to connections off of ONT).
Frank
-Original Message-
From: Scott Helms [mailto:khe...@zcorum.com]
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 3:42 PM
To: Jean-Francois Mezei
Cc: NANOG
Subject: Re: Rollup: Small City Municipal Broadband
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Jean-Francois Mezei
jfmezei_na
- Original Message -
From: Jason Baugher ja...@thebaughers.com
What we've seen is that the RBOC typically has a lot of crap copper in the
ground, in a lot of cases air-core (pre gel-fill) that hasn't held up well.
With the popularity of DSL, they ran out of good pairs to use. As they
Scott;
I apologize. You could very well sincerely not realize you are wrong.
Obviously, erroneous thinking is not the same as making things up.
However, it is not good that bad information is out there and it should be
corrected.First you refer to them as dry copper or dry pair which
has
On 13-02-04 14:57, Fletcher Kittredge wrote:
of the reason you have had difficulty ordering them. The proper term is
Unbundled Network Elements(UNE) copper loops.
The Bell Canada tariff on ADSL acess (5410) uses the following
terminology: (GAS = wholesale DSL service operated by incumbent
Jean-Francois;
The only regulatory regime I am familiar with is the US and the original
poster specifically specified the US regime.
In the US, only CLECs have the right to order UNEs. Many ISPs became
CLECs for that reason. In the states in which we operate, becoming a CLEC
is a minimal
Frank,
I certainly agree that fiber plant is in general easier than copper plant
to maintain. My main concern is that in this case Jay is considering
allowing not only different vendors but different technologies on the same
fiber plant. That, in a small system without a ton of technical
On 13-02-04 15:46, Scott Helms wrote:
I certainly agree that fiber plant is in general easier than copper plant
to maintain. My main concern is that in this case Jay is considering
allowing not only different vendors but different technologies on the same
fiber plant.
If you are strictly
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Fletcher Kittredge fkitt...@gwi.net wrote:
Scott;
I apologize. You could very well sincerely not realize you are wrong.
Obviously, erroneous thinking is not the same as making things up.
Thanks, I think ;)
I looked back and what I had written and I will
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Jean-Francois Mezei
jfmezei_na...@vaxination.ca wrote:
On 13-02-04 15:46, Scott Helms wrote:
I certainly agree that fiber plant is in general easier than copper plant
to maintain. My main concern is that in this case Jay is considering
allowing not only
Frank,
I don't know off hand, but it ought to be easy even though Ethernet uses a
wider channel than most PON set ups. I'll do some asking tomorrow.
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 1:07 AM, Frank Bulk frnk...@iname.com wrote:
Scott:
Is there a vendor that supports RFoG on the same strand as
- Original Message -
From: Jean-Francois Mezei jfmezei_na...@vaxination.ca
On 13-02-02 23:17, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Home run from each prem to an MDF. City employes do all M-A-C patch cable
moves on the MDF, to horizontals into the colo, where the provider's gear
aggregates it from
In a message written on Sun, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:07:34AM -0500, Jean-Francois
Mezei wrote:
When municipality does the buildout, does it just pass homes, or does it
actually connect every home ?
I would argue, in a pure dark muni-network, the muni would run the
fiber into the prem to a patch
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Leo Bicknell bickn...@ufp.org wrote:
In a message written on Sun, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:07:34AM -0500,
Jean-Francois Mezei wrote:
When municipality does the buildout, does it just pass homes, or does it
actually connect every home ?
I would argue, in a pure
On 2013-02-03, at 14:39, Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com wrote:
Dry pairs are impossible to order these days for a reason.
Dry pairs are trivial to order round these parts. Generalisations are always
wrong, no doubt including this one.
Joe (putting the N back in NANOG)
- Original Message -
From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com
Basically when the customer (typically the service provider, but
not always) orders a loop to a customer the muni provider would
OTDR shoot it from the handoff point to the service provider to the
prem. They would be
Joe,
I'm assuming from your domain that you're in Canada where yes dry pairs are
still generally available. I apologize for not making it clear that my
comment was specifically about the US where dry pairs are nearly impossible
to order today and the CLEC market has almost entirely abandoned the
In a message written on Sun, Feb 03, 2013 at 02:39:39PM -0500, Scott Helms
wrote:
Basically when the customer (typically the service provider, but
not always) orders a loop to a customer the muni provider would
OTDR shoot it from the handoff point to the service provider to the
prem.
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com
Basically when the customer (typically the service provider, but
not always) orders a loop to a customer the muni provider would
OTDR shoot it from
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Leo Bicknell bickn...@ufp.org wrote:
In a message written on Sun, Feb 03, 2013 at 02:39:39PM -0500, Scott Helms
wrote:
Basically when the customer (typically the service provider, but
not always) orders a loop to a customer the muni provider would
OTDR
Original Message -
From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com
You're asserting that it is not practical to offer L1 optical
per-sub handoffs to L2/3 ISPs, because
I'm saying you can't build a working business model off of layer 1
connections as your primary offering in almost all cases
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Leo Bicknell bickn...@ufp.org wrote:
In a message written on Sun, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:07:34AM -0500,
Jean-Francois Mezei wrote:
When municipality does the buildout, does it just pass homes, or does it
actually connect every home ?
I would argue, in a pure
And flooding doesn't affect pure glass, does it?
Not directly, so long as the cladding stays intact. The problem with
flooding (for your scenario since your electronics will be centralized) is
mainly that it causes things to move around inside the cable runs and
depending on water flow you
With regards to the layer 1 vs layer 2 arguments:
At the regulatory level, it isn't about what layer is provided, it is
more a question to ensure that a neutral provider of last mile only
sells whoelsale and provides no retail services that compete against
other retailers who buy access to that
- Original Message -
From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com
And flooding doesn't affect pure glass, does it?
Not directly, so long as the cladding stays intact. The problem with
flooding (for your scenario since your electronics will be centralized) is
mainly that it causes things to
- Original Message -
From: Jason Baugher ja...@thebaughers.com
The SP of choice can charge the customer for the demarc extension on
installation, at which point the customer owns the extension just like
they do for DSL, T1, etc...
Except that that means you have to let them into your
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com
And flooding doesn't affect pure glass, does it?
Not directly, so long as the cladding stays intact. The problem with
flooding (for your scenario
I'm pretty sure they do, although I can't point you to one without doing
some checking. I'm assuming you want something to keep them out of the
network side where the splice tray is, but let them access the customer
side?
Around here, the network side isn't so much locked as just secured with a
In this particular post, your making stuff up. There are still
residential focused CLECs and ordering Unbundled Network Elements(UNEs)
is not more difficult than in the past. The rules haven't changed.
What is certainly true is that many CLECs have found that it is more
lucrative to sell to
Fletcher,
Your specific case may vary, but I am most certainly _not_ making stuff
up. In many territories, especially outside of major metro areas, you
cannot order dry pairs. This has been because of a combination of relaxed
rules (if you really want I can dig up the NTCA reports on this) and
What we've seen is that the RBOC typically has a lot of crap copper in the
ground, in a lot of cases air-core (pre gel-fill) that hasn't held up well.
With the popularity of DSL, they ran out of good pairs to use. As they ran
out of pairs, they eventually had to put in remote terminals to handle
...@zcorum.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 2:55 PM
To: Jay Ashworth
Cc: NANOG
Subject: Re: Rollup: Small City Municipal Broadband
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com
Basically when
Why on earth would you do this with PON instead of active Ethernet? What
GPON vendor have you found where their technical staff will tell you this
is a good architecture for their PON offering?
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote:
Ok, here's a rough plan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Out of curiosity, do you have plans for legal battles or anything? There
have been some other places attempting or running muni broadband that
have resulted in crap like the hilariously named AN ACT TO PROTECT JOBS
AND INVESTMENT BY REGULATING LOCAL
- Original Message -
From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com
Why on earth would you do this with PON instead of active Ethernet?
What GPON vendor have you found where their technical staff will tell you
this is a good architecture for their PON offering?
Asked and answered, Scott; have
Original Message -
From: Dylan N dy...@dylannguyen.net
Out of curiosity, do you have plans for legal battles or anything?
There have been some other places attempting or running muni broadband that
have resulted in crap like the hilariously named AN ACT TO PROTECT
JOBS AND
Jay,
I'm spotty on mailing lists since most of my time is spent building these
kinds of networks.
1) Talk to more vendors than just Calix, especially if they're quoting
their Ethernet density on the C7. Also, keep in mind that port density may
or may not be relevant to your situation since
- Original Message -
From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com
I'm spotty on mailing lists since most of my time is spent building
these kinds of networks.
Showoff. :-)
1) Talk to more vendors than just Calix, especially if they're quoting
their Ethernet density on the C7. Also, keep in
- Original Message -
From: Brandon Ross br...@pobox.com
I can't believe I'm going to beat Owen to this point, but considering you
a building a brand new infrastructure, I'd hope you'd support your service
provider's stakeholders if they want to do IPv6. To do so securely,
you'll want
C7 is old school. E7/E20 is far far far far far far different.
On Feb 2, 2013 2:55 PM, Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com wrote:
Jay,
I'm spotty on mailing lists since most of my time is spent building these
kinds of networks.
1) Talk to more vendors than just Calix, especially if they're
- Original Message -
From: Jean-Francois Mezei jfmezei_na...@vaxination.ca
Something to consider about dark fibre L1 service: If city lets Service
Providers perform installations (string from telephone pole to homes
etc), you need to worry about damages they can cause. And in cases
On 13-02-02 23:17, Jay Ashworth wrote:
Home run from each prem to an MDF. City employes do all M-A-C patch cable
moves on the MDF, to horizontals into the colo, where the provider's gear
aggregates it from L1 to whatever.
No aerial plant at all, no multple provider runs to the prems.
Not
Scott:
Is there a vendor that supports RFoG on the same strand as ActiveE?
Frank
-Original Message-
From: Scott Helms [mailto:khe...@zcorum.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:30 PM
To: NANOG
Subject: Fwd: Rollup: Small City Municipal Broadband
But it doesn't matter either way,
Helms' khe...@zcorum.com,NANOG nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: Rollup: Small City Municipal Broadband
Scott:
Is there a vendor that supports RFoG on the same strand as ActiveE?
Frank
-Original Message-
From: Scott Helms [mailto:khe...@zcorum.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:30 PM
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