Re: How does Ian do the "name > " quoting?

[Samir Benmendil]

On Jan 10, 2016 at 8:11, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 09Jan2016 04:22, David Ellement  wrote:

On 2016-01-09, Cameron Simpson wrote

My current practice is: leave this alone, and use format=flowed ...
I'm a vim user, so if you also are I can assist in vim modes to aid
format=flowed composition. I highly recommend it!


I'm interested; perhaps there are others.  If you get multiple
responses, could you reply to the list?  (Or a link, if the information
is available somewhere).


There was a long thread back in September 2015 about this.

For me the core items are the mutt settings "text_flowed=yes" and the 
vim setting "set formatoptions=waqj".


In more detail:

mutt settings: text_flowed=yes, reflow_text=yes, reflow_wrap=-4
I set "editor=vim-flowed" when composing/replying to mail. It is 
normally  just vim, as vim-flowed is hyper annoying if you're not 
editing email; so it  is just vim (well, $EDITOR) even in my mutt 
settings - only the mail editing  phase gets vim-flowed.


and vim-flowed is here:

https://bitbucket.org/cameron_simpson/css/src/tip/bin/vim-flowed

It trims trailing spaces from the headers (I use "edit_headers=yes") 
and invokes vim with "set formatoptions=waqj".
Why not put these settings in `ftplugin/mail.vim` or in a `autocmd 
FileType mail [..]`?


Anyway, these are my mail.vim settings:
https://git.rmz.io/dotfiles.git/blob/HEAD:/vim/ftplugin/mail.vim

I do a bit more mangling than you.

Re: How does Ian do the "name >" quoting?

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Sat, Jan 09, 2016 at 06:45:37PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> My current practice is: leave this alone, and use format=flowed for my
> messages. This actually _requires_ the standard quote indent, and lets me
> write messages (like this one) which will reflow nicely to fit the reader's
> screen, yet look ok in a purely dumb pager like less because it is
> physically folded around 72 characters.

This is somewhat tangential, but I wanted to mention a new option in hg,
$reflow_space_quotes, which converts the squished ">>>" ff quotes into
"> > > " in the pager, and also in the editor for non-ff users.  If any
of you happen to feel brave and want to try hg tip, I'd appreciate any
feedback about it.  The option is on by default, and there is some
documentation at  under
"6.4.4. Reformatting".

-- 
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA
http://www.8t8.us/configs/gpg-key-transition-statement.txt


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Description: PGP signature

Re: How does Ian do the "name >" quoting?

[Xu Wang]

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Chris Bannister
 wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 11:34:17PM -0500, Xu Wang wrote:
>> Sometimes I observe that Ian quotes emails such as:
>>
>> Michael> its own MTA. The one at Apptix is the obvious, but Apptix's
>> Michael> SMTP service is crypted and authenticated, and I haven't found
>> Michael> a way to make mutt log in as me.
>>
>> Is this a setting in mutt or does he do that manually? What is the
>> name of that type of quoting?
>
> It is very annoying. Please don't consider it.
>
> --
> "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
> who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
> oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Would it be less annoying if the name were only given at the top of
each block? e.g

John > This is a line that spans
 > several paragraphs but we only
 > state name on first line
Xu > I see. that is good to know. I think
 > people will still find it annoying though.

Kind regards,

Xu

Re: How does Ian do the "name >" quoting?

[Xu Wang]

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> On 09Jan2016 09:22, Xu Wang  wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Chris Bannister
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 11:34:17PM -0500, Xu Wang wrote:

 Sometimes I observe that Ian quotes emails such as:
 Michael> its own MTA. The one at Apptix is the obvious, but Apptix's
 Michael> SMTP service is crypted and authenticated, and I haven't found
 Michael> a way to make mutt log in as me.

 Is this a setting in mutt or does he do that manually? What is the
 name of that type of quoting?
>>>
>>>
> [...]
>>
>> Would it be less annoying if the name were only given at the top of
>> each block? e.g
>>
>> John > This is a line that spans
>> > several paragraphs but we only
>> > state name on first line
>> Xu > I see. that is good to know. I think
>> > people will still find it annoying though.
>
>
> I have thought of a better approach: don't change the quoting, change mutt's
> display_filter.
>
> Xu's wish is to have more nicely annotated quoted text. Write a parser which
> reads _standard_ quotes text and relabels is as above for _display_
> purposes.  It looks like a lot of the hard work may already be done in these
> supercite programs already mentioned. Then Xu can, on a personal basis, "set
> display_filter=..." to get this.
>
> Caveat: I think mutt runs the display_filter to get the text which is quoted
> when you reply, so you need to unset this before replying to a message in
> order to preserve the standard quote format.
>
> Cheers,
> Cameron Simpson 

Ah yes you are right! I am not interested in making others suffer. Is
simply that I get lost when there are several levels of quoting and
when reading it would be nice to read in a different way.

Kind regards,

Xu

Re: How does Ian do the "name >" quoting?

[Cameron Simpson]

On 09Jan2016 04:22, David Ellement  wrote:

On 2016-01-09, Cameron Simpson wrote

My current practice is: leave this alone, and use format=flowed ...
I'm a vim user, so if you also are I can assist in vim modes to aid
format=flowed composition. I highly recommend it!


I'm interested; perhaps there are others.  If you get multiple
responses, could you reply to the list?  (Or a link, if the information
is available somewhere).


There was a long thread back in September 2015 about this.

For me the core items are the mutt settings "text_flowed=yes" and the vim 
setting "set formatoptions=waqj".


In more detail:

 mutt settings: text_flowed=yes, reflow_text=yes, reflow_wrap=-4
 I set "editor=vim-flowed" when composing/replying to mail. It is normally 
 just vim, as vim-flowed is hyper annoying if you're not editing email; so it 
 is just vim (well, $EDITOR) even in my mutt settings - only the mail editing 
 phase gets vim-flowed.


and vim-flowed is here:

 https://bitbucket.org/cameron_simpson/css/src/tip/bin/vim-flowed

It trims trailing spaces from the headers (I use "edit_headers=yes") and 
invokes vim with "set formatoptions=waqj".


Actually this is a bit of a simplification too. I actually set editor=muttedit 
which is a wrapper script to edit in tmux or screen, and _that_ invoked mutt 
with editor=vim-flowed.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

Re: How does Ian do the "name >" quoting?

[Cameron Simpson]

On 09Jan2016 09:22, Xu Wang  wrote:

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Chris Bannister
 wrote:

On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 11:34:17PM -0500, Xu Wang wrote:

Sometimes I observe that Ian quotes emails such as:
Michael> its own MTA. The one at Apptix is the obvious, but Apptix's
Michael> SMTP service is crypted and authenticated, and I haven't found
Michael> a way to make mutt log in as me.

Is this a setting in mutt or does he do that manually? What is the
name of that type of quoting?



[...]

Would it be less annoying if the name were only given at the top of
each block? e.g

John > This is a line that spans
> several paragraphs but we only
> state name on first line
Xu > I see. that is good to know. I think
> people will still find it annoying though.


I have thought of a better approach: don't change the quoting, change mutt's 
display_filter.


Xu's wish is to have more nicely annotated quoted text. Write a parser which 
reads _standard_ quotes text and relabels is as above for _display_ purposes.  
It looks like a lot of the hard work may already be done in these supercite 
programs already mentioned. Then Xu can, on a personal basis, "set 
display_filter=..." to get this.


Caveat: I think mutt runs the display_filter to get the text which is quoted 
when you reply, so you need to unset this before replying to a message in order 
to preserve the standard quote format.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

Re: How does Ian do the "name >" quoting?

[Cameron Simpson]

On 08Jan2016 23:34, Xu Wang  wrote:

Sometimes I observe that Ian quotes emails such as:

Michael> its own MTA. The one at Apptix is the obvious, but Apptix's
Michael> SMTP service is crypted and authenticated, and I haven't found
Michael> a way to make mutt log in as me.

Is this a setting in mutt or does he do that manually? What is the
name of that type of quoting?


You can't do it directly in mutt without some extra stuff; mutt has the 
$indent_string variable you can set to replace the standard ">" with a string.  
It is a format string, so you could embed %f and stuff in it. See the doco for 
this setting, which in turn directs you to the $index_format doco for what you 
can put in it.


I used to set it to "| " myself because I thought it looked better, but all 
these weirdnesses make it hard for receiving programs to recognise quoted 
material automatically, and I have abandoned the practice entirely.


My current practice is: leave this alone, and use format=flowed for my 
messages. This actually _requires_ the standard quote indent, and lets me write 
messages (like this one) which will reflow nicely to fit the reader's screen, 
yet look ok in a purely dumb pager like less because it is physically folded 
around 72 characters.


I'm a vim user, so if you also are I can assist in vim modes to aid 
format=flowed composition. I highly recommend it!


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

Re: How does Ian do the "name >" quoting?

[Chris Bannister]

On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 11:34:17PM -0500, Xu Wang wrote:
> Sometimes I observe that Ian quotes emails such as:
> 
> Michael> its own MTA. The one at Apptix is the obvious, but Apptix's
> Michael> SMTP service is crypted and authenticated, and I haven't found
> Michael> a way to make mutt log in as me.
> 
> Is this a setting in mutt or does he do that manually? What is the
> name of that type of quoting?

It is very annoying. Please don't consider it.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

How does Ian do the "name >" quoting?

[Xu Wang]

Sometimes I observe that Ian quotes emails such as:

Michael> its own MTA. The one at Apptix is the obvious, but Apptix's
Michael> SMTP service is crypted and authenticated, and I haven't found
Michael> a way to make mutt log in as me.

Is this a setting in mutt or does he do that manually? What is the
name of that type of quoting?

Kind regards,

Xu