] *On Behalf Of *Frederic
Da Vitoria
*Sent:* May-23-11 4:49 AM
*To:* MusicBrainz Style Discussion
*Subject:* Re: [mb-style] CSG: research for Release names artists
We could also explain this rule by explaining that it also puts last the
Artists which could often be omitted for disambiguation
to a large extent what order the other artists
come in, as they are much less likely to be used for that purpose.
I agree. I should have added the composer, I was concentrating on the
performer part, so that I forgot him.
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2011/5/22 Nikki aei...@gmail.com
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
Yes, good points.
Does that mean you think we should have a separate mb-classical list then?
I'm guessing from the lack of responses that most people don't care
whether we have a mb-classical list or not? :P
No, I meant
track order (you did not write
Bramhs, Tjaijkovskij) which is a good idea.
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2011/5/20 Lukáš Lalinský lalin...@gmail.com
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Nikki aei...@gmail.com wrote:
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
Tjaijkovskij Bramhs is definitely better than VA IMO, although it
tends to
suggest that the release contains some work composed by both. What would
2011/5/19 symphonick symphon...@gmail.com
On Thu, 19 May 2011 11:59:53 +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
But I'm leaning towards just accepting the version on the liner for
tracknames. Or making standardization of catalogue optional, if you
think
it could work
an important matter. There was a discussion about it a few
months ago :
http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/Granularity-of-works-td3078828.html#a3080472
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instead of before .
If I enter only the first date... composed from to present instead
of
after .
and obviously no way to indicate YYY1 or YYY2, or ca.
It is minor... but sources of open discussions in edits.
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page
[2] however says that they should be kep separate. All people I've
discussed this with
agation_Schema#Workhttp://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Next_Generation_Schema#Work
[2] http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Work
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, then. I'd hate to see all Mozart's works translated
to German (Le Nozze di Figaro -Die Hochzeit des Figaro!) or all Händel's
works translated to English or German :-)
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, let's not set hard rules here, in classical music, there are a lot
fewer works than tracks, so that we can let voting decide.
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objections?
You need a +1 for this, right?
+1 then.
Your RFC obviously does not need my opinion any more, but +1 from me too :-)
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is implemented here and not there. And they
will be right :-)
But you are right, we can start thinking about it now.
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?) the communication
channel more than it already has been.
RFC/RFV's would still go through [mb-style] of course.
Alex / caller#6
Yes, good points.
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date at all, aren't ARs enough?
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2011/5/17 Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
2011/5/16 symphonick symphon...@gmail.com
*Track #1*
*title:* Gymnopédie No.1 * [just a copy from cover without space
between No. and 1]
If it's a French tracklist, N°.1 should be entered according to French
spacing rules. (BTW
although they are superfluous in the
MB database, their names are printed. In general, I'd use the what is
printed rule each time we are in doubt.
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that we
remove the cadenza-part from the worklists works, create the cadenzas
as separate works. We should only link from the recording we know used
that particular cadenza. No assuming
What if the cadenza is not indicated, for example in some low-cost releases?
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2011/5/17 symphonick symphon...@gmail.com
On Tue, 17 May 2011 13:11:05 +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
http://ngs.musicbrainz.org/edit/14460112
What if the cadenza is not indicated, for example in some low-cost
releases?
then we don't add a link to a cadenza
, since recordings don't have official names AFAIK, I guess we must
standardize them.
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2011/5/17 symphonick symphon...@gmail.com
On Tue, 17 May 2011 16:23:33 +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
Just found out that we don't have recording aliases, and I'm not sure we
can tag from works. I suppose this means that for now, recordings must
be
standardized
2011/5/17 symphonick symphon...@gmail.com
On Tue, 17 May 2011 18:27:14 +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/5/17 symphonick symphon...@gmail.com
On Tue, 17 May 2011 16:23:33 +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
Just found out that we don't have
CSG Work Aliases to standardized [1] titles.
Track Titles are a perfectly good place to store the non-standardized
variants.
Alex / caller#6
[1] or, if you prefer, CSG-ified
+1
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manages to prove to me that having hundreds (or would it be
thousands?) of Allegro, Adagio, Andante... is not a problem, indeed why not?
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recordings after creating new tracks with short names.
I guess you did not have the time to think your answer, so that I have
difficulties understanding all the details what you are saying (and being
French, I know that each word is important ;-) ). Could you
reformulate/expand?
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2011/5/16 Nikki aei...@gmail.com
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
use the artist name. Now what about the MB NGS web site interface? I
haven't
played with it enough to be have an opinion on whether it would be a
problem
or not. Is there a situation where a user could get a list of tracks from
2011/5/16 caramel carame...@ymail.com
2011/5/16 Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
2011/5/16 caramel carame...@ymail.com
For classical music, there is no a direct relation a song = a recording
= a work.
A composition (work) is split into movements/parts (sub-works). At
recording
/CSGStandard/JSBachand I did not see
anything recent, then I searched for your wikipage at
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/?title=Special:Listuserslimit=500 but obviously
you don't have one yet :-/
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Passion example (Passio secundum Johannem as work title), b)
and c) could be correct.
Caramel, so you fond it. Obviously, your brain cells are in a better shape
than mine. Could you give me the address?
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information is required for
recording names and should be written in the comments.
ex. Yo-Yo Ma recorded twice the Bach cello suites. So not only the
performer is needed but the recording year too.
I agree.
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2011/5/13 Nikki aei...@gmail.com
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
Caramel, so you fond it. Obviously, your brain cells are in a better
shape
than mine. Could you give me the address?
Looking at the recent changes, I'm guessing it's
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org
, and I guess nobody will
ever want to find back the printed title.
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. English (if native language is not present in the releases list)
I agree with 1. and 2. but I don't understand 3.
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2011/5/13 caramel carame...@ymail.com
2011/5/13 Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
2011/5/13 caramel carame...@ymail.com
.
Rather than lazier, I'd say less standardized or closer to what is
printed :-) I guess Releases should indeed be closer to what is printed.
Release Groups
2011/5/13 caramel carame...@ymail.com
2011/5/13 Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
2011/5/13 caramel carame...@ymail.com
2011/5/13 Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
2011/5/13 caramel carame...@ymail.com
.
Rather than lazier, I'd say less standardized or closer to what
2011/5/13 Leiv Hellebo leiv.hell...@gmail.com
On 13. mai 2011 11:52, symphonick wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2011 10:05:52 +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
2011/5/13 caramel
St John Passion, BWV 245: Part One: No. 1 Chorus Herr, unser
Herrscher
inserting a comma between the work title
2011/5/13 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren reosare...@gmail.com
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/5/13 Leiv Hellebo leiv.hell...@gmail.com
Hey guys, I'm still lurching around, but not following things closely.
Given that the work title
to be easy.
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2011/5/12 caramel carame...@ymail.com
2011/5/12 Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
You prefer Latin script like me, but Russian users would probably
disagree. If we follow ArtistIntent strictly, clearly Russian Works should
be entered in Cyrillic.
Yes with aliases names in at least
it the
other way: in an ideal world, each Work should have all relevant catalog
numbers, they are all true. But this would probably have to wait until NGS2.
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all variants, while the number of Artists (and of
Releases) in MB is certainly quite superior to what any brick and mortar
store ever had.
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are probably
right that I can't find anything really important achieved with our current
sorting method which would be lost with what you are suggesting.
Anyhow, I am leaving now for a few weeks, so you won't get new arguments
from me on this discussion :-)
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Membre de
line.
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2011/4/9 Paul C. Bryan pbr...@anode.ca
On Sat, 2011-04-09 at 01:19 +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
I may be wrong, but I believe Artist grouping was part of the existing
SortName Style, even if it was not written in the SG. It was not written
because, as with many SGs, we did not think
2011/4/9 Nikki aei...@gmail.com
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
I may be wrong, but I believe Artist grouping was part of the existing
SortName Style, even if it was not written in the SG. It was not written
because, as with many SGs, we did not think of writing the motivations
inside the SGs
groups?
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2011/4/8 Paul C. Bryan pbr...@anode.ca
On Fri, 2011-04-08 at 17:47 +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
2011/4/8 Paul C. Bryan pbr...@anode.ca
*Procedural*
As far as I know, an objective of grouping subsets within sorted sets
has not been previously raised as an objective of sorting
there more than about 30 posts, but I guess you could do it yourself, so
this is not what you want. Could you explain more precisely how we can help
you?
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the UCA (Unicode Sort Algorithm) as
described @ http://unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Scope
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a lexicographic sort.
If we do anything else, I would expect all of this will break and then,
again, what use would it be?
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
Not quite: we could use aliases to do the same thing. We don't do it
currently, I am not sure it would really be practical in the current
a distinct (even if related) artist, only make the
same artist appear in more than one place.
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a simple modification could allow it.
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, so at least
/some/ sortnames need to be easy-on-the-eyes, don't they?
Alex / caller#6
On 04/01/2011 08:16 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
This would be nice, but I fear adding a presentability constraint would
limit the things we can do with sort names. So if something to improve
for presentation, the sortname is used to order
it.
Further, depending on what the intent is, the sortname need not be
textually related, in whole or part, to the artist name (take the Sausage
and Colonel Claypool's Bucket of Bernie Brains examples above).
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2011/4/1 Nikki aei...@gmail.com
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
I'd say (in order of importance)
1 - sort (in the alphabetical sense) to enable easily locating an artist
in
a list of artists,
2 - keep related artists together as much as possible (ideally, Miles
Davis's quintet should
Why do you feel Guess Style could be confusing?
2011/2/26 Simon Austin chi...@auzsoft.net
Could be confusing. What about Guess Corrections?
- Si
On 26/02/2011 10:06, Atedos wrote:
I'd vote for Guess Style (shows the reference to style guidelines).
2011/2/26 Frederic Da Vitoria davito
understanding
Style Guides.
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can think of a better
name we can use.
One thing we do like about the current name is guess though, it is
only a guess, so something which doesn't make it sound too much like it
will definitely be right would be nice.
So, any ideas? :)
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and it gets a lot of votes it would be added.
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,
or meta-discussion, let's head to the Talk page of CSG Standard/Bellini...,
or in this mb-style thread.
I'm off now to listen to Casta Diva.
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haven't subscribed to. If the first post does not seem interesting to me, I
won't subscribe to it, so that if the thread later takes an interesting
direction I will miss it. If I was able to tell punBB to automatically make
me subscribe to every thread, I wouldn't have any problem.
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). The date could even be used only if
there exist more than 1 session with that artist, so that in most cases the
titles would remain as they currently are.
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2011/2/6 Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
(Sorry for the spam)
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2011/2/4 jacobbrett jacobbr...@hotmail.com
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
Hmm, I wonder, aren't people who know the correct typographical
conventions
kind of geeks too? I probably am something like a computer geek, but
definitely not a typography geek. I guess the typography geeks asked
will discourage most users? I
think that anything which helps users to enter Unicode is a good idea. The
ASCII columns furthermore would advertise to other services what character
conversions they should implement if they use MB data and (internally)
ASCII.
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Membre
2011/2/3 Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net
On 02/03/2011 09:58 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
Frankly, I don't know what the correct apostrophe or quote look like, so
that I am completely unable to find them in a Unicode character table
(even
if I had the patience to browse such a table
da gamba/)Bass currently used?
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Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
I am not even sure what Bass means here, so I'd say:
How about removing the current bass and creating a Undetermined bass
in other and giving it a description
saying that it's a generic instrument and(...)
It can't be deleted
2011/1/25 Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
2011/1/25 Nikki aei...@gmail.com
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
I am not even sure what Bass means here, so I'd say:
How about removing the current bass and creating a Undetermined bass
in other and giving it a description
saying that it's
on the forum) : find a tool which makes
both kinds of users happy. This would be the perfect solution.
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2011/1/25 Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
2011/1/25 pbryan em...@pbryan.net
[I'm just trying to reply using Nabble. Here it is! W00t!]
I definitely get their points in the forum. And, having to actually
subscribe to the mailing list is definitely an impediment to using
Nabble—I
RFx fits in that general
picture and what is still missing or what will have to be checked once NGS
fundamental items have been stabilized. I am speaking of style issues, not
of NGS coding itself. Something like
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:kuno/Style .
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and the recording.
Unless I'm missing something, if it is the same recording, then this is a
Release-specific title and as such should be noted in the Track title. If it
is not the same recording, then... it is not the same Recording :-)
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will not be willing to add information that could help
identifying the recording, but it's not necessarily a title to the
comment.
Shouldn't there be 2 comments? Or rather, shouldn't we have a simple
comment zone and an ETI zone?
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.
Whether the en (or in) is pig latin, french, or whatever, doesn't
seem really relevant.
I would cap as english.
Best,
- Olivier
2011/1/11 jacobbrett jacobbr...@hotmail.com:
Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
2011/1/10 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren reosare...@gmail.com
On Mon, Jan 10
definitely bizarre to me. I Googled the title
and obviously nobody knows what it means. So this could very well not be
Latin at all.
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2011/1/10 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren reosare...@gmail.com
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/1/10 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren reosare...@gmail.com
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/1/10
2011/1/10 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren reosare...@gmail.com
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/1/10 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren reosare...@gmail.com
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/1/10
saying if each line is a common world work or a
technical line, but I fear that on some borderline cases we will be unable
to decide what value to set to it to.
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2011/1/6 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 4:40 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.comwrote:
2011/1/6 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
Under types of Works/Aggregate: What about things like operas, as we
discussed? You're
2011/1/6 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.comwrote:
2011/1/6 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 4:40 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria davito...@gmail.com
wrote:
2011/1/6
. But
probably in some experimental kinds of music someone composed a Work made of
parts and specifically decided not to give any indication of order. So maybe
adding the word usually would avoid this problem.
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it as useful, but a veto seems a bit extreme
here.
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. At least this would be a good match :-)
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is essentially, I'd replace the three occurrences of the artist is
with the performer is.
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Frederic Da Vitoria
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Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
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2010/12/30 symphonick symphon...@gmail.com
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 10:17:36 +0100, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/12/30 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
Hi all,
I'm still working on the draft for CSGv2. I've finished the text for
the
artist
2010/12/30 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.comwrote:
2010/12/30 symphonick symphon...@gmail.com
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 10:17:36 +0100, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/12/30 Brian
collaborating to MB, is there? :-) I agree this may very
well end up never being used to such levels, but we don't lose anything by
allowing to do it.
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Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)
Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org
few. Maybe 15 is a safe medium between 4 and 30?
Anyhow, the dropdown will offer the most frequently used numbers first. I
don't have any argument against 15
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Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)
Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org
2010/12/22 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.comwrote:
2010/12/22 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 5:34 AM, symphonick symphon...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec
follows him, which in turn is replaced
by the following and so on. But this of course does not mean we must record
this level of detail. Although if someone wants to do so, why prevent him?
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Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)
Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http
.
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Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)
Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org
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, or the ordering of works within such a
container.
Done.
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Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)
Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org
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2010/12/15 Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net
On 2010-12-15 8:19, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
I believe
a track has a license status, which can only get less restrictive as
time passes (once something has been legally put in Public Domain there
is no going back)
I think
at a different time, for most of us in North
America to be able to attend? This one is scheduled for the middle of the
work day for any of us in the US or Canada. (11 AM PST, 3 PM EST...)
... and please post a log here as some users (like me) never use IRC.
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Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof
)
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Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)
Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
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2010/12/9 Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 23:11 +0100, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
2010/12/8 Calvin Walton calvin.wal...@gmail.com
Some immediately obvious problems with what's been stated above:
1. What about spoken dialogue in theatre/opera?
Various
:-)
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Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)
Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
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2010/12/9 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 4:50 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria
davito...@gmail.comwrote:
2010/12/9 Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Paul C. Bryan em...@pbryan.net wrote:
I'm not sure
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