Re: Namespace with/without on dovecot server on/off and issues

2013-10-16 Thread miro
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 09:29:56AM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote:
 On 13Oct2013 21:56, miro miro.ro...@croatiafidelis.hr wrote:
   () while I spent weeks on postfix, and I do have some understanding 
  now of it: it is a great program!, I wasn't able to configure it for just 
  smtp (no smtpd, I don't need that at this time), because some things are 
  really hidden in very ample documentation and not easy to phathom... so 
  much so that I went on a rampage of learning stunnel and particular 
  configuration of /etc/default/saslauthd-root_postfix that needed to talk to 
  /var/spool/postfix/var/run/saslauthd/mux socket or what not... and still 
  didn't get things to work... And on the other hand I got this sSMTP program 
  to work in a matter of hours...
 
 Just to address postfix:
 
 I run a local postfix, with the critical configuration line:
 
   relayhost = 127.0.0.2:1025
 
 which points at an ssh tunnel, which connects to my preferred SMTP
 server (ssh to home server, port forward to its mail system).
 
 This is my solution for a mobile host (my laptop): it delivers via the ssh
 tunnel to my home server which as a static relayhost to my home ISP.
 
 The nice thing about a local postfix is that the mail queue of
 unsent email (i.e. I am offline when composing it) is readily visible
 with the mailq command, and mutt doesn't need to care about
 online/offline; it just delivers locally via sendmail.
 
 Cheers,
 -- 
 Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au
 
 Squidliness is next to DoDliness.   - Ancient Tibetan Proverb

Good for you!

I know. And actually I was close to succeeding with postfix... (found an old 
message with a reply from server telling why it didn't send the message... but 
it got the message)...
But for now, I can't bother. I'm killed by so much work to get even this far...

Cheers!


Re: Namespace with/without on dovecot server on/off and issues

2013-10-14 Thread miro
On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:15:59AM +0200, John Niendorf wrote:
 Congratulations Miroslav,
 
 Boy it sounds like you had a much more difficult time than I did.
 I didn't know anything about Mutt a few months ago, but I was able
 to download Mutt-patched from the Ubuntu repository and get it going
 without too much fuss.
 But then, I'm using Mutt to access my email account on a server at
 my hosting company.  It sounds like you set up EVERYTHING from
 scratch.
 
 John
 

Thanks, John, for the congrats and for the condolances :-) !

This is what happened. This is how I know that the mailhub is doing what they 
say it would do (I was given the exact domain lin16.mojsite.com and the port 
465, and port 465 is exactly the urd below, you can find it in /etc/services 
on your machine.

Surely, it also tells me that my mail tools, here it is dovecot server (but I 
can't see any action pertaining solely to dovecot in the pcapng pastes below), 
it is Mutt and it is sSMTP, that do what the configuration files say they do. 
Again, I couldn't cut out exactly, where the task of one starts/stops and 
another starts/stops.

Minimally edited for just the MACs. I want to be able to learn to be 
unsurveilled on the web... The dns of the server is not anything really 
necessary to hide, this is almost an advertisement for my mail provider, 
because they work as supposed...

258 17.147447000SomeFirm_xx:xx:xx   ARP 44  Who has 
192.168.3.22?  Tell 192.168.3.21
259 17.147644000OtherFirm_xx:xx:xx  ARP 62  
192.168.3.22 is at xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
260 19.325124000192.168.5.90192.168.5.1 DNS 79  
Standard query 0x4973  A lin16.mojsite.com
261 19.32663192.168.5.90192.168.5.1 DNS 79  
Standard query 0x2b12   lin16.mojsite.com
262 19.346983000YetOtherFirm_xx:xx:xx   ARP 62  Who has 
192.168.5.90?  Tell 192.168.5.1
263 19.347018000OtherFirm_xx:xx:xx  ARP 44  
192.168.5.90 is at xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
264 19.347365000192.168.5.1 192.168.5.90DNS 95  
Standard query response 0x4973  A 178.218.164.164
265 19.348231000192.168.5.1 192.168.5.90DNS 79  
Standard query response 0x2b12 
266 19.348428000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TCP 76  49426  
urd [SYN] Seq=0 Win=29200 Len=0 MSS=1460 SACK_PERM=1 TSval=3886410 TSecr=0 
WS=128
267 19.36757178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TCP 76  urd  
49426 [SYN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=5792 Len=0 MSS=1420 SACK_PERM=1 
TSval=1893922356 TSecr=3886410 WS=128
268 19.367638000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TCP 68  49426  
urd [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=29312 Len=0 TSval=3886415 TSecr=1893922356
269 19.368215000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TLSv1   157 Client 
Hello
270 19.389478000178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TCP 68  urd  
49426 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=90 Win=5888 Len=0 TSval=1893922378 TSecr=3886415
271 19.406047000178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TLSv1   1476Server 
Hello
272 19.40624192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TCP 68  49426  
urd [ACK] Seq=90 Ack=1409 Win=32128 Len=0 TSval=3886424 TSecr=1893922393
273 19.407513000178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TCP 1476[TCP 
segment of a reassembled PDU]
274 19.407593000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TCP 68  49426  
urd [ACK] Seq=90 Ack=2817 Win=35072 Len=0 TSval=3886425 TSecr=1893922393
275 19.427755000178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TCP 1476[TCP 
segment of a reassembled PDU]
276 19.427878000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TCP 68  49426  
urd [ACK] Seq=90 Ack=4225 Win=37888 Len=0 TSval=3886430 TSecr=1893922414
277 19.428612000178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TLSv1   939 
Certificate
278 19.428782000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TCP 68  49426  
urd [ACK] Seq=90 Ack=5096 Win=40832 Len=0 TSval=3886430 TSecr=1893922414
279 19.432452000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TLSv1   335 Client 
Key Exchange
280 19.495123000178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TCP 68  urd  
49426 [ACK] Seq=5096 Ack=357 Win=6912 Len=0 TSval=1893922484 TSecr=3886431
281 19.495186000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TLSv1   127 Change 
Cipher Spec, Encrypted Handshake Message
282 19.51712178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TCP 68  urd  
49426 [ACK] Seq=5096 Ack=416 Win=6912 Len=0 TSval=1893922503 TSecr=3886446
283 19.517296000178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TLSv1   127 Change 
Cipher Spec, Encrypted Handshake Message
284 19.518166000178.218.164.164 192.168.5.90TLSv1   318 
Application Data, Application Data
285 19.518381000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TCP 68  49426  
urd [ACK] Seq=416 Ack=5405 Win=43648 Len=0 TSval=3886452 TSecr=1893922503
286 19.518548000192.168.5.90178.218.164.164 TLSv1   265 

Re: Namespace with/without on dovecot server on/off and issues

2013-10-14 Thread Cameron Simpson
On 13Oct2013 21:56, miro miro.ro...@croatiafidelis.hr wrote:
  () while I spent weeks on postfix, and I do have some understanding now 
 of it: it is a great program!, I wasn't able to configure it for just smtp 
 (no smtpd, I don't need that at this time), because some things are really 
 hidden in very ample documentation and not easy to phathom... so much so that 
 I went on a rampage of learning stunnel and particular configuration of 
 /etc/default/saslauthd-root_postfix that needed to talk to 
 /var/spool/postfix/var/run/saslauthd/mux socket or what not... and still 
 didn't get things to work... And on the other hand I got this sSMTP program 
 to work in a matter of hours...

Just to address postfix:

I run a local postfix, with the critical configuration line:

  relayhost = 127.0.0.2:1025

which points at an ssh tunnel, which connects to my preferred SMTP
server (ssh to home server, port forward to its mail system).

This is my solution for a mobile host (my laptop): it delivers via the ssh
tunnel to my home server which as a static relayhost to my home ISP.

The nice thing about a local postfix is that the mail queue of
unsent email (i.e. I am offline when composing it) is readily visible
with the mailq command, and mutt doesn't need to care about
online/offline; it just delivers locally via sendmail.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au

Squidliness is next to DoDliness.   - Ancient Tibetan Proverb


Re: Namespace with/without on dovecot server on/off and issues

2013-10-13 Thread miro
On Sun, Oct 06, 2013 at 07:34:36AM +0200, miro.ro...@croatiafidelis.hr wrote:
 I'm trying to reply to this thread, but I still haven't set up all
 the mail tools, so...


And that was the case for weeks! Do you know, folks, that you are guilty of
criminal offence of compelling old people like me to read your manuals, wikis,
howtos and things for longer than the inventors of the internet spent on this
newfangled virtual thingies!

Aargh, I think I finally got the first mail out with normal tools, meaning 
dovecot, mutt and ...the following took me so long that I could cry on your 
shoulder, kind reader!: ... and with sSMTP after I finally understood that 
postfix was an overkill for my needs, and that sSMTP was just fine, and that it 
must be within my intellectual reach after all the weeks of dedicated study of 
the agglomerate of mailing tools that I was to choose for my future life on the 
internet, with a little more chance for true privacy and freedom...

(Just in case: of course I was joking about you people compelling old people to 
study.)

I am so confident that things are working, and this will be my first (the test 
mail that I just successfully sent is not counted) mail in earnest, that is, 
without the help of the odious M$ Outlook or somesuch, which I stopped using at 
least five or more years ago, and even without the clever GUI tools like 
Thunderbird or Claws-Mail, which are so much better, but they don't compare 
with the power that Mutt and his friends Dovecot, Getmail, Maildrop and sSMTP 
can arm myself with... So confident that things work now, that I will go 
somewhat desparate and unstable if they don't yet again.

 http://marc.info/?l=mutt-usersm=138021971816188w=2
 
 I have made progress on this issue.
 For now, have a look at how I solved it, here:
 
 http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2013-October/092810.html
 
 and there's today's message, which is due anytime there.
 
 But not all is solved, and there are issues.

There are issues, and I intend to expand on them in the subsequent mail.

Let me just, after weeks of my personal research for an actually rather typical 
user case like mine (no real but only fantasy FQDN hostname, my case being SOHO 
doesn't subtract much to the typicality of my case), let my just emphasize my 
findings of what is the best to use for standalone (or part of SOHO) host, in 
general terms.

So people who are looking for real mailing life, and don't want to depend on 
fine GUI solution that are actually more complicated that the following, only 
under the hood, but that's exactly where you need to know things when real 
issues affect you in you life on the internet where you need free and 
unsurveilled moving and friendship to you wishes and not to some yucky 
stasibook, sorry I meant zucky Facebook or the likes...

So for real mailing tools, according to my real-life-needs research that I have 
now successfully completed the minimun indispensable for, and which research 
lasted pretty long because of my slowliness to pick up new ideas which is 
typical of old age (I am actually in my early old age, being 56, but in my 
heart I feel young for ever), but also because there was not enough of an 
explanation and advice to be found on that issue (actually there was lots of 
conflicting advice to be found on the web!), or because I wasn't able to find 
sufficiently clear and reliable advice and explanation, or for completeness, 
was not able to find it sooner than I did... (have a look at how little or 
nothing there is at this time, again: at *this* time, at the time of my writing 
this, on namespace that is needed to apply in the Dovecot, to have proper 
Maildir++ for your mail and for your Mutt, how little or nothing about it yet, 
on the Mutt wiki!)... 

So...  the real mailing tools for standalone[,SOHO] hosts:

1) getmail to retrieve mail (*)
2) maildrop to sort it (**)
3) Dovecot to serve it (***)
4) sSMTP to send mail ()
5) Mutt of course (*)

 (*) fetchmail is old and doesn't compare in simplicity and effectiveness
 (**) so much simpler than procmail! very powerful!
 (***) very popular, not too difficult to configure for a case like mine
 () while I spent weeks on postfix, and I do have some understanding now of 
it: it is a great program!, I wasn't able to configure it for just smtp (no 
smtpd, I don't need that at this time), because some things are really hidden 
in very ample documentation and not easy to phathom... so much so that I went 
on a rampage of learning stunnel and particular configuration of 
/etc/default/saslauthd-root_postfix that needed to talk to 
/var/spool/postfix/var/run/saslauthd/mux socket or what not... and still didn't 
get things to work... And on the other hand I got this sSMTP program to work in 
a matter of hours...
 (*) Mutt is my last task, logically last: it works on top of, or needs, 
all the previous for all that it does. The (1) to (4) are its preconditions. 
Mutt is the last, and Mutt is my 

Re: Namespace with/without on dovecot server on/off and issues

2013-10-13 Thread miro
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Oct 06, 2013 at 07:34:36AM +0200, miro.ro...@croatiafidelis.hr wrote:
 I'm trying to reply to this thread, but I still haven't set up all
 the mail tools, so...


And that was the case for weeks! Do you know, folks, that you are guilty of
criminal offence of compelling old people like me to read your manuals, wikis,
howtos and things for longer than the inventors of the internet spent on this
newfangled virtual thingies!

Aargh, I think I finally got the first mail out with normal tools, meaning 
dovecot, mutt and ...the following took me so long that I could cry on your 
shoulder, kind reader!: ... and with sSMTP after I finally understood that 
postfix was an overkill for my needs, and that sSMTP was just fine, and that it 
must be within my intellectual reach after all the weeks of dedicated study of 
the agglomerate of mailing tools that I was to choose for my future life on the 
internet, with a little more chance for true privacy and freedom...

(Just in case: of course I was joking about you people compelling old people to 
study.)

I am so confident that things are working, and this will be my first (the test 
mail that I just successfully sent is not counted) mail in earnest, that is, 
without the help of the odious M$ Outlook or somesuch, which I stopped using at 
least five or more years ago, and even without the clever GUI tools like 
Thunderbird or Claws-Mail, which are so much better, but they don't compare 
with the power that Mutt and his friends Dovecot, Getmail, Maildrop and sSMTP 
can arm myself with... So confident that things work now, that I will go 
somewhat desparate and unstable if they don't yet again.

 http://marc.info/?l=mutt-usersm=138021971816188w=2
 
 I have made progress on this issue.
 For now, have a look at how I solved it, here:
 
 http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2013-October/092810.html
 
 and there's today's message, which is due anytime there.
 
 But not all is solved, and there are issues.

There are issues, and I intend to expand on them in the subsequent mail.

Let me just, after weeks of my personal research for an actually rather typical 
user case like mine (no real but only fantasy FQDN hostname, my case being SOHO 
doesn't subtract much to the typicality of my case), let my just emphasize my 
findings of what is the best to use for standalone (or part of SOHO) host, in 
general terms.

So people who are looking for real mailing life, and don't want to depend on 
fine GUI solution that are actually more complicated that the following, only 
under the hood, but that's exactly where you need to know things when real 
issues affect you in you life on the internet where you need free and 
unsurveilled moving and friendship to you wishes and not to some yucky 
stasibook, sorry I meant zucky Facebook or the likes...

So for real mailing tools, according to my real-life-needs research that I have 
now successfully completed the minimun indispensable for, and which research 
lasted pretty long because of my slowliness to pick up new ideas which is 
typical of old age (I am actually in my early old age, being 56, but in my 
heart I feel young for ever), but also because there was not enough of an 
explanation and advice to be found on that issue (actually there was lots of 
conflicting advice to be found on the web!), or because I wasn't able to find 
sufficiently clear and reliable advice and explanation, or for completeness, 
was not able to find it sooner than I did... (have a look at how little or 
nothing there is at this time, again: at *this* time, at the time of my writing 
this, on namespace that is needed to apply in the Dovecot, to have proper 
Maildir++ for your mail and for your Mutt, how little or nothing about it yet, 
on the Mutt wiki!)... 

So...  the real mailing tools for standalone[,SOHO] hosts:

1) getmail to retrieve mail (*)
2) maildrop to sort it (**)
3) Dovecot to serve it (***)
4) sSMTP to send mail ()
5) Mutt of course (*)

 (*) fetchmail is old and doesn't compare in simplicity and effectiveness
 (**) so much simpler than procmail! very powerful!
 (***) very popular, not too difficult to configure for a case like mine
 () while I spent weeks on postfix, and I do have some understanding now of 
it: it is a great program!, I wasn't able to configure it for just smtp (no 
smtpd, I don't need that at this time), because some things are really hidden 
in very ample documentation and not easy to phathom... so much so that I went 
on a rampage of learning stunnel and particular configuration of 
/etc/default/saslauthd-root_postfix that needed to talk to 
/var/spool/postfix/var/run/saslauthd/mux socket or what not... and still didn't 
get things to work... And on the other hand I got this sSMTP program to work in 
a matter of hours...
 (*) Mutt is my last task, logically last: it works on top of, or needs, 
all the previous for all that it does. The (1) to (4) are its 

Re: Namespace with/without on dovecot server on/off and issues

2013-10-13 Thread John Niendorf

Congratulations Miroslav,

Boy it sounds like you had a much more difficult time than I did.
I didn't know anything about Mutt a few months ago, but I was able to 
download Mutt-patched from the Ubuntu repository and get it going without 
too much fuss.
But then, I'm using Mutt to access my email account on a server at my 
hosting company.  It sounds like you set up EVERYTHING from scratch.


John

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 09:56:14PM +, miro wrote:

On Sun, Oct 06, 2013 at 07:34:36AM +0200, miro.ro...@croatiafidelis.hr wrote:

I'm trying to reply to this thread, but I still haven't set up all
the mail tools, so...



And that was the case for weeks! Do you know, folks, that you are guilty of
criminal offence of compelling old people like me to read your manuals, wikis,
howtos and things for longer than the inventors of the internet spent on this
newfangled virtual thingies!

Aargh, I think I finally got the first mail out with normal tools, meaning 
dovecot, mutt and ...the following took me so long that I could cry on your 
shoulder, kind reader!: ... and with sSMTP after I finally understood that 
postfix was an overkill for my needs, and that sSMTP was just fine, and that it 
must be within my intellectual reach after all the weeks of dedicated study of 
the agglomerate of mailing tools that I was to choose for my future life on the 
internet, with a little more chance for true privacy and freedom...

(Just in case: of course I was joking about you people compelling old people to 
study.)

I am so confident that things are working, and this will be my first (the test 
mail that I just successfully sent is not counted) mail in earnest, that is, 
without the help of the odious M$ Outlook or somesuch, which I stopped using at 
least five or more years ago, and even without the clever GUI tools like 
Thunderbird or Claws-Mail, which are so much better, but they don't compare 
with the power that Mutt and his friends Dovecot, Getmail, Maildrop and sSMTP 
can arm myself with... So confident that things work now, that I will go 
somewhat desparate and unstable if they don't yet again.


http://marc.info/?l=mutt-usersm=138021971816188w=2

I have made progress on this issue.
For now, have a look at how I solved it, here:

http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2013-October/092810.html

and there's today's message, which is due anytime there.

But not all is solved, and there are issues.


There are issues, and I intend to expand on them in the subsequent mail.

Let me just, after weeks of my personal research for an actually rather typical 
user case like mine (no real but only fantasy FQDN hostname, my case being SOHO 
doesn't subtract much to the typicality of my case), let my just emphasize my 
findings of what is the best to use for standalone (or part of SOHO) host, in 
general terms.

So people who are looking for real mailing life, and don't want to depend on 
fine GUI solution that are actually more complicated that the following, only 
under the hood, but that's exactly where you need to know things when real 
issues affect you in you life on the internet where you need free and 
unsurveilled moving and friendship to you wishes and not to some yucky 
stasibook, sorry I meant zucky Facebook or the likes...

So for real mailing tools, according to my real-life-needs research that I have 
now successfully completed the minimun indispensable for, and which research 
lasted pretty long because of my slowliness to pick up new ideas which is 
typical of old age (I am actually in my early old age, being 56, but in my 
heart I feel young for ever), but also because there was not enough of an 
explanation and advice to be found on that issue (actually there was lots of 
conflicting advice to be found on the web!), or because I wasn't able to find 
sufficiently clear and reliable advice and explanation, or for completeness, 
was not able to find it sooner than I did... (have a look at how little or 
nothing there is at this time, again: at *this* time, at the time of my writing 
this, on namespace that is needed to apply in the Dovecot, to have proper 
Maildir++ for your mail and for your Mutt, how little or nothing about it yet, 
on the Mutt wiki!)...

So...  the real mailing tools for standalone[,SOHO] hosts:

1) getmail to retrieve mail (*)
2) maildrop to sort it (**)
3) Dovecot to serve it (***)
4) sSMTP to send mail ()
5) Mutt of course (*)

(*) fetchmail is old and doesn't compare in simplicity and effectiveness
(**) so much simpler than procmail! very powerful!
(***) very popular, not too difficult to configure for a case like mine
() while I spent weeks on postfix, and I do have some understanding now of 
it: it is a great program!, I wasn't able to configure it for just smtp (no 
smtpd, I don't need that at this time), because some things are really hidden 
in very ample documentation and not easy to phathom... so much so that I went 
on a rampage of learning stunnel and particular