this has been, to me, one of the most fascinating nanog threads in years.
at the moment my own datacenter problem is filtration. isc lives in a place
where outside air is quite cool enough for server inlet seven or more months
out of the year. we've also got quite high ceilings. a 2HP roof
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:34:58PM +, Paul Vixie wrote:
i only use or recommend operating systems that have their own host based
firewalls.
That was exactly my problem.
Barney Wolff wrote:
What finally broke was doing a table list, possibly because the
command prints in sorted order.
what kind of automation can i deploy that will
precipitate the particulates so that air can move (for
cooling) and so that air won't bring grit (which is conductive)?
Have you considered a two-step process using water in the first
step to remove particulates (water spray perhaps?) and then
This thread begs a question - how much do you think it'd be worth to do
things more efficiently?
Adrian
$5
Adrian Chadd wrote:
This thread begs a question - how much do you think it'd be worth to do
things more efficiently?
Adrian
I still think the industry needs to standardise water cooling to popularise
it; if there were two water ports on all the pizzaboxes next to the RJ45s,
and a standard set of flexible pipes, how many people would start using it?
There's probably a medical, automotive or aerospace standard out there.
Hi Mike,
Depending upon the type of DDOS, there are five things you should do in order:
1. immediate response: set your host based security to mitigate the attack.
E.g. mod_security for Apache web server, IPTables for host firewall. This will
keep the hard drives from filling up, the cpu
That would be pretty good. But seeing some of the disastrous cabling
situations it'd have to be made pretty idiot proof.
Nice double sealed idiot proof piping with self-sealing ends..
--
Leigh
--
Leigh
Alexander Harrowell wrote:
I still think the industry needs to standardise water cooling
A valve in the connector; has to be pushed in by the other connector to let
the water flow. Water pressure pushes it shut otherwise so it fails-safe.
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Leigh Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
That would be pretty good. But seeing some of the disastrous cabling
It would sure be nice if along with choosing to order servers with DC or AC
power inputs one could choose air or water cooling.
Or perhaps some non-conductive working fluid instead of water. That might
not carry quite as much heat as water, but it would surely carry more than
air and if chosen
Once upon a time, Dorn Hetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Of course, my chemistry is a little rusty, so I'm not sure about the
prospects for a non-toxic, non-flammable, non-conductive substance with
workable fluid flow and heat transfer properties :)
Fluorinert - it worked (more or less) for the
Paul,
Using a multi-stage filter system with the large partical filters in front and
an ionizing stage to remove smaller but still large enough particals to cause
dust. Clean room filters would be an overkill.
John (ISDN) Lee
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:13:25 -0400
Rodrick Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They're a few companies that specialize in DDOS protection type
services one company that comes to mind is Prolexic and their IPN
infrastructure protection service. Prolexic will basically absorbs all
attacks filter
Matthew Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Seal off the room so you can control your replacement air source. Put a
series of cyclone dust collectors (think huge Dyson Vacuum) on your inbound
air.
http://www.proventilation.com/products/ProductsView.asp?page=1gclid=CKyD04SRqJICFQUilgod-isIRg
On 25 Mar 2008, at 09:11 , Dorn Hetzel wrote:
It would sure be nice if along with choosing to order servers with
DC or AC power inputs one could choose air or water cooling.
Or perhaps some non-conductive working fluid instead of water. That
might not carry quite as much heat as water,
Dorn Hetzel wrote:
Of course, my chemistry is a little rusty, so I'm not sure about the
prospects for a non-toxic, non-flammable, non-conductive substance with
workable fluid flow and heat transfer properties :)
Mineral oil? I'm not sure about the non-flammable part though. Not all
oils
While it has the potential to catch fire - it does however work fine in my
car engine.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Justin Shore
Sent: 25 March 2008 14:20
To: Dorn Hetzel
Cc: nanog list
Subject: Re: rack power question
Dorn Hetzel
Joe Abley wrote:
On 25 Mar 2008, at 09:11 , Dorn Hetzel wrote:
It would sure be nice if along with choosing to order servers with DC
or AC power inputs one could choose air or water cooling.
Or perhaps some non-conductive working fluid instead of water. That
might not carry quite as
Well, seeing as that most pad mounted transformers use mineral oil as a
heat transfer agent (in applications up to and exceeding 230kv), I don't
suspect it is of issue.
However, we've all seen nice transformer fires.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL
Russia (or the USSR at that time) used to use liquid graphite to cool their
nuclear reactors, even thought it was flammable of course that was what
they were using in Chernobyl.
--
Brian Raaen
Network Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tuesday 25 March 2008, you wrote:
Dorn Hetzel wrote:
Question: what worries you more, fire or leaks?
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Ben Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
While it has the potential to catch fire - it does however work fine in my
car engine.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
I think the modern equivalent is HFE, manufactured by 3M; HFE-7100 is
commonly used in the ATE industry for liquid cooling of test heads. It
is designed for very low temperatures (-135degC to 61degC) so it might
not be suitable for general datacenter use. HFE-7500 looks like a
better fit.
On Mar 25, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Brian Raaen wrote:
Russia (or the USSR at that time) used to use liquid graphite to
cool their
nuclear reactors, even thought it was flammable of course that
was what
they were using in Chernobyl.
The RBMK-1000 used graphite for moderation and water
Dorn Hetzel wrote:
Of course, my chemistry is a little rusty, so I'm not sure about the
prospects for a non-toxic, non-flammable, non-conductive substance
with workable fluid flow and heat transfer properties :)
For some of us over-the-edge pc enthusiasts, we use a non-conductive heat
transfer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adrian Chadd) writes:
This thread begs a question - how much do you think it'd be worth to do
things more efficiently?
this is a strict business decision involving sustainability and TCO. if it
takes one watt of mechanical to transfer heat away from every watt delivered,
Or perhaps some non-conductive working fluid instead of water.
That might not carry quite as much heat as water, but it would surely
carry more than air and if chosen correctly would have more benign
results
when the inevitable leaks and spills occur.
HCFC-123 is likely what
On 3/25/08, Peter Dambier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
proc2pl might get you ideas, from the ISAON tools on
You know, for the last year or two I've heard you go on and on about IASON.
A few months ago I actually did download it and the only thing I can find in
it is an assortment of scripts to
Brian Raaen wrote:
Russia (or the USSR at that time) used to use liquid graphite to cool their
nuclear reactors, even thought it was flammable of course that was what
they were using in Chernobyl.
This has diverged far enough that it's now off the topic of cooling. The
melting point
forwarded with permission.
From: Bob Bradlee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Paul Vixie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:16:17 -0400
X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.20.2717) For Windows 2000 (5.1.2600;2)
Subject: Re: rack power question
On 25 Mar 2008 06:17:15 +, Paul Vixie
Joel Jaeggli wrote:
Brian Raaen wrote:
Russia (or the USSR at that time) used to use liquid graphite to cool
their nuclear reactors, even thought it was flammable of course
that was what they were using in Chernobyl.
This has diverged far enough that it's now off the topic of cooling.
i am vexed at the moment by the filtration costs.
What is it that is clogging your filters? Dust? Pollen? Small animals??
We're in a similar situation to you, though even
better as we're blessed by even cooler ambients
and never see 100°F, or even close to it. So
we're using make-up air
We'll need non-returns in there as well, to limit the maximum possible
spillage. More seriously, the energy-efficiency community has a whole design
approach for industrial facilities called Factor 10 Engineering which is
about saving heat or cooling by using the shortest, straightest, fattest
There are vendors working on this, but the point here is that unlike the
medical, automotive or aerospace industries Computing (in general)
platforms aren't regulated the same way... you won't see random gear
hanging off the inside of an MRI (in general), or in an airplane, etc.
Mineral oil? I'm not sure about the non-flammable part though. Not
all oils burn but I'm not sure if mineral oil is one of them. It is
used for immersion cooling though.
It burns quite well ..
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/transformer-explosion/1599831229
Cheers,
Michael Holstein
Paul Vixie wrote:
this is a strict business decision involving sustainability and TCO. if it
takes one watt of mechanical to transfer heat away from every watt delivered,
whereas ambient air with good-enough filtration will let one watt of roof fan
transfer the heat away from five delivered
Have you made any calculations if geo-cooling makes sense in your region to
fill in the hottest summer months or is drilling just too expensive for the
return?
i'm too close to san francisco bay.
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Paul Vixie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have you made any calculations if geo-cooling makes sense in your region to
fill in the hottest summer months or is drilling just too expensive for the
return?
i'm too close to san francisco bay.
Paul,
Why is that
i'm too close to san francisco bay.
Why is that bad? I thought ground-source HVAC systems worked better if
the ground was saturated with water. Better thermal conductivity than
dry soil.
aside from the corrosive nature of the salt and other minerals, there is an
unbelievable maze of
At 09:44 PM 3/25/2008, you wrote:
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Chris Grundemann
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greg has laid out a great bit of information and I would like to add just
one possibility to the list of budget 10GE routers: Vyatta. According to a
recent press release from that
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