase discontinuity etc.


Any algorithms available on time domain other than doing FFT based 
approach ?


-ben


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--
Henrik von Coler
Elektronisches Studio, Fachgebiet Audiokommunikation
Electronic Music Studio, Audio Communication Group

Technische Universität Berlin
Fakultät I Geistes- und Bildungswissenschaften
Institut für Sprache und Kommunikation

Faculty I Humanities
Institute of Speech and Communication

Einsteinufer 17c, Sekr. EN 8, 10587 Berlin
Germany
Tel: +49 (0)30 314 22327
Fax: +49 (0)30 314 21143
vonco...@tu-berlin.de

www.ak.tu-berlin.de

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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread gm

Isn't a clock drift indistinguishable from a drift in your input signal?


I'd use a feed forward combfilter btw


Am 10.01.2018 um 18:47 schrieb Benny Alexandar:
This all works well in an ideal system. Suppose the sampling clock is 
drifting slowly over period of time,
then the notch filter will fail to filter it. How to detect and 
correct these clock drifts and have a stable notch filter.


-ben


*From:* music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu 
<music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu> on behalf of Ethan Fenn 
<et...@polyspectral.com>

*Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:33 PM
*To:* music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
*Subject:* Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.
If the sine frequency is f and the sample rate is sr:

Let C = cos(2*pi*f/sr)

For each sample compute:

y(t) = x(t) - 2*C*x(t-1) + x(t-2)

y(t) should be 0 for every t... if not it indicates a discontinuity. 
This is just an FIR filter with a zero at the given frequency.


-Ethan




On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:58 AM, STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN 
<sdiedrich...@me.com <mailto:sdiedrich...@me.com>> wrote:


With any phase discontinuity, a spectral discontinuity is
delivered for free. So, the notch filter will have an output, a
PPL would need to re-sync, etc.

Steffan



On 10.01.2018|KW2, at 17:51, Benny Alexandar
<ben.a...@outlook.com <mailto:ben.a...@outlook.com>> wrote:

But if there is a phase discontinuity it will be hard to detect.




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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread Ethan Fenn
Well, starting with the FIR filter I proposed, let's take this equality:

0 = x(t) - 2*C*x(t-1) + x(t-2)

If we don't know exactly what our frequency is, we can solve for C:

C = (x(t) + x(t-2)) / (2*x(t-1))

Of course we don't want to take just one computation of C, but if we do
some averaging and are careful about the singularity when x(t-1) is close
to 0, then we've got a simple adaptive notch. And we can get a running
estimate of the frequency by computing arccos(C).

-Ethan



On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Benny Alexandar <ben.a...@outlook.com>
wrote:

> This all works well in an ideal system. Suppose the sampling clock is
> drifting slowly over period of time,
> then the notch filter will fail to filter it. How to detect and correct
> these clock drifts and have a stable notch filter.
>
> -ben
>
> --
> *From:* music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu <music-dsp-bounces@music.
> columbia.edu> on behalf of Ethan Fenn <et...@polyspectral.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:33 PM
> *To:* music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.
>
> If the sine frequency is f and the sample rate is sr:
>
> Let C = cos(2*pi*f/sr)
>
> For each sample compute:
>
> y(t) = x(t) - 2*C*x(t-1) + x(t-2)
>
> y(t) should be 0 for every t... if not it indicates a discontinuity. This
> is just an FIR filter with a zero at the given frequency.
>
> -Ethan
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:58 AM, STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN <sdiedrich...@me.com
> > wrote:
>
> With any phase discontinuity, a spectral discontinuity is delivered for
> free. So, the notch filter will have an output, a PPL would need to
> re-sync, etc.
>
> Steffan
>
>
> On 10.01.2018|KW2, at 17:51, Benny Alexandar <ben.a...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>  But if there is a phase discontinuity it will be hard to detect.
>
>
>
> ___
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> music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
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>
>
>
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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread Benny Alexandar
This all works well in an ideal system. Suppose the sampling clock is drifting 
slowly over period of time,
then the notch filter will fail to filter it. How to detect and correct these 
clock drifts and have a stable notch filter.

-ben


From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu 
<music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu> on behalf of Ethan Fenn 
<et...@polyspectral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:33 PM
To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

If the sine frequency is f and the sample rate is sr:

Let C = cos(2*pi*f/sr)

For each sample compute:

y(t) = x(t) - 2*C*x(t-1) + x(t-2)

y(t) should be 0 for every t... if not it indicates a discontinuity. This is 
just an FIR filter with a zero at the given frequency.

-Ethan




On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:58 AM, STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN 
<sdiedrich...@me.com<mailto:sdiedrich...@me.com>> wrote:
With any phase discontinuity, a spectral discontinuity is delivered for free. 
So, the notch filter will have an output, a PPL would need to re-sync, etc.

Steffan


On 10.01.2018|KW2, at 17:51, Benny Alexandar 
<ben.a...@outlook.com<mailto:ben.a...@outlook.com>> wrote:

 But if there is a phase discontinuity it will be hard to detect.



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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread Ethan Fenn
If the sine frequency is f and the sample rate is sr:

Let C = cos(2*pi*f/sr)

For each sample compute:

y(t) = x(t) - 2*C*x(t-1) + x(t-2)

y(t) should be 0 for every t... if not it indicates a discontinuity. This
is just an FIR filter with a zero at the given frequency.

-Ethan




On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:58 AM, STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN 
wrote:

> With any phase discontinuity, a spectral discontinuity is delivered for
> free. So, the notch filter will have an output, a PPL would need to
> re-sync, etc.
>
> Steffan
>
>
> On 10.01.2018|KW2, at 17:51, Benny Alexandar  wrote:
>
>  But if there is a phase discontinuity it will be hard to detect.
>
>
>
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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN
With any phase discontinuity, a spectral discontinuity is delivered for free. 
So, the notch filter will have an output, a PPL would need to re-sync, etc. 

Steffan 
 

> On 10.01.2018|KW2, at 17:51, Benny Alexandar  wrote:
> 
>  But if there is a phase discontinuity it will be hard to detect.
> 

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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread Spencer Russell
I think the PLL approach will be much more robust, and will let you
detect phase changes.
-s


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018, at 11:51 AM, Benny Alexandar wrote:
> Here is what I was planning. The sine wave frequency is known. 
> 
> For example if sine wave is having a frequency of 1 kHz and sampling
> rate is 48 kHz.> Then every 48 samples will make one full cycle. Find the 
> norm of this
> 48 samples.> It should remain constant,  if any fading, mute etc will be 
> detected
> by comparing with> this threshold value. But if there is a phase 
> discontinuity it will be
> hard to detect.> 
> -ben
> 
> *From:* Benny Alexandar <ben.a...@outlook.com> *Sent:* Wednesday,
> January 10, 2018 10:21 PM *To:* Spencer Jackson; music-
> d...@music.columbia.edu *Subject:* Re: [music-dsp] Finding
> discontinuity in a sine wave.>  
> 
> Here is what I was planning. The sine wave frequency is known. 
> 
> For example if sine wave is having a frequency of 1 kHz and sampling
> rate is 48 kHz.> Then every 48 samples will make one full cycle. Find the 
> norm of this
> 48 samples.> It should remain constant,  if any fading, mute etc will be 
> detected
> by comparing with> this threshold value. But if there is a phase 
> discontinuity it will be
> hard to detect.> 
> -ben
> 
> 
> *From:* music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu  boun...@music.columbia.edu> on behalf of Spencer Jackson
> <ssjackso...@gmail.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:04 PM
> *To:* music-dsp@music.columbia.edu *Subject:* Re: [music-dsp] Finding
> discontinuity in a sine wave.>  
> If the sine frequency is known, perhaps you could use a goertzel
> filter and compare a average signal power calculation to measure the
> power of the error signal.> 
> That doesn't identify the nature of the error, but strikes me as an
> interesting approach.> _spencer 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Eric Brombaugh
> <ebrombau...@cox.net> wrote:> 
>> Maybe try locking a PLL to the sinewave to get the expected frequency
>> and phase, then look for differences between them?
>>
>>  Eric>> 
>> 
>> On 01/10/2018 09:08 AM, Benny Alexandar wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>>  I want to do some time domain analysis on a sine wave signal which
>>>  is continuously streaming.>>>  My objective is to detect any 
>>> discontinuities such as audio gap,
>>>  fading, phase discontinuity etc.>>> 
>>>  Any algorithms available on time domain other than doing FFT based
>>>  approach ?>>> 
>>>  -ben
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread Benny Alexandar

Here is what I was planning. The sine wave frequency is known.

For example if sine wave is having a frequency of 1 kHz and sampling rate is 48 
kHz.
Then every 48 samples will make one full cycle. Find the norm of this 48 
samples.
It should remain constant,  if any fading, mute etc will be detected by 
comparing with
this threshold value. But if there is a phase discontinuity it will be hard to 
detect.

-ben


From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu 
<music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu> on behalf of Spencer Jackson 
<ssjackso...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:04 PM
To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

If the sine frequency is known, perhaps you could use a goertzel filter and 
compare a average signal power calculation to measure the power of the error 
signal.

That doesn't identify the nature of the error, but strikes me as an interesting 
approach.
_spencer

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Eric Brombaugh 
<ebrombau...@cox.net<mailto:ebrombau...@cox.net>> wrote:
Maybe try locking a PLL to the sinewave to get the expected frequency and 
phase, then look for differences between them?

Eric


On 01/10/2018 09:08 AM, Benny Alexandar wrote:
Hi,

I want to do some time domain analysis on a sine wave signal which is 
continuously streaming.
My objective is to detect any discontinuities such as audio gap, fading, phase 
discontinuity etc.

Any algorithms available on time domain other than doing FFT based approach ?

-ben


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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread Z Eric Zhang
You could take a synthesized in-phase sine tone with the same frequency at the 
destination and subtract it from the streamed signal that has arrived, and 
compare the output.  Any non-zero sample will mean an error.

-ez

From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu 
[mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Spencer Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:35 AM
To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

If the sine frequency is known, perhaps you could use a goertzel filter and 
compare a average signal power calculation to measure the power of the error 
signal.
That doesn't identify the nature of the error, but strikes me as an interesting 
approach.
_spencer

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Eric Brombaugh 
<ebrombau...@cox.net<mailto:ebrombau...@cox.net>> wrote:
Maybe try locking a PLL to the sinewave to get the expected frequency and 
phase, then look for differences between them?

Eric


On 01/10/2018 09:08 AM, Benny Alexandar wrote:
Hi,

I want to do some time domain analysis on a sine wave signal which is 
continuously streaming.
My objective is to detect any discontinuities such as audio gap, fading, phase 
discontinuity etc.

Any algorithms available on time domain other than doing FFT based approach ?

-ben


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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread Eric Brombaugh
Maybe try locking a PLL to the sinewave to get the expected frequency 
and phase, then look for differences between them?


Eric

On 01/10/2018 09:08 AM, Benny Alexandar wrote:

Hi,

I want to do some time domain analysis on a sine wave signal which is 
continuously streaming.
My objective is to detect any discontinuities such as audio gap, fading, 
phase discontinuity etc.


Any algorithms available on time domain other than doing FFT based 
approach ?


-ben


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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread Z Eric Zhang
Yeah a notch filter could remove the main sine tone provided it is of high 
enough order to be a precise notch, and anything else you hear left over could 
be detection of errors / artifacts as any discontinuity would result in 
spurious frequency content.

Not sure how it could help with phase though.

-ez

From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu 
[mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:14 AM
To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

A notch filter would serve you well, if the sine wave doesn’t change its 
frequency.

Steffan


On 10.01.2018|KW2, at 17:08, Benny Alexandar 
<ben.a...@outlook.com<mailto:ben.a...@outlook.com>> wrote:

Hi,

I want to do some time domain analysis on a sine wave signal which is 
continuously streaming.
My objective is to detect any discontinuities such as audio gap, fading, phase 
discontinuity etc.

Any algorithms available on time domain other than doing FFT based approach ?

-ben
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Re: [music-dsp] Finding discontinuity in a sine wave.

2018-01-10 Thread STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN
A notch filter would serve you well, if the sine wave doesn’t change its 
frequency. 

Steffan 

> On 10.01.2018|KW2, at 17:08, Benny Alexandar  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I want to do some time domain analysis on a sine wave signal which is 
> continuously streaming.  
> My objective is to detect any discontinuities such as audio gap, fading, 
> phase discontinuity etc.
> 
> Any algorithms available on time domain other than doing FFT based approach ? 
> 
> -ben
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> 
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