Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

> Any idiot terrorist can walk up to a CO or colo and find the entrance > facilities (facility in more cases) and walk down the block looking for > manhole covers with company names or logo's. They would have to be idiots to waste there time hunting for buried telecom lines when they could blow

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

> National Diversity Assurance Initiative. The financial services industry participates in many organizations such as BITS and the Financial Services Roudtable. A couple of extracts from some slides in a BITS presentation slide--- Since 9/11, the financial services industry and government ha

RE: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

You mean, like, a drone army of botnet zombies? ;-) - ferg -- "Bevan Slattery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You're comments are spot on. There are far more simpler, destructive, portable, scalable and inexpensive ways to achieve the same end. Any fibre provider knows what they are and hopes th

RE: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Golding > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > If I was a terrorist, I'd rather try to take out points of fiber concentration, and my tool would not be a backhoe. I

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

> > > It seems a terrorist would benefit from obtaining fiber map > information from the source, rather than googling for outages, and > trying to find needles in haystacks. How well are the internal If they have the skill to immobilize communications it's likely they don't need the map

RE: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

lace Keith Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? > > > I for one have spoken in the past in favor of making the FCC Outage Reports public again. If you want to deliberatley destroy fiber infrastructure, you can gain more knowledge quicker by stepping outs

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

> > > I for one have spoken in the past in favor of making the FCC Outage > Reports public again. If you want to deliberatley destroy fiber > infrastructure, you can gain more knowledge quicker by stepping outside your > door and gazing upon clearly marked routes, than by reading outage

RE: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

ED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? What data went into the system would depend on what questions you were looking to answer. I spend most of my time looking at the geographic diversity of fiber rout

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

Sucks, don;t it? Context, indeed. :-) It is a maxim that is almost intolerable these days, no? No. The more people are inclined to shut-down services which make the Internet 'the Internet', the less usable it is. This whole situation needs a new approach -- the traditional approach has failed,

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

On January 21, 2006 at 01:35 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fergie) wrote: > > I still believe in Jon Postel's maxim -- "Be conservative in what > you send, and liberal in what you recieve." > And one can sum up spammers' and similar miscreants' behavior as being precisely the opposite of that. --

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

Out of curiosity, how successful has that been? Any stats to be had here? - ferg -- Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In any case, you can look at the National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) which includes members from several industries.

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Frank Coluccio wrote: > Which standards body are you referring to that has such a working group? I guess forwarding private messages to public lists should be expected. In any case, you can look at the National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) which inc

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

I still believe in Jon Postel's maxim -- "Be conservative in what you send, and liberal in what you recieve." And before the wolves jump into the fray, one should underatnd the context. - ferg -- Frank Coluccio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>Trust is a very nebulous concept.<< And mistrust is

The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

>>Trust is a very nebulous concept.<< And mistrust is a far less nebulous concept, obviously. It seems to me that you will dispel just about anything I present in this regard. Do you trust banks that hold your escrow funds during home purchasing? How does Iron Mountain gain the trust of its ente

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

- From: Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:44 pm Subject: Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ] > > On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Frank Coluccio wrote: > > To answer Sean Donelan's question, yes,

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

- From: Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:44 pm Subject: Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ] > > On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Frank Coluccio wrote: > > To answer Sean Donelan's question, yes, enterprise customers &g

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Frank Coluccio wrote: > To answer Sean Donelan's question, yes, enterprise customers and/or their > agents > _do _need to have specific information on the routes in which their leased > facilities (and even dark fiber builds) are placed, ephemeral as those data > might > be

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

at of course is my angle on the game. - Original Message - From: Frank Coluccio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:53 pm Subject: Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? > > >My argument simply is if this kind of awareness > > >can be made more broa

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

>My argument simply is if this kind of awareness >can be made more broadly available you end up with >a more resilient infrastructure overall. Sean, would you care to list the route, facility, ownership and customer attributes of the data base that you'd make public, and briefly explain the acc

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

What I meant to state in my closing sentence of my last post, but didn't catch myself in time, was: " ... to ask on an official or unofficial level, whatever works." -- Frank A. Coluccio DTI Consulting Inc. 212-587-8150 Office 347-526-6788 Mobile

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? [ & Re: cyber-redundancy ]

> Imagine if 60 Hudson and 111 8th > were to go down at the same time? Finding means to mitigate this > threat is not frivolously spending the taxpayer's money, This is not only a fair question, it's the very dilemma that some of us faced during and immediately following September 11, 2001 when

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

arket based mechanism to do it. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, January 20, 2006 5:37 am Subject: Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? > > > Imagine if 60 Hudson and 111 8th > > were to go down at the same time? Finding means to mitigate th

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

> Imagine if 60 Hudson and 111 8th > were to go down at the same time? Finding means to mitigate this > threat is not frivolously spending the taxpayer's money, IMO; > although perhaps removing fiber maps is not the best way to > address this. No, removing fiber maps will not address this proble

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

the flaming. > > > - Original Message - > From: Joe Maimon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:01 pm > Subject: Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? > >> >> >> >> Dennis Dayman wrote: >> >>> "

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

Jim Popovitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Jerry Pasker wrote: >> The point is: What's more damaging? Being open with the maps to >> EVERYONE can see where the problem areas are so they can design >> around them? (or chose not to) or pulling the maps, and reports, and >> sticking our heads in

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

AIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:42 pm Subject: Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? > > Jerry Pasker wrote: > > > >> While it is always fun to call the government stupid, or anyone > else > >> for that matter, there is a little more to the sto

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

Jerry Pasker wrote: While it is always fun to call the government stupid, or anyone else for that matter, there is a little more to the story. - For one you do not need a backhoe to cut fiber - Two, fiber carries a lot more than Internet traffic - cell phone, 911, financial tranactions, etc

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

Jerry Pasker wrote: The point is: What's more damaging? Being open with the maps to EVERYONE can see where the problem areas are so they can design around them? (or chose not to) or pulling the maps, and reports, and sticking our heads in the sand, and hoping that security through obscurit

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

While it is always fun to call the government stupid, or anyone else for that matter, there is a little more to the story. - For one you do not need a backhoe to cut fiber - Two, fiber carries a lot more than Internet traffic - cell phone, 911, financial tranactions, etc. etc. - Three, while

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

"Inflict[ing] terror by killing people" is not the only tactic terrorists use. Attacks can be anything from a SPAM flood to a DDoS attack to taking down dozens of servers or routers utilizing known vulnerabilities. Targets can be bridges, buildings, etc. and don't necessarily result in loss of li

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? While it is always fun to call the government stupid, or anyone else for that matter, there is a little

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat? > > > > Dennis Dayman wrote: > > > "In 2004, Department of Homeland Security officials became > fearful that > > terrorists might start using accidental dig-ups as a road map > for deliberate > > attacks, and convince

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

At 12:01 PM 1/19/2006, you wrote: This is really stupid. Assuming the terrorist actually have the dozens of backhoes needed to completely erase meaningfull internet connectivity in north america, they would probably prefer to use them to smash cars and kill people on the interstate highways or

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

Dennis Dayman wrote: "In 2004, Department of Homeland Security officials became fearful that terrorists might start using accidental dig-ups as a road map for deliberate attacks, and convinced the FCC to begin locking up previously public data on outages. In a commission filing, DHS argued su

Re: The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 10:05:57AM -0600, Dennis Dayman wrote: > > "In 2004, Department of Homeland Security officials became fearful that > terrorists might start using accidental dig-ups as a road map for deliberate > attacks, and convinced the FCC to begin locking up previously public data on

The Backhoe: A Real Cyberthreat?

"In 2004, Department of Homeland Security officials became fearful that terrorists might start using accidental dig-ups as a road map for deliberate attacks, and convinced the FCC to begin locking up previously public data on outages. In a commission filing, DHS argued successfully that revealing