Re: NNTP reader?

2011-10-04 Thread Derek Martin
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:12:22PM -0300, Aaron Toponce wrote:
 I love it when something someone doesn't agree with gets tagged as
 trolling. Meh.

I love it when something that's trolling gets tagged as trolling.
Seriously... you posted an e-mail in a public forum  whose sole
content was to proclaim that a long-time and respected member of the
community misused the term operating system in his post.  So,
let's see...

  * Off topic, for both the thread and this list?  Check.
  * Contains language which is incendiary or expected to produce an
emotional response?  (Not sure how butting in to tell someone flatly that
their usage of terminology is wrong could not be viewed that way.) Check.
  * Argumentative without making a useful point?  Check.
  * Contributes zero to the OP's (or any) discussion?  Check.
  * text book definition of trolling?  Check.
 
So there you have it.  Your post was trolling, by definition.  I tried
to be nicer about pointing out that you were trolling, but you weren't
having any of that...  I suspect most people would agree that your
suggestion that the way David used Linux and Operating System
together was inappropriate is rather silly, but sadly that can not be
proven.

 Tell you what, you install just the Linux kernel, and nothing more, on your
 laptop, and tell me just how usable your operating system is.

Trolling in the very e-mail where one attempts to suggest that one is
not trolling: Priceless™  

Have a lovely day.

-- 
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Re: NNTP reader?

2011-10-04 Thread Alexander Gattin
Hello,

On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 12:49:20PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
 On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 02:46:43PM -0600, Aaron Toponce wrote:
  Linux is a kernel, not an operating system.
 
 I suggest you not go there (like, ever). This
 statement is at least arguably false on several
 levels,

Well, Linux is just a kernel, there's nothing to
argue about. Mutt is MUA, not a framework for
MUA/NNTPUA/whatever-you-like. Hope you get it.

On the other hand, both are free as in free
speech, so you are obviously free to tailor them
to your liking, producing Linux-as-a-system, or
mutt-as-a-framework.

Please don't forget then, that mutt and Linux
Developers are also free to either accept or
reject you patches and this will serve as a
indicator of Linux's as-a-systemness or mutt's
as-a-frameworkiness in public opinion.

-- 
With best regards,
xrgtn


Re: NNTP reader?

2011-10-03 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2011-09-30, Aaron Toponce aaron.topo...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 09/29/2011 06:17 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
 Hi, does anyone knows if it can be possible to read/subscribe to newsgroups
 (nntp) with mutt?.

 Mutt is just an MUA, and attempts to extend it into anything more than
 that (RSS reader, NNTP reader, etc.) are silly IMO. If you must
 absolutely have NNTP and mail, then Mutt isn't for you. I would
 recommend using Gnus (http://gnus.org).

Many mutt users find slrn to be sufficiently mutt-like that they
decide to forget about trying to pound the mutt peg into the nntp
hole.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! I'm using my X-RAY
  at   VISION to obtain a rare
  gmail.comglimpse of the INNER
   WORKINGS of this POTATO!!



Re: NNTP reader?

2011-10-03 Thread Chris G
On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 02:33:45PM +, Grant Edwards wrote:
 On 2011-09-30, Aaron Toponce aaron.topo...@gmail.com wrote:
  On 09/29/2011 06:17 AM, Leonardo M. Ram? wrote:
  Hi, does anyone knows if it can be possible to read/subscribe to newsgroups
  (nntp) with mutt?.
 
  Mutt is just an MUA, and attempts to extend it into anything more than
  that (RSS reader, NNTP reader, etc.) are silly IMO. If you must
  absolutely have NNTP and mail, then Mutt isn't for you. I would
  recommend using Gnus (http://gnus.org).
 
 Many mutt users find slrn to be sufficiently mutt-like that they
 decide to forget about trying to pound the mutt peg into the nntp
 hole.
 
Personally I use tin rather than slrn as it seems to fit my 'mutt mind'
better. 

-- 
Chris Green


Re: NNTP reader?

2011-10-03 Thread Derek Martin
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 02:46:43PM -0600, Aaron Toponce wrote:
 On 09/30/2011 01:04 PM, David Champion wrote:
  Linux is just a server platform, and attempts to make it anything more
  than that (desktop, embedded system, etc.) are silly.  If you must
  absolutely have POSIX and a desktop, then Linux isn't for you.  I would
  recomend using MacOS (http://apple.com).
 
 Linux is a kernel, not an operating system.

I suggest you not go there (like, ever).  This statement is at least
arguably false on several levels, and its truth value really depends
on the definitions of some terms that at best have been somewhat fluid
over time or variable depending on what authority you use...  It's
more the matter of religious dogma than technical or literal fact, and
practically speaking, it matters not at all... All but the most
neophyte of readers (and probably most of those even, I would guess)
will understand what was meant.

-- 
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Re: NNTP reader?

2011-10-03 Thread Derek Martin
On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 01:39:11PM -0600, Aaron Toponce wrote:
 On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 12:49:20PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
   Linux is a kernel, not an operating system.
 
  I suggest you not go there (like, ever).  This statement is at least
  arguably false on several levels, and its truth value really depends
  on the definitions of some terms that at best have been somewhat fluid
  over time or variable depending on what authority you use...  It's
  more the matter of religious dogma than technical or literal fact, and
  practically speaking, it matters not at all... All but the most
  neophyte of readers (and probably most of those even, I would guess)
  will understand what was meant.
 
 Oh brother. This has nothing to do with religious dogma. It's a kernel.
 That's it. It's an operating system kernel. Plain and simple. Read this in
 case you think otherwise:
 
 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Linux_kernel

Oh brother indeed.

   I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big
   and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been
   brewing since April, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any
   feedback on things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles
   it somewhat (same physical layout of the file-system (due to
   practical reasons) among other things).

1. Linus himself calls it an operating system, in that very document
to which you referred.  

2. Multiple learning materials I used as text books in computer sience
and technology classes in college 100 years ago and my own leisure
reading defined the operating system as the kernel.  

3. There exist a whole classification of products which bear the Linux
name which are not just the Linux Kernel, which collectively are
referred to as Linux by most of the industry (except for GNU
bigots^H^H^H^H^H^Henthusiasts).  

So again, your statement is at least arguably false, on multiple
levels.  As I said.  You can argue these are all wrong if you want to,
but I can find legitimate authorities to refute that as easily as
you can find them to support it.  So again, it's dogma, not fact.
I put legitimate authorities in quotes because we have no language
police, other than those self-appointed to the task.  There are no
true bona fide authorities, only historical usage.  Which is fine,
because words obtain their meanings in that fashion.

-- 
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Re: NNTP reader?

2011-10-03 Thread Derek Martin
On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 03:13:54PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
 I put legitimate authorities in quotes because we have no language
 police

...unless you live in France, Belgium, Switzerland, or Quebec. =8^)

-- 
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Re: NNTP reader?

2011-10-03 Thread Derek Martin
On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 03:31:37PM -0600, Aaron Toponce wrote:
 Legitimate authorities categorized Pluto a planet, even though many in the
 scientific community would argue otherwise. Of course, legitimate
 authorities are never wrong, are they?

That is exactly my point, thanks for making it.   Or perhaps your
own authority on this topic is somehow irrefutable and inscrutable?
Oh, right, you have wikipedia on your side, which everyone knows is,
in fact, irrefutable and inscrutable.  I forgot.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux

  Linux is a computer operating system which is based on free and
  open source software.

  Linux is a leading server operating system, and runs the 10 fastest
  supercomputers in the world.

What you are arguing is semantics, and that's never terribly a
productive use of your time.  Calling someone out for using a word
in a way that you personally don't agree with even though you
understood perfectly well what was meant is equally unproductive and
pointless, except perhaps to massage your own ego.  Doing so when the
that usage of the term clearly has copious extant examples
demonstrating accepted usage, as in this case (googling the *exact
phrase* Linux operating system yeilds 4.7 MILLION results), is just
trolling.  And that, IMO, does deserve to be called out.

-- 
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Re: NNTP reader?

2011-09-30 Thread XeCycle
Aaron Toponce aaron.topo...@gmail.com writes:

 On 09/29/2011 06:17 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
 Hi, does anyone knows if it can be possible to read/subscribe to newsgroups
 (nntp) with mutt?.

 Mutt is just an MUA, and attempts to extend it into anything more than
 that (RSS reader, NNTP reader, etc.) are silly IMO. If you must
 absolutely have NNTP and mail, then Mutt isn't for you. I would
 recommend using Gnus (http://gnus.org).

Gnus is too slow.  (Yes, I use it, I tolerate it) I won't recommend Gnus
if you really like mutt, I don't like mutt very much so I switched.

As for an NNTP reader, try slrn.

-- 
Carl Lei (XeCycle)
Department of Physics, Shanghai Jiao Tong University
OpenPGP public key: 7795E591
Fingerprint: 1FB6 7F1F D45D F681 C845 27F7 8D71 8EC4 7795 E591


Re: NNTP reader?

2011-09-30 Thread Derek Martin
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 08:42:24AM -0600, Aaron Toponce wrote:
 On 09/29/2011 06:17 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
  Hi, does anyone knows if it can be possible to read/subscribe to newsgroups
  (nntp) with mutt?.
 
 Mutt is just an MUA, and attempts to extend it into anything more than
 that (RSS reader, NNTP reader, etc.) are silly IMO. If you must
 absolutely have NNTP and mail, then Mutt isn't for you. I would
 recommend using Gnus (http://gnus.org).

I didn't see the start of this thread so sorry if this is a repeat...
There is an NNTP patch for mutt, and some people swear by it.  There
are a lot of arguments against the patch, but integrating mail and
NNTP is not such a crazy idea... fundamentally they're basically the
same thing, with a lot of the same types of operations and behaviors.
There obviously are important differences though, and mutt just wasn't
really written with that in mind, so the integration (codewise) is a
bit clunky.

You can find out about the NNTP patch, and a bunch of other useful
patches, here:

  http://wiki.mutt.org/?PatchList


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Re: NNTP reader?

2011-09-30 Thread David Champion
* On 30 Sep 2011, Aaron Toponce wrote: 
 On 09/29/2011 06:17 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
  Hi, does anyone knows if it can be possible to read/subscribe to newsgroups
  (nntp) with mutt?.
 
 Mutt is just an MUA, and attempts to extend it into anything more than
 that (RSS reader, NNTP reader, etc.) are silly IMO. If you must
 absolutely have NNTP and mail, then Mutt isn't for you. I would
 recommend using Gnus (http://gnus.org).

Linux is just a server platform, and attempts to make it anything more
than that (desktop, embedded system, etc.) are silly.  If you must
absolutely have POSIX and a desktop, then Linux isn't for you.  I would
recomend using MacOS (http://apple.com).

No doubt some people would agree with that, but there are thousands who
do not and hundreds who are working precisely in opposition to that
sentiment.  Why is this different?

The vvv NNTP patch works quite well, if you're comfortable compiling
mutt for yourself.  I quit reading Usenet a few years back and haven't
been building in NNTP support since, but it was a good solution for me
at the time. http://mutt.org.ua/download/

-- 
David Champion • d...@uchicago.edu • IT Services • University of Chicago


Re: NNTP reader?

2011-09-30 Thread Mandar Mitra
Leonardo M. Ramé wrote (Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:53:32AM -0300):
 
 That could what I'm looking for. It would be nice to let slrn store the
 results in different mbox folders, so I can access them using mutt.

I used this method a while back to read Usenet newsgroups. Have attached a
script that I used at the time, in case it's of any use to you as a
starting point.

mandar.
#!/bin/tcsh

set slrnpull = /usr/bin/slrnpull
set newsdir = /var/spool/slrnpull/news/rec/music/indian/classical
set logfile = /tmp/slrnpull.mandar
#set host = news.cs.tu-berlin.de
set host = dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu

$slrnpull --expire --logfile $logfile

cd $newsdir
foreach f (`/bin/ls [0-9]*`)
/usr/bin/formail -a Article: $f of rec.music.indian.classical -I Path:  
$f ! $HOME/News/rmic.slrn
/bin/rm $f
sleep 1
end

echo   $logfile

$slrnpull -h $host --logfile $logfile

/bin/mail mandar -s slrnpull log  $logfile
/bin/rm $logfile


Re: NNTP reader?

2011-09-30 Thread Andreas Kneib
* David Champion schrieb am Freitag, den 30. September 2011:

 Linux is just a server platform,
[...]
 I would recomend using MacOS (http://apple.com).

Yes, Linux is the OS without a GUI and MacOS ist the OS
with a GUI¹

;)

Andreas
--
¹ GUI = Girls Use It



Re: NNTP reader?

2011-09-29 Thread Max A . K .
29 сентября 2011, 16:17 от Leonardo M. Ramé l.r...@griensu.com:
 I've read there are third-party patches for this, but I would like to find an 
 easier way.

There are some software which tansforms nntp to mail (send to mailbox or 
present as IMAP), but I would not call it an easier way. At leas for me it was 
easier to patch and rebuild mutt than get such software working in proper way. 
The patch works quite good and stable.

-- 
Max

Re: NNTP reader?

2011-09-29 Thread Andreas Kneib
* Leonardo M. Ramé schrieb am Donnerstag, den 29. September 2011:

 Hi, does anyone knows if it can be possible to read/subscribe to
 newsgroups (nntp) with mutt?.

Only read?

If you pull the articles of a newsgroup with slrnpull, you can read they
e.g. with

$ mutt -f .slrn/spool/news/de/rec/film/misc


Andreas


Re: NNTP reader?

2011-09-29 Thread Leonardo M . Ramé
On 2011-09-29 14:42:44 +0200, Andreas Kneib wrote:
 * Leonardo M. Ramé schrieb am Donnerstag, den 29. September 2011:
 
  Hi, does anyone knows if it can be possible to read/subscribe to
  newsgroups (nntp) with mutt?.
 
 Only read?
 
 If you pull the articles of a newsgroup with slrnpull, you can read they
 e.g. with
 
 $ mutt -f .slrn/spool/news/de/rec/film/misc
 
 
 Andreas

That could what I'm looking for. It would be nice to let slrn store the
results in different mbox folders, so I can access them using mutt.

-- 
Leonardo M. Ramé
http://leonardorame.blogspot.com