On Sun, 2013-12-29 at 03:31 +0100, Baldur Norddahl wrote:
(...)
The users each have a unique VLAN (Q-in-Q). The question is, what do I put
on those VLANs, if I do not want to put a full IPv4 subnet on each?
My own answer to that is to have the users share a larger subnet, for
example I
for i in /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/*/arp_announce; do echo 2 $i;done
+1 setting arp_announce in Linux is essential if being used as a router
with more than one subnet.
I would also recommend setting arp_ignore. For Linux-based routers, I've
found the following settings to be optimal:
echo 1
In article
xs4all.calftrnnyr4v_op0rg4mgfn+8zx6474p80upx3tm35y8kyyz...@mail.gmail.com you
write:
It seems to be a pretty hot button issue, but I feel that modern hardware
is more than capable of pushing packets. The old wisdom of only hardware
can do it efficiently is starting to prove untrue.
Once upon a time, Shawn Wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com said:
I was hoping someone could give technical insight into why this is good or
not and not just buy a box branded as a router because I said so or your
business will fail. I'm all for hearing about the business theory of running
an ISP
Chris Adams c...@cmadams.net wrote:
Once upon a time, Shawn Wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com said:
I was hoping someone could give technical insight into why this is
good or not and not just buy a box branded as a router because I said
so or your business will fail. I'm all for hearing about the
Pretty much what everyone else said. I'm a huge linux person, almost
everything I use is linux, run full Myth set up etc, but I wouldn't use it
for a high PPS situation like this. It's just asking for suffering later,
at the worst possible times.
-Blake
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Shawn
Pretty much what everyone else said. I'm a huge linux person, almost
everything I use is linux, run full Myth set up etc, but I wouldn't
use it for a high PPS situation like this. It's just asking for
suffering later, at the worst possible times.
to paraphrase MO from many years ago (as i do
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 08:47:25PM -0500, Jon Sands wrote:
On 12/27/2013 8:18 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote:
Brocade NetIron CER 2024F-4X goes for
about $21k
As one last aside, if you're paying 21k, you're paying a little more
than twice too much. Call Brocade and get yourself a real quote.
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 08:53:53AM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
There is a significant value in just plug it in and it works, and if
you don't figure your time investment (both up-front and on-going) into
the cost, you are greatly fooling yourself.
What ISP-grade router are you using that is
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 8:09 AM, sten rulz stenr...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Baldur,
Your design regarding proxy arp for every VLAN might hit some issues. If
you look at the nanog history you will find people having issues with proxy
arp for large number of VLANs, what is your requirement for
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 1:33 AM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 11:16:53 -0800, Seth Mattinen said:
On 12/26/13, 9:24, Andrew D Kirch wrote:
If he can afford a 10G link... he should be buying real gear... I mean,
look, I've got plenty of infrastructure horror stories,
In talking about RAMBOOT I also realized the instructions are out of date
on the website.
The ramboot boot target script was updated since I created the initial
page to generate the correct fstab, and enable the root account, set a
hostname, etc. so you can actually use the OS until you create a
On the topic of building a software router for an ISP, has anyone tried it
using OpenFlow? The idea is to have a Linux server run BGP and a hardware
switch to move the packets. The switch would be programmed by the Linux
server using the OpenFlow protocol.
I am looking at the HP 5400 zl switches
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Baldur Norddahl
baldur.nordd...@gmail.comwrote:
On the topic of building a software router for an ISP, has anyone tried it
using OpenFlow? The idea is to have a Linux server run BGP and a hardware
switch to move the packets. The switch would be programmed by
You could look into Noviflow!
F.
Sent from my mobile device. Apologies for any typo.
On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:05, Baldur Norddahl baldur.nordd...@gmail.com wrote:
On the topic of building a software router for an ISP, has anyone tried it
using OpenFlow? The idea is to have a Linux server run
I need a solution for everything except the last-mile customers. The
customers are connected to a Zhone PON switch. From there they will arrive
at our core switch as Q-in-Q vlans, one vlan per customer. I need a router
that will do two full routing tables for our uplinks, a number of partial
On Dec 27, 2013 10:08 AM, Baldur Norddahl baldur.nordd...@gmail.com
wrote:
We are an upstart and just buying the fancy Juniper switch times two
would burn half of my seed capital.
Then you didn't ask for nearly enough capital.
On gio, 2013-12-26 at 11:33 -0500, Nick Cameo wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We are looking to put together a 2u server with a few PCIe 3 x8
(recommendations appreciated). The router will take a voip transcoding
line card, and will act as an edge router for a telecom company.
For things like BGP
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013, Andrew D Kirch wrote:
If he can afford a 10G link... he should be buying real gear... I mean,
look, I've got plenty of infrastructure horror stories, but lets not cobble
together our own 10gbit solutions, please? At least get one of the new
microtik CCR's with a 10gig
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Jon Sands fohdee...@gmail.com wrote:
On Dec 27, 2013 10:08 AM, Baldur Norddahl baldur.nordd...@gmail.com
wrote:
We are an upstart and just buying the fancy Juniper switch times two
would burn half of my seed capital.
Then you didn't ask for nearly enough
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Baldur Norddahl baldur.nordd...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Jon Sands fohdee...@gmail.com wrote:
On Dec 27, 2013 10:08 AM, Baldur Norddahl baldur.nordd...@gmail.com
wrote:
We are an upstart and just buying the fancy Juniper
Well said Baldur
For those who are movie buffs.. here is the snippet that visually summaries..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ
As to the knee jerk reaction to a server doing routing such folks tend to
forget that
Routers are purpose built serversand most of the
27, 2013 3:23:11 PM
Subject: Re: The Making of a Router
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Baldur Norddahl baldur.nordd...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Jon Sands fohdee...@gmail.com wrote:
On Dec 27, 2013 10:08 AM, Baldur Norddahl baldur.nordd...@gmail.com
wrote
On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:37 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote:
e.g. If someone says I need a 10g interface, why is it automatically assumed
that the router is going to be running @ Full Line Rate ?
Those of us with experience know that when “something bad(tm)” happens, those
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Baldur Norddahl wrote:
Everybody have critical services running on servers. DHCP, DNS, Radius and
so on are all on servers and you will be down if these services are down.
What is with the knee jerk reaction for suggesting that the BGP daemon
could also be run on a server?
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:18:47AM -0500, Jon Sands wrote:
On Dec 27, 2013 10:08 AM, Baldur Norddahl baldur.nordd...@gmail.com
wrote:
We are an upstart and just buying the fancy Juniper switch times two
would burn half of my seed capital.
Then you didn't ask for nearly enough capital.
...@puck.nether.net
To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net
Cc: Eugeniu Patrascu eu...@imacandi.net, North American Network
Operators' Group nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:04:12 PM
Subject: Re: The Making of a Router
On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:37 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
Most 'DYI' solutions, make the non-techy bean counters very nervous,
and seeing a major 'name brand' label for some odd reason makes them
real comfortable, ir-respective of the capabilities or function of
either solution.
For a lot of organizations,
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Justin M. Streiner strei...@cluebyfour.org
wrote:
If you want to use servers as routers, that's your choice. I think what
most people in the thread have been saying is not to use one server (or
even a pair of servers) for everything. It's one thing if server
On 12/27/2013 4:23 PM, Matt Palmer wrote:
There *is* a world outside of Silly Valley, you know... a world where
money doesn't flow like a mighty cascade from the benevolent wallets
of vulture capitalists, into the waiting arms of every crackpot with
an elevator pitch. - Matt
Yes, and in
It seems to be a pretty hot button issue, but I feel that modern hardware
is more than capable of pushing packets. The old wisdom of only hardware
can do it efficiently is starting to prove untrue. 10G might still be a
challenge (I haven't tested), but 1G is not even close to being an issue.
On 28 Dec 2013, at 00:13 , Ray Soucy r...@maine.edu wrote:
It seems to be a pretty hot button issue, but I feel that modern hardware
is more than capable of pushing packets. The old wisdom of only hardware
can do it efficiently is starting to prove untrue. 10G might still be a
challenge (I
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Jon Sands fohdee...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, and in that world, one should probably not start up a FTTH ISP when
one has not even budgeted for a router, among a thousand other things. And
if you must, you should probably figure out your cost breakdown beforehand,
On 12/27/2013 8:18 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote:
Brocade NetIron CER 2024F-4X goes for
about $21k
As one last aside, if you're paying 21k, you're paying a little more
than twice too much. Call Brocade and get yourself a real quote. I think
peoples main point here is that any handful of thousand
On a side note, Q-in-Q support has been added to the recent 3.10 Linux
kernel, configured using the ip command. It will be popping up in
distributions soon [tm]. Another interesting addition is IPv6 NAT
(transparent redirect, prefix translation, etc).
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Baldur
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Baldur Norddahl wrote:
Another told Nick Cameo that if he can afford a 10G link, he can afford
Juniper. You could not be more wrong. The 10G uplink goes for $0 in initial
fee and less than $4k / month with unlimited traffic. The Juniper gear is
$100k up front for two
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 3:14 AM, Jon Lewis jle...@lewis.org wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Baldur Norddahl wrote:
Another told Nick Cameo that if he can afford a 10G link, he can afford
Juniper. You could not be more wrong. The 10G uplink goes for $0 in
initial
fee and less than $4k / month
Interested on where you are buying transit at $1750/mo for full 10G ports
($0.175/meg)?
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Baldur Norddahl
baldur.nordd...@gmail.comwrote:
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Jon Sands fohdee...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, and in that world, one should probably not
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 07:23:36 -0500 (EST), Justin M. Streiner
strei...@cluebyfour.org said:
You end up combining some of the downsides of a hardware-based
router with some of the downsides of a server (new attack
vectors, another device that needs to be backed up, patched, and
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 3:50 AM, Brian Loveland br...@aereo.com wrote:
Interested on where you are buying transit at $1750/mo for full 10G ports
($0.175/meg)?
I did not that claim that. I said two times $21k divided by 12 = $3500 per
month. Try he.net.
Regards,
Baldur
clearly you have a deep understanding of what you are doing, the market,
what costs and capabilities are, and where to get what you need. now
please remind me of what it was you were asking.
randy
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 4:10 AM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote:
clearly you have a deep understanding of what you are doing, the market,
what costs and capabilities are, and where to get what you need. now
please remind me of what it was you were asking.
randy
I asked if anyone here has
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:37:52 +, Faisal Imtiaz said:
e.g. If someone says I need a 10g interface, why is it automatically assumed
that the router is going to be running @ Full Line Rate ?
It may not be full line rate - but it's a pretty sure bet that you plan
to run it at a fairly high
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 02:18:55 +0100, Baldur Norddahl said:
I was saying $100k for two Juniper routers total.
Right. And the point that others are trying to make clear is that if
that $100K is half your capitalization, you have $200K - and that's nowhere
near enought to cover all the stuff
Right. And the point that others are trying to make clear is that if
that $100K is half your capitalization, you have $200K - and that's
nowhere near enought to cover all the stuff you're going to hit
starting an ISP. (Hint - what's your projected burn rate for the
first two months of
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:06:26 -0500, Randy Bush said:
not to worry. growth is not going to be an issue doing openflow due to
today's tcam limits.
I said burn rate, not growth rate, Randy.. .:)
pgppkYVsYy42z.pgp
Description: PGP signature
I propose cage fighting at the next NANOG summit.
Sent from my Mobile Device.
Original message
From: Randy Bush ra...@psg.com
Date: 12/27/2013 7:07 PM (GMT-09:00)
To: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu
Cc: North American Network Operators' Group nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: The Making
NANOG summit.
Sent from my Mobile Device.
Original message
From: Randy Bush ra...@psg.com
Date: 12/27/2013 7:07 PM (GMT-09:00)
To: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu
Cc: North American Network Operators' Group nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: The Making of a Router
Right. And the point
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013, William Waites wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 07:23:36 -0500 (EST), Justin M. Streiner
strei...@cluebyfour.org said:
You end up combining some of the downsides of a hardware-based
router with some of the downsides of a server (new attack
vectors, another device
Warren Bailey
viahttp://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=1311182ctx=mail
nanog.org :
I propose cage fighting at the next NANOG summit.
Reminds me of some of the BOFs in 2000ish.
Anyway, Ray's TL;DR I think the backlash against anything but big iron
routing is becoming an old
NANOG summit.
Sent from my Mobile Device.
Original message
From: Randy Bush ra...@psg.com
Date: 12/27/2013 7:07 PM (GMT-09:00)
To: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu
Cc: North American Network Operators' Group nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: The Making of a Router
Right. And the point
@nanog.org
Subject: Re: The Making of a Router
Message-ID: pine.lnx.4.64.1312272133090.22...@whammy.cluebyfour.org
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013, William Waites wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 07:23:36 -0500 (EST), Justin M. Streiner
strei...@cluebyfour.org said
Subject: Re: The Making of a Router
Message-ID:
capkb-7c2+pebvp+wwyx0s3dlwqmy_hdpbzgqipvq_sfj_3u...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Jon Sands fohdee...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, and in that world, one should probably not start up
Hello Everyone,
We are looking to put together a 2u server with a few PCIe 3 x8
(recommendations appreciated). The router will take a voip transcoding
line card, and will act as an edge router for a telecom company.
For things like BGP (Quagga, Zebra, all that lovely stuff!!!), static
routes,
, availability, and ability to
create redundancy much more practical.
Regards
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet Telecom
- Original Message -
From: Nick Cameo sym...@gmail.com
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 11:33:13 AM
Subject: The Making of a Router
Hello Everyone
If you're trying to do this cheaply, I'd recommend an appropriate sized
Mikrotik router, and perhaps something running digium's transcoding
hardware/Asterisk, or some Adtran hardware.
Don't put all this in one box.
Andrew
On 12/26/2013 11:33 AM, Nick Cameo wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We are
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet Telecom
- Original Message -
From: Nick Cameo sym...@gmail.com
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 11:33:13 AM
Subject: The Making of a Router
Hello Everyone,
We are looking to put together a 2u server with a few PCIe 3 x8
: Nick Cameo sym...@gmail.com
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 11:33:13 AM
Subject: The Making of a Router
Hello Everyone,
We are looking to put together a 2u server with a few PCIe 3 x8
(recommendations appreciated). The router will take a voip transcoding
line card
Have to agree on the below. I've seen too many devices be so integrated they do
no task well, and can't be rebooted to troubleshoot due to everyone using them.
Jared Mauch
On Dec 26, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Andrew D Kirch trel...@trelane.net wrote:
Don't put all this in one box.
if you want build by yourself I will suggest gentoo and/or freebsd with
bird (http://bird.network.cz/) for routing stuff (maybe with 10G nics).
Don't put all this in one box.
+1
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Nick Cameo sym...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We are looking to put
Mobile Device.
Original message
From: Eric Clark cabe...@gmail.com
Date: 12/26/2013 8:00 AM (GMT-09:00)
To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: The Making of a Router
I also wonder about re-inventing the wheel. The router part is easy, you
On 12/26/2013 12:05 PM, Alessandro Ratti wrote:
(maybe with 10G nics).
If he can afford a 10G link... he should be buying real gear... I mean,
look, I've got plenty of infrastructure horror stories, but lets not
cobble together our own 10gbit solutions, please? At least get one of
the
Totally agree that a routing box should be standalone for tons of reasons. Even
separating network routing and call routing.
It used to be that BSD's network stack was much better than Linux's under load.
I'm not sure if this is still the case - I've never been put in the situation
where the
I've recently pushed a large BSD box to a load of over 300, for more then
an hour, while under test, some things slowed a little, but she kept on
working!
-jim
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Shawn Wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com wrote:
Totally agree that a routing box should be standalone for
You can build using commodity hardware and get pretty good results.
I've had really good luck with Supermicro whitebox hardware, and
Intel-based network cards. The Hot Lava Systems cards have a nice
selection for a decent price if you're looking for SFP and SFP+ cards that
use Intel chipsets.
For router with Freebsd+BIRD/Quagga, I suggest BSDRP.http://bsdrp.net
2013/12/26 Ray Soucy r...@maine.edu
You can build using commodity hardware and get pretty good results.
I've had really good luck with Supermicro whitebox hardware, and
Intel-based network cards. The Hot Lava Systems
On 12/26/13, 9:24, Andrew D Kirch wrote:
If he can afford a 10G link... he should be buying real gear... I mean,
look, I've got plenty of infrastructure horror stories, but lets not
cobble together our own 10gbit solutions, please? At least get one of
the new microtik CCR's with a 10gig sfp+?
On 12/26/13, 8:46, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
I am a believer of not having to re-invent the wheel...
Having said that.. have you looked at 'purpose built appliances' e.g.
http://www.lannerinc.com/
http://us.axiomtek.com/
If you are looking for a full router
Consider such as these...
@nanog.org
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 2:18:14 PM
Subject: Re: The Making of a Router
On 12/26/13, 8:46, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
I am a believer of not having to re-invent the wheel...
Having said that.. have you looked at 'purpose built appliances' e.g.
http://www.lannerinc.com
On 12/26/13, 11:28, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
Ahh.. so you are the one who bought those two from Ebay !
I was watching, but got to them rather late.
If you are the one who got them.. you got a great deal.
These have Mikrotik ROS license with them, you can do BGP/ OSPF etc. with them
If you want to
Have you tried labbing BSD vs Linux to see which you like better? I'd
probably do that before throwing it in to production.
--
Great advice Thomas! I will be creating a BSD virtual machine to get a
feel however, with linux I can think broad scale and forcast better.
With BSD, I am concerned
On 12/26/13, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote:
I am a believer of not having to re-invent the wheel...
Having said that.. have you looked at 'purpose built appliances' e.g.
http://www.lannerinc.com/
http://us.axiomtek.com/
If you are looking for a full router
Consider
On 12/26/13, Alessandro Ratti lor...@gmail.com wrote:
if you want build by yourself I will suggest gentoo and/or freebsd with
bird (http://bird.network.cz/) for routing stuff (maybe with 10G nics).
Hello Alessandro,
Any benchmarks of freebsd vs openbsd vs present day linux kern?
On 12/26/13 11:33 AM, Nick Cameo sym...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We are looking to put together a 2u server with a few PCIe 3 x8
(recommendations appreciated). The router will take a voip transcoding
line card, and will act as an edge router for a telecom company.
For things like BGP
Inline response exist,
On 12/26/13, Ray Soucy r...@maine.edu wrote:
You can build using commodity hardware and get pretty good results.
I've had really good luck with Supermicro whitebox hardware, and
Intel-based network cards. The Hot Lava Systems cards have a nice
selection for a decent
One of the biggest advantages is the low cost of hardware allows you to
maintain spare systems, reducing the time to service restoration in the
event of failure. Dependability-wise, I feel that whitebox Linux systems
are pretty much at Cisco levels these days, especially if running
, but if someone gives you a how-to but you don't like
it (since making a router and a desktop environment are totally the same
thing), you are welcome to come up with your own based on what you like
instead of telling them to give you new instructions to suit your
preferences.
~Seth
Oh my bad. I did not mean it like that at all! I am more that capable
of putting it
together using gentoo instead of debian (a little pedagogy goes a long way). And
if he would like, he can post the ISO on his webstie alongside the
different distro.
This is what I was leaning too...
Please don't
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 05:21:11PM +, Warren Bailey wrote:
Not to mention the fact that this router will require support. The build
before buy people are silly. Let the smart router guys do their thing and
use their box accordingly. When it breaks call to inform them it broke
and they
Unless they deem that it's outside of scope. Or they can't get anyone to
you inside of SLA[1]. Or they send someone incompetent. Or it's a problem
that's never happened before.
Amen!
*Everything* is a nightmare to support. A DIY project just means that
you're betting you're smarter than
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 11:33:13 -0500, Nick Cameo said:
Hello Everyone,
We are looking to put together a 2u server with a few PCIe 3 x8
(recommendations appreciated). The router will take a voip transcoding
line card, and will act as an edge router for a telecom company.
Two things you want to
- Original Message -
From: Matt Palmer mpal...@hezmatt.org
I've got plenty of horror stories of vendor support. Perhaps we can get
together some day and have a story-off. grin
Just subject-tag it so we can archive it, ok guys?
Cheers,
-- jr 'whacky weekend' a
--
Jay R. Ashworth
Le 26 déc. 2013 22:02, Nick Cameo sym...@gmail.com a écrit :
Any benchmarks of freebsd vs openbsd vs present day linux kern?
Hi,
Here are my own benchs using smallest packet size (sorry no Linux):
http://dev.bsdrp.net/benchs/BSD.network.performance.TenGig.png
My conclusion: building a
Chipsets and drivers matter a lot in the 1G+ range.
I've had pretty good luck with the Intel stuff because they offload a lot
in hardware and make open drivers available to the community.
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Olivier Cochard-Labbé
oliv...@cochard.mewrote:
Le 26 déc. 2013 22:02,
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 11:16:53 -0800, Seth Mattinen said:
On 12/26/13, 9:24, Andrew D Kirch wrote:
If he can afford a 10G link... he should be buying real gear... I mean,
look, I've got plenty of infrastructure horror stories, but lets not
cobble together our own 10gbit solutions, please?
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