Data centers in used nuclear bunkers aren't new - www.thebunker.net
has done that for a decade in the UK. They found that having a
cool-looking site made it easy to sell to bankers who wanted
reassurance about physical security, and at least with the computer
technology of the time it was easy to
Gadi,
I can't help that you need a few nights away in a lovely Swiss Hotel
in order to help those cynical thoughts lift:
http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,24732642-5014090,00.html
That looks too noisy. This seems to be a little more upscale.
pardon me for resurrecting this topic...
For sites that are built in caves, how do they deal with cabling ?
In the pretty pictures of the swedish site, there didn't seem to be an
obvious raised floor. And it appeared to be solid concrete floor between
the wings containing the systems. And no
--On onsdag, onsdag 3 dec 2008 10.47.28 -0500 Jean-François Mezei
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
pardon me for resurrecting this topic...
For sites that are built in caves, how do they deal with cabling ?
Like any datacenter. Raceways on top of racks or under the floor. _Proper_
datacentres in
--On onsdag, onsdag 3 dec 2008 18.29.54 +0100 Måns Nilsson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the pretty pictures of the swedish site, there didn't seem to be an
obvious raised floor.
There is a raised floor, iirc.
There is a raised floor. Have a look at
Gadi,
I can't help that you need a few nights away in a lovely Swiss Hotel
in order to help those cynical thoughts lift:
http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,24732642-5014090,00.html
:-)
MMC
On 29/11/2008, at 2:05 PM, Gadi Evron wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Howard C. Berkowitz
On 1 Dec 2008, at 19:19, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
An alternative would be to run a microwave link to shore, but I'm
not sure I would want to bet the farm on the mechanics necessary to
keep the dish aligned.
Actually this is pretty straightforward. Systems exist for getting
rock
Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Deepak Jain wrote:
3) No one cares if the server farm is blast proof (it isn't), if the
connectivity in/out of it gets blasted (submessage: silos were meant
to deliver one thing, datacenters aren't in the same operational
model once they need
--On måndag, måndag 1 dec 2008 18.19.14 -0500 Deepak Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
1) This datacenter is only 12,000 sq ft. (submessage: who cares?)
For some things, it is OK. It is not the only one, only the best marketed
one.
2) The generators are underground. A leak in their exhaust
On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 10:33 +0100, Måns Nilsson wrote:
4) With all of that fog and plant life, I wonder how they critically
manage humidity. [Or if they even do].
I have been told by people who have been working with the construction of
this very site that it is an unusually dry cave. It
On Nov 28, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Jean-François Mezei wrote:
Måns Nilsson wrote:
Exactly where is of course known in the business, but not so well
that it
is OK to post their locations on Nanog.
The problem with this mentality is that it does not deter those
wishing
to do harm to the data
On Nov 28, 2008, at 8:34 AM, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/11/14/the-worlds-most-super-designed-data-center-fit-for-a-james-bond-villain/
(No, I don't know if it's real or not.)
--Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
It has become de
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On 2 dec 2008, at 00.47, Randy Bush wrote:
Despite the huge amount of content which transcends the language
barrier [tip of the hat wbn], it is worth noting that there is
a non-trivial amount of language-/culture-specific traffic that
doesn't need
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 11:19:36AM -0500, Jeremy Jackson wrote:
Seems like dry-ice was used to make the tropical fog in the photos,
not water poured over hot rocks like a sauna/bath house.
I've tried to avoid stating the obvious reading through all this funny
thread, but I can't help it now.
The Anarcat wrote:
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 11:19:36AM -0500, Jeremy Jackson wrote:
Seems like dry-ice was used to make the tropical fog in the photos,
not water poured over hot rocks like a sauna/bath house.
I've tried to avoid stating the obvious reading through all this funny
thread, but I
Maybe it isn't dry ice Maybe it is from liquid oxygen, in which case it
better be a smoke free workplace.
--
Brian Raaen
Network Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tuesday 02 December 2008, Jay Hennigan wrote:
The Anarcat wrote:
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 11:19:36AM
On Dec 2, 2008, at 2:25 PM, Brian Raaen wrote:
Maybe it isn't dry ice Maybe it is from liquid oxygen, in which
case it
better be a smoke free workplace.
This is of course off-off-topic, but I would suspect the room
temperature ultrasonic
misters, not dry ice or wood smoke.
Marshall Eubanks wrote:
On Dec 2, 2008, at 2:25 PM, Brian Raaen wrote:
Maybe it isn't dry ice Maybe it is from liquid oxygen, in which
case it
better be a smoke free workplace.
This is of course off-off-topic, but I would suspect the room
temperature ultrasonic
misters, not dry ice
Marshall wrote:
This is of course off-off-topic, but I would suspect the room
temperature ultrasonic
misters, not dry ice or wood smoke.
Regards
Marshall
Concur.
As anyone who works with air conditioning knows, ultrasonic are
the low maintenance option for your humidifier units anyways.
A
-the-top data center
Marshall Eubanks wrote:
On Dec 2, 2008, at 2:25 PM, Brian Raaen wrote:
Maybe it isn't dry ice Maybe it is from liquid oxygen, in which
case it
better be a smoke free workplace.
This is of course off-off-topic, but I would suspect the room
temperature ultrasonic
Marshall wrote:
This is of course off-off-topic, but I would suspect the room
temperature ultrasonic
misters, not dry ice or wood smoke.
Regards
Marshall
Concur.
As anyone who works with air conditioning knows, ultrasonic are
the low maintenance option for your humidifier units
Johnny writes:
This discussion about plants, waterfalls and humidity is getting more
and more off-tropic...
Humidity is not off topic for a general or specific datacenter
conversation - it's a fairly routine issue in facilities.
NANOG isn't facilities focused but I think that it comes up
enough
From: Marshall Eubanks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 15:15
This is of course off-off-topic, but I would suspect the room
temperature ultrasonic
misters, not dry ice or wood smoke.
Still off-topic, but I hope they used distilled water. If the water has a
medium
George William Herbert wrote:
Johnny writes:
This discussion about plants, waterfalls and humidity is getting more
and more off-tropic...
Humidity is not off topic for a general or specific datacenter
conversation - it's a fairly routine issue in facilities.
NANOG isn't facilities focused
This discussion about plants, waterfalls and humidity is getting more
and more off-tropic...
Humidity is not off topic for a general or specific datacenter
conversation - it's a fairly routine issue in facilities.
*woosh*
tropic... not topic. It's a joke. :)
D'oh. Serves me right for
Speaking as a Datacenter Manager who (believe it or not) at one time was an
Art Director, I have to say that the ambience in those photographs, in
the form of fog, odd/colored lighting, etc. was certainly created at the
time of the photo shoot by an Art Director ... with delusions (illusions)
chuck goolsbee wrote:
would look, other than the granite walls
On the subject of suitability problems, unless there is good air
circulation in these bunkers from the outside, radon seepage from the
surrounding granite has the potential to cause a lot of health problems for
any unlucky punter who
Deepak Jain wrote:
I bet the military or emergency services can establish a 10km fiber
stretch in a few hours. Replacing some telecom hw and set it up from
scratch would probably take weeks (I'm not talking about a single
router
here).
But we aren't talking about the military here, are
But we aren't talking about the military here, are we? We are talking
about an ISP on an ISP forum.
Yes but in a disaster scenario where critical communication links
are down the military would respond and reestablish the links, if for
nothing else to re establish situational
On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:26:51 EST, The Anarcat said:
Am I the only one thinking that shady lights, tropical fog, creepy
tunnels, blue/colored lights, and *waterfalls* are *bad* things in a
datacenter?
Well, across the hall we have:
Photo-op version:
On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 21:49 +, Nick Hilliard wrote:
chuck goolsbee wrote:
would look, other than the granite walls
On the subject of suitability problems, unless there is good air
circulation in these bunkers from the outside, radon seepage from the
surrounding granite has the
On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:58 AM, Måns Nilsson wrote:
--On söndag, söndag 30 nov 2008 23.05.01 -0500 Patrick W. Gilmore
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In Sweden, the reason to not choose NetNod (and to go with the smaller
exchangepoints) is price and only price. No swedish ISP I know of has
stated that
On Dec 1, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Randy Bush wrote:
I don't think any IXP can become a significant player on the Internet
today by only attracting participants from the country in question.
netnod is very successful. i guess they must operate from more than
sweden, then, eh?
NetNod is
some go to sweden for the weather. some go for netnode. netnode does
not go to them. and yes, netnod is bunkered up the ying yang. qed.
randy
On Dec 1, 2008, at 9:30 AM, Randy Bush wrote:
some go to sweden for the weather. some go for netnode. netnode does
not go to them. and yes, netnod is bunkered up the ying yang. qed.
By your logic, every IXP which has any participants is a good model
and cannot be improved. An obvious
--On måndag, måndag 1 dec 2008 09.08.09 -0500 Patrick W. Gilmore
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think any IXP can become a significant player on the Internet
today by only attracting participants from the country in question. The
Internet is not bound by political borders. (Usually. :)
On Dec 1, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Måns Nilsson wrote:
End of day, an IXP is not some magical thing. It is an ethernet
switch
allowing multiple networks to exchange traffic more easily than
direct
interconnection - and that is all it should be. It should not be
mission
critical. Treating it
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 23:05 -0500, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
Now compare that to forcing every single participant to use unknown
fiber paths into an unknown facility. When are these fibers groomed,
and onto which unknown paths? Which fiber maintenance schedules might
impact me
On Nov 28, 2008, at 6:34 AM, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/11/14/the-worlds-most-super-designed-data-center-fit-for-a-james-bond-villain/
(No, I don't know if it's real or not.)
I recall visiting something of this sort a couple
years back..
On a related noted, some
--On måndag, måndag 1 dec 2008 11.53.58 -0500 Patrick W. Gilmore
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Dec 1, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Måns Nilsson wrote:
End of day, an IXP is not some magical thing. It is an ethernet
switch
allowing multiple networks to exchange traffic more easily than
direct
Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
End of day, an IXP is not some magical thing. It is an ethernet
switch allowing multiple networks to exchange traffic more easily than
direct interconnection - and that is all it should be. It should not
be mission critical. Treating it as such raises the
On 1-Dec-08, at 10:27 AM, Danny McPherson wrote:
On a related noted, some have professed that adapting old
ships into data centers would provide eco-friendly secure
data center solutions.
Your data connection to shore is going to be tenuous at best. One good
blow strong enough to make you
On Dec 1, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Jean-François Mezei wrote:
Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
End of day, an IXP is not some magical thing. It is an ethernet
switch allowing multiple networks to exchange traffic more easily
than
direct interconnection - and that is all it should be. It should not
be
On Dec 1, 2008, at 2:19 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
On 1-Dec-08, at 10:27 AM, Danny McPherson wrote:
On a related noted, some have professed that adapting old
ships into data centers would provide eco-friendly secure
data center solutions.
Your data connection to shore is going to be tenuous
Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
On Dec 1, 2008, at 2:19 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
On 1-Dec-08, at 10:27 AM, Danny McPherson wrote:
On a related noted, some have professed that adapting old
ships into data centers would provide eco-friendly secure
data center solutions.
Your data connection to
Not if the ship is literally encased in concrete at the shore.
Which solves all your other problems as well.
But that's not a ship, it's a building.
There are even examples of actual free-floating ships which have
been stable for a decade or more.
And many counter-examples.
--lyndon
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Patrick,
On 1 dec 2008, at 02.33, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
On Nov 28, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Jean-François Mezei wrote:
The thing about a carrier hotel is that it cannot be a secret
location
On Monday 01 December 2008 13:27:30 Danny McPherson wrote:
On a related noted, some have professed that adapting old
ships into data centers would provide eco-friendly secure
data center solutions.
You mean something akin to Sealand's HavenCo? Yes, I know that's an old fort,
and not a
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:03:39 -0500
Lamar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Monday 01 December 2008 13:27:30 Danny McPherson wrote:
On a related noted, some have professed that adapting old
ships into data centers would provide eco-friendly secure
data center solutions.
You mean
Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
HavenCo, which ran a datacenter on the nation of Sealand, is
no longer operating there:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/25/havenco/
--Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
If you do a bit more research on that one, it never got
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 16:34, Steven M. Bellovin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
HavenCo, which ran a datacenter on the nation of Sealand, is
no longer operating there:
Which is the same story for most (if not all) of these hype-driven
bullet-proof data centers.
I recall a .com CEO espousing the
On Monday 01 December 2008 16:34:26 Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:03:39 -0500
Lamar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You mean something akin to Sealand's HavenCo? Yes, I know that's an
old fort, and not a ship, but a similar concept at least.
HavenCo, which ran a datacenter
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Internet can be mission critical. (Well, not really, but it's =20
trying.) And for something mission critical, a single point, no =20
matter how well reinforced, is not good enough.
It may not be mission critical for any one particular client, but when
you
Apologies to the list.
I didn't know whether to fork this into a couple of replies, or just run with
it. I chose the latter.
1) This datacenter is only 12,000 sq ft. (submessage: who cares?)
2) The generators are underground. A leak in their exhaust system kills
everyone -- worse, a leak in
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 08:14:20PM +0100, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote:
[snip]
On 1 dec 2008, at 15.08, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
[snip]
I don't think any IXP can become a significant player on the
Internet today by only attracting participants from the country in
question. The Internet is
Despite the huge amount of content which transcends the language
barrier [tip of the hat wbn], it is worth noting that there is
a non-trivial amount of language-/culture-specific traffic that
doesn't need or want to traverse globally (viz massive IXes large
xTTH deplyoments in otherwise
On 28-Nov-08, at 7:35 PM, Gadi Evron wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:
It seems that all these cases are more under the bottom than over
the top.
Every couple of years there is a story about some anti virus
company, data center, or whatever running out of an old
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Deepak Jain wrote:
3) No one cares if the server farm is blast proof (it isn't), if the
connectivity in/out of it gets blasted (submessage: silos were meant to
deliver one thing, datacenters aren't in the same operational model once
they need connectivity to the outside
On Fri, 2008-11-28 at 16:19 -0500, William Allen Simpson wrote:
At one point some time ago, on NANOG we discussed putting exchanges in old
minuteman silos. (so long ago a quick Google didn't find it -- where are all
the old NANOG archives?)
Fault free datacenters include neither people, nor computers, nor
connectivity, nor HVAC, nor electricity. If you can eliminate those
things you will have a 100% uptime datacenter.
Andrew
Is this the network equivalent of Yin and Yang, or Darkness and Light
being the same?
Perhaps it is like
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Patrick W. Gilmore) [Mon 01 Dec 2008, 02:34 CET]:
On Nov 28, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Jean-François Mezei wrote:
The advantage of this swedish data centre is that even if its location
is well known, it is pretty hard to harm the building. You can't run a
truck full of explosives
On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:50 PM, Niels Bakker wrote:
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Patrick W. Gilmore) [Mon 01 Dec 2008, 02:34 CET]:
On Nov 28, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Jean-François Mezei wrote:
The advantage of this swedish data centre is that even if its
location is well known, it is pretty hard to harm the
--On fredag, fredag 28 nov 2008 08.34.33 -0500 Steven M. Bellovin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/11/14/the-worlds-most-super-designed-data-c
enter-fit-for-a-james-bond-villain/ (No, I don't know if it's real or
not.)
It is.
The server space is outside the blastproof
Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/11/14/the-worlds-most-super-designed-data-center-fit-for-a-james-bond-villain/
(No, I don't know if it's real or not.)
more images:
http://www.archdaily.com/9257/pionen-%E2%80%93-white-mountain-albert-france-lanord-architects/
cheers,
Craig Holland wrote:
Just me, or is showing the floorplan not the typical behavior of a
super-secure anything?
You mean, security through obscurity?
--Patrick
It's the double-dog-dare. :)
Scott
-Original Message-
From: Craig Holland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:42 AM
To: Måns Nilsson; Steven M. Bellovin; NANOG
Subject: Re: an over-the-top data center
Just me, or is showing the floorplan not the typical
--On fredag, fredag 28 nov 2008 17.10.14 + Simon Waters
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm thinking physical security is over done in some data centers. Sure it
is a great idea to make sure no one steals the hardware, but much beyond
that and allowing in expected personnel only, it soon gets
Måns Nilsson wrote:
These data centres are designed to Swedish military command center
specifications (not like Cheyenne Mountain but significantly better than,
say, a Minuteman site)
At one point some time ago, on NANOG we discussed putting exchanges in old
minuteman silos. (so long ago a
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, William Allen Simpson wrote:
At one point some time ago, on NANOG we discussed putting exchanges in old
minuteman silos. (so long ago a quick Google didn't find it -- where are
all
the old NANOG archives?)
http://www.irbs.net/internet/nanog/9708/0159.html
On 2008-11-28, at 16:04, Jean-François Mezei wrote:
If you look at Toronto, the main carrier hotel is quite famous at 151
Front Street, very near to the main train station, convention centre
etc
(aka: right at the core of the downtown). People who do not know about
the internet
-Original Message-
From: Steven M. Bellovin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:35 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: an over-the-top data center
http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/11/14/the-worlds-most-super-desi
gned-data-center-fit-for-a-james-bond-villain/
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 7:03 AM, Buhrmaster, Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One could consider purchasing the underground tunnels
in downtown London that BT is selling to build a
competing over-the-top data center.
That's a below the surface datacenter, innit?
srs (ok, I'll get my coat)
Buhrmaster, Gary wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Steven M. Bellovin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:35 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: an over-the-top data center
http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/11/14/the-worlds-most-super-desi
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:
It seems that all these cases are more under the bottom than over the top.
Every couple of years there is a story about some anti virus company, data
center, or whatever running out of an old nuclear bunker/military
base/middle of no where.
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