Re: Best TAC Services from Equipment Vendors

2024-03-11 Thread Chris Adams
gineer go extra to help me with a work-around to an obscure issue. -- Chris Adams

Re: The Reg does 240/4

2024-02-15 Thread Chris Adams
isting company that wants more IPv4 space. If you want 240/4 to be reserved for these new companies, you haven't identified ANY reason for ANY existing company or user to exert any resources, other than "but I want it". -- Chris Adams

Re: The Reg does 240/4

2024-02-13 Thread Chris Adams
k-around that handles 50% of cases". Can you have two Mikrotiks connected to each other with a /31? If not, they don't support using /31s. -- Chris Adams

Re: Networks ignoring prepends?

2024-01-24 Thread Chris Adams
ere things went. -- Chris Adams

Re: Networks ignoring prepends?

2024-01-24 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, William Herrin said: > On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 4:00 PM Chris Adams wrote: > > Once upon a time, William Herrin said: > > > Nevertheless, in the protocol's design, the one expressed in the > > > RFC's, AS path length = distance. > > > &g

Re: Networks ignoring prepends?

2024-01-23 Thread Chris Adams
s used on the Internet. You're about 30 years too late to have any influence on that. -- Chris Adams

Re: Networks ignoring prepends?

2024-01-23 Thread Chris Adams
override the localpref. Being a customer of a customer makes that harder, but then it's basically on you to choose your connections with that in mind. -- Chris Adams

Re: Stealthy Overlay Network Re: 202401100645.AYC Re: IPv4 address block

2024-01-20 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, sro...@ronan-online.com said: > I am curious if anyone has ever given you positive feedback on this idea? So > far > all I’ve seen is the entire community thinking it’s a bad idea. Why do you > insist this is a good solution? Because people keep responding. -- Chris Adams

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

2023-10-04 Thread Chris Adams
my "regular" phone, and then only showed the Spanish version). -- Chris Adams

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

2023-10-04 Thread Chris Adams
Alert class to be the same, if it exists. > Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting? My weather radio went off for the regular weekly test a couple of hours before the national alert test, and did not go off for the national alert. -- Chris Adams

Re: SMTP-friendly VPS provider where I can also get a BGP feed

2023-09-26 Thread Chris Adams
se but was still an annoying change). -- Chris Adams

Re: SMTP-friendly VPS provider where I can also get a BGP feed

2023-09-26 Thread Chris Adams
hborhood" reputation (an issue with any VPS as they can't police everything). -- Chris Adams

mail.nanog.org broken v6 reverse DNS

2023-09-14 Thread Chris Adams
servers for scservers.com return SERVFAIL. -- Chris Adams

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

2023-08-09 Thread Chris Adams
ions, due to the distance and wave reflections. Also, from a security point of view, I have read that it is legal to have your own low-power transmitter on the WWVB frequency, and there are instructions for doing it with a Pi, so it would be very cheap and easy to mess with somebody's WWVB signal. -- Chris Adams

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

2023-08-05 Thread Chris Adams
0.freebsd as it clearly does have connectivity > >issues from some of the pool project's own sensors. > > Many thanks, Andreas. > > I'll take this up with the FreeBSD folk. It's the NTP pool people you need to talk to - the .freebsd. bit is just a vendored entry into the pool

Re: Treasurydirect.gov unreachable over IPv6?

2023-05-17 Thread Chris Adams
which connects on port 443 but fails in SSL negotiation. I wonder if some over-zealous network admin blocked all ICMPv6. -- Chris Adams

Re: Reverse DNS for eyeballs?

2023-04-21 Thread Chris Adams
t;ownership", I'm going to registries, not DNS. Since it can't be guaranteed (or even flagged as) maintained, you can't trust any information in that string. -- Chris Adams

Re: Reverse DNS for eyeballs?

2023-04-21 Thread Chris Adams
see any benefit to programmatically-generated reverse DNS. I stopped setting it up a long time ago now. Really, reverse DNS these days is mostly only useful for: - mail servers (where it shows a modicum of control and clue) - infrastructure/router IPs (so mtr/traceroute can show useful info) -- Chris Adams

Re: Searchable archives of the list?

2023-03-23 Thread Chris Adams
o impractical. -- Chris Adams

Re: Typical last mile battery runtime (protecting against power cuts)

2023-02-04 Thread Chris Adams
which could easily pulled another 1-2kW (oven, microwave, etc.). And that's without any water/septic pumps. Electric heat pumps are great for power efficiency until the temperature drops and they switch over to pure electric heat. -- Chris Adams

Re: Google Speed Test

2022-12-28 Thread Chris Adams
r just about every client OS that tends to be much more accurate. -- Chris Adams

Re: BCP38 For BGP Customers

2022-11-07 Thread Chris Adams
l back filter in based on something like IRR data? In the case of Juniper, you can use the same prefix-list in your BGP policy (you are applying a filter to your customers' BGP announcements, right?) and the uRPF exception list. -- Chris Adams

Re: IPv6 internet broken, cogent/telia/hurricane not peering

2022-08-11 Thread Chris Adams
;can I get to Google and HE on IPv6 on your circuit?". -- Chris Adams

Re: NANOG List posts and DMARC

2022-08-02 Thread Chris Adams via NANOG
ect behavior as it breaks other things). That is not the case right now; it appears to be modifying ALL senders since earlier today (about 12:20pm CDT) . Your message has "From: Bryan Fields via NANOG " even though you have no DMARC record at all. -- Chris Adams

Re: NANOG List posts and DMARC

2022-08-02 Thread Chris Adams via NANOG
Once upon a time, Chris Adams said: > Once upon a time, Jared Mauch said: > > Can someone flip the option in Mailman for DMARC please, it’s problematic > > as if one posts and does DMARC and has feedback on, our messages are > > possibly rejected, and the feedback from

Re: NANOG List posts and DMARC

2022-08-02 Thread Chris Adams via NANOG
ing (From rewrite) for senders with a DMARC p=reject. -- Chris Adams

Re: 400G forwarding - how does it work?

2022-07-25 Thread Chris Adams
e each operation individually. -- Chris Adams

Re: FCC proposes fines against 73 applicants of Rural Digital Opportunity Fund

2022-07-22 Thread Chris Adams
s demo pool to meet their grant timeline requirements. -- Chris Adams

Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-06-06 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said: > I meant downloads as in gigantic games. If you give them more > bandwidth it just encourages the game makes to build bigger game > downloads. I don't buy that - users are still constrained on storage, especially on consoles. -- Chris Adams

Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-05-28 Thread Chris Adams
5 Mbps is like saying 640k is enough for anybody. -- Chris Adams

Re: fs.com Ethernet switches

2022-04-14 Thread Chris Adams
pplied after authentication (so you could SSH and authenticate, only to then be denied access, which makes it susceptible to password scanners). Instead you configure an ACL on the SSH service itself. -- Chris Adams

Re: "Permanent" DST

2022-03-16 Thread Chris Adams
r me, CST will change from UTC-0600 to UTC-0500). How will you distinguish between "old" MST and "new" MST when you see it listed? -- Chris Adams

Re: "Permanent" DST

2022-03-15 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Jay R. Ashworth said: > This also, as I understood it, why high-school is always the first grade > level which starts, and ends, the school day (often 7a-2p or so). Not "always"... high school starts 30-40 minutes later than the younger kids here. -- Chris Adams

Re: "Permanent" DST

2022-03-15 Thread Chris Adams
all because some businesses think their hours are nailed for all eternity, and the world must change instead. -- Chris Adams

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flow collection and analysis

2022-01-26 Thread Chris Adams
tware handles certs and updates. -- Chris Adams

Re: home router battery backup

2022-01-13 Thread Chris Adams
ch jitter! :) Use a proper serial or GPIO port, with that you can get down to sub-microsecond accuracy. -- Chris Adams

Re: home router battery backup

2022-01-13 Thread Chris Adams
e cutters). -- Chris Adams

Re: home router battery backup

2022-01-13 Thread Chris Adams
here's a power outage, but we also haven't had any extended outage. Since the fiber network is run by the utility, the huts are at substations, so it would take a substation outage to knock out power to the hut (and I think they may still also have generators at the huts). -- Chris Adams

Re: Linode and/or Google Fiber contacts?

2021-12-02 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Chris Adams said: > Anybody here from Linode and/or Google Fiber that can help out with > packet loss between these networks at NYIIX peering? It's been going on > for almost a week... opened a Linode case and they looked at the VM > host, also opened a Googl

Linode and/or Google Fiber contacts?

2021-12-02 Thread Chris Adams
, but the regular support channels aren't getting this to the right people. Off-list contact is fine. -- Chris Adams

Re: Redploying most of 127/8 as unicast public

2021-11-20 Thread Chris Adams
ing closer to that point every day. Providers running CG-NAT see that getting IPv6 dual-stack deployed reduces the IPv4 bandwidth (so reduces the CG-NAT costs) because so much is IPv6-enabled already. -- Chris Adams

Re: IPv6 woes - RFC

2021-09-25 Thread Chris Adams
, like 127.000.000.001 (which still works) or 008.008.008.008 (which does not), is broken. -- Chris Adams

Re: Rack rails on network equipment

2021-09-24 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Niels Bakker said: > * c...@cmadams.net (Chris Adams) [Sat 25 Sep 2021, 00:17 CEST]: > >Which - why do I have to order different part numbers for back to > >front airflow? It's just a fan, can't it be made reversible? > >Seems like that would be cheaper th

Re: Rack rails on network equipment

2021-09-24 Thread Chris Adams
rk equipment is not entirely competent. Which - why do I have to order different part numbers for back to front airflow? It's just a fan, can't it be made reversible? Seems like that would be cheaper than stocking alternate part numbers. -- Chris Adams

Re: Muni broadband sucks (was: New minimum speed for US broadband connections)

2021-06-02 Thread Chris Adams
collusion or anything (probably), but our cable rates went up really fast there for a while. -- Chris Adams

RE: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

2021-06-01 Thread Chris Adams (IT)
This short term mindset is part of the problem. I’ve seen projects around me using CAF funds that push DSLAMs further into the network to get users up to 100mbps, but they are already at their ceiling as soon as they are installed. I admire providers who invest beyond the short term into

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

2021-05-28 Thread Chris Adams
ime of the Internet being a service largely for consumption of data is past. While school-from-home may be a passing thing as the pandemic wanes, it looks like work-from-home (at least part time) is not going to go away for a whole lot of people/companies. -- Chris Adams

RE: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

2021-05-28 Thread Chris Adams (IT)
I’d be interested to understand the rationale for not wanting to change the definition. Is it strictly the business/capital outlay expense? Thanks, Chris Adams From: NANOG On Behalf Of Jason Canady Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 8:39 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: New minimum speed for US

Re: End-user Alert Delivery (was Re: NDAA passed: Internet and Online Streaming Services Emergency Alert Study)

2021-01-14 Thread Chris Adams
ypical 9V replaceable battery models, the "change the battery twice a year" bit is not based on the actual load, but just trying to get people to think about it (and maybe then getting it changed once a year, which is perfectly fine and maybe even still more often than needed). -- Chris Adams

Re: NDAA passed: Internet and Online Streaming Services Emergency Alert Study

2021-01-06 Thread Chris Adams
le data most of the time?) is worth anything to you. Aren't the cell-based emergency alerts on all cell phones, not just smartphones? -- Chris Adams

Re: NDAA passed: Internet and Online Streaming Services Emergency Alert Study

2021-01-05 Thread Chris Adams
. I don't know if an unsubscribed cell phone gets the emergency alerts (I know you are supposed to be able to call 911 from any cell phone, even if not carrying paid service). If so, that'd be another cheap way to get alerts. -- Chris Adams

Re: NDAA passed: Internet and Online Streaming Services Emergency Alert Study

2021-01-04 Thread Chris Adams
ecause the warning came after it was on the ground (and probably after they were dead). -- Chris Adams

Re: NDAA passed: Internet and Online Streaming Services Emergency Alert Study

2021-01-03 Thread Chris Adams
. So my weather/all-hazards radio alarm went off at 3am for something that happened 200 miles away. I then disabled that alert category. I only have severe weather warning categories enabled now (because tornadoes are a thing I do want to know about). -- Chris Adams

Re: [External] Re: 10g residential CPE

2020-12-25 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said: > On 12/25/20 12:40 PM, Chris Adams wrote: > >The other aspect of it is that we're doing these downloads while > >continuing to play other games and chat (both things sensitive to > >latency). Some have family/roommates in

Re: [External] Re: 10g residential CPE

2020-12-25 Thread Chris Adams
changes behavior. Having ability to do more means your behavior changes to utilize more. We don't NEED high speed Internet to download games - we could leave the download running overnight for example - but being able to download big games in minutes means we get to try more games, finding new things to like. -- Chris Adams

Re: Cable Company Hotspots

2020-11-22 Thread Chris Adams
I live. -- Chris Adams

Re: A letter from the CEO

2020-11-20 Thread Chris Adams
. My experience with Mailchimp though requires you to submit addresses for a list, so spam like this is purely intentional. -- Chris Adams

Re: Ingress filtering on transits, peers, and IX ports

2020-10-15 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, adamv0...@netconsultings.com said: > Actually ideally there would be a feature/knob to automatically sync BGP (and > static routes) with packet filters. Junos has prefix-lists that can be referenced in both BGP policy and firewall statements. -- Chris Adams

Re: Ingress filtering on transits, peers, and IX ports

2020-10-13 Thread Chris Adams
mail from some group I've never heard of (and haven't AFAIK engaged the community about their "new" attack, scans, or notices)... seems more like shameless self promotion. -- Chris Adams

Re: Juniper configuration recommendations/BCP

2020-10-08 Thread Chris Adams
gines run the FreeBSD-based Junos in a VM on a Linux hypervisor. There's also Junos Evolved, which is Junos ported over to a Linux-based system instead of FreeBSD (among other architectual changes). -- Chris Adams

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Chris Adams
launch 7 years ago. I expect that back-compat Xbox 360 games don't get the IPv6 support, but I've never checked myself. I'd assume that since the 7-year-old console supports IPv6, the launching-in-6-weeks console will too. -- Chris Adams

Re: Centurylink having a bad morning?

2020-08-30 Thread Chris Adams
rors have entirely unexpected consequences. It's possible some poor design issue was exposed, or it could be some basically unforeseeable incident. -- Chris Adams

Re: Centurylink having a bad morning?

2020-08-30 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Robert Blayzor said: > Just to confirm we're seeing this on AS3356 and not AS209, correct? Correct - we had problems with our 3356 connection but not our 209 connection. -- Chris Adams

Re: CloudFlare Issues?

2020-07-17 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Peter Kristolaitis said: > Cloudflare's status page acknowledged a recursive DNS issue as of a > few minutes ago.  Lots of reports of problems on the Outages list > and Reddit. It was not just recursive - authoritative DNS on Cloudflare servers also did not respond.

Re: Partial vs Full tables

2020-06-10 Thread Chris Adams
een enough providers that drop hops in traceroute that I can only assume nobody really cares about that case either. -- Chris Adams

Re: Abuse Desks

2020-04-29 Thread Chris Adams
ok several tries to get the password right or had the wrong SSH key. Should that have triggered an abuse email? -- Chris Adams

Re: [EXT] Re: rack rails

2020-03-30 Thread Chris Adams
aybe it's because they're primarily a server vendor, but Dell switches (at least the N3000 series I've used most recently) have 4-post mount rails. IIRC they aren't extending sliding rails like the servers have, but the switch slides into the rails. -- Chris Adams

Re: interesting troubleshooting

2020-03-20 Thread Chris Adams
f one LAG member being congested, and my problem IP pairs were hashing to that member. My traffic wasn't VPN (SSH, with ping/mtr for testing), but it is possible that somebody else's was - I didn't get detailed with the other NOC. -- Chris Adams

Re: Hi-Rise Building Fiber Suggestions

2020-02-26 Thread Chris Adams
bitive, > would it not? If you are looking to save a buck on the ToR->server connection, why not just use DAC cables? -- Chris Adams

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

2020-02-12 Thread Chris Adams
n other settings. If you plug in an external hard drive, there's a separate setting that is off by default (so if a game is on the external drive, it doesn't get updates). -- Chris Adams

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

2020-02-12 Thread Chris Adams
e, presumably you have the volume to back it > up. I think security is probably the sticking point for this. Content owners don't want anybody having direct access to their files, and as more content is distributed over HTTPS, content distributors don't wany anbody having access to their certificates. -- Chris Adams

Customer sending blackhole route with another provider's AS

2020-02-11 Thread Chris Adams
AS in the path? That seems... unusual. Our internal blackhole system uses a private AS (so it can be stripped off before sending to anyone else). Just curious what others do... I always assumed AS path filtering to customer (and their downstream customers) AS was a standard best practice. -- Chris

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

2020-01-23 Thread Chris Adams
ill always grow to 110% of available space. I get annoyed when I'm chatting with friends, waiting to play some game we decided to download, and it's ONLY downloading at 300 megabits per second! :P -- Chris Adams

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

2020-01-23 Thread Chris Adams
ther than buying discs)? I have games on my Xbox that are over 100G. -- Chris Adams

Re: Elephant in the room - Akamai

2019-12-08 Thread Chris Adams
icant amount of traffic frmo their AS comes across transit rather than peering. In old terms, this is "hot potato" routing - where the source gets the traffic out of their network as soon as possible, rather than spend internal resources to carry it as close to the destination as they can. -- Chris Adams

Re: Elephant in the room - Akamai

2019-12-06 Thread Chris Adams
re. We'd had Akamai servers for many years, replaced as needed (including one failed servre replaced right before they turned them off). Now about 50% of our Akamai traffic comes across transit links, not peering. This seems like it would be rather inefficient for them too... -- Chris Adams

Re: Elephant in the room - Akamai

2019-12-05 Thread Chris Adams
t; multi-player portions of a game because images are going to be pushing 100 > gigabytes RSN (some are already well over 40gig). Xbox One X games are already there... I'm a pretty casual gamer, and I have multiple games over 90GB (one is 117GB). -- Chris Adams

Re: IPv4 and Auctions

2019-10-24 Thread Chris Adams
at one point (and even that was kind of tight). The business has changed though, and now they have a /23 and two /24s, and sold the rest. -- Chris Adams

Re: BGP over TLS

2019-10-22 Thread Chris Adams
ng to securely share MD5 keys today - a BGP CA could be published (possibly even at RIRs). -- Chris Adams

Re: Video Streaming Wars

2019-10-15 Thread Chris Adams
y Disney Movies? You have to carry ESPN-U in the same package. So... now those very same content providers are trying to cut out the middle-man of the linear TV (cable, sat, IPTV) providers, and recreate the same bundling. -- Chris Adams

Re: Comcast outages continue even in areas with PG power restored

2019-10-11 Thread Chris Adams
appeared to be no backup power in their plant. Any power blink and my Internet and TV both dropped (my equipment is on UPS). -- Chris Adams

Re: Crowdfunding critical infrastructure

2019-06-27 Thread Chris Adams
When I needed software to support DEC Unix features for example (because that's what my company used), I wrote patches and submitted them to OpenSSH, BIND, etc. My company was fine with that (we weren't going to sell software). -- Chris Adams

Re: Crowdfunding critical infrastructure

2019-06-27 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Eric S. Raymond said: > Chris Adams : > > Once upon a time, Eric S. Raymond said: > > > Tell it to Patrick Volkerding, who sweated to created the first Linux > > > distribution > > > > No, he didn't. > > Can you be more specif

Re: Crowdfunding critical infrastructure

2019-06-27 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Eric S. Raymond said: > Tell it to Patrick Volkerding, who sweated to created the first Linux > distribution No, he didn't. -- Chris Adams

Re: Cost effective time servers

2019-06-24 Thread Chris Adams
eally odd to trust one and not the other. -- Chris Adams

Re: Cost effective time servers

2019-06-24 Thread Chris Adams
operly distribute the notification in advance. -- Chris Adams

Re: CenturyLink/Level 3 combined AS

2019-06-07 Thread Chris Adams
is (aka Cable & Wireless aka InternetMCI) AS 3561, and untold more Internet history... :) -- Chris Adams

Re: NTP for ASBRs?

2019-05-08 Thread Chris Adams
mat phase-modulated signal. Hopefully there'll be more, but with the WWVB funding threats, I wouldn't be surprised if companies don't want to invest in any new products that use it. -- Chris Adams

Re: Fibre provider in Starkville, MS

2019-05-06 Thread Chris Adams
competent service employees, leaving you stuck when there's an outage. We have "legacy" circuits with Windstream (originally ordered from Deltacom, who was bought by Earthlink, who was bought by Windstream), and the support on those is pretty poor. -- Chris Adams

Re: NTP question

2019-05-02 Thread Chris Adams
but the pool folks argued just as strongly > for using it back then. Current versions of both ntpd and chrony support a "pool" config option as an alternative to the "server" option, and I believe both will monitor the reachability and quality of the sources and periodically refresh from DNS. -- Chris Adams

Re: NTP question

2019-05-01 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, William Herrin said: > You sure you need a GPS NTP server? You understand that if you do, you need > two for reliability right That'd be 3 - a man with 2 clocks never know what time it is! :) -- Chris Adams

Re: looking for hostname router identifier validation

2019-04-29 Thread Chris Adams
egend I still refer to ASes by companies that haven't existed in ages... 701 is UUNet, 3561 is MCI, 1 is BBN, etc. :) I don't handle name changes well (I also refer to one of the main roads where I live by a name it hasn't had in close to 20 years). -- Chris Adams

Re: GPS week number rollover event on April 6th

2019-03-08 Thread Chris Adams
roll-over. For example, the Trimble TSIP driver has a hard-coded offset and has already rolled (but didn't do it right on at least some devices). -- Chris Adams

Google Fiber v6 PD only giving /64

2019-01-05 Thread Chris Adams
Anybody here from Google Fiber? When I first got it last year, my IPv6 setup got a /56 prefix delegated. I now see that no matter what size I request, I only get a /64. Is this intentional? -- Chris Adams

Re: email scannering / filtering

2018-12-14 Thread Chris Adams
ges that came through. I'd be interested in hearing of other Linux software (free or paid) that can catch modern email viruses. -- Chris Adams

Re: GTT Regulatory Recovery Surcharge

2018-12-02 Thread Chris Adams
have binding arbitration clauses, so nobody can get it to a court for a precedent-setting decision). -- Chris Adams

Re: CVV (was: Re: bloomberg on supermicro: sky is falling)

2018-11-09 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Stephen Satchell said: > On 11/08/2018 07:50 PM, Chris Adams wrote: > > Signatures are no longer required for chip card transactions in the US, > > except I think for transactions where the auth is done on the amount > > before an added tip (restaura

Re: CVV (was: Re: bloomberg on supermicro: sky is falling)

2018-11-08 Thread Chris Adams
station attendants, but also because of poor physical security) and installing the skimmer hardware out of sight. The hardware has Bluetooth, so the bad guys just pull up and get gas and someone in the car can retrieve the data (from multiple pumps even). -- Chris Adams

Re: ifIndex

2018-10-12 Thread Chris Adams
n of SNMP - indexed tables? ifIndex is far from the only index in SNMP, and many of them still change today at various times. It isn't that hard to fetch the indexed field in a bulk get, rewalking the table if you don't get what you expected. Cricket did this in 1999. -- Chris Adams

Re: CVV (was: Re: bloomberg on supermicro: sky is falling)

2018-10-11 Thread Chris Adams
erican Express), unless ID is otherwise required by law (like for age-limited products). I've walked out of stores that required an ID. -- Chris Adams

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