Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
On Thursday 12 January 2006 00:44, Ross Campbell wrote: The whole HD thing is really starting to stink. US government forcing adoption of HDTV due to all of the egg on their face because of the lack of interest around their non-open standard. US governemnt forced to subsidize TV upgrades for the masses so that we can get this superior TV that is being mandated by the government. Cost to taxpayers? 1.5 billion. New TV buyers dissatisfied by the lack of HD programming. Cable companies moving channels from basic cable or extended basic to digital cable just to force people to rent their underpowered cable boxes and pay more per month. Eventually there will be a CableCARD Jon and we'll be in an awkward position of having *hardware* that is legal to use under Windows and illegal to use under Linux! Then, I'm sure a new standard will be proposed and we'll need to buy new TVs all over again. When will this madness stop??? I think I'll stick with SDTV and use my government HDTV subsidy money to buy another hard drive. -Ross when people stop thinking they need the government and start realizing that in reality the government needs them. until then they will continue to let governments rule over their lives making foolish and just plain dumb decisions that if they don't abide by, men with guns come knocking on their door. -- Steve ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
Cable companies moving channels from basic cable or extended basic to digital cable just to force people to rent their underpowered cable boxes and pay more per month. Eventually there will be a CableCARD Jon and we'll be in an awkward position of having *hardware* that is legal to use under Windows and illegal to use under Linux! Not really, CableLabs have already proposed a new standard for the Cablecard standard, it's a time wasting scam but pushes back the limits imposed on them by the FCC. It was when I was briefed on this new standard that I decided to walk from the US cable tv market. I'll be back in 3 years when everything is being delivered via IP. For those of you that were at CES 2006 you'll have seen that this is coming both on a large scale and small scale implementations much faster than anyone thought. The cabletv industry as we know it in 2005 will be as dead as the telcos are today, not gone but on the endangered species list, with every day for them being measured as a good day. Cheers, Dean ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
On 1/10/06, Joe Votour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Oexner [EMAIL PROTECTED] says: Yeah, I was happy to learn that RCN Boston doesn't use 5C encryption. I'm happy to report that RCN San Francisco does not either. Once CableCARD 2.0 ships, what do y'all think are the odds of a PCI-slot expansion board that comes with one or two CableCARD slots, *regardless of Linux support*? I figure that having the hardware actually available (as opposed to slots only being available on new, presumably MCE-enabled, PCs) is more than 50% of getting MythTV support done, and if it takes binary, non-free drivers for Linux support--� la Nvidia or ATi--I don't mind as longas they work. -- Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] | +1 650 776 7763 | San Francisco CA US ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.orghttp://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-usersIt's hard to say whether or not there would be a PCI board.The only design that I've heard of withCableCARD (1.0) support was a Shuttle (I think)machine, and thus, it was built into the motherboard.Normally I'd say that some company would justmanufacture them unlicensed, but they'd be slapped with some sort of DMCA lawsuit, likely.Then I'd say,manufacture and sell them outside of the U.S., but I'mnot even sure if CableCARD has been proposed outsideof North America.(CableLabs is the CableCARD and DOCSIS specifications writer in the United States,Europe, although they have EuroDOCSIS, it is done by adifferent consortium of European cable operators).I'm predicting 0% chance of official CableCARD support in Linux.Unofficially, there might be binarydrivers, but I really doubt that.I'm pretty surethat Microsoft had to jump through hoops to getCableCARD support allowed in MCE (CableLabs is prettybad, I've worked for two companies that dealt with them), and anything that is seen as an open platformis just begging to get the big red rubber stamp ofdenial.To me, the bigger challenge is not necessarily whetheror not a PCI card could be reverse engineered (because it could, it just takes a talented person with theright equipment, even if they encrypt everything onthe bus), but what kind of data the CableCARD givesus.If the data that we get from the CableCARD is completely encrypted, then we'll be limited in thethings we can do with it (commercial flagging wouldlikely not be possible, since MythTV has to analyzethe contents of the stream).I would really like a legitmate CableCARD solution for Linux, but I want it to have the current featureset ofanalog cable.Wishful thinking, I know.-- Joe__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com___mythtv-users mailing listmythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-usersThe newest HDTivo uses cablecard. I think there is a chance of making it work in Linux. The more I keep looking at the state of HD television that they are trying to roll out the more I get the impression that they want to give us a much better picture in exchanged for us not continuing to time shift anymore. So we'll have resolution and detail for the 21st century and usability and flexibiltiy from the 1970's. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
--- Jason Werpy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/10/06, Joe Votour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Oexner [EMAIL PROTECTED] says: Yeah, I was happy to learn that RCN Boston doesn't use 5C encryption. I'm happy to report that RCN San Francisco does not either. Once CableCARD 2.0 ships, what do y'all think are the odds of a PCI-slot expansion board that comes with one or two CableCARD slots, *regardless of Linux support*? I figure that having the hardware actually available (as opposed to slots only being available on new, presumably MCE-enabled, PCs) is more than 50% of getting MythTV support done, and if it takes binary, non-free drivers for Linux support--� la Nvidia or ATi--I don't mind as long as they work. -- Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] | +1 650 776 7763 | San Francisco CA US ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users It's hard to say whether or not there would be a PCI board. The only design that I've heard of with CableCARD (1.0) support was a Shuttle (I think) machine, and thus, it was built into the motherboard. Normally I'd say that some company would just manufacture them unlicensed, but they'd be slapped with some sort of DMCA lawsuit, likely. Then I'd say, manufacture and sell them outside of the U.S., but I'm not even sure if CableCARD has been proposed outside of North America. (CableLabs is the CableCARD and DOCSIS specifications writer in the United States, Europe, although they have EuroDOCSIS, it is done by a different consortium of European cable operators). I'm predicting 0% chance of official CableCARD support in Linux. Unofficially, there might be binary drivers, but I really doubt that. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft had to jump through hoops to get CableCARD support allowed in MCE (CableLabs is pretty bad, I've worked for two companies that dealt with them), and anything that is seen as an open platform is just begging to get the big red rubber stamp of denial. To me, the bigger challenge is not necessarily whether or not a PCI card could be reverse engineered (because it could, it just takes a talented person with the right equipment, even if they encrypt everything on the bus), but what kind of data the CableCARD gives us. If the data that we get from the CableCARD is completely encrypted, then we'll be limited in the things we can do with it (commercial flagging would likely not be possible, since MythTV has to analyze the contents of the stream). I would really like a legitmate CableCARD solution for Linux, but I want it to have the current featureset of analog cable. Wishful thinking, I know. -- Joe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users The newest HDTivo uses cablecard. I think there is a chance of making it work in Linux. The more I keep looking at the state of HD television that they are trying to roll out the more I get the impression that they want to give us a much better picture in exchanged for us not continuing to time shift anymore. So we'll have resolution and detail for the 21st century and usability and flexibiltiy from the 1970's. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users I should have clarified my original statement - the only PC design I know of with CableCARD is the Shuttle one. I did hear of the HDTivo recently as well. There might be other PC CableCARD implementations, but I haven't followed the news on them because I have no interest in CableCARD at this point (the place where I live does their own analog cable). I have no doubt that it can be made to work under Linux - Tivo is likely (still) using Linux, and after reading the CableCARD (or was is OCAP? I don't remember) application documents, they have to make sure that this thing is literally an unhackable box. At least enough to make plausable deniability, so no PCI slots and everything embedded into one PCB with encryption and keeping the CableCARD driver non-GPL'd should satisfy CableLabs. A generic PC is much harder. Hollywood places too great a value on their content. The cable operators are in the middle. They (at least some of the ones I've dealt with indirectly) want to provide good service to the customer, but their hands are tied by the media companies. Things like ABC forcing the
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
On Wednesday 11 January 2006 12:21, Joe Votour wrote: --- Jason Werpy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/10/06, Joe Votour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Oexner [EMAIL PROTECTED] says: Yeah, I was happy to learn that RCN Boston doesn't use 5C encryption. I'm happy to report that RCN San Francisco does not either. Once CableCARD 2.0 ships, what do y'all think are the odds of a PCI-slot expansion board that comes with one or two CableCARD slots, *regardless of Linux support*? I figure that having the hardware actually available (as opposed to slots only being available on new, presumably MCE-enabled, PCs) is more than 50% of getting MythTV support done, and if it takes binary, non-free drivers for Linux support--� la Nvidia or ATi--I don't mind as long as they work. -- Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] | +1 650 776 7763 San Francisco CA US ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users It's hard to say whether or not there would be a PCI board. The only design that I've heard of with CableCARD (1.0) support was a Shuttle (I think) machine, and thus, it was built into the motherboard. Normally I'd say that some company would just manufacture them unlicensed, but they'd be slapped with some sort of DMCA lawsuit, likely. Then I'd say, manufacture and sell them outside of the U.S., but I'm not even sure if CableCARD has been proposed outside of North America. (CableLabs is the CableCARD and DOCSIS specifications writer in the United States, Europe, although they have EuroDOCSIS, it is done by a different consortium of European cable operators). I'm predicting 0% chance of official CableCARD support in Linux. Unofficially, there might be binary drivers, but I really doubt that. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft had to jump through hoops to get CableCARD support allowed in MCE (CableLabs is pretty bad, I've worked for two companies that dealt with them), and anything that is seen as an open platform is just begging to get the big red rubber stamp of denial. To me, the bigger challenge is not necessarily whether or not a PCI card could be reverse engineered (because it could, it just takes a talented person with the right equipment, even if they encrypt everything on the bus), but what kind of data the CableCARD gives us. If the data that we get from the CableCARD is completely encrypted, then we'll be limited in the things we can do with it (commercial flagging would likely not be possible, since MythTV has to analyze the contents of the stream). I would really like a legitmate CableCARD solution for Linux, but I want it to have the current featureset of analog cable. Wishful thinking, I know. -- Joe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users The newest HDTivo uses cablecard. I think there is a chance of making it work in Linux. The more I keep looking at the state of HD television that they are trying to roll out the more I get the impression that they want to give us a much better picture in exchanged for us not continuing to time shift anymore. So we'll have resolution and detail for the 21st century and usability and flexibiltiy from the 1970's. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users I should have clarified my original statement - the only PC design I know of with CableCARD is the Shuttle one. I did hear of the HDTivo recently as well. There might be other PC CableCARD implementations, but I haven't followed the news on them because I have no interest in CableCARD at this point (the place where I live does their own analog cable). I have no doubt that it can be made to work under Linux - Tivo is likely (still) using Linux, and after reading the CableCARD (or was is OCAP? I don't remember) application documents, they have to make sure that this thing is literally an unhackable box. At least enough to make plausable deniability, so no PCI slots and everything embedded into one PCB with encryption and keeping the CableCARD driver non-GPL'd should satisfy CableLabs. A generic PC is much harder.
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
--- H P Ladds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cable companies will wind up killing shooting themselves in the foot if they're not careful. IPTV over DSL using MPEG-4 is steadily catching up. Will IPTV help us? The consortium of content producers (CableLabs) will still demand that the content be encrypted. Linux and Open Source need not apply for approval? Still, I'm with you, someone shot has themselves in the foot. The content producers just handed control of a large portion of their distribution channel to Microsoft -- I wish them the best of luck in trying to get it back. snip You've got the purpose of CableLabs confused. When they're not accepting kickbacks, charging a fortune for product certification, and constantly changing their specifications without incrementing version numbers, they are supposed to be the unified voice of the cable operators. They have nothing to do with the content producers. IPTV is not subject to CableLabs approval, at least not in it's current incarnation. In fact, nothing is really subject to CableLabs approval (see the number of uncertified DOCSIS 1.0 cable modems about five years ago), but if you don't get your products CableLabs certified, then you likely won't be allowed to bid on contracts put forth by the cable operators. (Yes, I dislike CableLabs, and I don't hide it. In my view, they really are an incompetent and corrupt organization.) That said, open source hardware or software will never get CableLabs approval. CableLabs reserves the right to revoke encryption keys on devices if they are compromised (and I'm surprised they didn't revoke Motorola's keys when a bunch of their modems were cracked - but, Motorola is one of the key players in CableLabs). CableLabs is now much more open than it used to be - previously the submission documents required membership to view, but they are now freely available on the CableLabs website. These documents show some of the requirements for security that CableCARD will have to meet: http://www.opencable.com/downloads/Host_2.0_DCAA.pdf http://www.opencable.com/downloads/CHILA.pdf From the second document: As to each of the Host Devices made under this Agreement, Licensee covenants to CableLabs as follows: (i) The Host Device, at the time manufactured, contains no integrated circuit, ROM, RAM, software or other device or functionality that: (1) enables copying or recording of Controlled Content, other than as permitted by the Compliance Rules or (2) interferes with or disables the ability of a Cable Operator to communicate with or disable a CableCARD or services being transmitted through a CableCARD. (ii) At the time of manufacture, it will maintain control of content copies consistent with copy control instructions or the encryption mode indicator bits transmitted with digital signals as specified in the OpenCable Specifications. (iii) At the time of manufacture, it is designed to effectively frustrate tampering and reverse engineering directed towards defeating copy protection requirements in accordance with the Robustness Rules. (iv) At the time of manufacture, it will not transmit or decode Controlled Content received from the cable television transmission without proper authorization from the Cable Operator. (v) As used in this section 9.2(c), âat the time of manufactureâ shall mean at the time of manufacture of the Host Device and shall also include, but is not limited to, any subsequent modifications, upgrades, downloads, modules, plug-ins, or attachments to such Host Device made by or at the direction of Licensee or its Affiliates, or otherwise specifically promoted, marketed, distributed by or at the direction of Licensee or its Affiliates. (vi) Licensee shall not service any licensed product that it determines to have been modified after manufacture to be non-Compliant. End of CableLabs document So, in short, Open Source will get the big red DENIED stamp on CableCARD. Our only hope is reverse engineering outside of North America where the patents and DMCA don't apply. -- Joe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
Would it read DENIED and thank you for your $100,000.00 application fee? Or is that a bogus tale I heard about the cost of application. On 1/11/06, Joe Votour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- H P Ladds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cable companies will wind up killing shooting themselves in the foot if they're not careful. IPTV over DSL using MPEG-4 is steadily catching up. Will IPTV help us? The consortium of content producers (CableLabs) will still demand that the content be encrypted. Linux and Open Source need not apply for approval? Still, I'm with you, someone shot has themselves in the foot. The content producers just handed control of a large portion of their distribution channel to Microsoft -- I wish them the best of luck in trying to get it back. snip You've got the purpose of CableLabs confused. When they're not accepting kickbacks, charging a fortune for product certification, and constantly changing their specifications without incrementing version numbers, they are supposed to be the unified voice of the cable operators. They have nothing to do with the content producers. IPTV is not subject to CableLabs approval, at least not in it's current incarnation. In fact, nothing is really subject to CableLabs approval (see the number of uncertified DOCSIS 1.0 cable modems about five years ago), but if you don't get your products CableLabs certified, then you likely won't be allowed to bid on contracts put forth by the cable operators. (Yes, I dislike CableLabs, and I don't hide it. In my view, they really are an incompetent and corrupt organization.) That said, open source hardware or software will never get CableLabs approval. CableLabs reserves the right to revoke encryption keys on devices if they are compromised (and I'm surprised they didn't revoke Motorola's keys when a bunch of their modems were cracked - but, Motorola is one of the key players in CableLabs). CableLabs is now much more open than it used to be - previously the submission documents required membership to view, but they are now freely available on the CableLabs website. These documents show some of the requirements for security that CableCARD will have to meet: http://www.opencable.com/downloads/Host_2.0_DCAA.pdf http://www.opencable.com/downloads/CHILA.pdf From the second document: As to each of the Host Devices made under this Agreement, Licensee covenants to CableLabs as follows: (i) The Host Device, at the time manufactured, contains no integrated circuit, ROM, RAM, software or other device or functionality that: (1) enables copying or recording of Controlled Content, other than as permitted by the Compliance Rules or (2) interferes with or disables the ability of a Cable Operator to communicate with or disable a CableCARD or services being transmitted through a CableCARD. (ii) At the time of manufacture, it will maintain control of content copies consistent with copy control instructions or the encryption mode indicator bits transmitted with digital signals as specified in the OpenCable Specifications. (iii) At the time of manufacture, it is designed to effectively frustrate tampering and reverse engineering directed towards defeating copy protection requirements in accordance with the Robustness Rules. (iv) At the time of manufacture, it will not transmit or decode Controlled Content received from the cable television transmission without proper authorization from the Cable Operator. (v) As used in this section 9.2(c), at the time of manufacture shall mean at the time of manufacture of the Host Device and shall also include, but is not limited to, any subsequent modifications, upgrades, downloads, modules, plug-ins, or attachments to such Host Device made by or at the direction of Licensee or its Affiliates, or otherwise specifically promoted, marketed, distributed by or at the direction of Licensee or its Affiliates. (vi) Licensee shall not service any licensed product that it determines to have been modified after manufacture to be non-Compliant. End of CableLabs document So, in short, Open Source will get the big red DENIED stamp on CableCARD. Our only hope is reverse engineering outside of North America where the patents and DMCA don't apply. -- Joe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
--- H P Ladds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it read DENIED and thank you for your $100,000.00 application fee? Or is that a bogus tale I heard about the cost of application. On 1/11/06, Joe Votour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- H P Ladds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cable companies will wind up killing shooting themselves in the foot if they're not careful. IPTV over DSL using MPEG-4 is steadily catching up. Will IPTV help us? The consortium of content producers (CableLabs) will still demand that the content be encrypted. Linux and Open Source need not apply for approval? Still, I'm with you, someone shot has themselves in the foot. The content producers just handed control of a large portion of their distribution channel to Microsoft -- I wish them the best of luck in trying to get it back. snip snip Most likely. I don't know what the fees are for CableCARD (I couldn't find them in the price list), but I would guess somewhere between $50,000 to $100,000 based on the other prices (which have come down from previous years). Check out the application fees yourself (no CableCARD): http://www.cablemodem.com/downloads/2006Pricing.pdf -- Joe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
The whole HD thing is really starting to stink. US government forcing adoption of HDTV due to all of the egg on their face because of the lack of interest around their non-open standard. US governemnt forced to subsidize TV upgrades for the masses so that we can get this superior TV that is being mandated by the government. Cost to taxpayers? 1.5 billion. New TV buyers dissatisfied by the lack of HD programming. Cable companies moving channels from basic cable or extended basic to digital cable just to force people to rent their underpowered cable boxes and pay more per month. Eventually there will be a CableCARD Jon and we'll be in an awkward position of having *hardware* that is legal to use under Windows and illegal to use under Linux! Then, I'm sure a new standard will be proposed and we'll need to buy new TVs all over again. When will this madness stop??? I think I'll stick with SDTV and use my government HDTV subsidy money to buy another hard drive. -Ross ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
On 1/10/06, Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Oexner [EMAIL PROTECTED] says: Yeah, I was happy to learn that RCN Boston doesn't use 5C encryption. I'm happy to report that RCN San Francisco does not either. Once CableCARD 2.0 ships, what do y'all think are the odds of a PCI-slot expansion board that comes with one or two CableCARD slots, *regardless of Linux support*? I figure that having the hardware actually available (as opposed to slots only being available on new, presumably MCE-enabled, PCs) is more than 50% of getting MythTV support done, and if it takes binary, non-free drivers for Linux support--à la Nvidia or ATi--I don't mind as long as they work. -- Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] | +1 650 776 7763 | San Francisco CA US ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users There was a thread a few days about about a USB device ATI showed off at CES which had a cablecard slot. For Windows MCE though. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
--- Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Oexner [EMAIL PROTECTED] says: Yeah, I was happy to learn that RCN Boston doesn't use 5C encryption. I'm happy to report that RCN San Francisco does not either. Once CableCARD 2.0 ships, what do y'all think are the odds of a PCI-slot expansion board that comes with one or two CableCARD slots, *regardless of Linux support*? I figure that having the hardware actually available (as opposed to slots only being available on new, presumably MCE-enabled, PCs) is more than 50% of getting MythTV support done, and if it takes binary, non-free drivers for Linux support--� la Nvidia or ATi--I don't mind as long as they work. -- Yeechang Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] | +1 650 776 7763 | San Francisco CA US ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users It's hard to say whether or not there would be a PCI board. The only design that I've heard of with CableCARD (1.0) support was a Shuttle (I think) machine, and thus, it was built into the motherboard. Normally I'd say that some company would just manufacture them unlicensed, but they'd be slapped with some sort of DMCA lawsuit, likely. Then I'd say, manufacture and sell them outside of the U.S., but I'm not even sure if CableCARD has been proposed outside of North America. (CableLabs is the CableCARD and DOCSIS specifications writer in the United States, Europe, although they have EuroDOCSIS, it is done by a different consortium of European cable operators). I'm predicting 0% chance of official CableCARD support in Linux. Unofficially, there might be binary drivers, but I really doubt that. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft had to jump through hoops to get CableCARD support allowed in MCE (CableLabs is pretty bad, I've worked for two companies that dealt with them), and anything that is seen as an open platform is just begging to get the big red rubber stamp of denial. To me, the bigger challenge is not necessarily whether or not a PCI card could be reverse engineered (because it could, it just takes a talented person with the right equipment, even if they encrypt everything on the bus), but what kind of data the CableCARD gives us. If the data that we get from the CableCARD is completely encrypted, then we'll be limited in the things we can do with it (commercial flagging would likely not be possible, since MythTV has to analyze the contents of the stream). I would really like a legitmate CableCARD solution for Linux, but I want it to have the current featureset of analog cable. Wishful thinking, I know. -- Joe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
