Re: Correcting Netflix ipv6 geolocation

> On 19 Oct 2023, at 02:09, Justin Kilpatrick wrote: > > Our ipv6 subnet 2602::FBAD::/40 is You likely mean 2602:FBAD::/40, as the one above is not a valid IPv6 address ;) BGP wise it seems only 2602:fbad:8::/45 and 2602:fbad:10::/45 are announced as per

Correcting Netflix ipv6 geolocation

Our ipv6 subnet 2602::FBAD::/40 is showing up as in Kiev Ukraine on Fast.com and Netflix.com which is causing all sorts of problems for our US based customers. Other services like Google and MaxMind don't seem to have any issue and report correct locations. Happy to follow up with more

Would someone from Sling.com and Netflix contact me off-list

Would someone from Sling.com and Netflix contact me off-list I am running into issues with several of my home internet users being blocked from your services. Thanks, Anthony Leto Flying Man Studio, LLC AS393941 anth...@fms.io

Netflix GeoIP location support

Any Netflix folk on the list that would be able to fix a Geo-IP location lookup issue for end-user assignments in the SF Bay Area (Some of which are Netflix employees)? Your Geo-IP Lookup Helpdesk takes the matter a little too nonchalant with no sense of urgency (2-3 weeks). Any help would

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 3:41 PM Matthew Walster wrote: The user initiates the connection to the CDN. The user is paying for a level of access to the internet via the BT network, with varying tiers of speed at particular costs. They are advertised as "Unlimited broadband: With no data caps or

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

I don't know what they are putting in the water in Korea, but strange things are reported from there. In addition to the SK Telecom shenanigans, apparently KT can't tell the difference between a DDoS and a routing error. https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20211025006253320 - Jared

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/21/21 20:28, Fred Baker wrote: I’m not sure I disagree, but let throw in a point of consideration. Historically, as you note, the caller pays the toll. However, the caller also CHOSE to call, even though the called party might find the call irritating. With a CDN, the network is out

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Uh, that is what is being said… The user originated the call, so the CDN shouldn’t have to pay the user’s ISP to deliver the replies to the users’ requests. Owen > On Oct 21, 2021, at 11:28 , Fred Baker wrote: > > I’m not sure I disagree, but let throw in a point of consideration. >

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021, 19:28 Fred Baker, wrote: > I’m not sure I disagree, but let throw in a point of consideration. > Historically, as you note, the caller pays the toll. However, the caller > also CHOSE to call, even though the called party might find the call > irritating. With a CDN, the

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

I’m not sure I disagree, but let throw in a point of consideration. Historically, as you note, the caller pays the toll. However, the caller also CHOSE to call, even though the called party might find the call irritating. With a CDN, the network is out there hoping to be called, and the user

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 at 17:43, Owen DeLong wrote: > > On Oct 21, 2021, at 06:30 , Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail) < > allenmckinleykitc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I totally agree that this is not a perfect analogy. But I have some > sympathy for both parties in this debate. > > Close enough on the

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

e sense, I as a called party did indeed find it necessary to pay > substantial fees for the privilege of being called. > > And when I instituted toll-free calling, of course I paid significantly more. Sure… However, sufficient connection is represented by Netflix investing in su

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

ve > coordination of demand than there is today” > > https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/10/squid-games-success-reopens-debate-over-who-should-pay-for-rising-internet-traffic-netflix > > > For reference British Telecom has about 10 million broadband subscribers,

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

..Allen > On Oct 20, 2021, at 15:43, Matthew Walster wrote, among > other things: > > Seems pretty disingenuous to now say the called party has to pay as well, in > stark contrast to decades of precedent with their telephone product, just > because their customers are actually using what

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 at 19:53, Jared Brown wrote: > “When the rules were created 25 years ago I don’t think anyone would have > envisioned four or five companies would be driving 80% of the traffic on > the world’s internet. They aren’t making a contribution to the services > they are being

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

-over-who-should-pay-for-rising-internet-traffic-netflix For reference British Telecom has about 10 million broadband subscribers, so apparently those £200m capacity upgrades are stinging. All in all, this raises an interesting question. Is British Telecom running their networks so hot

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

of > playback to explain the situation to their mutual customers. Instead of the > typical FBI notice, imagine the movie starting with an ad that explains how > the ISP is trying to increase consumer costs by forcing Netflix to > pass along additional fees paid to the ISP to deliver content

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

customers. Instead of the > typical FBI notice, imagine the movie starting with an ad that explains > how the ISP is trying to increase consumer costs by forcing Netflix to > pass along additional fees paid to the ISP to deliver content the customer > has already paid said same ISP t

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 18, 2021, at 14:48 , Jay Hennigan wrote: > > On 10/18/21 07:02, Josh Luthman wrote: > >>Netflix, as an example, has even been willing to bear most of the cost >>with peering or bringing servers to ISPs to reduce the ISP's costs and >>improve

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/18/21 07:02, Josh Luthman wrote: Netflix, as an example, has even been willing to bear most of the cost with peering or bringing servers to ISPs to reduce the ISP's costs and improve the ISP customer's experience. Netflix doesn't do those things because it cares about

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

e: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge On 10/10/21 12:57 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: On 10/10/21 21:33, Matthew Petach wrote: If you sell a service for less than it costs to provide, simply based on the hopes that people won't actually *use* it, that's called "g

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

position even harder to ensure that you will continue to get paid. You are SK Telecom. On 10/18/2021 9:02 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Imagine it's 2008 and your AP is pushing out 3 mbps. Customers are all happy.  Suddenly, Netflix demands 10x what you're offering.  Customers are not happy. Customers

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Imagine it's 2008 and your AP is pushing out 3 mbps. Customers are all happy. Suddenly, Netflix demands 10x what you're offering. Customers are not happy. Customers don't understand. People don't understand. There are a million cogs in the machine and if the path of least resistance

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

I agree with you generally. It's not impossible, but probably unlikely for an individual to be sued for contents of cookie data or similar small fragments like that. I do believe it's orders of more magnitude more likely for the 'average' residential consumer to attract a suit from the

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/13/21 2:39 AM, Doug Barton wrote: On the cookie issue, I have had very good luck with this in Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-autodelete/ - Nice, I have the

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On the cookie issue, I have had very good luck with this in Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-autodelete/ hope this helps, Doug On 10/12/21 6:26 AM, scott wrote: On 10/12/21 9:15 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: So, I take it you steadfastly block *all* cookies from

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 9:15 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: So, I take it you steadfastly block *all* cookies from being stored or transmitted from your browser at home? --\ I used to when Firefox had the "ask me every time" for cookies. They

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 2:01 PM Tom Beecher wrote: > I think it would be absolutely *stunning* for content providers >> to turn the model on its head; use a bittorrent like model for >> caching and serving content out of subscribers homes at >> recalcitrant ISPs, so that data doesn't come from

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> > I think it would be absolutely *stunning* for content providers > to turn the model on its head; use a bittorrent like model for > caching and serving content out of subscribers homes at > recalcitrant ISPs, so that data doesn't come from outside, > it comes out of the mesh within the eyeball

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Tue, 12 Oct 2021, 02:24 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > A 4K 2 hour movie is about 40GB. Most modern smart TVs around 32GB of RAM > and can probably devote about 20GB of that to buffering a stream, so yeah, > that should actually be doable. > Most users are not streaming 4K, it's a very small

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 8:16 AM Jared Brown wrote: > Mark Tinka wrote: [...] > > > But I doubt that > > will work, unless someone can think up a clever way to modify BitTorrent > > to suit today's network architectures. > Unless network topology is somehow exposed, this isn't possible. All >

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

evenue-increase-in-2q21-as-5g-subscriber-numbers-rise/ > > Nevertheless, let's go with the hypothesis that service is provided below > cost. > > Providing access is mostly fixed costs, as there are very few consumables in > running a network. > > IP transit costs aren't a

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 08:13 , Jared Brown wrote: > > Mark Tinka wrote: >> Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I know BitTorrent to >> work is the file is downloaded to disk, unarchived and then listed as >> ready to watch. > That's not how it works. Several streaming BitTorrent

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 06:45 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/11/21 22:57, Matthew Walster wrote: > >> Ignoring for the moment that P2P is inherently difficult to stream with >> (you're usually downloading chunks in parallel, and with devices like Smart >> TVs etc you don't really have

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 18:33, Sabri Berisha wrote: Yes, let's go back to 2003. The ISP I worked for at that time was one of the first in the country (if not the first) to host Akamai's caching servers. Ten years later I worked on a project where Akamai caching was embedded in subscriber management

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

- On Oct 11, 2021, at 12:58 AM, Mark Tinka mark@tinka.africa wrote: Hi, > However, in an era where content is making a push to get as close to the > eyeballs as possible, kit getting cheaper and faster because of merchant > silicon, and abundance of aggregated capacity at exchange points,

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Hello, > Providing access is mostly fixed costs, as there are very few consumables in > running a network. > > IP transit costs aren't an issue, since Netflix will do settlement free > peering. > > This leaves the internal network of SK Telecom as the problem and

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

st. Providing access is mostly fixed costs, as there are very few consumables in running a network. IP transit costs aren't an issue, since Netflix will do settlement free peering. This leaves the internal network of SK Telecom as the problem and cost center. There would have been no mar

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 17:39, Jared Brown wrote: Since we aren't talking about random pirated content, but p2p streaming from a major content provider it would obviously be point & click. Yes, in which case Jane + Thatho don't need to worry about device compatibility, especially if the device is

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Mark Tinka wrote: >> Well, yes. Or you could just stream content that is guaranteed to be >> compatible with the device used. > > People on this list would bother to check compatibility. > > Jane + Thatho just point & click. Since we aren't talking about random pirated content, but p2p

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 17:13, Jared Brown wrote: That's not how it works. Several streaming BitTorrent clients specifically request blocks in order so that you can start watching immediately. Not that you need a special client, it works pretty well with the standard client as well on a well

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Mark Tinka wrote: > Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I know BitTorrent to > work is the file is downloaded to disk, unarchived and then listed as > ready to watch. That's not how it works. Several streaming BitTorrent clients specifically request blocks in order so that you can

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 22:57, Matthew Walster wrote: Ignoring for the moment that P2P is inherently difficult to stream with (you're usually downloading chunks in parallel, and with devices like Smart TVs etc you don't really have the storage to do so anyway) there's also the problem that things like

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 14:20, Jason Iannone wrote: Isn't this a problem with legacy peering agreements in today's internet? The same thing happened between Netflix, Level3, and Verizon a few years ago. The legacy concept of settlement-free peering is based on traffic forwarding parity. If what I

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 22:05, Matthew Petach wrote: Let's check back in 2026, and see if someone's become fantastically successful doing this or not.  ;) I have to say, your idea is quite fantastical. I'm not sure I have enough brain cells to consider how it will work, remembering that vCPE's were

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Isn't this a problem with legacy peering agreements in today's internet? The same thing happened between Netflix, Level3, and Verizon a few years ago. The legacy concept of settlement-free peering is based on traffic forwarding parity. If what I forward to you roughly matches what you forward

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 13:57 , Matthew Walster wrote: > > > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 at 21:05, Matthew Petach > wrote: > I think it would be absolutely *stunning* for content providers > to turn the model on its head; use a bittorrent like model for > caching and

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 13:05 , Matthew Petach wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:01 AM Mark Tinka wrote: > However, in an era where content is making a push to get as close to the > eyeballs as possible, kit getting cheaper and faster because of merchant > silicon, and abundance of

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 at 21:05, Matthew Petach wrote: > I think it would be absolutely *stunning* for content providers > to turn the model on its head; use a bittorrent like model for > caching and serving content out of subscribers homes at > recalcitrant ISPs, so that data doesn't come from

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

a consumer paying for my 4k stream, I know who I'm calling when it > drops to 480 and it ain't Netflix. The eyeballs are most definitely not > happy. > > Mike > I apologize for that. I was tired after two back-to-back days of board meetings, and I missed putting a clear sarcasm m

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:01 AM Mark Tinka wrote: > However, in an era where content is making a push to get as close to the > eyeballs as possible, kit getting cheaper and faster because of merchant > silicon, and abundance of aggregated capacity at exchange points, can we > leverage the

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Netflix. The eyeballs are most definitely not happy. Mike

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

t they are failing to deliver onto the content provider that is trying to live up to their agreement with their user. IIRC, Netflix charges extra for a 4K level subscription these days, so an end user that paid for 4K service and got 240p because their ISP managed to force Netflix into a lower bitr

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 00:32 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/11/21 02:58, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> That’s irrelevant to what he is saying. >> >> What he’s saying (and he’s 100% correct) is that any tax a corporation pays >> is collected from their customers one way or another. >> >> A

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> I am almost sure Netflix have some degree of presence in South Korea. What > I'm not sure about is what else SK wants them to do beyond that. They’ve made it pretty clear… They want Netflix to pay their protection^wbandwidth charges. >> And for the record, not only have I

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 00:01 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/11/21 00:31, Geoff Huston wrote: > >> In many environments, the words we use to describe this form of price >> setting are generally prefixed by the adjective “illegal” :-) > > Indeed - colluding is generally frowned upon, in

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 17:26, Niels Bakker wrote: I don't think that's being entirely fair. Netflix in plenty places differentiates its subscriptions based partly on video resolution: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/24926/us Some people will definitely care enough to sign up for a more

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

* mark@tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) [Mon 11 Oct 2021, 17:18 CEST]: To be fair, Jane + Thatho don't care about video resolution. I don't think that's being entirely fair. Netflix in plenty places differentiates its subscriptions based partly on video resolution: https://help.netflix.com/en/node

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 8:11 PM Doug Barton wrote: > On 10/1/21 7:45 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > > > The reason that Netflix doesn't want to do it is the same reason that > ISPs don't want to charge their customers what it really costs to > provide them access. > SO: In my pa

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

pens to have peering with SKB, and largely inbound traffic flows. Wouldn't it make sense for you to reach out to a player like Netflix, and offer to host content cache boxes that happen to only answer requests coming from SKB IP space, at a price well below what SKB was going to charge the conten

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 00:10, Niels Bakker wrote: Sounds like you think SK should be paying Netflix for bringing their content all the way from the US to the Korean peninsula. That's some expensive wet cable being used there. Do we know whether Netflix don't already have OCA's and/or local peering

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/10/21 23:57, Sabri Berisha wrote: I have worked for ISPs. And I remember the late 90s. Bandwidth was $35/mbit on average, at least for the outfit where I was. Consumers paid roughly $40 for their DSL connections, which at the time went up to 2Mbit depending on the age of the copper and

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

And to answer Matthew's question, I don't know what "a lot" is. I think > the market should determine that as well. > The market *is* determining that at the moment...but not in the direction people expect. Instead, it's creating a new market for intermediaries; imagine you're an ey

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 02:58, Owen DeLong wrote: That’s irrelevant to what he is saying. What he’s saying (and he’s 100% correct) is that any tax a corporation pays is collected from their customers one way or another. A corporation has no other source of income with which to pay its taxes beyond

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 03:05, Owen DeLong wrote: Which is the kind of ignorant view of the situation that creates this problem in the first place. It’s not for “no $$”, it’s for all the $$ they got from all those 100Mbps links that they are delivering those Tbps of traffic to. If the aggregate $$

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

don't have to worry about them flooding backbone links. I am almost sure Netflix have some degree of presence in South Korea. What I'm not sure about is what else SK wants them to do beyond that. And to answer Matthew's question, I don't know what "a lot" is. I think the mark

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 01:43, Keith Medcalf wrote: This is blatantly incorrect. The bits were payed for by the requestor. You totally missed my dig... I was being sarcastic. Mark.

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 00:31, Geoff Huston wrote: In many environments, the words we use to describe this form of price setting are generally prefixed by the adjective “illegal” :-) Indeed - colluding is generally frowned upon, in which case we are doomed to the current model, and may the best man

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 10, 2021, at 13:21 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/10/21 22:13, Michael Thomas wrote: > >> Isn't that what Erlang numbers are all about? My suspicion is that after >> about 100Mbs most people wouldn't notice the difference in most cases. My >> ISP is about 25Mbs on a good day

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 10, 2021, at 13:18 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/10/21 22:10, Geoff Huston wrote: > >> I have to agree with Doug Barton's earlier observation is that the base >> problem is that the ISPs are using a flawed business model and they don't >> want to charge their customers what

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

>> (in the same way that corporations don't pay taxes, their customers do),... > > > Many a company pays corporate tax, which is separate from the income tax they > pay for compensation to their staff. > > Of course, YMMV depending on where you live. That’s irrelevant to what he is saying.

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 10, 2021, at 12:08 , Doug Barton wrote: > > On 10/1/21 7:45 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: >> The reason Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, e.t.c., all built their own >> global backbones is because of this nonsense that SK Broadband is trying to >> pull

RE: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Sunday, 10 October, 2021 14:21, Mark Tinka wrote: >They are looking at the aggregate Gbps or Tbps of traffic that >BigContent is seeking to deliver across their network, for "no $$". This is blatantly incorrect. The bits were payed for by the requestor. BigContent does not "send bits" to

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Netflix has programs for which many ISPs - even smaller are able to build a cache system. This may help the ISP who filed suit here - That being said - Our Consultancy has helped a number of smaller ISPs build using the Open Connect options - however for many they cannot justify the want from

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On 11 Oct 2021, at 7:18 am, Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/10/21 22:10, Geoff Huston wrote: > >> I have to agree with Doug Barton's earlier observation is that the base >> problem is that the ISPs are using a flawed business model and they don't >> want to charge their customers what

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

bad option. Whether "something" is a local cache box, peering, money, or is something I think that the market should determine. Sounds like you think SK should be paying Netflix for bringing their content all the way from the US to the Korean peninsula. That's some

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

- On Oct 10, 2021, at 2:42 PM, Doug Barton do...@dougbarton.us wrote: Hi, > And for the record, not only have I never worked for an ISP, I was > saying all the way back in the late '90s that the oversubscription > business model (which almost always includes punishing users who > actually

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

paying them. Like all other expenses, they are factored into the cost of goods/services sold. so the people on that ISP who are creating the increased demand would be (indirectly) paying for the increased capacity. That's actually fairer for the other customers who aren't Netflix subscribers

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/10/21 22:13, Michael Thomas wrote: Isn't that what Erlang numbers are all about? My suspicion is that after about 100Mbs most people wouldn't notice the difference in most cases. My ISP is about 25Mbs on a good day (DSL) and it serves our needs fine and have never run into bandwidth

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/10/21 22:10, Geoff Huston wrote: I have to agree with Doug Barton's earlier observation is that the base problem is that the ISPs are using a flawed business model and they don't want to charge their customers what it really costs to provide them with high speed access, nor do they

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/10/21 12:57 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: On 10/10/21 21:33, Matthew Petach wrote: If you sell a service for less than it costs to provide, simply based on the hopes that people won't actually *use* it, that's called "gambling", and I have very little sympathy for businesses that gamble and

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

;strict warning" to KT over its actions. You have to wonder if the major difference some nine years later is that while Samsung is a Korean business, Netflix is a ‘foreign’ entity, and perhaps the broadband ISPs feel that the Korean legal actions in this round will have a different outco

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/10/21 21:33, Matthew Petach wrote: If you sell a service for less than it costs to provide, simply based on the hopes that people won't actually *use* it, that's called "gambling", and I have very little sympathy for businesses that gamble and lose. You arrived at the crux of the

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 12:12 PM Doug Barton wrote: > On 10/1/21 7:45 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > > The reason Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, e.t.c., all built their > > own global backbones is because of this nonsense that SK Broadband is > > trying to pull with N

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

oogle's YouTube, but the two are the only ones to not pay network usage fees, which other content providers such as Amazon, Apple and Facebook are paying, SK said." Which has emboldened SK to go after the bigger fish. Prior to the popularity of "House Of Cards", Netflix w

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/1/21 7:45 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: The reason Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, e.t.c., all built their own global backbones is because of this nonsense that SK Broadband is trying to pull with Netflix. At some point, the content folk will get fed up, and go build it themselves. What

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

the Korean equivalent is) with costs and attorneys’ fees awarded to Netflix. I’m hoping that this will also send a clear message to other ISPs contemplating such extortive behavior. OTOH, I admit I will watch in amusement if SK’s customers trying to play Netflix videos are only able to watch in 480p after

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/1/21 18:31, Tom Hill wrote: Many (most?) route servers provide little control over who your routes are advertised toward. This can be fun where DDoS is concerned. I've used some that did have deny-list controls for ASNs, fail to consistently apply those rules. Again, that was a 'fun'

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/1/21 18:05, Laura Smith wrote: Speaking as one of those smaller ISPs willing to do whatever it takes, perhaps you could answer me this riddle. - PoP in one of your "half-decent data centres" ... tick. - Connnection to one of your "exchange point" ... tick. - $certain_large_cdn

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Thanks for your insight Matt, much appreciated.

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 11:27 AM Joshua Pool via NANOG wrote: > [...] > One could also note that it's 2021 and Cogent and Hurricane Electric are > still not peered. > Bugger. You're right. I forgot to add "stupid human ego issues" to my list of reasons why direct peering requests get ignored

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

I wasn't aware of that, but I think that's perfect! And completely reasonable on Netflix (or any content provider's part). I'm sure Verizon's wordsmiths would argue that the "crowding" happened upstream of the Verizon network, but if stated another way (like "the paths

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 9:08 AM Laura Smith via NANOG wrote: > > > The bad news now, is, there are plenty of many, small, local > > and regional ISP's who are willing to do whatever it takes to > > work with the content providers. All that's required is some > > network, a half-decent data centre

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

I think instances where the end ISP is peered directly with Netflix and demands more money is not valid at all. That should be normal cost of doing business to increase capacity as the consumer demand grows. The topic of interest is instances where the ISP is not directly peered with Netflix

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/1/21 07:19, Blake Hudson wrote: It's about time Netflix played chicken with one of these ISPs and stopped offering service  (or offered limited service) to the ISPs that try to extort them and other content providers: Sorry, your service provider does not believe in net neutrality

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/1/2021 11:23 AM, Sean Donelan wrote: In the old days, postal services used to charge the recipient of a letter to deliver the letter. Then stamps were invented, and postal services charged the sender of the letter, and the recipent got free delivery. Now there is free-shipping,

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 01/10/2021 17:05, Laura Smith via NANOG wrote: > - $certain_large_cdn publishes routes on route server ? Nope. Many (most?) route servers provide little control over who your routes are advertised toward. This can be fun where DDoS is concerned. I've used some that did have deny-list controls

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Having done peering for many $big_boys_club and $small_isps, it always comes down to politics, $$ and time. The balance may change but end of day its those variables and its a painful game some days. From all sides :( -jim On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 1:07 PM Laura Smith via NANOG wrote: > > >

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

In the old days, postal services used to charge the recipient of a letter to deliver the letter. Then stamps were invented, and postal services charged the sender of the letter, and the recipent got free delivery. Now there is free-shipping, and pre-paid return envelopes for DVDs. Of

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> The bad news now, is, there are plenty of many, small, local > and regional ISP's who are willing to do whatever it takes to > work with the content providers. All that's required is some > network, a half-decent data centre and an exchange point. Gone > are the days where customers clamored

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