Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Speaking of dial up... I remember on a trip I got the hotel sometime after 2am (bad weather, bad flight). I was trying to dial out from hotel - 9 to get an outside line, then "pause" and then 1 for long distance and 202 for the area code. I mistyped the phone number or something, and I was

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Then call waiting came out and would disconnect the session sometimes. That sucked ass. > On Feb 17, 2020, at 16:37, Scott Weeks wrote: > >  > > I can't help myself... :) > > > > My mother in the 1980s: "no one can ever call us because the phone line is > always busy" > > Me with an

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

I can't help myself... :) My mother in the 1980s: "no one can ever call us because the phone line is always busy" Me with an Osborne 1 and a 300 baud modem: "We need a second phone line!" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1) My mother: "That's too expensive. Quit clogging up the

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

First non-POTS was an Ascend Pipeline 50. I may even still have it somewhere. -Ben Cannon CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC b...@6by7.net > On Feb 17, 2020, at 12:07 PM, Brian wrote: > >> On Feb 17, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Gene LeDuc wrote: > > Does this thread make

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

> On Feb 17, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Gene LeDuc wrote: Does this thread make me not only think about the days of old, but also makes me feel older! Not going back as far as some here but around 1993ish... My first connection back in the day was a shell account I was given as consultant and reseller

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 17/Feb/20 22:43, Clayton Zekelman wrote: > > A PRI was and still is 23B+D, not 24 2B+D lines. In Africa (and much of Europe and Asia, I believe), our PRI's were E1's, which was 30B+2D (CCS and CAS protocols), for a total carriage bandwidth of 2.048Mbps. For E1, timeslot 0 is used for

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

A PRI was and still is 23B+D, not 24 2B+D lines. 23B+D (ISDN PRI or Primary Rate Interface) is 23x64 kbps bearer channels and a 64 kbps Delta channel carried on a B8ZS T1 You could carry additional groups of 24 B channels using NFAS, or Non-Facility Associated Signalling where the D

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

gleduc> I remember that TI luggable - that sucker weighed a ton! U of I used those in the libraries. I remember looking up books for inter-library/lincoln trail and handing the printout to students. Problem was that clay or whatever it was that made the paper worked didn't last for more than a

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

I remember that TI luggable - that sucker weighed a ton! I dragged it from the lab to my dorm a few times to log in remotely, but carrying it on a bicycle was a dicey deal and I got over the novelty pretty quickly. I'd forgotten who made it until you mentioned it - good memories! Gene On

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Wasn’t that CNID where PRIs ignored the flag set not to present the data? On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 15:01 wrote: > > On January 27, 2020 at 22:57 ma...@isc.org (Mark Andrews) wrote: > > The hardware support was 2B+D but you could definitely just use a > single B. 56k vs 64k depended on where

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Back in 1973 I was hired by Tymshare to "hack" Tymnet and some of the various systems (XDS 940, PDP-10s) - I was 15.  Tymshare provided me with a Teletype ASR-33 (with the built in tape punch and reader).  I had an AJ 300 baud acoustic coupler.  We had a second phone line installed, 'cause my

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

So it was YOUR fault the phone at the Fotomat was always busy when I tried calling to check if my prints were done? At 01:20 PM 17/02/2020, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote: When I got my next computer (and first portable) shortly thereafter (a TRS Model 100) I got acoustic cups for it, and

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

> On Feb 17, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Gene LeDuc wrote: > > I was a student worker at a computer lab at USC in the 70s and a buddy had a > system operator job at ISI in Marina Del Rey. One day he connected to his > office from my lab via a 300baud acoustic modem and then got on the ARPA-NET. >

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

I was a student worker at a computer lab at USC in the 70s and a buddy had a system operator job at ISI in Marina Del Rey. One day he connected to his office from my lab via a 300baud acoustic modem and then got on the ARPA-NET. From there he connected to a system called ATLAS in the UK. I

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Ok it's Sunday... The first time I got on the internet was around 1977. A friend dropped by the lab I worked in at Harvard and wondered if I had an MIT ITS account and I said no wasn't even sure what it was other than a time sharing system at MIT. So we had a modem and dumb terminal and

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 29/Jan/20 02:22, Paul Nash wrote: > One of our early customers was a group of students who wanted to start a > small dial ISP nearby. We gave them service, bootstrapping what became our > biggest competitor, Internet Solutions (now part of DiData, who never did ask > for their router

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 26/Jan/20 06:59, Karl Auer wrote: > > You tell that to young folk these days and they don't believe you... No use. They couldn't describe a cassette if it came with the manual; nor a Nokia 5110 phone for that matter:-). Mark.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 26/Jan/20 06:58, Joly MacFie wrote: > IIRC that 64k was in fact 56k with 8k for overhead.  > > I had one, and it would kick in a second channel if you pushed it, for > a whopping 112k. Metered, came out to about $500/mo. My first ISDN experience was in Swaziland, 2003. There weren't many

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 26/Jan/20 06:29, Aaron Gould wrote: > > I love the symmetric ~10 gig speed test to put it into perspective for > how far we’ve come….also the 3 ms ping result.  Ain’t it great > You laugh, but it's true :-). We stopped entertaining this kind of nonesense from customers that don't understand

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS)

On 1/28/20 4:22 PM, Paul Nash wrote: Carrying on with the “first Internet connection” thread: I forget how I found out about Usenet and UUCP email (lost in the mosts of time). I ran a store and forward dial-up link from South Africa to DDSW1 in Chicago (Hi Karl! Thanks!). I cobbled

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

My first internet connection was some generic 2400baud.I had software support for MNP 5, which probably claims speeds up to 9600 bps? {perfomance in the lab with pretty cooperative factors like noise when squirrels eat through the protective coatings, and then chew up the actual wire, and at least

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Right?? That’s in a customer’s office building too… I’ve got the same connection on my workstation of course. I actually have another test that I don’t normally share. It’s NOT fake. I found out that the speedtest algorithm rounds to the nearest whole millisecond. And that it will round

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Carrying on with the “first Internet connection” thread: I forget how I found out about Usenet and UUCP email (lost in the mosts of time). I ran a store and forward dial-up link from South Africa to DDSW1 in Chicago (Hi Karl! Thanks!). I cobbled together a package with a DOS-based mail

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

So to add my two stories: I provided the Idea and a whole bunch of time/labor/etc to start a dialup ISP in our hometown back in 1994. I remember having a big debate on whether to bring in a single 56K leased line or 128K fractional T1. We went with the Fractional T1 just because it could be

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

> On Jan 28, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Paul Ebersman wrote: > > wsimpson> When we first designed PPP in the late '80s to replace SLIP > wsimpson> and SLFP, it was expected to run at 300 bps and scale up, so > wsimpson> the timeouts reflected that. When I designed PPP over ISDN, > wsimpson> added

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On Tuesday, 28 January, 2020 16:53, "Paul Ebersman" said: > SLIP and PPP were quite... robust. Some UCB folks managed to get SLIP > over tin can and string. Two acoustic coupler 150b modems, 2 8oz V8 cans > and waxed cotton thread.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Imagine the racket! Is anyone connected with PPP over OC3? I'm just curious. I don't have that sort of connection myself. I'm just on dumbass DOCSIS. My first connection was PPP over the analogue PSTN. On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 09:53:26 -0700 Paul Ebersman wrote: > wsimpson> When we first designed

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

wsimpson> When we first designed PPP in the late '80s to replace SLIP wsimpson> and SLFP, it was expected to run at 300 bps and scale up, so wsimpson> the timeouts reflected that. When I designed PPP over ISDN, wsimpson> added language to allow faster retransmission. SLIP and PPP were quite...

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

I had a USR 2400 baud external modem. Local ISP offered PPP service as well. We also had a few BBS's in the area of which I ran two of them. On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:31 AM Daniel Seagraves < dseag...@humancapitaldev.com> wrote: > > On Jan 24, 2020, at 5:26 PM, Ben Cannon wrote: > > > > I

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 1/27/20 3:06 PM, b...@theworld.com wrote: I remember going from 300b to 1200b and thinking wow, this is it, we're done, I cannot read text scrolling on the screen at 1200b. Other than the 75 and 110 baud teletypes that only did text, my first TCP/IP connection was 300b, back when we had to

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Whoa. Gandalf. I worked on one of those once and it was cray-zee. Customer bought one, and I had to get it to interoperate with an Ascend 400. It took a lot of fiddle-farting, but I did eventually get it to work. Fun times. On 1/27/20 8:00 PM, Jamie Bowden via NANOG wrote: That was

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On January 27, 2020 at 09:26 james.v...@gmail.com (james jones) wrote: > Does AOL count? If my first real internet connection was dial up 3600 baud > through compuserv. When I finally upgraded to 56K I thought it was light > speed.  I remember going from 300b to 1200b and thinking wow, this

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On January 27, 2020 at 22:57 ma...@isc.org (Mark Andrews) wrote: > The hardware support was 2B+D but you could definitely just use a single B. > 56k vs 64k depended on where you where is the world and which style of ISDN > the telco offered. FWIW bulk dial-up lines were often brought in

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 1/27/20 2:00 PM, Jamie Bowden via NANOG wrote: > I don't know about the other ILECs out there, but I don't know if Verizon > will even provision a T1 anymore. I know you can still get a PRI (that's how > our phone systems interface with the PSTN), but if we needed a CT1 instead, I > don't

RE: Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

: [External] Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: > akamai yesterday - > what in the world was that > > > > Don't forget B8ZS which did way with the need for SFon copper data T1s > > On 1/27/2020 10:43 AM, Lyle Giese wrote: > > > > 64k vs 56k w

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Don't forget B8ZS which did way with the need for SFon copper data T1s On 1/27/2020 10:43 AM, Lyle Giese wrote: 64k vs 56k was the result of changing T1 framing from SF to ESF.  SF utilized AMI(Alt Mark Inversion) required for copper T1 lines between Central Offices.  SF(Super Frame)

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 1/27/2020 8:29 AM, Daniel Seagraves wrote: On Jan 24, 2020, at 5:26 PM, Ben Cannon wrote: I started what became 6x7 with a 64k ISDN line. And 9600 baud modems… Hayes Smartmodem here, 1200 baud. Local BBS offered PPP service. When I got my first sysadmin job, $work had a T1 and it felt

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

The fudge was required because of the use of copper based T1's. The early implementation required a min of 1's density for those old repeaters to work properly(AMI, Alt Mark Inversion). Conversion to fiber between telco offices allowed them to drop SF and AMI to ESF. Fiber equipment dropped

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

64k vs 56k was the result of changing T1 framing from SF to ESF. SF utilized AMI(Alt Mark Inversion) required for copper T1 lines between Central Offices.  SF(Super Frame) robbed bits for signalling and limited each voice channel to 56k.  Conversion to fiber between TELCO offices allowed the

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

> On Jan 24, 2020, at 5:26 PM, Ben Cannon wrote: > > I started what became 6x7 with a 64k ISDN line. And 9600 baud modems… Hayes Smartmodem here, 1200 baud. Local BBS offered PPP service. When I got my first sysadmin job, $work had a T1 and it felt like more speed than was fair…

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Does AOL count? If my first real internet connection was dial up 3600 baud through compuserv. When I finally upgraded to 56K I thought it was light speed. On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 9:01 AM Bruce H McIntosh wrote: > On 1/27/20 7:59 AM, Bryan Holloway wrote: > > [External Email] > > > > ... and

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 1/27/20 7:59 AM, Bryan Holloway wrote: [External Email] ... and disabling call-waiting ... ;) We had a separate line (paid for by our work) without call-bothering on it for the modem. -- Bruce H. McIntosh Network Engineer II University of

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 1/26/20 6:08 PM, b...@theworld.com wrote: You had ones?! We couldn't afford them, we had to guess from the time delays between zeros. I'm fairly certain there's an RFC-1149 joke in here somewhere. -- Bruce H. McIntosh Network Engineer II

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 12:53, Bryan Holloway wrote: > > I seem to also recall that you couldn't use a 56k modem unless the > far-end was digital. > Exactly so - the connection to the telephone network needed to be as "clean" as possible for the modem to achieve the best rate, which was only

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

... and disabling call-waiting ... ;) On 1/27/20 1:55 PM, John Von Essen wrote: In those early days I remember setting up a download to start before bed so it could run all night, then wake up the morning to see my freshly downloaded 300KB file — assuming the phone line remained stable.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Similar…. In ’93 I had a 2400bps modem and an $40/month ISP dialup account for 10 hours a month - my Mac IIci was zooming! I quickly upgraded to 9600, then 14400, then 56k. I rocked the 56k till about 2003 - mind you all my email was over telnet/ssh/pine and websites in 2003 still worked

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On 1/27/20 1:42 PM, Aled Morris via NANOG wrote: On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 12:13, Rob Pickering > wrote: Wasn't the 56/64k thing a result of CAS (bit robbed) signalling which was a fudge AT did to transport signalling information in-band on T1s by stealing

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 12:13, Rob Pickering wrote: > Wasn't the 56/64k thing a result of CAS (bit robbed) signalling which was > a fudge AT did to transport signalling information in-band on T1s by > stealing the low order bit for OOB signalling (it wasnt actually every low > order bit, but

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Wasn't the 56/64k thing a result of CAS (bit robbed) signalling which was a fudge AT did to transport signalling information in-band on T1s by stealing the low order bit for OOB signalling (it wasnt actually every low order bit, but meant you had to throw away every low order bit as CPE didn't

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

The hardware support was 2B+D but you could definitely just use a single B. 56k vs 64k depended on where you where is the world and which style of ISDN the telco offered. -- Mark Andrews > On 27 Jan 2020, at 22:32, Bryan Holloway wrote: > > I didn't think one could get a single 'B'

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 13:35, Bryan Holloway wrote: > I didn't think one could get a single 'B' channel over ISDN ... but I > could be mistaken. > > In my early ISP days, ISDN was 2 x 64k (full-rate) 'B' channels and a > 16k 'D' channel for signaling. There was much flexibility you could do

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

I didn't think one could get a single 'B' channel over ISDN ... but I could be mistaken. In my early ISP days, ISDN was 2 x 64k (full-rate) 'B' channels and a 16k 'D' channel for signaling. On 1/26/20 5:58 AM, Joly MacFie wrote: IIRC that 64k was in fact 56k with 8k for overhead. I had

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On January 26, 2020 at 15:59 ka...@biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) wrote: > On Sat, 2020-01-25 at 22:29 -0600, Aaron Gould wrote: > > From: Ben Cannon [mailto:b...@6by7.net]  > > I started what became 6x7 with a 64k ISDN line.   And 9600 baud > > modems…    > > Pah! Luxury! > > When *I*

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

kauer> When *I* were a lad we had to touch the wires with our tongues to kauer> tell one from zero, no job for a sissy lemme tell you. Wires? You had wires? We had to cut out our own intestines, braid them into strands and dip them in salt water to make them conductive. Our bosses would feed us

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On Sat, 2020-01-25 at 22:29 -0600, Aaron Gould wrote: > From: Ben Cannon [mailto:b...@6by7.net]  > I started what became 6x7 with a 64k ISDN line.   And 9600 baud > modems…    Pah! Luxury! When *I* were a lad we had to touch the wires with our tongues to tell one from zero, no job for a sissy

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

IIRC that 64k was in fact 56k with 8k for overhead. I had one, and it would kick in a second channel if you pushed it, for a whopping 112k. Metered, came out to about $500/mo. Joly On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 6:26 PM Ben Cannon wrote: > I started what became 6x7 with a 64k ISDN line. And 9600

RE: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

I love the symmetric ~10 gig speed test to put it into perspective for how far we’ve come….also the 3 ms ping result. Ain’t it great -Aaron From: Ben Cannon [mailto:b...@6by7.net] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 5:27 PM To: b...@theworld.com Cc: Aaron Gould; NANOG Operators' Group