Re: facebook worm

2008-08-12 Thread Kelvin Chu
On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 2:33 AM, Patrick Giagnocavo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Turning nanog into a rehash of digg's technology section or the front page > of news.com reduces nanog's utility. > > --Patrick > > Are you saying that all network professionals should read digg or news.com? :-) Btw, s

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Patrick W. Gilmore
On Aug 12, 2008, at 4:48 PM, Paul Wall wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Tons of others exist, in big and little markets. There's one in 365 Main SF, there's KleyReX in the same building as DE-CIX, Big APE in 111 8th, NYCx there too, Chic

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread John Levine
>> That's one of the reasons many of them incorporate as non-profits... >> Under the tax laws of most countries, the U.S. and Canada included, >> non-profits are legaly protected against acquisition by for-profits. > >Do any of these operations post their tax returns online? In the US, every non-p

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread N. Yaakov Ziskind
> > That's one of the reasons many of them incorporate as non-profits... > > Under the tax laws of most countries, the U.S. and Canada included, > > non-profits are legaly protected against acquisition by for-profits. > > > > Do any of these operations post their tax returns online? > > -M< The

RE: was bogon filters, now "Brief Segue on 1918"

2008-08-12 Thread TJ
Michael - good points all, and saved me typing out a reply. Additionally, using up the RFC1918 space isn't the only problem ... the previously mentioned collision problems between so-called private networks become more and more likely (until almost guaranteed). Only nit: "In any case, IP

Re: Traceroute and random UDP ports

2008-08-12 Thread Patrick W. Gilmore
On Aug 12, 2008, at 7:54 PM, Glen Kent wrote: The outgoing packets from traceroute are sent towards the destination using UDP and very high port numbers, typically in the range of 32,768 and higher. This is because no one is gernally expected to run UDP services up there, so when the packet fina

Traceroute and random UDP ports

2008-08-12 Thread Glen Kent
Hi, The outgoing packets from traceroute are sent towards the destination using UDP and very high port numbers, typically in the range of 32,768 and higher. This is because no one is gernally expected to run UDP services up there, so when the packet finally reaches the destination, traceroute can

RE: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Chris Caputo
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008, Martin Hannigan wrote: > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008, Bill Woodcock wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > > > Could one of the "dangers" of a coop be "borg'ed by for-profit > > > entity looking to rip out every cent they can"? > > > > That's one of the reasons m

RE: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread John R Savageau
Matt Any2 is open to support any initiative that will reinforce development of networks and creativity within the Internet-connected community. There have been somewhat successful initiatives at locations such as the SIX to interconnect exchange points, and Any2 is open to contributing to similar

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Matt Liotta
On Aug 12, 2008, at 6:17 PM, Deepak Jain wrote: There are lots of providers that can do connectivity between Any2 and Equinix. It has been suggested privately that some Equinix MSAs may prevent this sort of thing. In fact, to prevent this sort of thing, I suggested providing x-connects fro

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Deepak Jain
Matt Liotta wrote: On Aug 12, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Deepak Jain wrote: Is there a more appropriate place for interested parties to discuss the possible creation of such a beast in the WDC area? I know we have about a lot of optical capacity we could help contribute to a stake in the ground bet

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Matt Liotta
On Aug 12, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Deepak Jain wrote: Is there a more appropriate place for interested parties to discuss the possible creation of such a beast in the WDC area? I know we have about a lot of optical capacity we could help contribute to a stake in the ground between Equinix/Ash an

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Deepak Jain
Paul Wall wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Deepak Jain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is there a more appropriate place for interested parties to discuss the possible creation of such a beast in the WDC area? I know we have about a lot of optical capacity we could help contribute to a stake

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Paul Wall
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Deepak Jain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there a more appropriate place for interested parties to discuss the > possible creation of such a beast in the WDC area? I know we have about a > lot of optical capacity we could help contribute to a stake in the ground >

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Deepak Jain
Paul Wall wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Tons of others exist, in big and little markets. There's one in 365 Main SF, there's KleyReX in the same building as DE-CIX, Big APE in 111 8th, NYCx there too, ChicagoIX just opened, etc., etc.

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Paul Wall
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tons of others exist, in big and little markets. There's one in 365 Main > SF, there's KleyReX in the same building as DE-CIX, Big APE in 111 8th, NYCx > there too, ChicagoIX just opened, etc., etc. Excellent point o

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Bill Woodcock
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008, Paul Wall wrote: > If it were as easy as you make it sound, I can assure you people would > be doing it. Yup, they are. There are a bit over three hundred IXPs in the world, about eighty of them in the U.S., and the vast majority of them were built by ISPs sol

RE: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Martin Hannigan
> -Original Message- > From: Bill Woodcock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 12:33 PM > To: Patrick W. Gilmore > Cc: NANOG list > Subject: Re: Coop Peering Fabric?? > > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > > Could one of the "dangers" of a co

RE: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Randy Epstein
> That's one of the reasons many of them incorporate as non-profits... > Under the tax laws of most countries, the U.S. and Canada included, > non-profits are legaly protected against acquisition by for-profits. >-Bill Yes, but it's somewhat easy to convert from

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Bill Woodcock
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > Could one of the "dangers" of a coop be "borg'ed by for-profit > entity looking to rip out every cent they can"? That's one of the reasons many of them incorporate as non-profits... Under the tax laws of most countries, the U.S. and

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Andy Davidson
On 12 Aug 2008, at 04:15, Deepak Jain wrote: A "coop", best-effort switch fabric colo'd at a few sites would allow participants to peer off traffic at a price of the order of a single cross-connect (~$500/month per 10G port is possible, maybe less) Most of the Internet Exchanges in Europ

Comcast Gets FCC Slap on Wrist

2008-08-12 Thread Robert D. Scott
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/frame/2008/081108wan1.html Robert D. Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Network Engineer 352-273-0113 Phone CNS - Network Services 352-392-2061 CNS Receptionist University of Florida 352-392-9440 FAX Florida Lambda Rai

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Patrick W. Gilmore
On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:23 AM, David Diaz wrote: Second, I have heard a lot of talk about SIX over the last year or so and there is no guarantees that situation won't change. As a board member of SIX, I can tell you that we are not going away any time soon. -- TTFN, patrick

Re: BGP route filtering. You want it.

2008-08-12 Thread Charles Wyble
Anton Kapela wrote: URL works again. I had uploaded an edited version of the talk, but forgot to rename it. It's probably good that only a few of you saw the original, as it wasn't quite the 'professional' text that I'd typically write. Permissible and desired presentation formats and language at

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Dorn Hetzel
Speaking of AtlantaIX, the new business model seems less attractive for customers than the old one. Can anyone speak to why it got sold? Was it failing financially or someone just wanted to cash out? On 8/12/08, Patrick W. Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:37 AM, Paul

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Joe Greco
> I guess they would be more interesting deployed in Ashburn or some place > similar because you could exclude the cost of "bringing" traffic to the > exchange if the equipment (and bits) are already transported through > that facility. Certainly there are some of us who would see this as advan

Coop Exchange

2008-08-12 Thread Donald J Westlight
The main argument for an exchange is qualitative. Do you want your bits to get where they are going with low latency, jitter, and packet loss? Exchanges are a very practical way to solve the N squared peering problem. Speaking as a founder of a small exchange; it does all come down to money.

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Jim Mercer
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 10:11:13AM -0400, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > Several small IXes have grown quite a bit with no or very small > membership fees. Look at the ones I mentioned. I think SIX is the > largest, but they're all not that tiny. TorIX, for many years, was financed by announcin

Re: impossible circuit

2008-08-12 Thread Jon Lewis
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are dups generated on traffic going over that DS3 from (rather than to) the Ocala side? The dupes are only generated in the Orlando->Ocala direction. Does the DS3 cross Sprint's network? The DS3 enters an Embarq (the telco formerly known as Spri

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread David Diaz
Yes you are absolutely correct. Smaller players doing this for fun and experimentation if not only a good idea, I believe it is critical for the internet to grow and change. Ask UUNET how long it takes them to get approval to implement something bigor even small. Two pts thought. First, the cro

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Patrick W. Gilmore
On Aug 12, 2008, at 9:58 AM, David Diaz wrote: Love the Borg comment. Thanx. Great thread. Old topic. It recycles every couple of years. Not to speak for telx or Mike L but I do not think anyone was motivated to Borg anything but to support AIX. 10Gig ports are expensive. I like th

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread David Diaz
Patrick Love the Borg comment. Great thread. Old topic. It recycles every couple of years. Not to speak for telx or Mike L but I do not think anyone was motivated to Borg anything but to support AIX. 10Gig ports are expensive. I like the idea of more exchange points in that they usually prov

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread David Diaz
Patrick Love the Borg comment. Great thread. Old topic. It recycles every couple of years. Not to speak for telx or Mike L but I do not think anyone was motivated to Borg anything but to support AIX. 10Gig ports are expensive. I like the idea of more exchange points in that they usuall

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Mike Hughes
--On 12 August 2008 08:32 -0400 "Patrick W. Gilmore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > People are. I (and others) mentioned SIX & TorIX, plus I mentioned > PaNAP. Then there's AtlantaIX, although that recently got slurped by > TelX. (Hrmmm, could one of the "dangers" of a coop be "borg'ed by > for-p

Comcast Tech?

2008-08-12 Thread Alex Rubenstein
I am looking for a Comcast tech to help us solve what may be a simple issue. Normal channels have failed. Find me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] please .. thanks!

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Patrick W. Gilmore
On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:37 AM, Paul Wall wrote: If it were as easy as you make it sound, I can assure you people would be doing it. People are. I (and others) mentioned SIX & TorIX, plus I mentioned PaNAP. Then there's AtlantaIX, although that recently got slurped by TelX. (Hrmmm, could o

Re: impossible circuit

2008-08-12 Thread list-nanog
Are dups generated on traffic going over that DS3 from (rather than to) the Ocala side? Does the DS3 cross Sprint's network? > Then we noticed the really weird stuff. Pings to anything in Ocala > responded with multiple dupes and ttl exceeded messages from a Level3 IP. > Traceroutes to cert

[NANOG-announce] Call for Nominations for NANOG Steering Committee 2008/9

2008-08-12 Thread Philip Smith
Hello everyone, Elections for three of the six elected positions on the NANOG Steering Committee will be held in October 2008. The currently-serving Steering Committee members whose terms are expiring are Joe Provo, Randy Bush and Philip Smith. Randy and Philip have also served two consecutive

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Paul Wall
Deepak, If it were as easy as you make it sound, I can assure you people would be doing it. Also, does your Equinix MSA contain a non-compete clause, which could be interpreted to mean you can't run a competing IX (metro fabric, exchange, whatever) out of their facilities? I hear many do. Drive

Re: Coop Peering Fabric??

2008-08-12 Thread Jim Mercer
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:15:49PM -0400, Deepak Jain wrote: > A "coop", best-effort switch fabric colo'd at a few sites would allow > participants to peer off traffic at a price of the order of a single > cross-connect (~$500/month per 10G port is possible, maybe less), > private-VLANs all-arou