Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

My Mom kicks all you's buttocks. Got a Radio Shack franchise in 1983, we kids got in on the ground floor of personal computing (on Color Computers and TRS-80's). She does tech support for others her age. Or did, in Colorado in a community for older folks, and is now in Costa Rica figuring out

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

On Tue, Feb 13, 2007 at 05:12:05AM +, Paul Vixie wrote: > > warning-- this thread is so far off topic, i can't even REMEMBER a topic > that it might once have had. hit D now. >  > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Barry Shein) writes: > > > ... If your goal is invasion then value preservation is impor

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

At 5:12 + 2/13/07, Paul Vixie wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Barry Shein) writes: ... If your goal is invasion then value preservation is important (factories, bridges, civilian infrastructure, etc.) ... so if the last remaining superpower were to bomb a country in the middle east in prepar

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

On Tue, Feb 13, 2007 at 05:12:05AM +, Paul Vixie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote a message of 17 lines which said: > so if the last remaining superpower were to bomb a country in the > middle east in preparation for invasion, regime change, etc., that > superpower would be well advised to avoid

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

warning-- this thread is so far off topic, i can't even REMEMBER a topic that it might once have had. hit D now.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Barry Shein) writes: > ... If your goal is invasion then value preservation is important > (factories, bridges, civilian infrastructure, etc.) ... so if the las

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

Alexander Harrowell wrote: Causality? WW2=>nukes, cold war=>arpanet=>internet, surely? Heh. We're that > < close to invoking Godwin's Law here. :-) On 2/12/07, *micky coughes* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: Hmm, let's see. Nukes => cold war => arpanet =

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

>>> On 2/12/2007 at 3:13 PM, "Alexander Harrowell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Causality? WW2=>nukes, cold war=>arpanet=>internet, surely? Hitler=>WW2=>... Godwin! Please? Anyway, we all know Al Gore invented the Internet. > On 2/12/07, micky coughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> Hmm,

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

Come on guys... Some more originality please... Internet--->Al-Qaeda fundraising>Afghanistan--->USSR vs. US>Cold war> Arpanet---> Internet. Vicious cycle. -mike On 2/12/07, Alexander Harrowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Causality? WW2=>nukes, cold war=>arpanet=>internet, surely?

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

Causality? WW2=>nukes, cold war=>arpanet=>internet, surely? On 2/12/07, micky coughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hmm, let's see. Nukes => cold war => arpanet => internet Yup, looks ok. On 2/12/07, Olsen, Jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Of course, but the point was the goal of that ta

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 12:50:20PM +0100, Per Heldal wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 10:13 +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > Sure, just find these few simple things that will actually improve > > security. (My personal one would be "Erase MS-Windows and install > > Ubuntu". If we are ready t

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

Hmm, let's see. Nukes => cold war => arpanet => internet Yup, looks ok. On 2/12/07, Olsen, Jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Of course, but the point was the goal of that targetting. The > US public by and large believed, and seems to still believe [snip] > If anniliation is the goal

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:12:56 -0500 Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Of course, but the point was the goal of that targetting. The US > public by and large believed, and seems to still believe (i.e., the TV > show Jericho) that the goal of a USSR attack was purely vindictive, > complete

Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

> Of course, but the point was the goal of that targetting. The > US public by and large believed, and seems to still believe [snip] > If anniliation is the goal than it's of no importance, just > bomb the densest population centers. To borrow from snarky comments past: Unless Vendor C

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

Of course, but the point was the goal of that targetting. The US public by and large believed, and seems to still believe (i.e., the TV show Jericho) that the goal of a USSR attack was purely vindictive, complete annhilation. Apparently Civil Defense leaned more towards invasion as a goal. No do

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:05:45 -0500 Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In the late 60s I remember having an interesting conversation with > someone who did this kind of strategizing for the Dept of Civil > Defense. > > His scenarios were markedly diferent from the "urban folklore" you'd >

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

On February 12, 2007 at 04:28 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Bonomi) wrote: Mostly the same as what I said, but one important difference: duck and cover was a response to seeing the flash (only seconds), not to sirens going off (minutes) which was generally get your coat and go into the hallway and c

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

> > During the cold war American kids > > were trained to hide beneath their desktops in caseof a nuclear > > attack. Much good that would have done. ... >I don't pretend to know the real reason but keeping control is usually >better even if you can't change the outcome. The goal was some pr

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:38:10 -0500 > From: "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:51:38 -0600 > Dave Pooser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Marshall beat me to it. I have a T-shirt that says "Mac: So > > simple my parents can use it." It's funny because it's true. > > Why do I keep

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:51:38 -0600 Dave Pooser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Marshall beat me to it. I have a T-shirt that says "Mac: So simple my > parents can use it." It's funny because it's true. Why do I keep hearing "My parents are stupid" in these sorts of comments? Just wait. They get sm

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 03:23:26 -0600 (CST) Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same argument > was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother is she uses > linux? Yes. Well, not your mother (unless she paid me) but I used

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

>> Name anyone techie who doesn't have to do tech support for their >> mother on MS Windows.. > The ones whose Mom's got Macs, of course. (Well, in my case it's my > Mother-in-Law, but the > tech support required has dramatically reduced.) Marshall beat me to it. I have a T-shirt that says "Mac:

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

My two (and a half) cents. 1. Systems that need a firewall, antivirus and antispyware software added on to survive for more than a few minutes SHOULD NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET IN THE FIRST PLACE. They're simply not good enough. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. (nod to Mr. Conn

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Feb 12, 2007, at 4:31 AM, Alexander Harrowell wrote: On 2/12/07, Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same argument was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother is she uses linux? Gadi. Name anyone tech

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 10:13 +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > Sure, just find these few simple things that will actually improve > security. (My personal one would be "Erase MS-Windows and install > Ubuntu". If we are ready to inconvenience ordinary workers with > computer security, this one wou

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:05:08 GMT > From: Brandon Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: nanog@merit.edu > Subject: Re: Every incident is an opportunity > > > > During the cold war American kids > > > were trained to hide beneath their desktops in c

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Alexander Harrowell wrote: > On 2/12/07, Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same argument > > was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother is she uses > > linux? > > > > Gadi. > >

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 09:31:21AM +, Alexander Harrowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote a message of 28 lines which said: > Name anyone techie who doesn't have to do tech support for their > mother on MS Windows.. Political fix: and their father, too :-)

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On 2/12/07, Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same argument was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother is she uses linux? Gadi. Name anyone techie who doesn't have to do tech support for their mother on

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 03:23:26AM -0600, Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote a message of 25 lines which said: > As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same > argument was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother > is she uses linux? I already do it. With

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 01:45:41AM -0500, > Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > a message of 16 lines which said: > > > The important lesson is you can educate people. The content may have > > been bogus, > > > If you can come up wi

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 01:45:41AM -0500, Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote a message of 16 lines which said: > The important lesson is you can educate people. The content may have > been bogus, Right on spot: it is easy to "educate" people with simple and meaningless advices such as "In

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

> > During the cold war American kids > > were trained to hide beneath their desktops in caseof a nuclear > > attack. Much good that would have done. It could have kept them from running around the streets screaming we're all going to die. It may well save people if they are on the edge of the s

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Sean Donelan wrote: > > On Sun, 11 Feb 2007, Gadi Evron wrote: > > Colin Powell mentioned at RSA in his extremely good, entertaining and > > pointless talk something of relevance. During the cold war American kids > > were trained to hide beneath their desktops in caseof a nu

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007, Gadi Evron wrote: Colin Powell mentioned at RSA in his extremely good, entertaining and pointless talk something of relevance. During the cold war American kids were trained to hide beneath their desktops in caseof a nuclear attack. Much good that would have done. The impo

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet

> > > ... don't believe everything you read on the net. > > > > you had me right up until that last part, which is completely unreasonable. > > I think it's not only reasonable, but is the only sane way to approach > content on the net. Why do you feel it's unreasonable? Or are you being > sar

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet

On 11 Feb 2007, Paul Vixie wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sean Donelan) writes: > > > ... don't believe everything you read on the net. > > you had me right up until that last part, which is completely unreasonable. I think it's not only reasonable, but is the only sane way to approach conten

RE: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

TECTED] On Behalf Of Steven M. Bellovin Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:49 PM To: Dave Pooser Cc: nanog Subject: Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers) On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:49:30 -0600 Dave Pooser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > &

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sean Donelan) writes: > ... don't believe everything you read on the net. you had me right up until that last part, which is completely unreasonable. -- Paul Vixie

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:49:30 -0600 Dave Pooser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > He was both right and wrong -- patches do break a lot of stuff. He > > was facing two problems: the probability of being off the air > > because of an attack versus the probability of being off the air > > because o

RE: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007, Sean Donelan wrote: > > On Sat, 10 Feb 2007, Stasiniewicz, Adam wrote: > > Sean makes a good point, but there is one small problem with his > > suggestions. He is preaching to the choir. > > Just trying to get the choir to sing on key. Of course, I know the choir > will pr

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007, Sean Donelan wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Roy wrote: > > Its amazing how reporters has to butcher technology information to make it > > understood by their editors > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/internet/02/06/internet.attacks.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories > > D

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

> He was both right and wrong -- patches do break a lot of stuff. He was > facing two problems: the probability of being off the air because of an > attack versus the probability of being off the air because of bad > interactions between patches and applications. Which is a bigger risk? That's

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 23:36:32 -0600 "Stasiniewicz, Adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Another time I was do some consulting work for a NPO. I was going > over the findings of my audit and I told the IT manager that all of > his machines were missing patches. His response: "we only install > ser

RE: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007, Stasiniewicz, Adam wrote: Sean makes a good point, but there is one small problem with his suggestions. He is preaching to the choir. Just trying to get the choir to sing on key. Of course, I know the choir will probably spin off singing 18 different songs. Local intere

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007, Alexander Harrowell wrote: > 5. Paying for AV software is not a solution, no matter how often it's been > on TV. (Norton - the antivirus software one finds on virus-infected > computers) Don't forget the trojan payload lately that used a cracked copy of Kaspersky AntiVirus

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

3. Even if your computer is secure, miscreants depend on your trust. Be suspicious of messages, files, software; even if it appears to come from a person or company you trust. Anti-spam, anti-spyware, anit-virus, anti-phishing tools can help. But don't assume because you are using them,

RE: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

February 10, 2007 10:41 PM To: nanog Subject: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers) On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Roy wrote: > Its amazing how reporters has to butcher technology information to make it > understood by their editors > > http:/

Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Roy wrote: Its amazing how reporters has to butcher technology information to make it understood by their editors http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/internet/02/06/internet.attacks.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories Do we keep missing opportunities? Yes, it was a minor incident