Re: Creating HTML emails with mutt
On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 23:47:38 +1300 martin f krafft wrote: > Regarding the following, written by "John Long" on 2019-10-31 at > 10:30 Uhr +: > >1. Commonly done != standard. There are standards for things like > >MIME, POP3, IMAP etc. I'm not aware of ANSI, ISO, IETF standards > >that say that HTML email is a thing. > > Quoting the HTML RFC from 1995: "The Hypertext Markup Language > (HTML) is a simple markup language used to create hypertext > documents that are platform independent. HTML documents are SGML > documents with generic semantics that are appropriate for > representing information from a wide range of domains. HTML markup > can represent hypertext news, **mail**, documentation, and > hypermedia; …" That's the tail wagging the dog. I'm saying I haven't seen an *email* RFC that says "HTML may/should be used for email." But I'm ok with not discussing this anymore, if you are ;) /jl
Re: Creating HTML emails with mutt
On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 23:49:37 +1300 martin f krafft wrote: > Regarding the following, written by "John Long" on 2019-10-31 at > 10:17 Uhr +: > >> The approach Kevin proposed is completely HTML-agnostic and leaves > >> it up to the user to provide an external tool that provides the > >> HTML. Mutt then just does the required MIME-handling, which is > >> clearly within the domain of a MUA. > > > >I thought there was already the capability in mutt to pipe email to > >another application? > > Sure, you can filter your text/plain part through aspell. But you > cannot currently create multipart/alternative emails. > > >> There is no GUI requirement in any of this. > > > >I meant to say that HTML email becomes much less useful and in some > >cases worthless without a GUI. You can't display pictures or see > >advertising links on the console. I have tried to use various > >console browsers like links and lynx and I'm unable to use them with > >almost any webpage. > > So you'll have your client configured to prefer text/plain when > given the choice between alternatives. Which mutt already supports. > > Can we please move on? "I am going to stop participating in this "HTML is good or bad for Email" debate, and I'd like to invite you all to consider doing the same." Easier said than done ;) /jl
Re: Creating HTML emails with mutt
On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 16:29:31 -0500 Derek Martin wrote: > On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:29:31AM +0000, John Long wrote: > > > I don’t think this is about right and wrong, and not only because > > > there is no objectivity. multipart/alternative is an accepted > > > standard, and so is HTML. You might not like how things have > > > developed, and neither do I, but that doesn’t make it wrong. > > > > HTML is for web pages. It is wrong for email, yes. > > This is just not a supportable position based on anything logical or > evicence-based. HTML in e-mail has been a de-facto standard for about > as long as most people have been using e-mail (admittedly, much less > true for the folks on this list). It has almost universal adoption of > native support in almost every e-mail client of note. Even alpine can > now display HTML mail as plain text natively. Mutt is the only > laggard in this regard that I am aware of. 1. Commonly done != standard. There are standards for things like MIME, POP3, IMAP etc. I'm not aware of ANSI, ISO, IETF standards that say that HTML email is a thing. SPAM is by far the biggest part of email traffic. Do we say that SPAM is a standard? 2. Mutt hasn't had HTML support and people still chose it. I believe they chose it for simplicity and lightness and being able to run on a console. > A majority of e-mail users PREFER HTML mail. I don't think there is any proof, given 99% of the world uses Microsoft Windows and is non-technical, that this supports the idea anybody knows what peoples' email preferences are. It's much more likely and from my experience, people just use whatever they get. Outhouse is "the standard" in that regard, everybody has it, and the default is HTML email... I suppose this means a majority of PC users prefer Windows? We know the reality is the vast majority of people get it on every piece of Intel hardware they buy, don't know anything else exists, etc. > So I think the notion that HTML mail is wrong is just wrong-headed. I > certainly have no issue if you want to say you hate it, and I would > sympathize. But when you say it's wrong... I think you have no leg to > stand on. Likewise, I think trying to bring proofs from usage statistics that things that just happened (and are mostly targeted at making SPAM and commercial emails "better") are "standards" isn't compelling. > > Lots of Microsoft crap seems like an "accepted standard" > > This has turned out to be remarkably difficult to prove, but I don't > think HTML mail was invented by Microsoft, or predominated by it. > AFAICT MS didn't even support HTML in e-mail until 1998, and I'm > pretty positive Netscape Mail supported it in its first version, > released the same year. I think you are probably right. I was just trying to remember the history as I read your note. At any rate, Microsoft is certainly the biggest offender. > > Simplicity and constantly adding new features that are inessential > > are at odds with each other. > > This is true and should be considered, but not to the point of leaving > the application functionally incomplete. Yes, but people have been adopting and using mutt even when they knew from the beginning it didn't support HTML. There are already enough GUI clients that support HTML, why join the fray? > > I think it's pretty clear the people who use mutt prefer simplicity > > or they would have chosen something else. > > I think this is totally crazy. Mutt is anything but simple, from the > user point of view. It is a beast to configure with a monstrous > learning curve. Part of what gives it that is the requirement to > configure how to handle even things like HTML mail, which today pretty > much no one would exclude from the idea of what is essential e-mail > functionality. Everyone, that is, except a subset of Mutt users. =8^) There are several kinds of simplicity. One is in the UI. Once you set up mutt you don't have to do anything. When you use it you don't need to use a mouse or click buttons or go through pages of UI settings. It's clear what mutt does and doesn't do. It can run on the console without X. For those reasons I consider it simple. /jl
Re: Creating HTML emails with mutt
On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 15:49:05 -0500 Derek Martin wrote: > On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:31:21AM +0000, John Long wrote: > > That doesn't really help. From my point the issue is not only what I > > have to configure or what can be configured, but also how much code > > is behind doing that. Less code is easier to manage than more code. > > I can't see the benefit of junking up mutt with HTML or anything > > else that is out of scope for a command-line mail client. Remember, > > some of us use mutt on a console with no GUI > > Who is harmed more? Users who have the feature but don't want it, or > users who need the feature but can't get it? That doesn't fall into the category of harmed. I'm not sure of the timing but I believe in most cases people chose to use mutt after HTML email was already in common (ab)use. And I would venture to say that virtually all of the people who use mutt either as their only email client or along with others, chose mutt because of its simplicity. It seems to be contrary to the direction and purpose of mutt to make it do everything anybody wants. The harm of making the app more complicated and adding a lot of code is real, and it directly affects the user of mutt whether he's new or old. /jl
Re: Creating HTML emails with mutt
On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 09:29:23 +1300 martin f krafft wrote: > Regarding the following, written by “John Long” on 2019-10-30 at > 11:31 Uhr +: > > > > From my point the issue is not only what I have to configure or > > what can be configured, but also how much code is behind doing > > that. Less code is easier to manage than more code. I can’t see the > > benefit of junking up mutt with HTML … > > Fully agreed on all of the above. > > The approach Kevin proposed is completely HTML-agnostic and leaves it > up to the user to provide an external tool that provides the HTML. > Mutt then just does the required MIME-handling, which is clearly > within the domain of a MUA. I thought there was already the capability in mutt to pipe email to another application? > Also, mutt already does receiving/reading multipart/alternative, so > it only makes sense to figure out how to properly add creation of > such containers. After all, mutt can sign GPG signatures, not just > verify them. I'm not sure what this means since with the PGP config it can verify also. > > > > Remember, some of us use mutt on a console with no GUI. > > There is no GUI requirement in any of this. I meant to say that HTML email becomes much less useful and in some cases worthless without a GUI. You can't display pictures or see advertising links on the console. I have tried to use various console browsers like links and lynx and I'm unable to use them with almost any webpage. /jl
Re: Creating HTML emails with mutt
On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 07:53:30 -0700 Sean Greenslade wrote: > Of course there's massive selection bias in this list. No question > about that. I just wanted to point out that there definitely are some > younger Mutters out there. Though I tend to fall more on the grumpy > about HTML mails side of this argument, so maybe age isn't that > relevant. True enough, "Old Fart" and "Grumpy Old Man" are states of mind :D /jl
Re: Creating HTML emails with mutt
On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:37:43 +1300 martin f krafft wrote: > Regarding the following, written by “Nuno Silva” on 2019-10-30 at > 09:21 Uhr +: > > > > There are users who don’t need text/html. It’s okay to want some > > way to use HTML for e-mail in mutt, but I’d say it’s not okay to > > say everybody needs it. > > I’d love to see some statistics about the age of mutt users. > > Just to be clear: any solution will be configurable, so nobody will > be forced to use it. -- That doesn't really help. From my point the issue is not only what I have to configure or what can be configured, but also how much code is behind doing that. Less code is easier to manage than more code. I can't see the benefit of junking up mutt with HTML or anything else that is out of scope for a command-line mail client. Remember, some of us use mutt on a console with no GUI /jl
Re: Creating HTML emails with mutt
On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:53:40 +1300 martin f krafft wrote: > Regarding the following, written by “Dave Woodfall” on 2019-10-30 at > 10:05 Uhr +: > > > > I don’t think embracing wrong email practices is the way forward. > > I don’t think this is about right and wrong, and not only because > there is no objectivity. multipart/alternative is an accepted > standard, and so is HTML. You might not like how things have > developed, and neither do I, but that doesn’t make it wrong. HTML is for web pages. It is wrong for email, yes. Lots of Microsoft crap seems like an "accepted standard" but that's really just bullying, because they come preinstalled on 99% of Intel/AMD hardware. Just because everybody says the world is flat does not mean it's true. > The fact that the vast majority have adopted HTML for emails means > you cannot really ignore it anymore. I read those emails with a GUI client that I don't like very much and like less and less with each new release. I like mutt for mailing lists and corresponding with technical people. > Mutt already handles receiving/reading alternative parts quite well. > Being able to produce those parts will mean it’ll suck less for those > who need or want this functionality. Simplicity and constantly adding new features that are inessential are at odds with each other. I think it's pretty clear the people who use mutt prefer simplicity or they would have chosen something else. There are enough other email clients for people in other camps. Sometimes you have to have more than one tool for different jobs, even though they're superficially similar. /jl
Re: Creating HTML emails with mutt
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 14:50:05 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote: > * Grant Edwards [10-29-19 13:10]: > > On 2019-10-28, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > > El día lunes, octubre 28, 2019 a las 04:50:40p. m. -0500, Derek > > > Martin escribió: > > >> > FWIW, I (as a mutt user for 15++ years) do not need this. > > >> > Thanks > > >> > > >> Perhaps not, but the fact that it keeps coming up here is pretty > > >> clear indication that it's a feature that would be useful to a > > >> lot of people... > > > > > > Well, do you speak for you or for a 'lot of people'? Who they > > > are? > > > > Muttdown (a "sendmail" filter) which creates mutlipart alternative > > html/text messages is the only reason I've been able to continue to > > use mutt for the past 5-6 years. About 90% of the people to whom I > > send email can't deal with plaintext only. The display of plaintext > > is butchered horribly by Outlook, This is sadly, absolutely true. It's beyond frustrating to format an email carefully in ASCII text and then have it look like a telegram from Charles Manson by the time Outlook is done with it. > > and using plaintext-only makes me > > look incompetent because I can't send an easy-to-read email (the > > recipient has to save it as a text file and open it with notepad++ > > in a fixed font for it to be readable). > > so you cater to people who have no idea, and cannot be bothered. Which is probably 99.9% of everybody in corp. offices worldwide. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for HTML support in mutt. HTML has absolutely no place in email. But I do understand the problem very well after doing some contracting for big corporations and realizing 100s of millions of Windows victims can barely use a computer at all and email is just the tip of the iceberg. My solution is to use something other than mutt in those cases. There is no way to win... /jl
Re: Can I backup MH mail incrementally?
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 15:07:40 -0300 Luciano ES wrote: > You don't understand the problem. Sorry, my bad. > Read my initial query again: No, I don't think so. I'm not on your payroll. /jl
Re: Can I backup MH mail incrementally?
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:47:34 -0300 Luciano ES wrote: > I want to archive almost all of my email in MH mail boxes to an > external disk. The idea is to free up space in the running disk. > > I thought I could just move ~/Mail to external and start with a new > empty Mail directory, but then I realized I want to do incremental > backups in the future and I have no idea how to do that. TL;DR man rsync rsync is an intelligent wrapper that can do all sorts of incremental copies. It's the SAK of backups. The man page is rather long and complicated so I'll give two commonly-used recipes: 1. I've got a directory tree A that I want to copy to directory tree B. I want to copy from A only what isn't already present on B, and I want everything I ever copied on B to remain there rsync -axvn /my/mh /backup The "n" above in -axvn says "dry run." I've used rsync for more than a decade and under deprivation of sleep and/or coffee I still make mistakes. It's best to test any rsync recipe with the -n option, that way it will show you what it would have done but not actually do anything. When you are convinced it does what you want, recall the command line and delete the n. All the examples I'm typing here are going to include it so hopefully you won't make any mistakes! The other thing about rsync is that ending / characters matter. Greatly! Here I'm copying the mh directory (or file) to /backup If I would have used rsync -axvn /my/mh/ to /backup/ then rsync would have copied everything in the mh directory but not the mh directory itself. Be careful with this, it's easy to make mistakes and shell completion often causes problems by appending ending / Simply, including a / in the path means "everything in the directory but not the directory itself," while not including it means the directory *and* everything in it. The other common case is when you want to sync two directory trees such that the source and destination both contain exactly the same files. For example if you delete something from the source, you want the next rsync to delete it from the destination also. This doesn't sound like your case, but it's useful generally. rsync -axvn --delete /my/mh /backup does this. There are many options and variations. The other great thing about rsync is that the source and destination don't have to be on the same machine. rsync will use scp or ssh to copy the files depending on your command line, ssh config, etc. For example I want to copy my mh directory on my desktop to a backup directory on a backup server located on ip 192.168.1.15: rsync -axvn /my/mh 192.168.1.15:/backup The source file can also be on a remote machine... The -a flag says "preserve attributes" and it keeps the owner, group, atime etc on the backup file The -x flag says "don't span filesystems." This may or not be necessary but when trying it out I like to use x as a default. The -v flag says "be verbose." This way you see most of what rsync would do / is doing. If you don't include it you will not see any progress indication and it will just end and tell you how many bytes it transferred. /jl
Re: Using UTC as time zone in outgoing email headers
Hi, I don't know the answer because I set all my devices to UTC. But I can suggest it's difficult to find all the places where your time zone is leaked so setting it to UTC or some misc. time zone is probably not a bad idea. /jl On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:06:52 + Ryan Smith wrote: > By default, mutt uses local or computer time zone in outgoing email > full header, Date section. > > How to force mutt to use UTC as time zone in all outgoing email > headers? > > set_hdr Date=? > > K9 Mail in Android has such option in privacy settings Hide Timezone, > use UTC instead of local time zone. Ryan
Re: order of sending mail and saving to fcc
Hi Mutters, I haven't been following the thread but just to reply to a few points with the names of the posters removed in order to focus on content rather than who said what: > > It's not your > > mail client's job to protect you from every conceibable system > > failure which might cause data loss, nor should it be. If the issue is whether saving a copy or sending a copy happens first, it seems obvious to me in most cases it doesn't matter. But, as long as it is not any more difficult to do it correctly, maybe we can use a journaling file system as a very rough analog. We expect that any update gets committed to the journal before it gets committed to the real file. If the lights go out, we replay the journal and the file (depending on some minor details like what was journaled blah blah blah) gets restored to a coherent state. So it seems pretty clear that, if there are no overriding considerations the first thing that ought to happen is that a local copy of the email is saved to disk before the email is sent. Then the email is sent, the the saved copy is marked sent. So in those rare cases, there is a consistency mechanism that leaves things in a known state. > > And for every other > > case, the current behavior is the far superior one because it can > > not mislead you into thinking you sent a message you did not, The flagging operation of a saved message is much faster than saving the whole message. So while it's true having a saved copy with no status information attached to it could lead to this case you mention- which is certainly bad, it seems to me that designing things so that the saved email is created with an unsent flag and after the email is sent the flag on the sent copy is set to sent is easy and make sense. > It is quite easy to have a setup, where I can verify if the mail was > sent if there is any doubt. Yes, and the above paragraph would seem to be one way. > I'm relying on my mail client, that it safely stores a message of > every message sent. This seems reasonable to me. I understand that means nothing here on the list and probably not much elsewhere ;) but at the same time, free speech is good and no electrons were harmed in creating this email. > > I hesitate to go far as to say that if you think saving the message > > first is the right behavior, you are simply wrong... but I'm > > definitely thinking it. =8^) I go with the opposite opinion. I think there is an obvious precedent here in journaling filesystems, which are vitally concerned with data and/or metadata consistency. It does not necessarily mean that an email client has to be coded the same way or that the same level of rigor is appropriate, but in the absence of compelling reasons to the contrary the question arises, why not then? > You might consider it wrong but I do not seem to be the only one > thinking the old order is the correct one. Old stuff is usually better in my opinion. The problem is that most people seem to think you have to keep throwing features out there when what they had was perfectly fine at some point. And most Linux distros make it very hard never to update some app or middleware. When I ran Slackware I got around this by building everything from source and then never updating apps I was happy with. But there is a lot of home sysadm work involved with that and of course some risk of losing out on security updates for various and never-ending screwups. In the end, package-managed distros make it very easy to get the latest, but not necessarily the best. /jl
Re: Can I do this (should I do this) with Mutt?
Thank you for a superb, helpful email Cameron. I'll go over this and a few things posted upthread and come back with questions later. Thanks, /jl On Thu, 23 May 2019 09:56:08 +1000 Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 22May2019 15:03, John Long wrote: > >I have around 10 email accounts I use actively for various mailing > >lists, work, personal etc. > > > >1. Is it reasonable to use Mutt with many email accounts? I know you > >probably can, but is it reasonable as in, is it manageable, is the > >performance good enough on a midrange box. Usability stuff, like will > >mutt automagically respond using the correct account (the account the > >email I'm replying to was received by), is it clear when you compose > >which account you're using. Etc. > > You need to orchestrate switching accounts if you want it > particularly easy. > > Someone has posted a folder hook which switches their From: header if > they enter that folder. I don't entirely work that way myself. > > I've got: > > - an "alternates" regexp matching my various email addresses; this > lets mutt know what email is to me versus some list > > - some reply-hooks to fiddle the from in some settings; for example I > switch to my gmail address if theres an @googlegroups.com address > present because Google's stupid that way; some of my mailing list > subscriptions are unavoidably google groups. > > - some folder hooks, which exist essentially to fiddle my settings > when I use IMAP directly from mutt to match the imap target. > My normal use is local folders, like you. > > Someone else should describe account-hooks - I suspect I'm misusing > mine. > > >2. I have around 100,000 emails right now between all my accounts. > > That's nothing large. > > I do recommend using a mail indexer for big searches. I use notmuch > myself, via some simple wrapper scripts for ease of use. It is easy > to have a cron job or something maintain this silently; you can just > ignore it until you need it. > > >I have one pop account because my ISP mail server doesn't support > >IMAP. I use IMAP with all the rest. > > This should be ok. > > >I like having the email on my box(es) > >rather than leaving it on servers. > > So do I. Do you _remove_ it from the servers or just keep it synched? > > >Of the mailbox flavors, which is > >appropriate for this volume of email?...and also for the let's say > >200 a day I get between the various mailing lists I'm on. > > Only 200? Again, nothing unreasonable there. > > Use Maildir. It uses one file per message and is explicitly designed > for lock free activity, meaning you can point multiple mutts or other > tools at a mailbox without worrying about conflict. > > I us compressed mboxes for archive folders though. Simply more > compact. They are not folders I access regularly though. > > >3. I seem to remember that mutt didn't poll automagically for pop3 or > >IMAP or both. Is that still true? Is there a way to get mutt to check > >mail every 10 minutes, 15, etc. without middleware? I don't want to > >get into fetchmail, getmail etc. I want the client to do it all. > > I think this is the wrong choice. > > It is good to separate the mail fetching and sending from the mail > reading. That way it can just tick along independently of your mutt > (or other tool) use. > > Let a fetcher collect email, and just have mutt poll folders (which > it does). > > For myself, I fetch my email from various accounts using getmail > regularly, with a short delay before the next poll. It all gets > delivered into my +spool folder. > > I send email via my local mail system i.e. just the local "sendmail" > command (postfix on a Mac for the laptop, postfix on an Ubuntu system > for the home server). This avoids all sorts of problems configuring > mutt (and other tools) - you do it once, for the system mail. Then: > _everything_ can send email, and you can dispatch email while offline > - it'll go out when you're online again, courtesy of the mail system > being a proper mail system. > > Nor do I file messages with mutt (except by hand of course on an > occasional ad hoc basis). Like most mutters I file messages with a > separate rule based programme. Procmail is popular, but it tends to > be integrated into the fetching. I have my own gripes with that and > with procmail itself, and use my own filer (mailfiler). It monitors > the +spool folder, and files anything which appears there according > to text based rule files. > > One consequence of this is that I do pull messages from my ISP > inboxes, emptying them. >
Re: Can I do this (should I do this) with Mutt?
Ciao Francesco, On Wed, 22 May 2019 17:41:37 +0200 Francesco Ariis wrote: > I have many accounts, a couple of simple hooks like > > folder-hook fa-ml "set from=fa...@ariis.it" How is it used? > > 2. I have around 100,000 emails right now between all my accounts. I > > have one pop account because my ISP mail server doesn't support > > IMAP. I use IMAP with all the rest. I like having the email on my > > box(es) rather than leaving it on servers. Of the mailbox flavors, > > which is appropriate for this volume of email?...and also for the > > let's say 200 a day I get between the various mailing lists I'm > > on. > > I delete my emails daily, so I cannot answer from experience; > I know that there are indexing options, like marix, and that folks > speak good things about them. I was asking about the performance of having many mails. I don't need to index or search (at least as far as I know.) I wonder which of the mailbox formats offers the best performance. > > 3. I seem to remember that mutt didn't poll automagically for pop3 > > or IMAP or both. Is that still true? Is there a way to get mutt to > > check mail every 10 minutes, 15, etc. without middleware? I don't > > want to get into fetchmail, getmail etc. I want the client to do it > > all. > > Not that I know, I myself use a cronjob + getmail. Ah, this is bad news. > > > 4. For the idiots who persist in sending HTML email, even my current > > GUI client borks, sometimes badly, and the email is unreadable. Is > > there any tolerable HTML support in Mutt? > > I have mailcap configured like this > > text/html; mkdir -p /tmp/mutt \; cp %s /tmp/mutt \; > qupzilla /tmp/mutt/$(basename %s) > > and when someone sends an html-only email I open the attachment and it > pops up in my browser. Thank you for this tip. > Hope it was helpful, good luck finding a mail client that suits your > needs! Smile when you say that ;) /jl
Re: Can I do this (should I do this) with Mutt?
On Wed, 22 May 2019 15:40:15 + "Dan Ciprus (dciprus)" wrote: > If you are a mobile user then things are a bit more complex. I have machines in two countries (work and home) and I like to have all the email in both places so I can get to it. I have a subset of the accounts on a phone also. > If you prefer to have your emails/accounts stored at the same place - > desktop machine for example > - then offlineimap/fetchmail/mbsync is your way to go. There is no > limit on user accounts with this solution. Things might get a bit > more complex when it comes to gmail accounts where daddy Google needs > to have a control even on what keys you are pressing - disabled > pop3/imap support. I'm a google-avoidist, so no additional burden there ;) > As far as searching this mess: notmuch would be something I would > recommend .. To be honest I don't search much. If I do, I just use grep in a shell and then figure out how to find the email in the client. > HTML support - unfortunately for us, this is going to get worse in > coming years. People seem to like more colors/fonts/pictures than > actual value of the thought put in to the text person is sending. That's exactly my impression. > You can have external browser showing you the email - that's for viewing > it. For editing it - I have not found better solution than writing > markdown and then translating it via pandoc to html format. With this > editing you will obviously break an email which you are responding > to ... No problem, they deserve it. Anybody dumb enough to send me HTML is going to be lucky to get a reply at all. And if they do get a reply it's going to be ASCII text with their POS HTML garbled as a quoted response :P /jl
Can I do this (should I do this) with Mutt?
Hi, I've been a casual mutter for around 10 years. I have it working with PGP, S/MIME, all that I need...for one account. The only thing is, I am increasingly dissatisfied with the direction GUI clients are going. I had one I have been using for years and it just keeps getting more and more features, incompatible changes, and bugs. Several of them encrypted my account credentials so I couldn't retrieve them. At one point I downloaded the source for it and put printf statements so I could recover my credentials to use with another client. I like mutt's text config. I have around 10 email accounts I use actively for various mailing lists, work, personal etc. 1. Is it reasonable to use Mutt with many email accounts? I know you probably can, but is it reasonable as in, is it manageable, is the performance good enough on a midrange box. Usability stuff, like will mutt automagically respond using the correct account (the account the email I'm replying to was received by), is it clear when you compose which account you're using. Etc. 2. I have around 100,000 emails right now between all my accounts. I have one pop account because my ISP mail server doesn't support IMAP. I use IMAP with all the rest. I like having the email on my box(es) rather than leaving it on servers. Of the mailbox flavors, which is appropriate for this volume of email?...and also for the let's say 200 a day I get between the various mailing lists I'm on. 3. I seem to remember that mutt didn't poll automagically for pop3 or IMAP or both. Is that still true? Is there a way to get mutt to check mail every 10 minutes, 15, etc. without middleware? I don't want to get into fetchmail, getmail etc. I want the client to do it all. 4. For the idiots who persist in sending HTML email, even my current GUI client borks, sometimes badly, and the email is unreadable. Is there any tolerable HTML support in Mutt? Thanks, /jl
Re: [SPAM?] Re: [SPAM?] [OT] How to move mail from Linux to Android?
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 08:56:00AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > El d??a Monday, July 18, 2016 a las 06:05:59AM +0000, John Long escribi??: > > > So I find myself wanting to move several gig of emails from Linux to > > Android. The bulk of it is in MH format although I have a few mutt instances > > using maildir. > > > > I figure there is probably a ton of email savvy on this list, can anybody > > give me an idea how I can accomplish this? > > > > I haven't picked an email client on Android yet. I have tried a few and am > > not really satisfied with anything so far so I'm open to something if it > > would help with the solution. > > I have ported mutt to my Ubuntu phone BQ E4.5 and works fine there in > the terminal-app. Maybe you could port it to Android too. Thanks, but... Coding on UNIX or in C is really not my thing and I don't think Mutt is going to be an answer on Android as much as I like it on Linux and NUXI. I have too many accounts to deal with. Unless something radical happens I'm planning to use a GUI client. The main thing seems to be finding a client that can live with multiple mailbox formats at the same time or a utility that can convert maildir and MH to a suitable format for the new client. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
[SPAM?] [OT] How to move mail from Linux to Android?
So I find myself wanting to move several gig of emails from Linux to Android. The bulk of it is in MH format although I have a few mutt instances using maildir. I figure there is probably a ton of email savvy on this list, can anybody give me an idea how I can accomplish this? I haven't picked an email client on Android yet. I have tried a few and am not really satisfied with anything so far so I'm open to something if it would help with the solution. Any suggestions guys? Thanks. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: mutt 1.6.0 released
Kevin, Congrats to you and all the mutt developers and community. In all honesty mutt is one of the least buggy pieces of open source software I have used. I don't ever remembering having a problem with it. I'm reluctant to upgrade and probably won't. :-) /jl P.S. Sorry, this should not have been sent to mutt-announce. I guess that is a bug in mutt after all. It should have stopped me from responding to the announce list ;-) -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: leaking timezone
On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 11:52:12AM +0100, bastian-muttu...@t6l.de wrote: > On 22Mar16 08:40 +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: > > >>TZ=UTC mutt > > >Thank you! A most elegant quick solution! > > > > On the othe hand, I do not think mutt makes the header. > > The input to my sendmail= script lists a date header. (1.5.24) > So, mutt does it I assume. If you're worried about leaking timezone you should either use Mixmaster and be aware the keys are either compromised to some extent and/or weak enough not to stop TLAs, or webmail over TOR. Regardless, you should set your computer time to UTC. If you want to be silly to some time zone that is not your local time zone. It's really not that hard to raid your email provider or your server if you're your own email provider. I don't think leaking the timezone is that big of a deal and if it is you probably shouldn't be using normal email. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: leaking timezone
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 08:40:21AM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On the othe hand, I do not think mutt makes the header. I'm in > compose mode right now with headers and the Date: header is not > there. Aside from the Received: header that was already mentioned upthread, Mutt can add headers when it sends meil that you don't see in compose mode. I don't think it's a proof of anything that you don't see it. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Using mixmaster
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 05:01:05AM +, Jeffery Small wrote: > John: > > Thanks you for all the great information. You're welcome. Crypto is interesting and very practical. But don't get too interested. Most of the mixmaster developers and several key cryptographers have all died mysterious deaths in the past 10 years. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Using mixmaster
On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 08:32:18PM -0800, Jeffery Small wrote: > > I just installed mixmaster on my Ubuntu 15.10 system and am trying it out. > I have a question. The mutt manual says: > > "To use it [i.e., mixmaster], you'll have to obey certain restrictions. > Most important, you cannot use the Cc and Bcc headers." I think this must be a newer version of Mixmaster. I would question the worthiness of that. See if you can find an older version. It compiles easily on Linux. Look on sourceforge or elsewhere. Get a known good copy of PGP, preferably 6.5.8 command line and/or 2.6 Disastry (2.6.3?). Disastry is 2.6 with new hashes and ciphers to bring you up and in some cases past 6.5.8. Mixmaster strips headers. If you are concerned send a few test posts to yourself at various email addresses. You can test it by creating fake mix nodes and a fake nodes file (forgot what it's called but it is the stats file that Mixmaster uses to select remailers) with your own keys and use the outfile option. The mail won't be sent. Then you can repeatedly decrypt it with the keys for the fake nodes and see exactly what is being sent. > > When I look in my /etc/mixmaster/filter.conf Seems to me this is a new thing. I played around with mixmaster back in the day and I don't remember this. I could be wrong. > So what are the restrictions on Cc: and Bcc: as it seems that mixmaster is > prepared to use (or at least pass) them? Mostly, I'm just asking out of > curiosity. Normally Mixmaster will strip all headers that could leak info. If you want to just post to a newsgroup use the newsgroups header. If you want to mail anonymously I don't know why you couldn't use cc or bcc also. If you want to communicate two way via Mixmaster you'll have to learn to create a reply block. The new nyms at Steve Crook's site are ok if you think about what you are doing and use Mixmaster to set it up and don't ever view the website except over TOR or known good proxy.. I'm not sure how many old school nym servers are still around but they are better if you know what you're doing. Plenty of info around on this but you'll have to put the pieces together. Not much has changed, the old info is still valid. You'll need to get handy with command line gpg and pgp and you should also keep in mind the 1024 mix pubkeys are no longer safe for serious use and also if you are going to communicate securely you need end-to-end encryption with big pubkeys. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: mutt S/MIME
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 07:33:01PM +0200, Thomas Klausner wrote: Is there a way to configure mutt in such a way that I can read mails encrypted using my old key and ones encrypted using my current key in the same session? Expired x.509 keys are one of the true pains in the ass of email security. Most email clients don't handle this at all, or very badly. I have no idea of the answer to your question but I'm interested in the answer too. This happend to me once on Microsloth Outhouse and it was game over. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Can Mutt detect a missing header?
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 10:19:27PM -0800, Will Yardley wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 08:18:50AM +, John Long wrote: Many MTAs will add one if it's not present (in Postfix, this is determined by $always_add_missing_headers). I understand that but these are spammers who seem to be stupid and are trying to obfuscate themselves at the same time. This little trick only makes it easier since I wouldn't expect legitimate email to arrive with no message-id. My point was, if the MTA adds a message-id, it will not be missing. But if yours doesn't, it's obviously not a problem. My point is, Mutt is my MTA and my MUA. I use Mutt's builtin IMAP, POP, and SMTP. The emails I get from specific spammers have no message-id and that is unique and if I can killfile based on that I will have eliminated another category of bastards. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Can Mutt detect a missing header?
On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 10:51:11AM +, Koralatov wrote: * John Long wrote on 2014-12-19 08:18 +: Many MTAs will add one if it's not present (in Postfix, this is determined by $always_add_missing_headers). I understand that but these are spammers who seem to be stupid and are trying to obfuscate themselves at the same time. This little trick only makes it easier since I wouldn't expect legitimate email to arrive with no message-id. Sadly that isn't always the case --- there are a couple of people with whom I work whose phones don't include a Message-ID header when sending e-mail. They're both using some kind of Android phone, and Runbox as their mail provider. Sounds like they're probably worth killfiling ;-) In all seriousness I don't get spam from a huge number of sources so as I get one I keep an eye out and if it happens a few times I deal with each offender individually the easiest way I know how, email id, message-id etc. To this point it's manageable. Using limit with Will's `!~h message-id' command on the mailbox I store their mail in returned only their e-mail. As such, I'd test it on your mail archives before using it as a spam filter, because you might also get false-positives. The nice thing about Mutt is the stuff still shows up in the inbox but darkened (with my color scheme anyway). I always have a chance to look at it before I delete it. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Can Mutt detect a missing header?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 10:14:29AM -0800, Will Yardley wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 08:53:03AM +, John Long wrote: In the ongoing battle against spammers the latest trick is them not including a message-id header at all. Is there a recipe for Mutt to detect this and score accordingly? Going over the doc and searching the web I haven't had any luck finding any discussion on this. Many MTAs will add one if it's not present (in Postfix, this is determined by $always_add_missing_headers). I understand that but these are spammers who seem to be stupid and are trying to obfuscate themselves at the same time. This little trick only makes it easier since I wouldn't expect legitimate email to arrive with no message-id. From a quick test, it looks like the simple pattern: !~h message-id will do what you want. I tested with 'limit', but you should be able to use this in scores also. Thanks. The doc suggests you can't use ~h in scoring and I think I had a problem with ~h earlier but it should work for the spam command. I'll try it asap. Alternatively, if you use a mail filtering tool like procmail or sieve, you can do some stuff to handle it in there (e.g., adding an X-Missing-Message-ID: 1 header if the message-id is missing). SpamAssassin probably already has a rule for this, so if you're using this and can control your preferences, you could also increase the score for that rule. I haven't gotten into any of this because my mailing list memberships are all self-contained Mutt using the built-in IMAP and SMTP code and I don't want the complexity of a fullblown mail solution. Thanks. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: How do I kill these posts?
Thanks, I'll look at this. On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 07:08:54AM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: On 16Dec2014 07:56, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote: I have no problem scoring From: on mailing lists except with Yahoo. I have to believe the way they mangle the header has something to do with this problem. Just as an aside, their header mangling is because they're using DMARC/DKIM validate posts; it is illegal under that scheme to have the From: contain the original author because the list message isn't originating from the author - it is resent. This is something os a disaster. Have a read: https://www.virusbtn.com/blog/2014/04_15.xml I must get back to adding header editing to my mail filer so I can unmangle this rubbish. Cheers, Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au Wirth's Law: Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Can Mutt detect a missing header?
In the ongoing battle against spammers the latest trick is them not including a message-id header at all. Is there a recipe for Mutt to detect this and score accordingly? Going over the doc and searching the web I haven't had any luck finding any discussion on this. Thanks. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: How do I kill these posts?
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 04:37:40AM +0100, Francesco Ariis wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 02:28:29PM -0600, David Champion wrote: Francesco is right, this should work. ~f a@b will match a@b whether it's the actual address or inside the name portion. [..] So ~e em...@example.net won't work because Sender: does not have your target pattern, but ~f em...@example.net should. If it does not there's something else wrong. Indeed indeed. I sent myself an email and (once it arrived) went to /mail/cur/ to modify its from header, which now is: From: phoney bologna bolognapho...@hotmail.com [bademails] badema...@yahoogroups.com limit~f bolognapho...@hotmail.com works, as does score ~f bolognapho...@hotmail.com -40 This doesn't work here (I didn't try limit). So I have no idea what to think. I stress that scoring *additive*, so if you have a +100 rule that matches (among others) bolognapho...@hotmail.com, that will offset your malus provision. Yes, I realize that so I changed all my scores to =-100 to make sure this wasn't happening. Anyway besides setting a default score to 1 so nobody gets deleted but offenders, there are no positive scores in the scorefile. The correct way to debug this is probably: 1. try at first a simple limit (type l and then your mail address) to check whether matching works Not familiar with limit but I will look at it now, thanks. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: How do I kill these posts?
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 09:56:07PM +0100, Jostein Berntsen wrote: On 15.12.14,16:08, John Long wrote: Yahoogroups mangles the From: headers badly and Mutt doesn't seem to want to listen to me when I tell him to score using ~f or ~e. Is there a (better) way to score this? Here is a sample From: header From: phoney bologna bolognapho...@hotmail.com [bademails] badema...@yahoogroups.com score '~f bolognapho...@hotmail.com' -100 # doesn't work score '~e bolognapho...@hotmail.com' -100 # doesn't work I can't kill everything with the address of badema...@yahoogroups.com because then I won't see anything posted to the group. Any ideas? Thanks. Does this work? score '~f bolognaphoney' -100 No. It's as if Mutt doesn't allow me to match on anything between the quotes. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
How do I kill these posts?
Yahoogroups mangles the From: headers badly and Mutt doesn't seem to want to listen to me when I tell him to score using ~f or ~e. Is there a (better) way to score this? Here is a sample From: header From: phoney bologna bolognapho...@hotmail.com [bademails] badema...@yahoogroups.com score '~f bolognapho...@hotmail.com' -100 # doesn't work score '~e bolognapho...@hotmail.com' -100 # doesn't work I can't kill everything with the address of badema...@yahoogroups.com because then I won't see anything posted to the group. Any ideas? Thanks. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: How do I kill these posts?
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 05:56:02PM +0100, Jostein Berntsen wrote: On 15.12.14,16:08, John Long wrote: Yahoogroups mangles the From: headers badly and Mutt doesn't seem to want to listen to me when I tell him to score using ~f or ~e. Is there a (better) way to score this? Here is a sample From: header From: phoney bologna bolognapho...@hotmail.com [bademails] badema...@yahoogroups.com score '~f bolognapho...@hotmail.com' -100 # doesn't work score '~e bolognapho...@hotmail.com' -100 # doesn't work I can't kill everything with the address of badema...@yahoogroups.com because then I won't see anything posted to the group. Any ideas? Thanks. Can you rewrite these headers with formail and then score them? I would like to be able to do whatever I have to do directly in Mutt. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: How do I kill these posts?
Hi, On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 06:29:43PM +0100, Francesco Ariis wrote: ~f does work on my machine (Tested with limit~f t...@example.org /and/ with 'score'). The From header (yahoo group) looks similar to yours: It's not similar enough: From: t...@example.com [abcusers] badema...@yahoogroups.com From: phoney bologna bolognapho...@hotmail.com [bademails] badema...@yahoogroups.com You have a real email id in the sender portion. The example I am using has a non-RFC format (AFAIK) email address with firstname lastname em...@provider.com blah I think it would normally have to be firstname lastname em...@provider.com or firstname lastname em...@provider.com I suspect this nonconformance is part of the problem and I don't know how to get Mutt to scan the header since it could be not a valid header at all. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: How do I kill these posts?
Hi, On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 03:02:45PM -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: From: \S+\s+\S+\s+[^@]+@hotmail\.com \[[^\]]+\] [^@]+@yahoogroups\.com Kindly forgive me if this is totally off the wall. Thanks for offering help on the regex. The issue with Mutt is you can't match against the exact part of the email you might want. http://www.mutt.org/doc/devel/manual.html#tab-patterns There are special symbols that are supposed to match various headers and it seems to me Mutt is preprocessing what you get to match against. If I could match against the whole From: header what I had and what everybody else is offering should work. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: How do I kill these posts?
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 02:28:29PM -0600, David Champion wrote: * On 15 Dec 2014, John Long wrote: Hi, On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 06:29:43PM +0100, Francesco Ariis wrote: ~f does work on my machine (Tested with limit~f t...@example.org /and/ with 'score'). The From header (yahoo group) looks similar to yours: It's not similar enough: From: t...@example.com [abcusers] badema...@yahoogroups.com From: phoney bologna bolognapho...@hotmail.com [bademails] badema...@yahoogroups.com You have a real email id in the sender portion. The example I am using has a non-RFC format (AFAIK) email address with Francesco is right, this should work. ~f a@b will match a@b whether it's the actual address or inside the name portion. But it doesn't or we wouldn't be having this discussion. I already tried this numerous times before posting. Copying the actual offending email address right from the raw email and pasting it into my scorefile in the form score '~f offen...@hotmail.com' =-100 does nothing for this guy. I have no problem scoring From: on mailing lists except with Yahoo. I have to believe the way they mangle the header has something to do with this problem. Here's an example from my mailbox: From: First Last em...@example.net [ListName] listname-nore...@yahoogroups.com Sender: listn...@yahoogroups.com So ~e em...@example.net won't work because Sender: does not have your target pattern, but ~f em...@example.net should. If it does not there's something else wrong. Agreed but what could it be? Your example is a valid RFC From: line, by the way. All the goofy stuff is inside double quotes, and the proper email address is inside angle brackets. It's annoying, and it breaks crypto, but strictly in terms of address format it's legit. Ok, thanks. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Stupid regexp tricks
Hi, On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 05:08:22PM -0600, David Champion wrote: * On 09 Dec 2014, John Long wrote: The messages seem to all have message-ids in the form bunchofch...@m.something.com You'll need to be much more specific if you want help writing a matching regex. Is something a semantic variable or literal? What does bunchofchars look like? What difference does it make. I want to score on m.anything.com where: m. is a literal anything is anything and .com is a literal From all I can gather it sounds like they're generating totally legit and normalized message-ids. Any message-id that someone out here provides you will match false positives as well. In theory yes. In practice, not so far. If it gets to that point, I'll have to look into it but so far it is not causing any problems except for the fact my pattern is somehow broken and matches mx. as well as m. That's why we need specific examples to help. They are normal message ids and normal email addresses. I noticed that on most of them they use the abovementioned form of email address and message-id and that is enough to score on them, if I could match it. Thanks, /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Stupid regexp tricks
On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 04:17:00PM -0500, Nathan Stratton Treadway wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 20:39:16 +, John Long wrote: score '~i @m\..*\.com' - matches on Message-ID: 5486ad9f.8186460a.0aee.1...@mx.google.com You want the actual regex to contain backslashed period characters... but mutt also processes backslashes when it is parsing the command line defining the expresion -- so you may need to quote the backslashes. In other words, does this work? score '~i @m\\..*\\.com'- Alternatively, you might be able to use this form to specify a literal . character without the need for backslashes: score '~i @m[.].*[.]com'- Hi, Thanks a lot, I will try the first example when I get some new spam today (although the second example seems clearer now that you showed it.) Your first example does avoid killing gmail so if it works on the ones I want it to then that was the explanation. Thanks a lot for the doc reference also. Totally missed that. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Stupid regexp tricks
On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 06:50:30AM -0600, David Champion wrote: OK, I see what I'm missing now: it's the m vs mx. You're right, getting the regex right for this one will be enough -- for now. But it turns out that more than one site uses m.*.com hostnames, so you'll be back in this position some time. Maybe, but so far as the emails I get it's only these bastards. I think that when writing mail-filtering rules, it's best to be as exact as you can, not as ambiguous as you can get away with. That depends whether you're a sysadmin, or a mail server admin, or just a guy using mutt ;-) Of course correct is always better but sometimes good enough is good enough. Now that you guys have been helping me I'm not getting enough spam to test the new rules on! /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Stupid regexp tricks
On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 04:28:53PM -0500, Nathan Stratton Treadway wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 16:17:00 -0500, Nathan Stratton Treadway wrote: but mutt also processes backslashes when it is parsing the command line defining the expresion -- so you may need to quote the backslashes. (Here's the explaination of this topic from the mutt manual, near the bottom of the Pattern Modifier section: Special attention has to be payed when using regular expressions inside of patterns. Specifically, Mutt's parser for these patterns will strip one level of backslash (\), which is normally used for quoting. If it is your intention to use a backslash in the regular expression, you will need to use two backslashes instead (\\). That was it. Thank you. And thanks to everyone else who took the time to help on this. Great email client and great bunch of guys. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Stupid regexp tricks
Thank you I will try this. Waiting for new spam to show up. In your RE expression you have two literal periods (m. and .com) plus one meta-period (.*). One of the literal periods is escaped (\.com) the other is not. Both literal periods should be the same (escaped or not escaped) and the meta-period should be the opposite.
Re: Some fairly simple-minded questions about using mutt with IMAP
On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 10:33:05AM +, Chris Green wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 06:21:31PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: On 08Dec2014 22:04, Chris Green c...@isbd.net wrote: Doesn't anyone use IMAP? I must admit when I tried it (a few times over the years, but not very recently) it never felt quite as easy and transparent as using mutt on a local mail spool. I would advocate trying offlineimap. I am a huge fan of having one's mail local to the machine for all the reasons you have outlined. [snip] Well, looking at offlineimap has lead me to notmuch as well which has got me thinking down those lines too! :-) However, for me, moving to offlineimap involves quite a bit of reconfiguration work as I currently use mbox and I don't have an IMAP server running on the machine where the E-Mails initially get delivered. So I just need to decide which of many possible routes will serve me best. If we all misunderstood and you have multiple instances of mutt running and want to be able to access your mail from any of them then use POP and leave the email on the server. Are you forced to use IMAP? /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Some fairly simple-minded questions about using mutt with IMAP
On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 10:11:53AM +, Chris Green wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 07:07:10AM +, John Long wrote: I don't see how IMAP helps. What exactly is the difference in terms of how you read mail and where the apps run as opposed to POP? The only thing IMAP does it make you rely on a remote mail server. I never use IMAP unless they don't serve POP. I know one mail provider that doesn't honor POP delete requests so to avoid leaving 100,000 emails on their server that I can't delete I use IMAP with them. Everywhere else, POP. I'd rather rely on my own email storage. I wondered if, when using IMAP, mutt will store the temporary HTML for passing to Firefox on the local machine rather than the remote machine. One would expect it to somehow. This has nothing to do with IMAP. It has to do with how apps work. I'll clarify within my own comments: If I understood you then yes, but the local machine as far as mutt is concerned is the machine where mutt is running [your remote system], not where you are running [your ssh session from, your local system]. All mutt's working data is where mutt runs, as in all normal apps. Exactly. I'm sitting using my laptop in France (for example) and I run mutt on the laptop using IMAP to access the E-Mails on my mail server machine at home. Are you saying you can host a mail server but you can't understand the difference between running Mutt on a local or remote system? That's difficult to fathom. So, when I use 'v' to view an HTML E-Mail it stores the file in /tmp on the laptop and points my laptop browser at it to view it? Check and see? This was really my original question! :-) If so then you had no question at all. It's obvious Mutt will save the file on the system where mutt is running. It cannot work any other way and this has absolutely nothing to do with IMAP or POP. I believe everyone understood from the beginning of this thread you were ssh-ing to a remote box and running Mutt on the remote machine. All the answers until now have been based on that. OK, it has to download the file so won't be instant but at least it works without any extra configuration or commands (except the extra complexity, if any, of using IMAP). I must have missed a few posts. This seems out of context. No, as I said I just tried it and it doesn't work because Firefox is too clever and uses the local Firefox rather than the remote one so the file is in the wrong place. Firefox is POS technology, but depending on the version you can start it not to use your local/running instance. try firefox --no-remote and look around on the web if that doesn't do it. I have run into this several times with network firefox etc and I have it working. Yes, I've done it in the past when I was at work and really needed to view something that was only accessible from the browser on my home machine. Even across a fairly quick UK only internet connection it was horrendously slow. If you think that's slow then how do you think an SSH filesystem over the same connection will work? Sounds like a terribly bad idea. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Some fairly simple-minded questions about using mutt with IMAP
On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 11:36:48AM +, Chris Green wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 10:56:04AM +, John Long wrote: If I understood you then yes, but the local machine as far as mutt is concerned is the machine where mutt is running [your remote system], not where you are running [your ssh session from, your local system]. All mutt's working data is where mutt runs, as in all normal apps. Exactly. I'm sitting using my laptop in France (for example) and I run mutt on the laptop using IMAP to access the E-Mails on my mail server machine at home. Are you saying you can host a mail server but you can't understand the difference between running Mutt on a local or remote system? That's difficult to fathom. So, when I use 'v' to view an HTML E-Mail it stores the file in /tmp on the laptop and points my laptop browser at it to view it? Check and see? That's not so easy! I don't currently have an IMAP server for mutt to connect to, hence This was really my original question! :-) If so then you had no question at all. It's obvious Mutt will save the file on the system where mutt is running. It cannot work any other way and this has absolutely nothing to do with IMAP or POP. It could perfectly well use IMAP and save the file somewhere in the IMAP hierarchy on the remote system. No, this is not the way Mutt works. It has nothing to do with IMAP or POP. The only practical difference is with IMAP what's on the server is synced with your client. If you delete it, it's deleted on the server. With POP you can intentionally leave things on the server or delete them when read. I believe everyone understood from the beginning of this thread you were ssh-ing to a remote box and running Mutt on the remote machine. All the answers until now have been based on that. Yes, and using IMAP is an *alternative* approach to reading E-Mail remotely. No it is not. It is a mail protocol. OK, it has to download the file so won't be instant but at least it works without any extra configuration or commands (except the extra complexity, if any, of using IMAP). I must have missed a few posts. This seems out of context. I'm trying to compare the convenience/ease of doing what I do at the moment (ssh to remote, run mutt there) and running mutt on the local laptop and using IMAP. It doesn't matter whether you use IMAP or POP. It matters where mutt runs. If you think that's slow then how do you think an SSH filesystem over the same connection will work? Sounds like a terribly bad idea. The trouble is that Firefox via X transfers vast amounts of data to continuously update the screen, there's no attempt at efficiency. The ssh filesystem won't have to transfer anything like the same amoount of data. That's not the point. What is more important to you, having a web page rendered properly or having your file system in good shape? Anyway this whole thing is unnecessary. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Some fairly simple-minded questions about using mutt with IMAP
On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 11:42:49AM +, Chris Green wrote: If we all misunderstood and you have multiple instances of mutt running and want to be able to access your mail from any of them then use POP and leave the email on the server. Are you forced to use IMAP? I currently read my E-Mails (at different times, not simultaneously) using mutt on:- The desktop Linux system which is also where Postfix runs to receive my E-Mail. My laptop running Linux, sometimes on the LAN with the above desktop, sometimes out and about connected by someone's home WiFi or a 3G connection. Rarely, but occasionally, on someone else's system. The reason I'd use IMAP rather than POP3 is that I have mail filtering running on the desktop server. There's a custom script that delivers mailing list E-Mails (in particular) to separate mailboxes. I want to be able to see these when I read my E-Mail remotely. Thus I'd simply do everything remotely using IMAP, not store anything on the laptop. If you paint yourself into a corner by not understanding what you are doing it is much harder for anybody to answer your questions. It seems you are hell-bent on misunderstanding things and have already decided on an incorrect unnecessarily, complicated conclusion. Mail filtering works independent of POP or IMAP. Delivery to spool is independent of POP or IMAP. The only practical difference between POP and IMAP is at the client level. IMAP syncs in real time. If you delete a message in IMAP it is gone from the server. If you use POP you can set things up so that messages are left on the server for you to access from other clients. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Stupid regexp tricks
On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 02:54:59AM -0500, Jon LaBadie wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 07:15:13AM +, John Long wrote: In your RE expression you have two literal periods (m. and .com) plus one meta-period (.*). One of the literal periods is escaped (\.com) the other is not. Both literal periods should be the same (escaped or not escaped) and the meta-period should be the opposite. Thanks. If I understood what you said and did this right then that did match the spammers but is still killing google mail. score '~i @m\..*\.com' - matches on Message-ID: 5486ad9f.8186460a.0aee.1...@mx.google.com Any ideas? Thanks. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Stupid regexp tricks
Hi, answers within On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 02:53:50PM -0600, David Champion wrote: * On 09 Dec 2014, John Long wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 02:54:59AM -0500, Jon LaBadie wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 07:15:13AM +, John Long wrote: In your RE expression you have two literal periods (m. and .com) plus one meta-period (.*). One of the literal periods is escaped (\.com) the other is not. Both literal periods should be the same (escaped or not escaped) and the meta-period should be the opposite. Thanks. If I understood what you said and did this right then that did match the spammers but is still killing google mail. I'm not sure what exactly you need to match - your example in the first mail looks like a paraphrasing, so not sure what parts are variable. The messages seem to all have message-ids in the form bunchofch...@m.something.com They also have email ids in the form Idiot Spammer id...@m.something.com However if your spammer's message-ids are actually showing an RFC822 address format, you might try: ~i '\S+\s+\S+@\S+' I'm assuming your regex library supports \s, \S. PCRE does. Otherwise you could try ~i '[^ ]+ +[^ ]+@[^ ]+' You lost me on these two regexps. What's going on here? Also note the spam command, which can be used to classify spam. It's normally for matching spam scores from spam filters, but you could use it instead to add these messages as high-scoring spam. This allows you to treat all spam in aggregate, distinctly from other scoring. http://www.mutt.org/doc/devel/manual.html#spam Thanks, I looked over this when I first asked about killfiling but I decided scoring was enough for my purposes. My only problem is not understanding how to match these bastards. All of the other miscreants have already been successfully killfiled. Thanks a lot, /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Some fairly simple-minded questions about using mutt with IMAP
On Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 03:19:55PM +, Chris Green wrote: I have been using mutt for many, many years with a local (Unix style) mail spool. Mail is delivered to my system by SMTP (postfix locally). At the moment to access my mail remotely I ssh into the server and run mutt. I suspect many people do this. I do this. This works well in general but there are some disadvantages, in particular the 'v' command to access and view HTML, PDF and other graphical attachments doesn't work because, of course, there's no GUI access to the machine where I'm reading the mail. Do you not have X-forwarding set or is there some other problem? I have a shell account that doesn't allow X forwarding so maybe you're in a situation like that. If it's your box it might be worth changing one line in the sshd config. It's also a bit annoying simply saving attachments and then realising they're on the remote machine. scp or rsync the file to your local box? Presumably you are reading mail from a remote box for other reasons that are beneficial, or maybe you should just run it locally. So, I'm wondering if using IMAP would make my life easier. I would run Dovecot I expect. If I do this do things become more transparent to a remote mutt? I don't see how IMAP helps. What exactly is the difference in terms of how you read mail and where the apps run as opposed to POP? The only thing IMAP does it make you rely on a remote mail server. I never use IMAP unless they don't serve POP. I know one mail provider that doesn't honor POP delete requests so to avoid leaving 100,000 emails on their server that I can't delete I use IMAP with them. Everywhere else, POP. I'd rather rely on my own email storage. E.g. if I want to view an HTML E-Mail in Firefox (default browser) instead of within mutt (using lynx) can I just do 'v' followed by selecting the HTML attachment as I would when running mutt locally on the machine where mail is hosted? Maybe. I don't see why not. Presumably if an X app starts and you have forwarding set it should just work. Personally any HTML mail I can't read in mutt gets binned. If I get documents like PDFs I just save them on /tmp on the remote box and then use a PDF reader over X. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Some fairly simple-minded questions about using mutt with IMAP
On Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 09:59:17PM +, Chris Green wrote: On Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 06:33:40PM +, John Long wrote: On Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 03:19:55PM +, Chris Green wrote: I have been using mutt for many, many years with a local (Unix style) mail spool. Mail is delivered to my system by SMTP (postfix locally). At the moment to access my mail remotely I ssh into the server and run mutt. I suspect many people do this. I do this. This works well in general but there are some disadvantages, in particular the 'v' command to access and view HTML, PDF and other graphical attachments doesn't work because, of course, there's no GUI access to the machine where I'm reading the mail. Do you not have X-forwarding set or is there some other problem? I have a shell account that doesn't allow X forwarding so maybe you're in a situation like that. If it's your box it might be worth changing one line in the sshd config. I could connect with X forwarding but I don't really see how it would help. I just tried it with an HTML E-Mail, it doesn't find the file because it sees Firefox already running on the local machine and tries to use that. Also Firefox across an internet connection is impossibly slow. With Firefox you have to start it with the correct command not to use a local instance. This is a problem with Firefox, not X forwarding. And how well it works over an internet connection depends on your internet connection. In general, X forwarding seems like the best way to accomplish what you asked. It's also a bit annoying simply saving attachments and then realising they're on the remote machine. scp or rsync the file to your local box? Presumably you are reading mail from a remote box for other reasons that are beneficial, or maybe you should just run it locally. Yes, if I really need to see what's in the file I do rsync it across but for the casual look at something that's a lot of hassle. I'm reading remotely usually because I'm a long way away, e.g. in London (home is Suffolk) or on a boat in France. Then it sounds more and more like X forwarding over a sufficiently fast connection is your only workable answer. TINSTAAFL. So, I'm wondering if using IMAP would make my life easier. I would run Dovecot I expect. If I do this do things become more transparent to a remote mutt? I don't see how IMAP helps. What exactly is the difference in terms of how you read mail and where the apps run as opposed to POP? The only thing IMAP does it make you rely on a remote mail server. I never use IMAP unless they don't serve POP. I know one mail provider that doesn't honor POP delete requests so to avoid leaving 100,000 emails on their server that I can't delete I use IMAP with them. Everywhere else, POP. I'd rather rely on my own email storage. I wondered if, when using IMAP, mutt will store the temporary HTML for passing to Firefox on the local machine rather than the remote machine. One would expect it to somehow. If I understood you then yes, but the local machine as far as mutt is concerned is the machine where mutt is running, not where you are running. All mutt's working data is where mutt runs, as in all normal apps. E.g. if I want to view an HTML E-Mail in Firefox (default browser) instead of within mutt (using lynx) can I just do 'v' followed by selecting the HTML attachment as I would when running mutt locally on the machine where mail is hosted? Maybe. I don't see why not. Presumably if an X app starts and you have forwarding set it should just work. Personally any HTML mail I can't read in mutt gets binned. If I get documents like PDFs I just save them on /tmp on the remote box and then use a PDF reader over X. No, as I said I just tried it and it doesn't work because Firefox is too clever and uses the local Firefox rather than the remote one so the file is in the wrong place. Firefox is POS technology, but depending on the version you can start it not to use your local/running instance. try firefox --no-remote and look around on the web if that doesn't do it. I have run into this several times with network firefox etc and I have it working. Also Tor has a unique browser instance, obviously this can be done. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Stupid regexp tricks
The pron spammers are at it again on a bunch of email lists I subscribe to. I noticed most if not all of this reprehensible lot is using mail hosts that use email addresses and also generate a message-id in the form of Obnoxious Spammer id...@m.something.com I have tried a few combinations but nothing works properly. I tried scoring on the email address but couldn't get anything to match so I tried scoring on the message ID. Also couldn't find the right trick. score '~f @m.\.*\.com' - # doesn't work score '~i @m.\.*\.com' - # also doesn't work I got one magic spell to work but it also killfiled everything from gmail (mail.gmail.com). I have a bunch of scoring rules and until now I've been slow but usually get there. For some reason this one escapes me. Any ideas? /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: GnuPG error when signing outgoing mail
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 08:02:51AM -0500, Gilles-Philippe Morin wrote:
I tried symmetrically encrypting a file. Here's the output:
$ gpg -c 01\ -\ Vangelis\ -\ Chariots\ of\ fire\ -\ Titles.mp3
gpg: problem with the agent: Timeout
gpg: error creating passphrase: Operation cancelled
gpg: symmetric encryption of '01 - Vangelis - Chariots of fire -
Titles.mp3' failed: Operation cancelled
Would it be an issue with gpg-agent?
I don't use that and I am not sure what it does. Perhaps ask on the gnupg
list. Once you can encrypt and sign from the command line we will be able to
get you fixed up with Mutt and gpg here on this list.
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:58 AM, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote:
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 09:10:16PM -0500, Gilles-Philippe Morin wrote:
I'm using Arch Linux ARM on a Raspberry Pi.
Version: 1.5.23-1
GnuPG: 2.1.0-6
When I sign ('p' then 'a') an email, then send (y) the email, mutt
asks for my PGP passphrase. After I enter it, I get this output in the
console:
gpg: signing failed: Operation cancelled
gpg: signing failed: Operation cancelled
Press any key to continue...
How can I determine the source of that error?
Work backwards. Can you sign and encrypt a file on the command line?
Is your key or any UID expired?
/jl
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Re: GnuPG error when signing outgoing mail
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 09:10:16PM -0500, Gilles-Philippe Morin wrote:
I'm using Arch Linux ARM on a Raspberry Pi.
Version: 1.5.23-1
GnuPG: 2.1.0-6
When I sign ('p' then 'a') an email, then send (y) the email, mutt
asks for my PGP passphrase. After I enter it, I get this output in the
console:
gpg: signing failed: Operation cancelled
gpg: signing failed: Operation cancelled
Press any key to continue...
How can I determine the source of that error?
Work backwards. Can you sign and encrypt a file on the command line?
Is your key or any UID expired?
/jl
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Re: sending to fastmail with mutt
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 09:06:24PM -0800, Tom Fowle wrote: Havn't been able to send mail through fastmail.fm from mutt for a year, Just double checking that at one point you were? This only works for paid accounts according to this page https://www.fastmail.com/help/technical/servernamesandports.html which also gives all the server info and other requirements. set my_server=mail.messagingengine.com set my_smtp_server=mail.messagingengine.com set my_user=wa6iv...@fastmail.fm set my_pass = set header_cache=~/.mutt/hcache/fastmail set imap_user=$my_user set imap_pass = $my_pass # set smtp_url =smtps://$my_user:$my_pass@$my_smtp_server:465 I don't use this format but maybe it's ok. I set smtp_pass and smtp_url=smtps://m...@my.mail.com I wonder if the variables get resolved inside the quotes but if not that might explain why it goes to fastmail, falling back to your email addy. Try using set smtp_url =smtps://$my_user:$my_pass@$my_smtp_server:465 without the quotes instead. Must be some simple error I'm just overlooking, I hope. thanks It does sound suspicious that it's trying to resolve fastmail.fm. I just pinged mail.messagingengine.com and it responds from mail.messagingengine.com. So I suspect a config problem. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: mutt/vim line wrap configuration
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 03:15:15PM -0500, Dale wrote: read in the docs and on google this line in my ~/.slrnrc set editor=vim +':set textwidth=0' +':set wrapmargin=0' +':set wrap' seems to wraps when I type or copy/paste into vim Problem solved! but when I read the message, Mutt has a plus sign in front of each wrapped line Yes, mutt is wrapping in the viewer. It does not change the content of the email you received, for good reason. When you use Mutt you quickly become aware of just how _bad_ most email clients are. Yahoo is such a joy with their brain freezing text followed by the same thing in HTML. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: mutt/vim line wrap configuration
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 04:26:43PM -0500, Dale wrote: On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 08:34:15PM +, John Long wrote: On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 03:15:15PM -0500, Dale wrote: read in the docs and on google this line in my ~/.slrnrc set editor=vim +':set textwidth=0' +':set wrapmargin=0' +':set wrap' seems to wraps when I type or copy/paste into vim Problem solved! not yet, when I type, as opposed to cut/paste, it wraps but it puts a plus sign in front of each line, this would be especially troublesome with URLs and yet above you said: seems to wraps when I type or copy/paste into vim Well, seems like you said it wraps when you type or copy/paste. It's kinda hard to tell what's going on when the information trickles in bit by bit over a long painful period of emails with excessive line lengths. I don't use vi/vim so I can't tell whether that is just their way of showing you that what looks like multiple lines is actually one line which would be good, or whether the + is actually entered in text which would be bad. I suspect the former. Call me an optimist. The obvious thing to do would be to generate an email with those types of lines and email it to yourself and then save it and look at it to see if it's one lump or two. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: POP? (read some docs first)
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 08:41:05PM -0600, Russell Harris wrote: On Mon, November 10, 2014 5:29 pm, DaleKelly wrote: On 11/10/2014 05:58 PM, DaleKelly wrote: Login failed. Command USER is not supported by server. APOP authentication failed. Where is this coming out? Only on debug output or somewhere else? proceeds the above error although it works!!! don't like errors, any help appreciated much So don't try authenticating with APOP. You should not be specifying any pop_authenticators unless you specifically need to. That doesn't happen often. OTOH if you didn't mess this up with some config error then perhaps it is normal as mutt tries various authentication methods (see doc) from most secure to least secure. If I recall correctly, POP interface was added to Mutt as an afterthought. A search on mutt retrieve pop reveals that others have found Mutt in the role of retrieving messages from a POP server to be problematic. I use Mutt with POP heavily (few thousand mails per week from mailing lists) and it works absolutely fine, no issues. I've used it over the years with at least 5 email providers. People just seem to have problems setting up email clients, I don't think mutt is any harder than usual. I mean getting mutt to do exactly what you want is harder but the mail server connection stuff is pretty much the same with every client. Even MS Outhouse needs to have your creds and mail server addresses. But why waste time with a Mutt function which is questionable, when a good POP solution is available in getmail? Switch to getmail and be done with it. Please, Russell ;-) Remember who we're talking to. Simple is good. And mutt's pop support is totally fine. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Now Pop...
Why use an MTA when Mutt can do SMTP? This is way simpler than the alternatives. Just lett mutt do it all! i'm halfway there (i can get things from my ISP, but i haven't figured out exim4 to my ISP connection yet). Totally unnecessary unless you feel like being a mail server admin in addition to your day job. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: trying repository mutt again
Stepping into the quicksand again for no good reason: On Sat, Nov 08, 2014 at 11:59:47PM -0500, DaleKelly wrote: echo Test | /usr/bin/mutt -s Hello d...@dalekelly.org Error in /etc/Muttrc, line 145: smtp_user: unknown variable source: errors in /etc/Muttrc Weird. Very weird. set from = d...@dalekelly.org set realname = Dale This should not be in your /etc/muttrc! Your global muttrc in /etc or /etc/mutt is supposed to set very few defaults. Everything else is commented out. You are expected to copy that and make whatever customizations are necessary for each mutt user. You don't save your credentials in /etc. set smtp_url=smtp://smtpout.secureserver.net:80 Why are you using port 80 for SMTP? If you are trying to get past an ISP imposed firewall this won't work anyway. It will get you out from your ISP but you will be trying to send email through secureservers webserver. I don't know why you are trying so many versions of mutt. The version you compiled looked fine. It is clearly a problem of authentication, if you have shown us all the messages you are getting. And I don't know why you are changing so many things at one time instead of taking an orderly step by step approach. And now that you have compiled mutt yourself and also installed from packages it is likely you have multiple muttrc files in /etc too. Why don't you make a backup copy of the muttrc in your /home directory and modify the original to contain the bare minimum info needed to specify your userid password and mail server? Get that working first and then start worrying about customizing mutt later. There is a huge pile of crap here and no sign of being able to wade through it. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: trying repository mutt again
On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 09:40:58AM +0100, John Niendorf wrote: Having said that, it appears after searching the web that many many people have trouble sending mail with a GoDaddy account. Specifically, authentication seems to be problematic. Didn't look at the google reference but the first one has some useful stuff if you ignore the post itself- the guy is a complete idiot for suggesting godaddy's dns resolution is broken given that is the whole purpose for godaddy to exist in the first place. The suggestion that people find out the IP of the mail server and use that instead of the name is just totally ignorant. This is fixing symptoms instead of causes. If you skip past the beginnin there is some good stuff in the responses. The users point out there are sometimes bogus settings in the godaddy control panels for their domains. If Dale got it working through Thunderbird it proves name resolution is not the issue and theoretically he has all the info he needs to get mutt to work as far as credentials go...suggesting it is settings, and nothing else is wrong. Please remove any auth stuff in all copies of your muttrc that tells the mail server what authentication to use and just take the defaults. Your userid and password and the mail server name should be all you need to specify. Mutt works for me on a bunch of mail providers without any confusion or complications. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: pop(s),smtp(s)
On Mon, Nov 03, 2014 at 08:40:57PM -0500, DaleKelly wrote: On 11/03/2014 05:18 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: You'll need to re-do the configure, build, install steps: [cd to mutt source directory] $ ./configure --enable-smtp $ make $ sudo make install previous errors are gone, but it now says smtp needs SASL You have to install the SASL package. It is used for authenticating your password (and maybe your userid, I forget) so you password is transmitted encrypted rather than as normal text. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: do I need both SSL and SASL?
On Tue, Nov 04, 2014 at 12:45:37AM -0500, DaleKelly wrote: for SMTPs and POPs? Maybe. SASL is a wrapper so that your email client can present your login credentials to your email server using encryption. Loosely (no pun intended) SSL is a wrapper around the emails your client sends so that only you and the mail server can see the contents. You usually don't have to use SSL but of course it is a good idea to use it whenever you can. SSL seems to go through the motions in mutt but SASL SASL authentication failed have set from = d...@dalekelly.org set realname = Dale set pop_pass=pass set pop_user=user Likely should be set pop_user=u...@mail.server.com In other words your real email address. set pop_host=pops://u...@pop.secureserver.net:995 This may work but in my configs I don't specifiy the user, set pop_host=pops:://pops.your.server set smtp_url=smtps://u...@smtpout.secureserver.net:465 Should not be necessary to specify the port :465 but otherwise looks ok. set smtp_user=user This is not a valid variable in mutt and is not needed. The smtp_url has your userid specified. set smtp_pass=pass This is needed. I get Error in /home/dale/.muttrc, line 348: smtp_user: unknown variable when I set smtp user to set smtp_user=user if I comment it out, I just get SASL authentication failed do I need to configure SASL? No. There is a problem in one or more of the variables where you specify your login credentials. Please go over the examples carefully. Mutt's syntax appears to be non-uniform and that could be confusing. no error on set pop_user=user You can set it to whatever you want but that doesn't mean it will work ;-) Try set pop_user=you@real.email /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: pop(s),smtp(s)
On Sun, Nov 02, 2014 at 07:28:06PM -0500, DaleKelly wrote: On 11/02/2014 06:53 PM, John Niendorf wrote: Dale, For what it is worth I have this in my .muttrc file and I am able to send and receive securly to my server. I am using muttrc rather than .muttrc so you should check for both files. set smtp_url=smtps://j...@jfniendorf.org@secure_server.com/465 Thanks John, I have been working off my Muttrc file, I can't find my .muttrc file (might have edited it before, can't remember now) You need to resolve this issue or you will have no idea what mutt is using for config info. Try the following: $ cd $ find ./ -name muttrc $ find ./ -name .muttrc tried your suggestion for smtp_url, didn't work If this post hits the list then This Works For Me: set pop_pass=blahblah set pop_user=y...@your.com set pop_host=pops://your.pop.server set smtp_url=smtp://y...@your.smtp.server set smtp_pass=blahblah I see I am not using smtps, will try that shortly. It seems like it has been using TLS on sends but who knows. also reinstalled a couple times Don't do that unless you're on Windows (didn't read the whole thread). /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: message line in black with black background
On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 05:32:20PM +0100, Moss wrote: Sorry delete my last post. Your colours should be set in ~/.muttrc man muttrc and search for color by doing /color and the first hit you should get is color object foreground background [regexp] which is the format of the color command for the various areas like the status line, all specified one per line. Right there in that section of the man page you will find the names for the various objects and the acceptable names of the colors. Mess around first on a normal terminal. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Mutt slow to respond?
Since nobody said anything yet, it seems like this is related to IMAP and Mutt's design. I use POP when possible since it doesn't query the server until you tell it to. You won't see new messages that way but it also doesn't get affected by the speed of the IMAP server and the connection until you fetch mail. If you have many mails are you using the cache setting in .mutt? On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 06:43:25AM +0100, Nigel Green wrote: Hi all, I've used Mutt for a while now and never had any issues with performance, but my latest install feels really laggy. On an index screen there's a gap of half a second or so between hitting a key and the cursor moving, which means I've had loads of trouble with selecting messages, etc. My latest install is on a Crunchbang GNU/Linux system, running Mutt 1.5.21. Thanks, Nigel -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: The etiquette of RTFM (Re: I have forgotten ...)
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 05:58:16PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 09:51:13AM -0500, Dale A. Raby wrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 08:35:25AM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote: I really don't need to be told RTFM. I am 80 yrs old. I forget things. [I think people should take note: this comment clearly suggests that Paul, like many people, has had negative experiences asking relatively simple questions on mailing lists like this one, if not this very one.] Good point. Asking on a mailing list, where someone (or many someones) almost certainly knows the answer without looking it up, AND will reply to you usually in less than 5 minutes, while you go make yourself a nice cup of tea, is a much more productive and less frustrating way to solve the problem, and should be encouraged, not discouraged. Otherwise why are we here? But it's a two way street at least it should be. I gave the best answer I had since I also use Emacs with Mutt. But my answer wasn't acknowledged. I took the time to respond and I see my time wasn't appreciated. So now I'm very less likely to answer anything from this person in the future. It seems obvious to me it's proper to thank people who tried to help, whether you actually tried what they suggested or not. If you're 80 years old you grew up when things like manners and common courtesy were still admirable in all likelihood. Back to your subject, agreed RTFM posts aren't helpful. They only demonstrate the person posting the RTFM has more time than manners. In 95% of RTFM cases a helpful answer would take less effort and bandwidth than the rant that inevitably comes with their RTFM post! Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 I'll have a large pepperoni to go! /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: I have forgotten ...
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 08:35:25AM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote: I am having a mental block, and cannot remember how to wrap text in Emacs while composing an email. Specifically, I need help remembering what key, or keys, should be pressed after selecting a region of text to get that region reflowed according to the current settings. What I do is put a line like this in my .emacs at the top (setq-default major-mode 'text-mode) I believe this causes Emacs to treat files like text unless it sees a special file extension or perhaps something in the file itself to tell it otherwise. and then further down where it has a line that says (custom-set-variables add this: '(fill-column 76) which is the standard. And then all you have to do is ctrl-e to the end of a sentence or paragraph and press the space bar and it will autowrap. You can M-x emacs-lisp-byte-compile-and-load and you should have your new settings. If not, exit from Emacs and come back in again. I am using Debian Wheezy. I am using Mutt and Emacs as installed by the Debian installer. Or maybe I have also forgotten some special configuring that I had to do to get this reflow working. I think the above is all you need. If it doesn't work, show us what you have for your .emacs and let us know if it says (text-fill) on the bottom, in your status line somewhere. I am not using Debian but Emacs is pretty much Emacs everywhere. I really don't need to be told RTFM. I am 80 yrs old. I forget things. You don't have to be 80 years old to have a hard time figuring out how to setup Emacs options! I can't figure much out from the manual either so I usually search for what I'm looking and find an example that works and then go backwards if I want to understand it. /jl
Re: build problems on Solaris 8
On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 04:46:28PM -0800, Will Yardley wrote: On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 05:30:03PM -0700, s. keeling wrote: Incoming from Michael Elkins: FYI, there are nightly snapshots here http://dev.mutt.org/nightlies/ which avoid the need to have the developer toolchain installed. Michael, kind of off topic, I know, but why would you want to discourage people from learning the developer toolchain? I think the point is that minimizing the build dependencies for people who aren't developers should reduce build problems quite a bit. There's another issue and as a Solaris user I'm painfully aware of it ;-) As you get further and further away from Linux as in Linux - BSD UNIX - Solaris - other UNIX etc. the typical app written for Linux is less and less likely to build without pain either because of compiler, library, prereqs or other problems. Many apps don't even seem to get tested anywhere but Linux. Building apps isn't the best use of most peoples' time. If you have a trustworthy place to get the apps you want that's a good way to go. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Retrieve POP mail automatically?
Is there any way to retrieve pop mail automatically in mutt itself rather than using fetchmail etc.? Thanks. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Retrieve POP mail automatically?
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 11:37:29AM -0600, Dale Raby wrote: On 12/16/2012 10:37 AM, John Long wrote: Is there any way to retrieve pop mail automatically in mutt itself rather than using fetchmail etc.? Thanks. /jl The short answer is yes. The long answer is, maybe, if your particular Mutt is compiled with the POP support option. I compiled Mutt with POP and can fetch and send mail no problem. What I don't know how to do is make Mutt fetch the mail automatically. I tried set mail_check=600 thinking every ten minutes it would try to pull mail from the pop server. This doesn't seem to happen. I guess that setting has to do with Mutt checking the folders for new mail. Is there a way to get Mutt to fetch pop mail automatically at intervals?
Re: Retrieve POP mail automatically?
Dale wrote: http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-4.html Item 4.10 I think the item you want is the pop_checkinterval variable The default is 60 seconds Thanks I just tried that after I posted my previous response. It doesn't work either (but it sure looked like it should!)
Re: Mutt locking up, how to trace?
Understood, thanks again. On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 09:37:47AM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: On 24Nov2012 19:12, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote: | On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 09:15:27AM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: | Some things are timing dependent, and strace does affect things; | | I realized there might be a Heisenberg deal going on here but it seems odd | since Mutt has been working for a few months on this box with zero issues. My point was more that strace may itself be affecting things, hence the suggestion to strace _after_ the issue has appeared. If the issue is hard to reproduce, it is something to bear in mind. Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au
Re: Mutt locking up, how to trace?
On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 09:15:27AM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: On 23Nov2012 10:42, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote: | On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 11:40:33PM +0100, Richard wrote: | On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 06:42:27PM +, John Long wrote: | My mutt on Linux has been locking up lately. I didn't compile it with debug | support. Is there any way to figure out why this is happening? I sometimes | lock up in the middle of composing a long email or when mutt has been open | for awhile. This didn't happen until this week and I suspect my email | provider is messing up but I don't know how to check it. Once in awhile mutt | becomes non-responsive and there's nothing I can do but kill it or close the | terminal window. It doesn't respond to any keypresses. | | first thing to try is strace -p pid-mutt from a different terminal. | | Thanks, that fixed it! Just like when you take your car to the shop, it | never exhibits the problem...I started strace this morning and the damn | thing's been running fine for hours already! Some things are timing dependent, and strace does affect things; I realized there might be a Heisenberg deal going on here but it seems odd since Mutt has been working for a few months on this box with zero issues. best to _not_ strace, wait for failure, _then_ strace. You can also do more trageted stracing with the -e option, eg: strace -e trace=file -p mutt-pid If mutt has gone CPU bound it won't say anything, but if a system call is hanging or mutt is spinning on one (I've seen Linux futexes do this frequently, outstandingly annoying) it should show something. Hopefully a call using a file path or file descriptor. If the latter, lsof -p pid-mutt should show you what that file descriptor is associated with. OTOH, if mutt is CPU bound and doing no system calls, gdb for a stace backtrace may be illuminating. Thanks! I'll see what I can see. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Mutt locking up, how to trace?
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 11:40:33PM +0100, Richard wrote: On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 06:42:27PM +, John Long wrote: My mutt on Linux has been locking up lately. I didn't compile it with debug support. Is there any way to figure out why this is happening? I sometimes lock up in the middle of composing a long email or when mutt has been open for awhile. This didn't happen until this week and I suspect my email provider is messing up but I don't know how to check it. Once in awhile mutt becomes non-responsive and there's nothing I can do but kill it or close the terminal window. It doesn't respond to any keypresses. first thing to try is strace -p pid-mutt from a different terminal. Thanks, that fixed it! Just like when you take your car to the shop, it never exhibits the problem...I started strace this morning and the damn thing's been running fine for hours already! You could also try $gdb #attach pid-mutt #bt - should give at least a backtrace where it is hanging on most architectures. If you suspect server problem try wireshark. Thanks Richard. I'll keep this going and also try gdb until I catch him in the act. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Mutt locking up, how to trace?
My mutt on Linux has been locking up lately. I didn't compile it with debug support. Is there any way to figure out why this is happening? I sometimes lock up in the middle of composing a long email or when mutt has been open for awhile. This didn't happen until this week and I suspect my email provider is messing up but I don't know how to check it. Once in awhile mutt becomes non-responsive and there's nothing I can do but kill it or close the terminal window. It doesn't respond to any keypresses. mutt -v and muttrc follow. Thank you. Mutt 1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Copyright (C) 1996-2009 Michael R. Elkins and others. Mutt comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `mutt -vv'. Mutt is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; type `mutt -vv' for details. System: Linux 2.6.29.6 (x86_64) ncurses: ncurses 5.7.20081102 (compiled with 5.7) libidn: 1.5 (compiled with 1.5) hcache backend: GDBM version 1.8.3. 10/15/2002 (built Sep 29 2008 00:46:22) Compile options: -DOMAIN -DEBUG -HOMESPOOL -USE_SETGID +USE_DOTLOCK -DL_STANDALONE +USE_FCNTL -USE_FLOCK +USE_POP +USE_IMAP +USE_SMTP +USE_SSL_OPENSSL -USE_SSL_GNUTLS +USE_SASL -USE_GSS +HAVE_GETADDRINFO +HAVE_REGCOMP -USE_GNU_REGEX +HAVE_COLOR +HAVE_START_COLOR +HAVE_TYPEAHEAD +HAVE_BKGDSET +HAVE_CURS_SET +HAVE_META +HAVE_RESIZETERM +CRYPT_BACKEND_CLASSIC_PGP +CRYPT_BACKEND_CLASSIC_SMIME -CRYPT_BACKEND_GPGME -EXACT_ADDRESS -SUN_ATTACHMENT -ENABLE_NLS -LOCALES_HACK +HAVE_WC_FUNCS +HAVE_LANGINFO_CODESET +HAVE_LANGINFO_YESEXPR +HAVE_ICONV -ICONV_NONTRANS +HAVE_LIBIDN +HAVE_GETSID +USE_HCACHE -ISPELL SENDMAIL=/usr/bin/sendmail MAILPATH=/var/mail PKGDATADIR=/usr/local/share/mutt SYSCONFDIR=/etc EXECSHELL=/bin/sh -MIXMASTER To contact the developers, please mail to mutt-...@mutt.org. To report a bug, please visit http://bugs.mutt.org/. muttrc with private stuff deleted for this email: set imap_pass= set imap_user= set folder= set imap_check_subscribed set smtp_url= set smtp_pass= set mail_check=60 set timeout=60 set check_mbox_size=yes set pager_index_lines=11 unset user_agent set abort_nosubject=no set include=yes set from= set hostname= set signature= set sort=threads set strict_threads=yes set mbox_type=Maildir set spoolfile=+INBOX set record=~/.mutt/sent set postponed=~/.mutt/postponed set header_cache=~/.mutt/cache set message_cachedir=~/.mutt/msgcache set certificate_file=~/.mutt/certs set editor=emacs +8 %s -nw set edit_headers=yes set fast_reply=yes set content_type=text/enriched; charset=us-ascii source ~/.mutt/gpg.rc source ~/.mutt/score -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
I wasn't going to post in this thread but... On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 04:16:44PM +, Tony's unattended mail wrote: On 2012-11-20, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote: Ouch! Could you please set the line wrap value in your editor to a sane value? 72 characters seems to be the recommended setting. That was the recommendation in the 90s. These days, any decent news reader has word wrap. Considering the variety of wide displays, it's no longer reasonable to impose a fixed text width on an author. That is just wrong. The problem isn't news readers, it's people posting from web interfaces, especially google. I use slrn, probably the best all around news reader out there and it doesn't wrap unless you tell it. But even that looks bad. You can't make a sloppy pile of HTML or run-on sentences look like a newsgroup post or an acceptable email. There are standards and there is such a thing as common decency, even if it's less common than it was. Mail and news need to have sane line lengths. 72 or 76 chars are common. It makes people look like AOL groupies when they post 500 character lines. Many of us use console news clients and newsreaders. Is this discussion really happening on a mailing list for mutt, a console email client? Take some responsibility for yourself and your content. Post like a man not a webbot. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 06:24:49PM +, Tony's unattended mail wrote: On 2012-11-20, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote: Conventions are good, but only when they cater to those with *good* tools. When a convention caters to compensate for poorly designed tools, and then cause difficultly for others with good tools, the convention should be challenged, IMO. The tools are fine and they've been working fine for decades. It's just that most people are ignorant and lazy and have no respect for systems of conventions that are already in place, and want to webify everything whether it makes sense or not. Outlook, AOL, google groups, it's pretty much all about thumbing your nose at the world and saying you don't give a rat's a$$ about the other guy. Just follow the other sheeple and say everybody does it.
score on X-Mailer?
Can somebody explain if/how I can score on X-Mailer? There's a new spamming bastard on the block (mybizmailer.com) and it's hitting many tech lists. I'd like to score on X-Mailer: mybizmail but I'm missing something. I tried score '~h X-Mailer: mybizmail' -1000 but I get an error when I source the scorefile (~h not supported in this mode) and I don't understand what the message is telling me. Maybe I can't score with ~h Is there a way? Thank you. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Stupid reply tricks
I am sorry to have to ask this but I don't understand why I get a prompt when replying to messages with set fast_reply=yes is set in muttrc. Isn't this supposed to just open the editor without prompting you? Instead I get a message Reply to so-and-so? Like what's the big deal if it actually listened to me and opened the editor without confirming me to death ;-) I mean I can always cancel the edit session and not send the email! It seems like this used to work and now it doesn't and I can't find anything in the doc. Can someone please remind me what I am forgetting? Thanks. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: Stupid reply tricks
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 10:13:31AM -0400, David Haguenauer wrote: Hi John, Hi David thanks for your mail. I get a message Reply to so-and-so? It looks like you want the `reply_to' quadoption set to `yes' or `no' rather than the default `ask-yes': I will try that but I can't figure out why fast_reply seems to work sometimes and not others. For example with your post I was able to reply or list reply and I got the editor instantly with no prompting from Mutt. This email list is in my subscribe command in my muttrc. On other emails it prompts me to reply or not and I have no idea why yet. Personally, I like to be asked about funky Reply-To headers, but the setting exists so that you can tune Mutt to your own idea of what's best?:o). I have edit headers set and if I make a mistake I find it quicker to edit the headers or just cancel out of edit. I really hate responding to prompts that get in the way 99% of the time to save me a little work 1% of the time. So far Mutt seems to do a pretty good job guessing the right address(es) to respond to but I don't understand why it's prompting me sometimes and not others. Yet. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: Stupid reply tricks
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 10:39:17AM -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote: * John Long codeb...@inbox.lv [08-12-12 10:24]: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 10:13:31AM -0400, David Haguenauer wrote: I get a message Reply to so-and-so? It looks like you want the `reply_to' quadoption set to `yes' or `no' rather than the default `ask-yes': I will try that but I can't figure out why fast_reply seems to work sometimes and not others. For example with your post I was able to reply or list reply and I got the editor instantly with no prompting from Mutt. This email list is in my subscribe command in my muttrc. On other emails it prompts me to reply or not and I have no idea why yet. Without *any* research, I'll hazzard a guess that fast_reply will only work when the recipient is unambiguous. I hear you. I think that's it, but I haven't figured out why it is in certain cases and not othersIOW what is the common denominator. Thanks guys.
Re: Killfiling, anyone?
Thanks a lot for your post, David. I'll look it over. Some good ideas in there! -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: Killfiling, anyone?
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:23:14PM +0200, Christian Brabandt wrote: Hi John! Hello Christian! Christian, your idea is working pretty good so far but I didn't figure out how to source the script by binding it to a key. Is that possible somehow? I am afraid I don't understand. What doesn't work? Maybe I missed something because ever since I started to work on this I have only gotten one spam email to test on :-( I thought I had to source the script each time I receive mail. If so, can I bind it to a key somehow? Or did I misunderstand, and sourcing it once when Mutt starts will cause the scoring to work on every email in the index whether I get new mail during that session of Mutt or not? Or something else...? Thank you! -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: Killfiling, anyone?
I am afraid I don't understand. What doesn't work? Following up to myself... It seems sourcing the score file works even when new emails are received. Sorry I didn't test this properly before asking. I was just sourcing manually. Adding it to the startup seems to work fine. Thanks for the help! -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home! -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: alias
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 01:57:02PM +0200, SK wrote: Maybe I don't know enough about tmux (nor screen). How do you get to the mail server/mutt program? Through a ssh session? How do you visualize attachments? Do you use the -X option of ssh? Does tmux offer a tools for connecting to the server? I too have this problem. I use SSH to connect to a remote server and run mutt inside a tmux session, But I don't know how to view attachments or more importantly attach something locally from the machine accessing the tmux connection to the email from mutt! The part you quoted above asked if you have X forwarding enabled and if you're using it. There is nothing stopping you from opening attachments if you have X forwarding enabled and you ssh with -X or -Y. Any idea how to do these two steps (view attachment and send emails with attachment from local filesystem). You could scp the file over and attach it from there, or use NFS or some other shared file system accessible on both machines. Something amazing and simple you may like, if you have X running on both systems and you can install rox-filer, you can drag and drop cross system! It's much quicker and easier than using scp although NFS is a good solution, albeit not graphical. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: alias
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 08:22:20AM -0500, Luis Mochan wrote: On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 12:06:00PM +, John Long wrote: On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 01:57:02PM +0200, SK wrote: ... I too have this problem. I use SSH to connect to a remote server and run mutt inside a tmux session, But I don't know how to view attachments or more importantly attach something locally from the machine accessing the tmux connection to the email from mutt! The part you quoted above asked if you have X forwarding enabled and if you're using it. There is nothing stopping you from opening attachments if you have X forwarding enabled and you ssh with -X or -Y. Maybe this is a dumb question: as we can use IMAP to access remote mailboxes, could we also use it to access other remote files with configuration commands and 'source' them? No, IMAP is specifically an email protocol and isn't good for the general case of files. And even if it was, you would need IMAP servers running on all the other computers... Really this shouldn't be complicated. If you follow up the other poster's suggestions (sorry, lost track of the attribution) about X forwarding in SSH you can accomplish everything you want, as I understand it, and it will be trivial (should work by itself). But the usual caveats apply, for example if you want to open .doc attachments you must have some piece of software on the remote host that can process it. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: alias
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 02:18:59PM +, John Long wrote: On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 08:22:20AM -0500, Luis Mochan wrote: Maybe this is a dumb question: as we can use IMAP to access remote mailboxes, could we also use it to access other remote files with configuration commands and 'source' them? No, IMAP is specifically an email protocol and isn't good for the general case of files. And even if it was, you would need IMAP servers running on all the other computers... I didn't explain this very well. The issue (as I understand it from reading 3 posts in this thread) is you want to be able to access a file wherever it is and open it with whatever application is appropriate. You can't usually do that because most of these applications can't find the file. What X forwarding does is allow you to run X applications for example a browser, a file manager, OpenOffice.org on some PC and actually control it from the PC you're using now. If you're running Mutt over SSH then it is going to save and read files from the remote machine. When you try to open an attachment that needs X (like a PDF, .doc, etc) if you have X forwarding set in SSH the program on the same box Mutt is already running on can open it, but it will display it on *your* terminal. The problem of accessing files remotely doesn't exist in this case because Mutt, the file you want to open, and the application are *all* running on the remote host, only the *display* part of it is being done on your local system. This is much harder to understand than to actually do. You should try and see if you can SSH to the Mutt host with the -X or -Y options and then start a program that uses X and see if you get an error about invalid display or whether your application pops up on your local machine. Then we can go from there. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: alias
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 10:20:16AM -0500, Luis Mochan wrote: Thanks everybody for their answers and suggestions. I have tried X forwarding, but sometimes it is too slow (my network's fault, I believe), so I guess I'll just keep my separate configuration files in sync. Hi Luis, If you are working across the internet then many things can cause SSH to be slow and it requires both ends to do encryption/decryption so running on slow PCs can also affect it. If you are on your own network, one thing you can do that can significantly speed up X forwarding is using the RC4 (ARCFOUR) cipher instead of the default. It is not as secure as the other ciphers, but it is much, much faster. It is worth trying if you need X forwarding for some reason. On my local network I use several servers and use X forwarding heavily. The performance is as good as direct connection, but in reality only a few meters of cables are separating me from the servers so I would expect nothing less. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: Killfiling, anyone?
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 08:53:03PM +0200, Christian Brabandt wrote: Hi John! Hello! :) I used to have a little shell-script, that was killfiling within mutt for me (attached). It simply generates a pattern, that can be used by mutt to delete messages by scoring. I like what you did here and it is actually pretty close to what I wanted, but I guess it requires you to press the $ key to actually do the delete once the messages are scored and until then they actually show up in the index. What I would like to do is never see the messages at all. Is there any way to do this with your method or do I really need to take the advice of the (let me count...5 guys...did I miss anybody) who voted for procmail? PS: No, procmail was no option, since I used sieve scripts to deliver my mails. Then couldn't you have filtered from sieve? Why did you choose to do it from Mutt itself? Thanks alot for the help guys! -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: Killfiling, anyone?
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:55:25AM +0200, Christian Brabandt wrote: On Thu, July 26, 2012 11:38, John Long wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 08:53:03PM +0200, Christian Brabandt wrote: Hi John! Hello! :) I used to have a little shell-script, that was killfiling within mutt for me (attached). It simply generates a pattern, that can be used by mutt to delete messages by scoring. I like what you did here and it is actually pretty close to what I wanted, but I guess it requires you to press the $ key to actually do the delete once the messages are scored and until then they actually show up in the index. What I would like to do is never see the messages at all. Is there any way to do this with your method or do I really need to take the advice of the (let me count...5 guys...did I miss anybody) who voted for procmail? folder-hook . 'push sync-mailbox' should apply the settings. Thanks, I'll give this a try! I would still prefer not to see the emails, but this may be a good solution until I learn/implement procmail. /john -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: Killfiling, anyone?
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 08:53:03PM +0200, Christian Brabandt wrote: Additionally, I needed to set up scoring for mutt like this: Christian, your idea is working pretty good so far but I didn't figure out how to source the script by binding it to a key. Is that possible somehow? -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Killfiling, anyone?
Guys, what are you using for killfiling/mail filtering? I am using Mutt's built in POP and SMTP at this point, is there any way to killfile emails based on header contents? Scoring won't be enough, I want to delete this crap as the email is being downloaded from my mail provider. I am not looking for bayesian or other high-falutin' anti spam measures. I want to create my own killfile like I do with my newsreader, basically just creating rules that match the idiots that spam the mailing lists I'm in. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: Killfiling, anyone?
That's three votes for procmail. I guess I will have to look into it! Thanks everybody. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Re: Thank you for Mutt
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 04:33:13AM -0500, Jim Graham wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 04:17:59AM -0500, Jim Graham wrote: On one list I'm on (the Chile-Heads list, fwiw), from time to time the topic of replying to the list will come up, and the fact that most have to do a reply-all to reply to the list, and the resulting duplicate copy that some people get gets people irritated. I sometimes just respond suggesting that they just configure their e-mail program to recognize the list and to use a list-reply. Too bad their e-mail clients just can't do that. Oh well, mine can ;-} Yeah this is a pet peeve of mine as well. I hate getting two copies of a message just because people can't figure out I read the mailing list they're responding to. At least *I* don't do thath to other people! Thanks, Mutt! -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Thank you for Mutt
I used Mutt stable years ago and for whatever reasons, too many email accounts I guess, I got away from it. Using the development version recently has been such a pleasure. Everything works as expected and there are lots of nice features. More than I will ever use. It's perfect when you have a lot of computers and need to reduce complexity. Instead of dragging a heavy GUI client to all the boxes in my network, I set up Mutt with one account on each of my boxes and save the GUI client for my main desktop. With Mutt I have high performance lightweight email with gpg support everywhere! Thanks to all the Mutt developers, contributors, and user community. Mutt is a great app! It doesn't suck at all. -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
Slrn-like colors
There is more work to be done but I have mutt looking pretty similar to the default slrn colors now after help from various people (thank you) and some experimenting. What I haven't been able to accomplish is to color various parts of headers (within the header itself, not between one header and another) like slrn does and this may not be possible. In case anyone can use it, here it is # Colorize as much as possible like slrn defaults color hdrdefault brightcyan black color quoted red black color signature red black color attachment red black color message brightred black color error brightred black color indicator brightyellow blue color status brightyellow blue color tree white black color normal white black color markers red black color search white black color tilde brightmagenta black color index blue black ~F color index brightwhite black ~N|~O -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachmentsCode Blue or Go Home!
