On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 08:01:59PM +1300, Mark Foster wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008, Martin Hannigan wrote:
On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Frank Bulk - iName.com
frnk...@iname.comwrote:
I don't think there would be a concern about off-shore support if we
couldn't tell it was off-shore.
Assuming that what you're getting from Verizon is copper and not FIOS,
there should be a number of small to medium-sized ISPs that will provide you
with Layer 3 Internet Service using that copper.
It will cost you a few dollars a month more, but not a lot more,
and you'll not only have more chance
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain
at my DSL provider Verizon California.
I can reliably ping the first hop from my home to
the CO with a 25ms delay. But if I ping any other
location, packets get dropped or significantly
delayed. To me, this sounds like
Skywing skyw...@valhallalegends.com writes:
Always have to waste a minute for it to decide that it's going to
punt to a real person. It would be nice if there was a way to
bypass it.
A lot (but not all) of them are implemented in such a way that they
will yield encouraging results if you
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:53:18 +
Martin List-Petersen mar...@airwire.ie wrote:
The problem is, and this was stated by the original poster, that the
lads off-shore he deals with have no clue and simply stick to the
script. No intention of looking what the real problem is. And that
problem
Matthew Black wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:53:18 +
Martin List-Petersen mar...@airwire.ie wrote:
The problem is, and this was stated by the original poster, that the
lads off-shore he deals with have no clue and simply stick to the
script. No intention of looking what the real problem
Matthew Black wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:53:18 +
Martin List-Petersen mar...@airwire.ie wrote:
The problem is, and this was stated by the original poster, that the
lads off-shore he deals with have no clue and simply stick to the
script. No intention of looking what the real problem
: Martin List-Petersen [mailto:mar...@airwire.ie]
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:59 PM
To: Matthew Black
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
Matthew Black wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:53:18 +
Martin List-Petersen mar...@airwire.ie wrote
-Petersen [mailto:mar...@airwire.ie]
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:59 PM
To: Matthew Black
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
Matthew Black wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:53:18 +
Martin List-Petersen mar...@airwire.ie wrote:
The problem
david raistrick wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008, JF Mezei wrote:
The problem with oursourced first level support is that they are totally
disconnected from real time operations and wouldn't be aware of problems
that network engineers are currently working on.
Not always true. Our outsourced
Skywing wrote:
I find those speech recognition menus quite annoying. American
Airlines has one that's just not good enough over a lower bitrate
cell voice link in a crowded situation when you're trying to
determine what's the deal with cancelled flights or whatnot along
with everyone else in
Skywing wrote:
I find those speech recognition menus quite annoying. American Airlines has
one that's just not good enough over a lower bitrate cell voice link in a
crowded situation when you're trying to determine what's the deal with
cancelled flights or whatnot along with everyone else in
On 27 Dec 2008, at 05:59, JF Mezei wrote:
The problem with oursourced first level support is that they are
totally disconnected from real time operations and wouldn't be aware
of problems that network engineers are currently working on.
That's a problem with a lot of internal first line
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:10:13 -0600 (CST)
Joe Greco jgr...@ns.sol.net wrote:
I did ask, and all the local people are, in fact, local. It's a
matter of training and technical knowledge. None of them was really
putting together the fact that the modem was sketchy for the service
class we had.
...@cs.columbia.edu]
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 3:35 PM
To: Joe Greco
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:10:13 -0600 (CST)
Joe Greco jgr...@ns.sol.net wrote:
I did ask, and all the local people are, in fact, local. It's a
matter
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800
Etaoin Shrdlu shr...@deaddrop.org wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800
Tomas L. Byrnes t...@byrneit.net wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are
actually LOCAL.
In
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain
at my DSL provider Verizon California.
I can reliably ping the first hop from my home to
the CO with a 25ms delay. But if I ping any other
location, packets get dropped or significantly
delayed. To me, this sounds like
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 2:01 AM, Mark Foster blak...@blakjak.net wrote:
Aside from the typical Degree or Diploma that tertiary outfits offer,
there's not a lot of good ways to 'break in' to the Network and Systems
Operations communities other than good ol experience,
I think I've touched at least 15+ countries with Cisco HTTPS, and minus a
few language issues, they're pretty decent.
On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Jay Hennigan j...@west.net wrote:
Martin Hannigan wrote:
Hi Jay:
Is there really anything wrong with sending first-level technical support
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Todd Vierling t...@pobox.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 2:01 AM, Mark Foster blak...@blakjak.net wrote:
All of the above is solely my opinion, and definitely represents an
experience-diluted version of my personal ideals. While I generally
agree from
Martin Hannigan wrote:
I'm not sure if I support off shoring or not as
related to quality, but there is certainly a a business case to to be made
supporting it as this thread ending up pointing out. There are trade offs
which matter more to some than others.
I'm quite fascinated by some of
I used to work for DSL Extreme for about just over 3 years. They use
local loops and connect via DS3's and OC3's to get into the partners
networks. In area's outside of california they may resell, but at
least in norcal and socal they run their own network.
Martin Hannigan wrote:
Hi Jay:
Is there really anything wrong with sending first-level technical
support offshore?
Macs are macs, Windows is windows and mail is mail whether you're in
Mumbai or Memphis. As long as the language skills are good and the
people are well trained,
Joe Greco wrote:
Sure. Blaming off-shore tech support is pretty easy stuff, but the
reality is that the trouble is more along the line of appropriate
training.
But, the reason that US-based $TELCO and $CABLECO use off-shore tech
support is that they don't want to pay for the training and
Joe Greco wrote:
Sure. Blaming off-shore tech support is pretty easy stuff, but the
reality is that the trouble is more along the line of appropriate
training.
But, the reason that US-based $TELCO and $CABLECO use off-shore tech
support is that they don't want to pay for the training
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008, JF Mezei wrote:
The problem with oursourced first level support is that they are totally
disconnected from real time operations and wouldn't be aware of problems
that network engineers are currently working on.
Not always true. Our outsourced support in India were also
, chaim.rie...@gmail.com wrote:
Actually the resell sbc primarily.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-Original Message-
From: Matthew Black bl...@csulb.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:31:42
To: Etaoin Shrdlushr...@deaddrop.org; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800
Etaoin Shrdlu shr...@deaddrop.org wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800
Tomas L. Byrnes t...@byrneit.net wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are
actually LOCAL.
In Verizon
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Matthew Black bl...@csulb.edu wrote:
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser,
there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service.
So choose business. In the world of mass-market ISPs,
residential means end-user without clue who cares only about price,
not
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Jay Hennigan j...@west.net wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain
at my DSL provider Verizon California.
Switch to a local ISP with local tech support.
Hi Jay:
Is there really anything wrong with sending
On Thu Dec 25, 2008 at 04:54:37PM -0500, Martin Hannigan wrote:
As long as the language skills are good [...]
Because, generally, this is not the case.
Oh, and when there's 3 fibre cuts between you and India, and your voice gets
shrunk to a 9kbps VoIP channel, it's doubly bad.
Simon
Martin Hannigan wrote:
Hi Jay:
Is there really anything wrong with sending first-level technical
support offshore?
Macs are macs, Windows is windows and mail is mail whether you're in
Mumbai or Memphis. As long as the language skills are good and the
people are well trained, it should be
[mailto:mar...@theicelandguy.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 3:55 PM
To: Jay Hennigan
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Jay Hennigan j...@west.net wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching
On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Frank Bulk - iName.com
frnk...@iname.comwrote:
I don't think there would be a concern about off-shore support if we
couldn't tell it was off-shore.
You can't tell most of the time.
The point that is relevant operationally is that off shoring can be a solid
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008, Martin Hannigan wrote:
On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Frank Bulk - iName.com
frnk...@iname.comwrote:
I don't think there would be a concern about off-shore support if we
couldn't tell it was off-shore.
You can't tell most of the time.
The point that is relevant
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain
at my DSL provider Verizon California.
Switch to a local ISP with local tech support.
--
Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - j...@impulse.net
Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/
Your local
In socal switch to dslextreme
--Original Message--
From: Jay Hennigan
To: Matthew Black
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
Sent: Dec 24, 2008 09:43
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain
at my DSL provider
On 08.12.24 12:43, Jay Hennigan wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain
at my DSL provider Verizon California.
Switch to a local ISP with local tech support.
bingo.
i have multiple offices. in each case, i buy layers one and two from
the copper/fiber
[mailto:chaim.rie...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 9:47 AM
To: Jay Hennigan; Matthew Black
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
In socal switch to dslextreme
--Original Message--
From: Jay Hennigan
To: Matthew Black
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Randy Bush wrote:
On 08.12.24 12:43, Jay Hennigan wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain
at my DSL provider Verizon California.
Switch to a local ISP with local tech support.
bingo.
Uh, ditto? Having left SoCal a couple of years ago, my data is
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800
Tomas L. Byrnes t...@byrneit.net wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are
actually LOCAL.
Their TS staff are responsive and courteous. I only wish their network
were more reliable. (They're better than SBC in my experience,
Much easier said than done. Verizon has a small territory within
Qwest's 14 state region -- it's in Grants Pass, Oregon.
No local ISP partners with Verizon because it's hideously expensive and
obviously not enough of a demand or even a big enough service area for
an ISP to partner with VZ.
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800
Tomas L. Byrnes t...@byrneit.net wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are
actually LOCAL.
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have
CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox.
Our
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800
Etaoin Shrdlu shr...@deaddrop.org wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800
Tomas L. Byrnes t...@byrneit.net wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are
actually LOCAL.
In Verizon land, residential
-Original Message-
From: Matthew Black [mailto:bl...@csulb.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:32 AM
To: Etaoin Shrdlu; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800
Etaoin Shrdlu shr...@deaddrop.org
Actually the resell sbc primarily.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-Original Message-
From: Matthew Black bl...@csulb.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:31:42
To: Etaoin Shrdlushr...@deaddrop.org; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
On Wed, 24
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 09:43:20AM -0800, Jay Hennigan wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain
at my DSL provider Verizon California.
Switch to a local ISP with local tech support.
Actually, and I know this kind of experience is really subjective, but
when your ISP off-shores tech support
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800
Tomas L. Byrnes t...@byrneit.net wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are
actually LOCAL.
Their TS staff are responsive and courteous. I only wish their network
were more reliable
@nanog.org nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
Sounds like a business opportunity to me.
Given any thought to Sprint EV-DO?
-Original Message-
From: Matthew Black [mailto:bl...@csulb.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:02 AM
To: Tomas L. Byrnes
Tomas L. Byrnes wrote:
Sounds like a business opportunity to me.
Given any thought to Sprint EV-DO?
You can not seriously consider a 3G technology as broadband replacement.
It is midband at best, especially because there is no control on contention.
Kind regards,
Martin List-Petersen
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
Randy Bush wrote:
On 08.12.24 12:43, Jay Hennigan wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain
at my DSL provider Verizon California.
Switch to a local ISP with local tech support.
bingo.
Uh, ditto? Having left SoCal a couple of
Roy wrote:
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
...However, I happily used XO+Covad in three separate locations
(in SoCal). DSLExtreme also has (or at least had) a good reputation.
Verizon sucks. In fact, since you are in the Long Beach area, they
suck even more than they do other places. Vote with your
...@airwire.ie]
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:06 AM
To: Tomas L. Byrnes
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
Tomas L. Byrnes wrote:
Sounds like a business opportunity to me.
Given any thought to Sprint EV-DO?
You can not seriously consider a 3G
Matthew Black wrote:
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser,
there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service.
http://covad.com/web/index.html
DSLextreme is charging a higher price than Verizon
and I suspect they are simply reselling Verizon's
DSL rather than connecting my copper to
Uh, ditto? Having left SoCal a couple of years ago, my data is a bit
stale. However, I happily used XO+Covad in three separate locations
(in SoCal). DSLExtreme also has (or at least had) a good reputation.
Verizon sucks. In fact, since you are in the Long Beach area, they
suck even more than
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